Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

MK26 · Apr 20, 2009

EDITEDIT:

The Cape said:
Starters:
Battlefield (BF)
Final Destination (FD)
Smashville (SV)
Pokemon Stadium 2 (PS2)
Yoshi's Island: Brawl (YI:B)

Counterpick:
Wario Ware (WW)
Brinstar (BS)
Delphino Plaza (DP)
SSE Jungle (SSE)
Rainbow Cruise (RC)

The Cape said:
CP/Ban List (for TOs to add other stages)

Mansion
Orpheon
Lylat
Castle Siege
Skyworld (fix hitlag)
Japes
PS1
Halberd

Basically extra stages that could be CPs, but should be decided on by the TO and not be "standard".

END EDITEDIT

EDIT:

Bionic Sonic said:
5.0 RC1 Final Results

Starter

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island Brawl
Pokemon Stadium 2
Wario Ware
Wifi Waiting Room*

Counterpick

Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Battleship Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Luigi's Mansion
Green Greens
Pictochat
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Corneria
Rainbow Cruise

Counterpick/Banned

Distant Planet**

Banned

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1
Norfair
Green Hill Zone
Mario Circuit
Bridge of Eldin
Spear Pillar
Port Town Aero Dive
The Summit
Pirate Ship
Yoshi's Island Melee
Onett
Big Blue
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2
Rumble Falls
New Pork City
Skyworld
75m
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Shadow Moses Island
Temple

*Wifi Waiting Room was voted into the Starter/Counterpick category, though only 6 stages made it into the Starter category. An odd number of stages is required for the Stage Striking process so Wifi Waiting Room was moved into Starter
**There was an indecisive vote for Distant Planet so it is up to the TOs to decide whether or not Distant Planet will be Counterpick or Banned at their tournament.

END EDIT

ORIGINAL POST STARTS HERE:

With the release of the SBR Ruleset v2.0, I thought it would be a good time to focus on stages in Brawl+, and since there has been little (if any) discussion on an official stage list, without further ado i present

The Completely Unofficial Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion and Recommended Stage List ~~v1.0~~ v2.0!!!

This thread is for discussion of a tournament-standard Brawl+ ruleset, specifically about stages. It includes my preliminary stage list, which is by no means official, nor a requirement for tournament, competitive, or friendly play. This list is merely a suggestion, and will inevitably change with modifications suggested by the brawl+ community.

The Brawl+ scene has been blessed with the Level Freezer and Deadlands codes, which have supplied us with 3 new neutral stages (at least for singles play). If you don't know which they are, either you've been sleeping under a rock for the past 6 months or you haven't mustered up the courage to enter the vast untamed jungle of Smash Hackers and the Workshop. Unfurtunately, for every new neutral Brawl+ gets, it seems at least 3 counterpicks have been moved to the 'B&' section of the stage list. Though this is more conservative, it is also slightly more competitive. In other words, this list is not recommended for free-for-alls or group play, unless your friends are major-league hardcore.

Did I mention that this is not official?

EDIT FOR UPDATE:

UNOFFICIAL Stage List
Neutral
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Smashville
WarioWare (singles)/Wifi Waiting Room (doubles)

Counterpick
Delfino Plaza
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium
Castle Siege
Wifi Waiting Room (singles)/WarioWare (doubles)

Counterpick/Banned
Skyworld
Luigi's Mansion
PictoChat
Jungle Japes
Norfair
Green Greens
Distant Planet
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Onett
Corneria
Pirate Ship

Banned
Mushroomy Kingdom
Mario Circuit
Mario Bros.
75m
Rumble Falls
Bridge of Eldin
Temple
Spear Pillar
Port Town Aero Dive
Big Blue
New Pork City
Summit
Flat Zone 2
Shadow Moses Island
Green Hill Zone
Hanenbow

(Note: the C/B section is intended to be in order, meaning that you pick a cutoff between two stages, and above that cutoff are the counterpicks and below are the banned stages.

Nidtendofreak · Apr 20, 2009

Pirate Ship should be Counter.

It already is in vBrawl, why wouldn't it be in Brawl+?

cman · Apr 20, 2009

Why is norfair banned? The no ASL reduces one of the problems with the stage. If the pillars of flame could be removed, then it would be a great stage.

Also, I think a slowed down version of Big Blue is a contender for a counterpick. It doesn't have any walls, and the walk off edge isn't camp-able. If it's slowed down enough that character's have just enough time to get up from a trip, then I think it would be a decent stage. Opinions?

Port Town Aero Dive with toned down kb from the cars would be a good stage as well.

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

didn't we also freeze spear pillar? i think that would be an ok CP...

also, as long as we're talking B+ (which means we can pretty much change anything) can't we change a banned stages to make them CP?

i know there have already been suggestions on Distant Planet, Skyworld (not sure), Big Blue (again, not sure), and Port Town.

also, pretty sure Norfair is still CP in vBrawl.

also also, what about an edit to the Sumit for grabbale ledges, no transition, breakable platform either a) stays broken or b) can't be broken, no falling icicle, and the platform on the left doesn't fall. just some ideas....

Almas · Apr 20, 2009

I personally believe that, as Brawl and thus Brawl+ is a game built around counterpicks, the first game in a set is quite possibly the most crucial factor behind victory.

Certain maps, like Final Destination, are considered to be Neutral because of the lack of important features, despite the fact that many characters have a clear advantage on it (for example, Falco has few maps which are stronger than FD for him). This map coming up randomly in the first round of a set can change the outcome of the entire thing, which is certainly not what should be aimed for.

As such, I think the first game of a set should be decided using a Strikethrough method from a very refined choice of about 5 stages. Say... Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, and Stadium 2.

bobson · Apr 20, 2009

WHY ON EARTH IS DISTANT PLANET BANNED?
There is nothing wrong with this stage, yet EVERYONE assumes it's an auto-ban for some reason beyond me. Someone please explain this phenomenon to me.

MK26 · Apr 20, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
Pirate Ship should be Counter.

It already is in vBrawl, why wouldn't it be in Brawl+?

I really dislike water camping. However, that problem is minimized in doubles, so i made it cp there

cman said:
Why is norfair banned? The no ASL reduces one of the problems with the stage. If the pillars of flame could be removed, then it would be a great stage.

Also, I think a slowed down version of Big Blue is a contender for a counterpick. It doesn't have any walls, and the walk off edge isn't camp-able. If it's slowed down enough that character's have just enough time to get up from a trip, then I think it would be a decent stage. Opinions?

Port Town Aero Dive with toned down kb from the cars would be a good stage as well.

Norfair - camping on the bottom...once again, less of a problem in doubles; also, it's a pretty big stage, very condusive to just running away
Big Blue - seems like a decent idea...as long as the stage can't gay you
PTAD - regardless of the cars' kb, you're fighting the stage as much as your opponent - there are also several points where you and your opponent simply sit on opposite sides of the screen, waiting fo rthe cars to pass by

FrozenPopo said:
didn't we also freeze spear pillar? i think that would be an ok CP...

also, as long as we're talking B+ (which means we can pretty much change anything) can't we change a banned stages to make them CP?

i know there have already been suggestions on Distant Planet, Skyworld (not sure), Big Blue (again, not sure), and Port Town.

also, pretty sure Norfair is still CP in vBrawl.

also also, what about an edit to the Sumit for grabbale ledges, no transition, breakable platform either a) stays broken or b) can't be broken, no falling icicle, and the platform on the left doesn't fall. just some ideas....

Spear Pillar - freezing doesnt get rid of the Cave of Immortality, and a camera edit will only give a really, really tiny bottom blastzone
Distant Planet (EDIT: also applies to bobson)- i like the stage, but it just doesnt seem good for competitive play, what with the walkoff (bthrow camping etc) and the bulborb and the items spawning
Skyworld - see DP, except with Cave of Immortality and massive stage gays with those breakable bottom platforms
Big Blue and PTAD i already talked about
Summit - is that even possible?!? O_O

Almas said:
I personally believe that, as Brawl and thus Brawl+ is a game built around counterpicks, the first game in a set is quite possibly the most crucial factor behind victory.

Certain maps, like Final Destination, are considered to be Neutral because of the lack of important features, despite the fact that many characters have a clear advantage on it (for example, Falco has few maps which are stronger than FD for him). This map coming up randomly in the first round of a set can change the outcome of the entire thing, which is certainly not what should be aimed for.

As such, I think the first game of a set should be decided using a Strikethrough method from a very refined choice of about 5 stages. Say... Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, and Stadium 2.

Did i say random select? If I did, I meant stage strike. If I didn't, lrn2rd
lol jk

And what makes Deadlands Mansion any less of a Final Destination than FD itself?

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

bobson said:
WHY ON EARTH IS DISTANT PLANET BANNED?
There is nothing wrong with this stage, yet EVERYONE assumes it's an auto-ban for some reason beyond me. Someone please explain this phenomenon to me.

walk off stage and random chance of getting eaten by bublin.... both of which we can remove with B+ (permanent rain and bublin doesn't eat you)

bobson · Apr 20, 2009

FrozenPopo said:
walk off stage and random chance of getting eaten by bublin.... both of which we can remove with B+ (permanent rain and bublin doesn't eat you)

Walkoff is avoidable. Moreso than walkoffs on Castle Siege and Delfino, both arguable starters.

If you get eaten by the Bulborb in a serious match you are an idiot or your opponent somehow managed to throw you into it (and there aren't many moves with a trajectory that works for that). It's arguably the most obvious hazard in the game.

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

MK26 said:
Summit - is that even possible?!? O_O

god i hope so.

edit:

i really like the idea of DP as a CP, but we need to eliminate the items, evil bumbin (for those that complain) and I FEEL that having the water poring down to eliminate the walk off portion (for cg complainers).

Eternal Yoshi · Apr 20, 2009

Hmm.... what if we freeze the Summit? That would elliminate the water, gimpfish, icicles, breakaway floors, random veggies, and gravity altercations with one stone. Or is the lack of ledges THAT big of an issue? Remember that Poke Floats in Melee had NO ledges.

It MIGHT have a chance to be CP.

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

Eternal Yoshi said:
Hmm.... what if we freeze the Summit? That would elliminate the water, gimpfish, spikes, and gravity altercation with one stone. Or is the lack of ledges THAT big of an issue? Remember that Poke Floats in Melee had NO ledges.

It MIGHT have a chance to be CP.

i'm just thinking certain characters like ivy and oli would have a pretty big disadvantage with the lack of ledges.

Asdioh · Apr 20, 2009

Wouldn't the constant rain on Distant Planet in effect make the stage extremely tiny? That would be...interesting...I guess.

What exactly about Skyworld makes it banned in regular barlw? I think it has potential to be a counterpick if you make the platforms..invincible? I'm sure that's possible...

I agree Norfair would be better without the pillars of fire that come from the background..those are ridiculous. If there's no way to remove those, then I'd rather see the stage stay as it is, rather than frozen. The lava is what makes it interesting.

Is the "cave of immortality" truly broken on Spear Pillar? I see it being annoying, but not game-breaking. Also, you know how sometimes part of the top level is broken off on that stage? Is there a way to make either the left, center, or right of that stage permanently broken off? That would reduce some of the cave of immortality problems.

A slowed down version of Big Blue...that would be pretty insane.

I personally believe the Klaptrap on Jungle Japes should not be as hazardous as it is. That will make the stage much more enjoyable for me. I know it's on a set timer, but still...

I don't really care much for Summit. It would be interesting to see I guess.

bobson · Apr 20, 2009

FrozenPopo said:
i really like the idea of DP as a CP, but we need to eliminate the items, evil bumbin (for those that complain) and I FEEL that having the water poring down to eliminate the walk off portion (for cg complainers).

What, so it's a fine stage, just as long as we get rid of everything that makes it unique?

MK26 said:
Distant Planet (EDIT: also applies to bobson)- i like the stage, but it just doesnt seem good for competitive play, what with the walkoff (bthrow camping etc) and the bulborb and the items spawning

"It just doesn't seem competitive" isn't a reason to ban a stage. And bthrow camping doesn't work because your opponent can, y'know, just not come to you. The rain will force you off eventually.

Summit can never be a CP because the stage layout almost forces circle camping at high-level play. Same for Spear Pillar.

Eternal Yoshi · Apr 20, 2009

Ah, I forgot about that. Oh well.

Making all the platforms invincible in Skyworld would cause a circle camping problem.

The only way Skyworld would be legal is if we can modify which platforms will be on the stage so that only the ones that are ledges spawn.

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

Eternal Yoshi said:
Ah, I forgot about that. Oh well.

Making all the platforms invincible in Skyworld would cause a circle camping problem.

The only way Skyworld would be legal is if we can modify which platforms will be on the stage so that only the ones that are ledges spawn.

i think the recommendation was just have the main platform spawn with invincibility (can't be broken) and have the others just stay clouds.

cman · Apr 20, 2009

MK26 said:
I really dislike water camping. However, that problem is minimized in doubles, so i made it cp there

Norfair - camping on the bottom...once again, less of a problem in doubles; also, it's a pretty big stage, very condusive to just running away
Big Blue - seems like a decent idea...as long as the stage can't gay you
PTAD - regardless of the cars' kb, you're fighting the stage as much as your opponent - there are also several points where you and your opponent simply sit on opposite sides of the screen, waiting fo rthe cars to pass by

Distant Planet (EDIT: also applies to bobson)- i like the stage, but it just doesnt seem good for competitive play, what with the walkoff (bthrow camping etc) and the bulborb and the items spawning

You have provided nothing but terrible reasons which basically sum up to "I don't really wanna..."

Provided that the modifications mentioned are made, then you have given no reason to keep any of these stages banned. Try harder or move them to counterpick

CloneHat · Apr 20, 2009

Why is frozen Spear Pillar banned?

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

i agree that PTAD's cars kill to easily, but thats a simple edit.

i'd like to see DP, PTAD, Norfair, possibly big blue, SP, and (by the grace of god) the summit moved up to CP. i know most of those might not be able to be helped, but some of them can be and i think we should take the initiative to 'fix' them for competitive B+ play.

Nidtendofreak · Apr 20, 2009

Big Blue slowed down would allow even more circling around the Falcon Flier (or whatever it's called). It simply doesn't work as a tournament level stage.

Watercamping is not a legit reason not to be a CP.

Distant Planet is PERFECTLY fine for tournaments, both in vBrawl and Brawl+.

Norfair is fine, particularly in Brawl+

PTAD would be fine once you nerf the cars a tad.

Summit can never be legal: no matter what you do, there will ALWAYS be circling.

JCaesar · Apr 20, 2009

Good stuff, this is almost identical to the stage list I came up with for the B+ tourney I'm running at Apex. The only difference is I'm leaving Norfair on CP. I can give you my reasons why I don't think it's so bad if you want them but there are plenty of other people here doing just that.

JCaesar007 said:
Stages:
The stage for the first match will be decided by stage strike among the neutrals. Players are allowed 1 ban for the set.

Neutrals:

Final Destination

Battlefield

Smashville

Yoshi's Island

Luigi's Mansion

Pokemon Stadium 2

Wario Ware

Counterpicks:

Lylat Cruise

Pokemon Stadium

Halberd

Delfino

Frigate Orpheon

Brinstar

Castle Siege

Jungle Japes

Rainbow Cruise

Norfair

Pictochat

.

Man of Popsicle · Apr 20, 2009

CloneHat said:
Why is frozen Spear Pillar banned?

Wut? A cave?
Couldn't possibly be that.

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

ugh, fine.... what's the code so i can just freeze the summit then?

MK26 · Apr 20, 2009

bobson said:
"It just doesn't seem competitive" isn't a reason to ban a stage. And bthrow camping doesn't work because your opponent can, y'know, just not come to you. The rain will force you off eventually.

And say your opponent is...Pikachu. Great bthrow, spammy projectile, fast. You plan to just wait until the rain? That just promotes camping. Attack him and risk losing a stock over a stupid mistake? Nuh-uh. There's no single big problem with DP, it's a bunch of little things that i dislike about it. Mind you, DP is very, very borderline, and is one of the first ones i am willing to change (especially with the help of codes).

cman said:
You have provided nothing but terrible reasons which basically sum up to "I don't really wanna..."

Provided that the modifications mentioned are made, then you have given no reason to keep any of these stages banned. Try harder or move them to counterpick

In their present state, i consider them bannable - i never said we cant change them...

JCaesar007 said:
Good stuff, this is almost identical to the stage list I came up with for the B+ tourney I'm running at Apex. The only difference is I'm leaving Norfair on CP. I can give you my reasons why I don't think it's so bad if you want them but there are plenty of other people here doing just that.

i rofl'd at the list. I like norfair, but i find it's too easy to camp or run away when you only have to worry about one opponent

======

Does anybody have any input on corneria or green greens? Are they in the right place, banned in singles but cp in doubles?

FrozenHobo · Apr 20, 2009

with GGs can't we just remove the blocks to help eliminate camping? i'm not sure about corneria but i think if you edit the ships that fly by/the main laser it could be CP....

Metatitan · Apr 20, 2009

green greens and corneria banned? why? can ddd still infinite on those or something? they were perfectly fine cps in melee (since b+ is closer to melee than it is to vbrawl)

Frozt · Apr 20, 2009

Corneria shouldn't be banned either from singles or doubles, it's a perfect counterpick in b+ as it was in melee, maybe if the arwings and the great fox could be modified so they can't shoot at all it'd be better. (Oh and spawn the stage without the great fox's guns on the bottom, ovbious reasons)

Teronist09 · Apr 21, 2009

Has anyone done anything with the corneria size mod? afaik the only problem with corneria as is is that it's too small. Also, could size mods be made for every course? If so and depending on how they work I'd like to try them on several other courses, Onett, Flatzone and Mushroomy in particular.

Can't certain cars be removed from Big Blue? If so getting rid of the flyer alltogether would probably be best, unless it's speed can be modified separate. GG woudl probably be better if blocks didn't spawn.

What could we do with Skyworld short of freezing it? I always liked it except for the ridiculous stage spiking. I think if we could make all of the platforms unbreakable so edgegaurding isn't so easy, and have the top 2 platforms and the one on the left always broken it would be fine as a cp.

Swordplay · Apr 21, 2009

We'll I think norfair can make it to CP.

I think deadlands is boarderline CP

I think Wario Ware is CP because it is so small.

And I think bridge of eldin could possible be CP if you implement the code that removes the goblins that blow up stage.

But the stage is big. So its tough to see it being used in 1v1. However I could see it being used in 2v2 as a counter pick.
(debatable of course)

FrozenHobo · Apr 21, 2009

Swordplay said:
We'll I think norfair can make it to CP.

And I think bridge of eldin could possible be CP if you implement the code that removes the goblins that blow up stage.

excluding these statements everything you said is fail.

Swordplay · Apr 21, 2009

get off your high chair FP its called an opinion. It's what I REALLY think.

FrozenHobo · Apr 21, 2009

what exactly is NOT neutral about deadlands? i could almost see you complaining about the left and right death boundaries on Wario Ware, but even those can be changed.

Swordplay · Apr 21, 2009

I think its a little big for a neutral.

If I was going to play on a setup similar to that I'd choose PS2

FrozenHobo · Apr 21, 2009

its not that much larger than FD.

Plum · Apr 21, 2009

Another big problem with Spear Pillar is the huge possibility for circle camping.
For those of you who don't know what circle camping is, it is another way of essentially stalling the match out by running away from a slower opponent or abusing the stage's layout in such a manner that you can constantly run away.

Okay, so you could say stalling is banned, but circle camping is one of those things that can easily sit on the line of whether it is stalling or not depending on how you are doing it.

Imagine facing a Fox, who takes a stock and then runs away. Fox is the 3rd fastest character in the game right? So unless you are Captain Falcon or Sonic you have to hope of catching up to him. Even worse, he has a fast reflector which will stop you from tossing projectiles at him in order to force him to come at you. He can also negate the whole stalling rule by shooting lasers at you while he runs. Technically he is still engaging you in combat, he is just doing it from afar in a campy manner and avoiding close range fighting. Nothing you can really do about it.

I love Corneria, but I will admit that it stems from me being a G&W main in vBrawl. As it stands, it has very tight blast lines and a wall. In my opinion both of those really only push it to a counterpick. The tight blast lines are I think pretty self explanatory as to why that would be counterpick. The wall isn't that much of an issue simply because it is easily avoidable and puts the player who wants to use the wall at great risk by being so close to the side blast line. At this point my only reason to say it does warrant a ban is because of the hazards. The other two reasons could be called for a ban on a conservative list and I would put it in a counterpick/ban section. However the hazards are completely unpredictable. Yes there are other stages with similar hazards like Pirate Ship or Halberd but with those stages the hazards are always visible on screen and clearly seen from a mile away. Halberd's hazards happen at any time, but they will attack a predetermined character. With Corneria however there are times when you can't even see the ships and you can never know exactly where or when they are going to fire. The real problem comes in when the lasers actually have the power to kill. In my opinion it just leaves too much to a factor of luck, even for a counterpick.
I love the stage as a counterpick but I do believe that the hazards push it over the edge to warrant a ban. That said, I would like to see a frozen stage.

With Green Greens, again I love it because I am a vBrawl G&W main. I do see the problem with the falling blocks. The bomb blocks are random and can fall at any time and they do have the potential to kill at early percents. So here I'm kind of torn up about the stage. I can see why it would be banned, but I just love the stage. I don't know what is possible as far as making it viable. It could be frozen, or even if the blocks became a controllable element (as in falling at a predetermined rate, or removing bombs) then it would be a nice stage. My only problem with freezing it is that I like that the walls are destroyable but come back without being a problematic wall.

I don't see why Norfair is banned. It is easy to camp due to the stage layout, but the hazards prevent it from being a prolong or dominant strategy. At the same time the hazards are avoidable without being a real threat until high percents anyway.

Swordplay · Apr 21, 2009

And I already thought FD already gave advantages to certain characters. (falco, diddy)

But that is just my opinion again.

BoE is one of my favorite stages so I'm interested in what you think of my idea of opening it up to CP for doubles if the no goblins code is implemented. Even though its a walk off I do see some doubles CP potential.

I mean its not to big for doubles and without CG's there really isn't any gay **** that can go on there except for camping on the edge of the stage which is dangerous in itself.

FrozenHobo · Apr 21, 2009

i do agree on BoE being CP now that falco/DDD no longer have their dthrow chains. i think having it for 2v2s would be fine.

Frozt · Apr 21, 2009

Frozen green greens could make a cp stage in singles and neutral for doubles because of its layout and size. By frozen I mean no blocks, no bomb blocks, no apples and no wind.

MasterRaichu · Apr 21, 2009

I'm having trouble understanding why in this list that Jungle Japes is a counter pick while Pirate Ship (frozen) is banned. There is nothing competitive about getting trapped in fast moving water. Any smashfests that I've played Brawl+ in have had Jungle Japes turned off for this reason. Unless they find a way to deactivate swimming, I would have to say that Jungle Japes should be banned. At least the water in pirate ship isn't so fast-moving that you can't escape it.

Also, with larger stage/death boundaries codes coming out, I'm voting for the larger Corneria as CP borderline neutral. Corneria is way too small otherwise.

Veril · Apr 21, 2009

FrozenPopo said:
god i hope so.

edit:

i really like the idea of DP as a CP, but we need to eliminate the items, evil bumbin (for those that complain) and I FEEL that having the water poring down to eliminate the walk off portion (for cg complainers).

The rain should be constant. Why the h*** remove the bulborb?! If you get eaten by it, 1... rofl, 2... no Johns. You practically have to try to get eaten by it. Its much less dangerous than most of the hazards on pictochat. The items really aren't a problem. They're bottle caps, you have to use attacks to access them, and they can't really be called random. They only pop up in a few spots and they don't break the game in any way. its not like pokeballs and bobombs are just dropping from the sky. The bottle caps are fine.

I love Distant Planet. CP if the rain gets fixed. Its definitely one of the coolest stages in the game.

Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

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