Meta Knight+

Mr.-0 · Apr 18, 2009

Okay, so sorry guys ( and goldgagoon ) that this is gonna suck compared to the cool threads like the marth one. But that doesn't matter right!? Okay yes it does. So to the main point. This thread is to discusse Mk's metagame in B+: his gimps, ko moves, compboes, traps, etc. Not buffs and nerfs. So if you want to get my opinion, he's relitively unchanged. But hitstun though does allow for some real comboes. Please discuss. And yes, I switched it to MK minus because people told me too.

Nintendevil · Apr 18, 2009

*screams*

His combos **** quite a bit, but his slow aerial movement makes it tough for him to follow up at times. Good Ground speed too.

Mr.-0 · Apr 18, 2009

Yeah, his aerial speed didn't improve at all. Dash danceing with him is fun

It can lead to great comboes with fair and dair if you space properly and because of hit stun it makes his comboes even better. Definitely still gonna be the best.

Turbo Ether · Apr 18, 2009

Yeah, i'm also thinking he's still the best. The non-sweetspot ledges don't hurt him much at all, yet make edgeguarding with him even easier.

Mr.-0 · Apr 18, 2009

Yep. Most of the new physics in B+ don't affect him much.

IC3R · Apr 18, 2009

Do you think that Sakurai actually knew what he was doing when he made MK such a monster?

Roxas215 · Apr 18, 2009

IC3R said:
Do you think that Sakurai actually knew what he was doing when he made MK such a monster?

MK is his creation. I sure he knew what he was doing when making mk and dedede.

King Funk · Apr 25, 2009

Haha... The low post count tells you how much people used to hate Meta Knight in vBrawl. It's better than Wolf though, who hasn't even got a thread yet. On a more serious note, how come no one is talking about the still-to-be best character in Brawl+?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCUCeqVTYKQ --> I know this is 3.3, but look at 2:13

Veril · Apr 25, 2009

The question now should be, does MK have counters.

I think he's mad fun personally, so he's definitely gonna be a secondary for me.

Mr.-0 · Apr 25, 2009

Yes. So many people hated him in vbrawl. And as for the soon to b bets character, nobody knows yet. ( MK ) That's why I think they should make a B+ tier list thread.

Andarel · Apr 25, 2009

Why would they make a tier list when moveset changes aren't even finalized and a change to 1 or 2 moves, or to fall speed, could shoot someone up or down the tier list?

Anyways, MK is still ridiculous offstage. His nerfs were well-deserved (especially dsmash and shuttle loop), but his airgame is great, even if you have to read DI well to combo. Shuttle loop is still a great kill move at high percents, and his priority is still broken enough that, even though a lot of characters' projectiles have improved, his close range game is hard to work against.

Easily one of the best characters still. Now if only his downB was useful.

JCaesar · Apr 25, 2009

I think there's just not enough information available to compile a remotely accurate tier list.

And MK was a primary reason that a lot of people switched to B+ in the first place. Yet he's still clearly the best

Veril · Apr 25, 2009

I personally do believe MK has counters. Just to throw some names out there: Snake, ZSS, Jiggs, Zelda, Wario.

Plum · Apr 25, 2009

The problem with MK in vBrawl was that the physics of the game created an environment in which there was no way to exploit his natural weaknesses as a character.

Now his weight actually becomes a problem, his horizontal momentum can create problems for him, he isn't floaty, and this may just be my experience but a character like Samus or Link can now more effectively wall him out with projectiles and Zair.

His weight didn't matter in vBrawl because there was no way to force him into a finisher like characters can in Brawl+. Same with his lack of floatiness. It makes him fairly easy to combo at low and mid percents, which makes his weight even more of an issue because he actually has to worry about following up against him which pushes him to his lower % needed for a kill. His poor movement in the air makes aerial combos more difficult for him which is going to limit his combo game closer to the ground; not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something to consider.

He definitely is still the best in the game. He is probably the most balanced character in the game. You can argue that characters like Fox and Falcon have a stronger offensive game than MK but they don't have the defensive game to back them up.

I have a feeling that his role as a character will be more like Snake now. He will still be a powerhouse with a majority of favorable matchups but I have the feeling that a counterpick will exist now, and some matchups that aren't really counterpicks but not in his favor.

Rudra · Apr 25, 2009

MK is still a beast. That obscene priority and range coupled with his speed makes him a combo and pressure monster. While he can't kill as well as he used to, it doesnt matter as much so long as the player knows how to gimp well offstage.

He also still has his Nair (startup) to kill when necessary, especially OoS if his opponent's too close (or at least drive them off of the stage to be in the position to be gimped.)

Plum · Apr 25, 2009

Rudra said:
MK is still a beast. That obscene priority and range coupled with his speed makes him a combo and pressure monster. While he can't kill as well as he used to, it doesnt matter as much so long as the player knows how to gimp well offstage. He also still has his Nair (startup) to kill when necessary, especially OoS if his opponent's too close (or at least drive them off of the stage to be in the position to be gimped.)

Speaking of range and priority, I am very excited to see where the Marth vs Meta Knight matchup goes.

Marth definitely outranges him, that is just a longer sword = fact kind of thing. Now that he has more followups and and a better aerial game I would love to see how the matchup changes.

Yingyay · Apr 25, 2009

I_Am_Plum said:
Speaking of range and priority, I am very excited to see where the Marth vs Meta Knight matchup goes.

Marth definitely outranges him, that is just a longer sword = fact kind of thing. Now that he has more followups and and a better aerial game I would love to see how the matchup changes.

Its a really funny matchup. I would say its about 55-45 MK favor. Marth on the ground can space MK and tipper smashes wreck him, but when MK gets in and knocks him off the stage he's a goner.

Plum · Apr 25, 2009

Yingyay said:
Its a really funny matchup. I would say its about 55-45 MK favor. Marth on the ground can space MK and tipper smashes wreck him, but when MK gets in and knocks him off the stage he's a goner.

Now that you say that, it really reminds me of the Snake matchup.
Snake's horribly gimpable recovery is what hurts him more than anything.

Same would go for Marth, definitely agree there.

Andarel · Apr 25, 2009

Plum raises a few good points, most importantly his lack of super-floatiness. Since finishing is much easier, Metaknight's amazing recovery options are slightly less important and it's also not as hard to rack up damage on him. Better yet, he is finally punishable well - most characters have had massively improved spacing games while his has actually worsened due to the tornado and dsmash nerfs.

I don't know if he's balanced, but he's definitely not as overly powerful as in vBrawl. It actually makes him more fun to play as, somehow...

Mr.-0 · Apr 25, 2009

More fun, as in your friends don't jhoan about him as much right? If that's true than yes. But really i don't notice that. THough the statement about him being the best in B+ is debateable, since i'm now a snake main I have to disagree.

I did not say snake was better. I was just impling it. ( Though he's really not, but thaat's still debateable. Okay, probably not. Though because of all the spectualtion about their finnaly being a MK CP, I thought that since snake was also relatively unchanged he might flourish. )

Zeallyx · Apr 25, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Yet he's still clearly the best

No he's not.
And even if you are right, more nerfes will follow.
Him beeing 'clearly' the best will not be accepted. Like with every other character.

Roxas215 · Apr 25, 2009

MK is still arguably the best in the game(but people can argue this about marth) But he is not nearly as broken as he was in vbrawl and when i face mk in brawl+ it's actually fun now. MK will keep you on your toes the whole match.

Mr.-0 · Apr 25, 2009

Some poeple also think that fox might dethrone him. I also agree ( again ) that MK is not clearly the best. Marth and fox while along with him are all near gurantee top tier, I think that marth will get it.

Metatitan · Apr 25, 2009

i dont think fox is top tier material. btw does mk have any bad matchups now?

Plum · Apr 25, 2009

Metatitan said:
i dont think fox is top tier material. btw does mk have any bad matchups now?

Hard to say if he does or not.
Still pretty early in the Brawl+ scene, so matchups could change at any time with more little tweaks to characters movesets.

With the current codeset it is still hard to say because there isn't a large tourney scene, nor have we really seen top level MK's play B+ so its hard to say how somebody like Tyrant, Spam, Dojo or M2K would play MK in B+. But more top players are playing Brawl+ as time goes on. Chu, Boss, G Reg, Ninjalink, so it is only a matter of time until we see that happen.

From my experience I'm beating MK more than I loose with my Wario, but I'm still saying that matchup is even, maybe 55-45 for Wario at this point.

Jiggly could even pose to be a counter but I'm just theory crafting here. She is floaty enough where MK isn't going to be comboing her, while she can combo him, not to mention how insanely early Rest can kill MK. Again I'm also excited to see the Marth matchup. Marth's ground game is going to constantly outspace MK, and Marth's aerial game while still being beaten out by MK can offer him more competition. Range is a key factor in the air, but MK has his jumps and shear speed going for him which gives him the edge. Marth's biggest hindrance will be his recovery, but if he keeps to the stage he should be able to have the advantage.

Again, theory crafting here.

Mr.-0 · Apr 25, 2009

With rest, her floatiness and hitstun I say jiggs has the advantage over MK. Same with wario. Hitstun pluys his aerials plus waft mindgaming are also to hard for MK to keep up with. And plum, I think marth has the advantage and is going to be the top of the top tier.

Deleted member · Apr 25, 2009

Toon link is going to do well too i think, probably evenish. Toon link can still space well, while having bair combos into spikes and up air for early kills, and as long as TL keeps a bomb on him, hes not gonna get combod too much. Edgeguarding could be trouble.

Mr.-0 · Apr 25, 2009

He's okay, but not top tier IMO. Hey, you live in San Diego? Whoa, stupid chargers, huh!?

ANd, I live in the OC. We should play wifi some time. Maybe later tonight. ( But not now. ) I think i'll Pm you.

Rocann · Apr 26, 2009

I've got a b+ tournament with m2k today. I play falcon. we'll see how it works out

JOE! · Apr 26, 2009

hmn, Bowser had an even (45-55 MK) Matchup in vBrawl

now that MK has a harder time killing, and his weight can be punished, along with the boozer-buffs...

Does bowser have the edge? or is he just comboed to death? >.>

wazgood · Apr 26, 2009

MK+ more like MK- amirite?

King Funk · Apr 26, 2009

wazgood said:
MK+ more like MK- amirite?

Compared to the other characters, yes. But by personal development, no.

Mr.-0 · Apr 26, 2009

... I didn't know M2K plays brawl+.

Sterowent · Apr 26, 2009

If that was a joke, AndyG...

it was a sad clown kinda joke. But your Falcon makes me happy again, so it's all good.

Also, bowser vs. MK matchups were that fair? in vBrawl! What?!

MK has lost some KO power, but he still retains what made him MK: his cool priority, powerful gimp tools, mobility, and speed.
Maybe some of his b-moves will be tweaked to be less ultra-raep, but MK keeps his identity in b+ pretty nicely.

I feel the urge...to know more about him now. Oh man, i was so excited when he was announced...
Now i don't have to worry about the god-mode stigma! Awesome.

Veril · Apr 26, 2009

Sterowent said:
I feel the urge...to know more about him now. Oh man, i was so excited when he was announced...
Now i don't have to worry about the god-mode stigma! Awesome.

This, i'll be looking into his absurd combos soon and finding the %. He's definitely one of my favorite characters in B+.

Plum · Apr 26, 2009

Veril said:
This, i'll be looking into his absurd combos soon and finding the %. He's definitely one of my favorite characters in B+.

He has also become one of my favorite characters to fight.

Playing against him as Samus is a blast. The moment he gets past the wall of projectiles/Zair he is free to abuse her poor options from up close, but he can't do anything if Samus can keep him away; it becomes a test as to who can abuse each other's weaknesses.

Xzax Kasrani · Apr 28, 2009

M2K plays Brawl+ but mains Ike......

MK isn't top 2 in Brawl+ due to the amount of lag and time his moves takes. He can **** in air but Marth and Luigi are better then MK imo.

Tornado, Up B and Dsmash aren't nearly as good anymore

Change the title from MK Plus to MK Minus lolololol

CountKaiser · Apr 28, 2009

Marth has great range, but can't really go on the ofeensive like MK can.

Luigi, however, can, and I've always thought him to be ridonculous. Though the only thing broken about him is nair, he doesn't really ahve disjointed hitboxes, just one with high priority.

Veril · Apr 28, 2009

xzax1337 said:
MK isn't top 2 in Brawl+ due to the amount of lag and time his moves takes. He can **** in air but Marth and Luigi are better then MK imo.

What are you smoking?

Rocann · Apr 28, 2009

b+ is an opportunity for xzax to say that his main isn't the best anymore so he doesn't feel as bad about losing. he's still easily one of the best.

I played m2k a lot, playing his ike was fun (we split matches, he's amazing...) but yeah he didn't play mk

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