Swing Your Sword! A Marth guide (In progress)

In lieu of Ulevo guide being taken down again I thought I'd make one. It will just be the basic stuff nothing to special however, I think one is still needed for newer players. I'll try to make this the best I can any comments input corrections or criticism I'm open to.



Table of Contents

Why main marth?
Pros and Cons
Move set
Tips Tricks and everything in between

Why main Marth? ​

For starters purple marth is teh sex. Seriously, though Marth is a good character to main because he has good match ups across the board. Even his bad match up are skill dependent. He has great tools to achieve success. Everything you could want from a character he has and then some. He has a steep learning curve however once you swing your sword you wont want to put it down.


Pros

• Range
• Speed
• Height
• Tippers
• Dancing Blades
• Wide range of Kill moves
• Has good air speed
• Good air game
• Good OoS options
• Fast walk speed
• All of his attacks have disjointed hitboxes to them.
• Can spike
• Has the best counter in the game.
• Good grab range
• Has a CG on a few characters including ALL space animals
• Good grab release options
• Has a lot of favorable match-ups
• ^B has invincibility frames
• Good approach options

Cons

• Light
• Laggy smash attacks
• no true combos
• Lack of horizontal movement on recovery
• No projectile
• Dash attack isn't good
• Weak against opponents who are below him
• Doesn't have good ledge options
• Has weak throws (damage wise)
• Recovery is easily edge hogged
• Jab is average at best
• Does poorly against characters who are in his face.
• Spike is unreliable as it's hard to land and you must sweetspot the attack for it to work.

Jab first strike hits on frame 4
Jab second strike hits on frame 21

Tipped 6%
Untipped 4&

Marth's jabs are alright I don't use them much but they can be used to push your opponent back into tip range. Jab can also swat some projectiles.


Forward Tilt
hits on frames 7-11
Tipped: 12%
Untipped: 9%

A good move to reset spacing and have your opponent back off of you. Rather limited I wouldn't use when your opponent is right on top of you just make sure you space accordingly when using this move. It also can shut down some people who lacks range approaches.

Down Tilt
hits on frames 7-13

Tipped: 10%
Untipped: 9%

Great shield pressuring tool. Will normally lead into another dtilt.. Good spacing tool don't neglect this move it's a huge part of Marths game.

Up Tilt
hits on frames 6-13

Tipped: 12%
Untipped: 9%

Marth swings his sword almost all around hit depending at what point they are hit they will be sent at a weird angle. This move is good to start juggles with or used for killing. It kills at around 120%. One of marths many kill options.


Forward smash

Hits on frame 10
Tipped: 19%
Untipped: 14%

Ah the good old Marth fsmash. Everyone when they first pick up marth flings this thing around like it will end all. It sexy because it can kill at early percentages if you get a tipper fsmash. However, the reality is that this move is obvious has a lot of cool down and will lead to off unnecessary punishments for newer Marths. I would use with caution and not to often unless you know two things for certain one you won't be punished after you do it or 2 that it will land. Just remember this ain't melee.

Down Smash

Hits on frame 6 and 21
Tipped: 14%
Untipped: 18%

A smash attacks that is abused by newer players I mean how could you not look at how fast it comes and it covers his whole body their can't possibly be any downside. Unfortunately much like the fsmash a move at first glance seems sexy is really dangerous. The cool down on this move hurts it a lot. You will get punished easily for over use of this move or just whipping it out whenever you please.

Up Smash

Hits on frame 12
Tipped: 21%
Untipped: 17%

I think this may be my favorite of all of Marth smash attacks. It has hit boxes at his feet and could possible spike(don't depend on this spiking someone though). On larger characters there's like a vacuum type of effect that will send them upwards and lead to a tipper usmash. I like using it during a dashing after I auto cancel a up air or out of shield. Don't spam this move though as it will lead to you getting punished mix it up but this is just my personal favorite out of his smash attacks.

Aerials​

Forward air

Hits on frames 4-8

Tipped: 13%
Untipped: 10%

The bread and butter of Marth's aerial game. With out this marth would prob drop on the tier list. It has great range. I can't even begin to describe how good fair is for marth. It will be your most used aerial so the odds of you killing with it become lessened however it should still kill depending on the character and whether or not it's fresh. Fair can always swat some projectiles.

Neutral air

Hits on frames 6,15,17(behind), and 19.

Tipped: 18%
Untipped: 12%

A great option in marths aerial. Has multiple uses. The first strike of nair can be used to start combos. Nair is a great spacing tool. Provides good shield pressure and makes it tough for your opponent to approach. The second hit has a lot of knock back and if tipped can kill.

Back air

Hits on frames 7-11.
Tipped: 14%
Untipped: 11%

Marth's bair I love this move a lot of range a lot of knock back easy to tip with. This move is killer and is his best tool for edge guarding. If you're going to edge guard use this move it can be used on stage but be careful because of the landing lag. This move is good for edge guarding because of it's range the knock back. Bait their second jump then send them flying away depending on the characters recovery that should be enough to kill them.

Up air

Hits on frames 6-9
Tipped: 13%
Untipped: 10%

Marth uai has a couple of uses. Like I stated before you can auto cancel this move also and lead into mind games and punishment for your opponents. A good juggling tool for Marth. One of Marth's many kill options. Mix this move into your game and you will find your self using it more and more.

Down air

Hits on frames 6-10
Tipped: 14%
Untipped: 12%

Marth meteor spike. Dair is good but has to be used wisely a lot of lag after wards if you can try not to do this move will on stage. Unless you like to be punished. This move only spikes when tipped and is easy to tip when you are facing the stage. One of the better uses of this move is to use a rising dair once hanging off the ledge.

Specials​

Shield Breaker

Tipped: 22%
Untipped: 8% uncharged 18% fully charged

Shield breaker has a couple of uses for it each use I advise use with caution. It can be used to obviously break shields and it can also be used for recovery. If perfect shielded you can be punished and if your opponent has a full shield it won't be broken. Also it can be used to punish those spot dodging happy people since you can charge it. When recovering with SB the first time you hold b and let go it will give you a boost depending on how long you charge it. This is good for Marth yet it is also bad because it becomes predictable and punishable. Shield breaker only tips when fully charged.

Dolphin Slash

Invincible frames 1-5
Hits on frames 5-11

Damage: 13%

Ah marths recovery a great tool in marth game. Not only is it used for recovery. It can be used offensively and defensively. One of his best OoS options an overall great move with killing potential at around 130%. You can DS though opponents multi hit moves. Can be used to get you out of bad situations like chain grabs. Forces opponents to be cautious and change their strategy. Just be careful because of the landing lag make sure not to miss this attack and when you do use it try to sweet spot the ledge. A stage with a lot of platforms are good when using this move since it gives you more options as to where to land.

Counter

I would say use this sparingly. It has a lot of cool down and could leave you open. You can use this to counter some opponents as they try to come back to the stage. Also can be used when someone is trying to edge guard but you have to be able to anticipate your opponent and you also have to be high enough were you wont die after you use it. I wouldn't use it with out my second jump when coming back to the stage.

Dancing Blades

DB1 Hits on frames 4-7
Damage: DB red 17% DB green 22% DB blue 18%

This is a move that really sets Marth apart. This move has multiple purposes and three different ending variations depending on how you perform the move. This move also freshen your moves which is great. The first hit of DB has transcendent priority. Best uses are for people who like to spot dodge, punishing people, and to freshen decayed moves. The DB blue variant will send your opponent in to the sky and can start juggle traps. The DB red variant will knock them back no real follow ups. DB green variant the green variant has a multi hit attack that can eat shield and shield stab. Each DB can kill all at high percentages though. You should get in the habit of using this to punish your opponent instead of your smash attacks. Also when recovering if you jump then use DB it will give you an extra boost. If your opponent is trying to edge hog you can wait out their invincibility frames by using the first strike of DB for the extra boost.

Grabs


Forward throw

Damage: 4%

Marth's forward throw does 4% to an opponent. His has some what of a chain grab on a small percent of the cast on low percentages. If you can land a fthrow when an opponent is on zero the best follow up would be a fsmash. It will connect on most of the cast for some of the others you will need to do a stutter step smash. Following up a fthrow can be trick once damaging gets higher. Because of this you really need to pick up your opponents habits.

Down throw

Damage: 5%

A lot like the fthrow it can be chained to a fsmash on a small percent of the cast. At higher percentages you will have to be able to predict your opponent in order to follow up a dthrow. So make sure you watch them and pick up their habits. This is a huge part in learning Marth being able to predict your opponents response and taking advantage of it.

Up Throw

Damage: 4%

Marth sends his opponent above him. This is good because you can start juggle traps with uair. Predict, read, and respond to your opponent air dodge punish them for their predictability. Up throw is good on characters with bad dairs and don't forget that uair can auto cancel and you can follow up with an usmash. A little mind game for your opponent.

Back throw

Damage: 4%

Marth worst grab. No follow ups.


Tips Tricks and everything in between

Marth's AT DS Ledgehog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMWIoYhfVeg&feature=channel

Marth Pivot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c

Chain Grab

Marth also has a chain grap on low percentages on certain characters. These characters are Sheik Wolf Fox falco DK Ike and d3. These chain grabs are at max four. You can tip to fsmash after two throws or you can dair some of them. Depends on stage position.

Grab Release

Marth Grab releases tested by steel2nd and a link to the thread a little later down.

Wario (lol)
* Fsmash
* Usmash
* Dolphin Slash
* Fair
* Uair
* Utilt
* Ftilt
* Nair

Lucas
* Fair

Ness
* Fair
* Uair

Meta Knight
* Fair
* Dolphin Slash
* Dair

Squirtle (lol)
* Chain grab release
* Fair
* Dancing Blade
* Pretty much everything really, squirtle can not do anything until he actually hits the ground. You can end the grab release with a spike, basically a 0-death.


Marth Grab release on MK to dair spike commentary by shaya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLMPxu1T_VA

Thread dedicated to Marth Grab releases
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179169

Marth Upsmash Spike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDMKcaGYoVg

Kadaj Combo

When MK is one zero you can fthrow nair and finishing with DB or fsmash.


Marth's Moveset
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcCVKU9zamk

Zones

Marth has 3 zones within his sword range. The out most zone or tipper range is his where you want to be at at all times. Since damage and knock back is increased when one of Marth attacks are tipped. While in this zone Marth range will be able to abuse most opponents and take advantage of their lack of range. Then there's a medium range zone you're no longer at tipper range and you opponent isn't in your grab range. At this range you're not at a disadvantage but you weren't as comfortable as you were since you are no longer at tip range. However you can play at this range this so don't panic and you still have a lot of options while your opponent is in this zone. The third zone is marths worst zone almost all of your options are closed out and depending on the opponent it can be rather frustrating.

Weaving

Weaving in and out of aerials is key for Marth. It prevents you from getting shield grabbed. When weaving your aerials I suggest c-sticking your aerials for maximum control. If you over rely on using the a button you will either get shield grabbed and you won't be able to max out Marth's potential.

Dash to Shield

Dashing to shield is something Marth mains should learn and practice. It's a safe way to approach. This is important because a safe marth is a good marth. Dash to shield will either give you a shield grab or you can Jump cancel up-smash or DS OoS. Depending on the attack your opponent does you may be able to drop your shield and do a dancing blades or do a retreating fair. Also keep in mind that during the initial start up of Marth's dash attack he can't do anything.

Edge Guarding

Edge guarding is a huge part of marth's game. Because of Marth's aerial dominance edge guarding is vital. It's a good way to rack up damage or kill people. I will talk about Marth's bair first. This is where Marth's bair really shines the knock back on the attack plus the move is easy to tip and has a lot of range it's really safe. If your opponent is come back from the stage chase after them RAR a bair right to their face and send them packing. If for some strange reason you miss keep in mind that bair turns you around and you can possibly fair them to their deaths. When edge guarding keep in mind the amount of jumps your opponent has so baiting jumps and spot dodges are keys to gimping them. The second strike of nair has a lot of knock back but sometimes it can knock them onto the stage. Dair spikes when it hits. When using dair plz do not run off stage and dair you will die.

Ledge Options

Ledge Traps

Match ups




I was going to do the percentages but I got lazy and didn't feel like doing it once I got home. I might do it later or find the percentages some where else. There may be some grammar erorr but I don't feel like correcting those either so it is what is. Hopefully there isn't too many mistakes. I got the data frames from steel2nd thread. I think that should cover everything if I left anything out besides the percentages just LMK and i'll fix it. Oh I'm pretty sure that I got the chain grab part wrong correct me I think I went off of memory and stuff and such things.

don't make a guide if you're not experienced at marth -__-

clowsui said:

don't make a guide if you're not experienced at marth -__-

Click to expand...

OBV you didn't bother to read any of the guide....

... Almostlegendary, this guide is VERY vague at explaining what the moves do in damage and is riddled with opinion... This seems to be Steel2nd's frame data guide accompanied by a "use this move at around..." kind of a thing. If you are going to make a guide, please be more specific. I'm glad that you are trying to make a guide but seriously, it has to have information players wouldn't have know besides frame data because they can look at the already made frame data guide.

There are even some wrong things in this guide. Shouldn't Marth's con be disadvantage on horizontal recovery, not vertical?

I skimmed it, tbh

Mentioning hit frames on moves =! sufficient data

Offensive data is not sufficient, period. I need to know my risk (advantage, lag frames) too...rewards (%)
Saying you'll edit in later makes a half-@$$ guide

You don't explain advanced concepts either...in a guide you are summarizing the best parts of Marth's game correct? If so then it's necessary to explain the idea of "ledge traps", "juggle traps", "zoning" at least in part. Furthermore the intermediate Marth will need to know the idea of "baiting", "effective punishment", and perhaps the really important part "Marth's Weaknesses and How to Avoid Them" (though important at every level of play it's important for the intermediate to have an understanding of the weaknesses so he doesn't lose in tourney...with beginners knowing the advantage and learning how to abuse it at this point needs to be top priority if we want a new generations of aggro-Marths).

DemonicTrilogy said:

... Almostlegendary, this guide is VERY vague at explaining what the moves do in damage and is riddled with opinion... This seems to be Steel2nd's frame data guide accompanied by a "use this move at around..." kind of a thing. If you are going to make a guide, please be more specific. I'm glad that you are trying to make a guide but seriously, it has to have information players wouldn't have know besides frame data because they can look at the already made frame data guide.

There are even some wrong things in this guide. Shouldn't Marth's con be disadvantage on horizontal recovery, not vertical?

Click to expand...

Yeah it should be horizontal recovery. I'll add the percentages. I did get lazy it was more work than I thought it would be.

clowsui said:

I skimmed it, tbh

Mentioning hit frames on moves =! sufficient data

Offensive data is not sufficient, period. I need to know my risk (advantage, lag frames) too...rewards (%)
Saying you'll edit in later makes a half-@$$ guide

You don't explain advanced concepts either...in a guide you are summarizing the best parts of Marth's game correct? If so then it's necessary to explain the idea of "ledge traps", "juggle traps", "zoning" at least in part. Furthermore the intermediate Marth will need to know the idea of "baiting", "effective punishment", and perhaps the really important part "Marth's Weaknesses and How to Avoid Them" (though important at every level of play it's important for the intermediate to have an understanding of the weaknesses so he doesn't lose in tourney...with beginners knowing the advantage and learning how to abuse it at this point needs to be top priority if we want a new generations of aggro-Marths).

Click to expand...

I see what you're saying i'll fix it up the best I can but not tonight I need sleep.

More professional, less "IMO".
Props to you for trying, but there's a lot of room for improvement.
Also, wow. People are mean lol.

Vitamin_x said:

More professional, less "IMO".
Props to you for trying, but there's a lot of room for improvement.
Also, wow. People are mean lol.

Click to expand...

We were mean? I'm sure we didn't mean to be that way in our post...

It's at least better for us to simply give him a heads-up on some issues than watch as the real PRO'S come in and trample over this. Plus, that forum war on the vid critique thread between him and the rest of the anti-wifi people might arise grudges between some so it's good to help him with this before they come to be truly mean by being overly critical and such as acts of revenge.

he asked me to look it over before he posted it, i kind of skimmed it but i didn't want to tell him just "don't post it" when he obviously put some time into it. but in all honesty im not sure how necessary this is. try and get some input from these guys to fix everything up or just leave our current guides as is.

Steel2nd said:

he asked me to look it over before he posted it, i kind of skimmed it but i didn't want to tell him just "don't post it" when he obviously put some time into it. but in all honesty im not sure how necessary this is. try and get some input from these guys to fix everything up or just leave our current guides as is.

Click to expand...

Aww Steel has a heart.

This is an ok start to say the least. Fix a few grammar errors, more detail, and you'll get it. Denzi made an excellent post on what should be done.

Also, look at some other guides, it'll help (no copying though!)

Hey, at least this guy had his heart in the right place. This person only intentionally wanted to help new players out which I thought was a very thoughtful thing for this person to do. Also, this person is giving up their time to create a guide so that new players can have a basic understanding on how Marth should be used. Consider yourselves lucky that you aren't the ones doing the dirty work of writing everything up!

Also, I'd like to pitch in some more pros and cons and elaborate on some points you made earlier:

Pros

• Has good range
• Height (Being tall is more of a con, but it doesn't really affect Marth in any way. Might want to get rid of this one.)
• Can kill early if he tippers his attacks at fairly high %'s
• Dancing Blade is possibly one of the best special moves in the game.
• Has a good set of aerial attacks.
• Has good air speed
• Good air game because of the 2 earlier points.
• Good OoS options
• Fast walk speed
• All of his attacks have disjointed hitboxes to them.
• Can spike
• Has the best counter in the game.
• Good grab range
• Has a CG on a few characters including ALL space animals
• Good grab release options
• Has a lot of favorable match-ups
• ^B has invincibility frames
• Good approach options

Cons

• Light weight
• Laggy Smash attacks
• Lack of horizontal movement on recovery
• No projectile
• Dash attack isn't too good
• Weak against opponents who are below him
• Doesn't have good ledge options
• Has weak throws
• Recovery is easily edge hogged
• Dash grab has bad range
• Jab is average at best
• Does poorly against characters who are in his face.
• Spike is unreliable as it's hard to land and you must sweetspot the attack for it to work.

*Also, his Jab and Fair can fan/swat some projectiles. This makes it easier for him to approach certain characters.

@Almostlengendary: Okay, some constructive criticism. This is a reasonably good start for the guide. However, I agree with the fact this guide needs more work done to it like what almost everyone else here has mentioned before me. I think that some more sections should be added to this guide like a summary of his match-ups and what stages he is good and bad on. (I've got more ideas if you wish for me to tell you more.)

Also, I liked Denzi's piece of advice: Don't just put down links from other guides to explain a section. That's just slack on your part. (No offense intended. It just makes the guide look slack.) Also, that's possibly one of the WORST things to do when writing a guide for new players. What new players are looking for is simple, basic information on how to use this character properly, what they shouldn't be doing with this character, what this character's strengths and weaknesses are, what his good and bad moves etc. you get the picture. When you throw a guides/threads at them done by people like Emblem Lord for example, they'll be like: OMG! Huge wall of text for 1 attack! I don't want to read all of this! I just simply want to know how it works and whether if it is a useful move to use often or not! However, for those new players who DO read it, they'll get caught up by complicated thoughts like DI, IASA frames and to a worser extent, they may abuse the attack. (SB in this case, is NOT a move to be abused by beginners.) Summarize it and KEEP IT SIMPLE. Those kind of threads are for more experienced players. You've got to understand that when some people look at this thread, they may be completely new to the game or using Marth. If it's too complicated, they'll stop reading it and probably look at another guide for a different character because you put them off and made them think that Marth is a very difficult character to use. Therefore, your guide failed at providing basic information on how to use Marth. You don't want that to happen now do you? (Not saying this guide will as you're not done yet. Keep this in mind however.)

I'm in the middle of making 2 guides ATM as well. If you want me to help fix any grammar errors, structure your work or if you want more suggestions or even help with the guide in general, don't hesitate to ask! Because my punctuation and writing skills are 1337! Good luck with your guide. Can't wait to see it finished.

Atria said:

Hey, at least this guy had his heart in the right place. This person only intentionally wanted to help new players out which I thought was a very thoughtful thing for this person to do. Also, this person is giving up their time to create a guide so that new players can have a basic understanding on how Marth should be used. Consider yourselves lucky that you aren't the ones doing the dirty work of writing everything up!

Also, I'd like to pitch in some more pros and cons and elaborate on some points you made earlier:



*Also, his Jab and Fair can fan/swat some projectiles. This makes it easier for him to approach certain characters.

@Almostlengendary: Okay, some constructive criticism. This is a reasonably good start for the guide. However, I agree with the fact this guide needs more work done to it like what almost everyone else here has mentioned before me. I think that some more sections should be added to this guide like a summary of his match-ups and what stages he is good and bad on. (I've got more ideas if you wish for me to tell you more.)

Also, I liked Denzi's piece of advice: Don't just put down links from other guides to explain a section. That's just slack on your part. (No offense intended. It just makes the guide look slack.) Also, that's possibly one of the WORST things to do when writing a guide for new players. What new players are looking for is simple, basic information on how to use this character properly, what they shouldn't be doing with this character, what this character's strengths and weaknesses are, what his good and bad moves etc. you get the picture. When you throw a guides/threads at them done by people like Emblem Lord for example, they'll be like: OMG! Huge wall of text for 1 attack! I don't want to read all of this! I just simply want to know how it works and whether if it is a useful move to use often or not! However, for those new players who DO read it, they'll get caught up by complicated thoughts like DI, IASA frames and to a worser extent, they may abuse the attack. (SB in this case, is NOT a move to be abused by beginners.) Summarize it and KEEP IT SIMPLE. Those kind of threads are for more experienced players. You've got to understand that when some people look at this thread, they may be completely new to the game or using Marth. If it's too complicated, they'll stop reading it and probably look at another guide for a different character because you put them off and made them think that Marth is a very difficult character to use. Therefore, your guide failed at providing basic information on how to use Marth. You don't want that to happen now do you? (Not saying this guide will as you're not done yet. Keep this in mind however.)

I'm in the middle of making 2 guides ATM as well. If you want me to help fix any grammar errors, structure your work or if you want more suggestions or even help with the guide in general, don't hesitate to ask! Because my punctuation and writing skills are 1337! Good luck with your guide. Can't wait to see it finished.

Click to expand...

All right thanks I will work on it some more and any help you can provide would be nice.

Hmmm... lemme give you some tips! (how original)

Basically what is missing is an actual explanation of how Marth plays. All his moves are listed, even with a little description, but Marth's general playstyle isn't even mentioned. Also a lot of things like Weaving, Trapping, Brickwalling, Boxing (lol), SHFFling and even WALKING (!) aren't covered. Without these basic things, the guide is near useless. Also check the spelling and some sentences are wrong.

I know people are harsh, and people expect you to do a lot, but a guide should actually be helpful and inspiring. Right now it is just a list of moves and threads, which can all be found in other threads as well.

Btw if you want me to help you with anything just ask^^ GL!

So... this is bugging me. What is the difference between weaving and spacing? Zoning and spacing? I don't know why all these unnecessary terms and threads are popping up when it's all just spacing.

kpeezy said:

So... this is bugging me. What is the difference between weaving and spacing? Zoning and spacing? I don't know why all these unnecessary terms and threads are popping up when it's all just spacing.

Click to expand...

There's a Marth question and answer thread for this you should try it.

Hmmm... lemme give you some tips! (how original)

Basically what is missing is an actual explanation of how Marth plays. All his moves are listed, even with a little description, but Marth's general playstyle isn't even mentioned. Also a lot of things like Weaving, Trapping, Brickwalling, Boxing (lol), SHFFling and even WALKING (!) aren't covered. Without these basic things, the guide is near useless. Also check the spelling and some sentences are wrong.

I know people are harsh, and people expect you to do a lot, but a guide should actually be helpful and inspiring. Right now it is just a list of moves and threads, which can all be found in other threads as well.

Btw if you want me to help you with anything just ask^^ GL!

Click to expand...

I have a summary of weaving and zoning down towards the bottom. I will probally go into some of that stuff that you said but there's guides dedicated to that already.

kpeezy said:

So... this is bugging me. What is the difference between weaving and spacing? Zoning and spacing? I don't know why all these unnecessary terms and threads are popping up when it's all just spacing.

Click to expand...

Weaving: Retreating to a safer position after landing an air attack (e.g. Marth's fair) to prevent punishment. In most cases it is simply moving back.

Spacing: The distance you use your attacks at. Take for example Falco's blaster ( neutral B ), good spacing is standing far away from your opponent, bad spacing is standing next to them.

Zoning: Controlling an area of the stage with your attacks. Again let's take Falco's blaster, since it's the ultimate Zoning tool. When standing a good distance away from your opponent and shooting, you basically make the whole area around the floor unsafe for him.
Result:Your opponent now HAS to approach to stop Falco from blastering, and you can take advantage of that.

They are are all different.

His grabs being weak aren't a con. His grab game is amazing.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

His grabs being weak aren't a con. His grab game is amazing.

Click to expand...

I don't know if I would say amazing. It's not like his throw game is like d3. Once you get to higher percantages the really no follow ups.

It should be something like:
Pros:
- Long ranged Grab and Pivot grab
- Good Grab/Throw game

Cons
- Low % throws
- Useless Bthrow

@Almostlegendary

If you mess with DI / Air chasing you can still get some hits in, and Marth's forward and down throw send your opponent in a bad spot anyway.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

I don't know if I would say amazing. It's not like his throw game is like d3. Once you get to higher percantages the really no follow ups.

Click to expand...

It is amazing. D3 has a CG which makes his obviously good. Marth can follow up like every throw (except Bthrow sucks). It helps that they don't have great knockback, and it doesn't really matter if they have bad damage (although they do) since you can almost always add to the damage to the throw from a follow-up.

BBoyindo said:

It should be something like:
Pros:
- Long ranged Grab and Pivot grab
- Good Grab/Throw game

Cons
- Low % throws
- Useless Bthrow

@Almostlegendary

If you mess with DI / Air chasing you can still get some hits in, and Marth's forward and down throw send your opponent in a bad spot anyway.

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This is true but this is also dependent on the player.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

It is amazing. D3 has a CG which makes his obviously good. Marth can follow up like every throw (except Bthrow sucks). It helps that they don't have great knockback, and it doesn't really matter if they have bad damage (although they do) since you can almost always add to the damage to the throw from a follow-up.

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How is marth grab gaming amazing yet d3 grab game is good. I fail to follow your logic. I aslo went into how you can follow up his grabs in the grab section.

This guide is still very basic but shows some potential.

illinialex24 said:

This guide is still very basic but shows some potential.

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That's was the point of the guide. I'll try too add more stuff though.

Ankoku said:

Do you have a problem with interpreting statements based on context rather than singular words? SOLID said Dedede's grab game is obviously good, key word being obviously, not good, due to the chaingrab.

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Whos grab game is better Marth or d3?

Ankoku said:

Do you have a problem with interpreting statements based on context rather than singular words? SOLID said Dedede's grab game is obviously good, key word being obviously, not good, due to the chaingrab.

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Thank you, someone knows what I'm trying to say...

....

so, wtf is the point of this guide again? no offense kid

we might as well put a collective effort onto this.

i think if im not mistaken, this is supposed to be a gathering of basic ideas like ulevo had for us... but took it off.

Alright, alright.

Almost:

Have to be quite honest here, you don't have the experience yet to be writing this. This is going to take a long *** time to fix. I think for now the current guides we have will work and I think Shaya is working on the "ultimate" marth guide in a wiki format. Thanks for trying, but I suggest we let this die.

Ankoku said:

I don't answer pointless questions.

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Why is it pointless? I don't get why one person grab game is considered amazing while another one is considering obviously good when it's clear who has the superior grab game.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

Thank you, someone knows what I'm trying to say...

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it seems that you describe Marth grab game as amazing and d3 grab game as obviously good when d3 is superior to Marth. I think there's a clear bias is your description of both characters grab game but whatever man.

**Havok** said:

we might as well put a collective effort onto this.

i think if im not mistaken, this is supposed to be a gathering of basic ideas like ulevo had for us... but took it off.

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Yeah that's is the point of this guide.

@steel you should have told me this yesterday b4 I got this far I will still put the percentages up and then whatever is to be done with this guide can be doen with it.

......tell me how you really feel.

This collection of pictures accurately portrays how I'm feeling right now.

Ok let it die. Try again later and we shall see.

I'm going to pity him for you guys.

The "obviously good" means that any idiot can realize how good D3s grab game is. Not that it is just good, or that it is the best in the game, the specific quality isn't identified other than that it is good in general.

SOLID was in no way comparing Marth's grab game to D3s. He was just agreeing with you on the fact that DDDs grab game is amazing, but the obviously part shows that it's great on a basic level; you can easily use it as a main factor in the match because the chaingrab can add 40% by just landing one grab. But Marth's grab game is great if you look for what it leads to and what you can do out of it; the throws put Marth in a good situation to do damage, while D3s chainthrow is mostly for damage. (IE FThrow at the ledge. They either DI off the ledge and get ledge trapped, or DI up to get juggle trapped/ledge trapped depending on how they move)

Until this matter gets straightened out and tempers recede, this will remain closed.