Snake Testers -- Things to Test

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7176117&postcount=887

^ what that thread says:

myself said:

I believe we should try to get in depth more, and more technical with how we approach matchups.


Example being using 1 Jab or the entire AAA combo in a matchup (refer to http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159 )

Who we can Jab > Buffer Ftilt on.

Who has a hard/impossible time DI'ing out of our nair.

Who rolls far/fast and is therefore hard to dthrow techchase.

Who rolls slow/close and is therefore easy to dthrow techchase.

How do opponents getup? (Before and After 100%) -- I notice some characters attack AWAY from Snake first, then towards Snake. So simply taking 1 step back and standing their allows you to react in time to ALL OF THEIR OPTIONS and basically GUARANTEE a follow up below 100%.

Opponents would be classified in:

1. Attacks away (Link at below 100% if I remember...or did he attack towards?)
2. Attacks Towards (I forget who)
3. Attacks both direction (like Samus at 100% + if I remember correctly)

G&W/Olimar have pathetic rolls and are easy to regrab, while Samus/Snake have really fast/far rolls. (You have to boost grab to chain a Snake who rolls away from you.)

I've noticed some characters are much harder to hit with Grenades (Olimar) because of their height, at certain distances you just throw the grenade right over them. A (somewhat) fix to this is to have to run off the stage and throw the grenade. It'd be useful to have a list of characters too short to be hit by a grenade when its (1. weak tossed. 2. strong tossed) - AFTER BEING SHIELD DROPPED


/posts this in my metagame thread...

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Test: What Up-B's does nair or bair stop?
Answered: In Testing

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Test:What %'s will an explosion (uncharged mine, fully charged mine, grenade, c4) lead to a 'guaranteed' nair?
Answered: This will take a while to test, and it may never be guaranteed, it may be guaranteed vs only certain characters (possibly heavyweigts?) etc.

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Test:At what %'s will Dtilt successfully lead to an aerial (or have a good chance)? (to make dtilt not useless)

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Test:What causes a grenade to blow up rather then 'bounce' when hit?

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Test: Can we Grab Release x move Wario? How about any other character? (Such as Grab Release > Jab > Ftilt > Ftilt2)
Answered: You can use Nair/uair against Wario after an Aerial Grab Release.

EXAMPLE:

Marth can aerial grab release > dair spike Meta Knight.
Yoshi can CG several characters.

Since snake can FORCE AN AIR RELEASE, we should test what characters we can regrab (FALCO!!!!!! we can with a boost grab ), Dash attack, or DACUS (Sheik has a grab release > DACUS on several characters. INCLUDING META KNIGHT)



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A HUGE NOTE:

I will be remaking the thread for my metagame thread, its messy and has me bumping it several times. There are extremely high chances this will become that new thread, with a better name to attract attention.


Note to testers -- I'm working with Tub. You are a tester, please. Get testing.

List of testers:

Official List:
Tub: 4511-0178-8532
-NaPPy: 3952-6672-2015
nevershootme: 1461-5871-6944
KuroZero: 3566-1225-5239
KingKirb: 5412-9924-8912

This is great!
I'll make sure to post a link to this from our soc. group once I get computer access.

facts:

snake can't blow up his own grenades (not even a nikita or mortar)

-characters like olimar and mk have slow rolls for easy regrabs after d-throw

-most likely heavy characters have a hard time escaping n-air

- jab -> f-tilt works 90% of the time, with better benefits for heavy characters. milege may vary on this as people can smash DI and hold block to prevent it

- d-tilt -> u-tilt does not work period.... buys enough time to jump and DI.

-d-tilt -> aerial doesn't work period. not enough startup time on his aerial to make contact

I'm looking into the bounce effect of grenades. I'm getting some really weird results.

Note: All the trials have been on training mode (1/4th speed) with snake's medium toss with attacks taken while the grenade is in the air or has bounced on the ground.

Bowsers Flames from Neu. B seems to be the only attack so far in which the grenades will always bounce off. Even with multiple flames going it will still not explode till the 4 second fuse has gone off.

Trying to figure out why this is I tried a few other attacks to test out my ideas and so far nothing has worked. MKs Uair causes it to explode, but the dask attack didn't, pikachu's jab made it explode. Although, pretty much every single attack of CFs DOES NOT cause it to explode.

The only attacks that did cause it to explode where utilt, downsmash and an aerial SideB. Every other attack's hitbox that made contact with the greande bounced off of it. The grenade only blew up with the other moves when the grenade hit CF first then CF's attack's hitbox made contact with the grenade did it blow up.

From those results it seems that I cannot seem to find any common pattern to which might cause it to explode or bounce. It's most likely a series of causes. The biggest one I can think of is that the grenade has special properties when it's been tossed or thrown to dictate if the grenade will bounce or explode. When it makes contact with a character the grenade loses those properties and then will explode when any hitbox makes contact with it.

hey once i was playing against falco and his f-smash made the grenade bounce :O

I'm pretty sure Snake can grab release Ganon, if anyone can confirm it ^^.

im pretty sure pits a non-charged pits arrow will bounce the grenade as it happened all the time when i played against pit


edit: i did some more testing and a fully charged pit arrow will still make it bounce, when you the nade is thrown and it bounces off the floor; shooting after it bounces will explode it (also sometimes the arrow goes thru the nade and still makes it bounces)

i found out that perfect shielding makes grenades bounce

hizosturm said:

i Found Out That Perfect Shielding Makes Grenades Bounce

Click to expand...

ಠ_ಠ

10ಠ_ಠ

HizoSturm said:

i found out that perfect shielding makes grenades bounce

Click to expand...

All shields do...
or are you trying to say something else?

SuSa said:

Since snake can FORCE AN AIR RELEASE, we should test what characters we can regrab

Click to expand...

I didn't know Snake could force one... How does he do it? Am I just dumb and never noticed this before? D:

Zajice said:

I didn't know Snake could force one... How does he do it? Am I just dumb and never noticed this before? D:

Click to expand...

by not pummeling during the release.

Tub said:

by not pummeling during the release.

Click to expand...

what if they button-mash and stuffs? will it air release?

mofo_ said:

what if they button-mash and stuffs? will it air release?

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yes, just faster.
the only way for them to be ground-released, is if they break out when you're in the middle of a pummel.

Tub said:

yes, just faster.
the only way for them to be ground-released, is if they break out when you're in the middle of a pummel.

Click to expand...

That and if they touch the ground. Someone like MK grabbing snake will pretty much never get an air release even if they do pummel. But since snake is so tall, pretty much the whole cast cannot touch the ground and will always get and air release if you manage one pummel before they break free.

Sorry for the double post, but it's been awhile since the last one anyway and this will bump the thread. If you want to delete a post do the one above this one.

Testing for get-up attacks below 100% after snake has just used Dthrow.

Towards - Away
DK
Mario
Kirby
Pikachu
Marth
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Pit
MK
Charizard
Ike
SNake
Ness
Lucario
DDD
ICs (Both of them)
Peach
Bowser
Olimar
Jiggs
Lucas
ZSS

Away - Towards
Link
Fox
G&W
Shiek
Falco
Squirtle (Move back to avoid getting hit by away hit)
Ivysaur (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Sonic (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Wolf (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Yoshi (Move back to avoid getting hit by away hit)
Wario (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
TL (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)

Both Sides
Samus
Ganon
ROB
CF

So pretty much everyone on the Away-Towards list people are the ones that are likely to be possible to get a 100% follow up on.



Will edit later with over 100% get-up attack results and other things.

Test: Can we Grab Release x move Wario? How about any other character? (Such as Grab Release > Jab > Ftilt > Ftilt2)
Answered: You can use Nair/uair against Wario after an Aerial Grab Release.

Click to expand...

You can also Utilt or Bair a Wario after grab release.


Here is also something interesting worth testing: I've found that the Nikita can go through (as in, explode on them) several recoveries that normally just change the trajectory of the missile after hitting. This can happen when the recoveries/attacks hit the SIDE of the Nikita as opposed to the HEAD of the Nikita. Some of these recoveries include Falco's/Fox's/Luigi's side B. All you have to do is put it in line with their recovery and point the head downwards so they collide with the side of the Nikita.

So I think it'd be interesting to have a more comprehensive list of recoveries that the Nikita can go through when turned on its side.

__crystal____ said:

Sorry for the double post, but it's been awhile since the last one anyway and this will bump the thread. If you want to delete a post do the one above this one.

Testing for get-up attacks below 100% after snake has just used Dthrow.

Towards - Away
DK
Mario
Kirby
Pikachu
Marth
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Pit
MK
Charizard
Ike
SNake
Ness
Lucario
DDD
ICs (Both of them)
Peach
Bowser
Olimar
Jiggs
Lucas
ZSS

Away - Towards
Link
Fox
G&W
Shiek
Falco
Squirtle (Move back to avoid getting hit by away hit)
Ivysaur (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Sonic (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Wolf (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
Yoshi (Move back to avoid getting hit by away hit)
Wario (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)
TL (Can stand and not get hit by away hit)

Both Sides
Samus
Ganon
ROB
CF

So pretty much everyone on the Away-Towards list people are the ones that are likely to be possible to get a 100% follow up on.



Will edit later with over 100% get-up attack results and other things.

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this, I was looking for something like this for a long time.

if this was Gunz I would give you +1 rep =P.

If snake breaks someone's shield, is there enough time while their stunned to stick them with C4, give them a fully charged forward smash, and detonate the C4 as they fly away?

Actually, when someone's shield is broken you have enough time to sticky them, plant a mine, drop two grenades let them blow up everything around them [the mine+grenades] then C4 them in the air [or just look up the wargasm]--that's better. In any event, a fully-charged f-smash is probably an auto-kill anyway.

doing the wargasm is just for astetic purposes highly not reccomended in a tournament match, only a full charged f-smash from 40% and up is enough to finish a person's stock