• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Pit Matchup Discussion - Ice Climbers

Coffee™

I need it....
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
2,205
Location
SFL
If you're going to talk about the matchup then do so, but do not just post useless information like "dont get grabbed" or "kill nana" or I'll start infracting people.
 

Blistering Speed

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,709
Location
Dot Dot Dash Dot
Pit does well against IC's. He can outcamp them, which leads them to approach, which 9/10 will be a desynched blizzard which Pit can simply retreat to arrow or the higher risk/reward wait for an aerial interception opportunity. Pit's got swords and he should use them as such, IC's disjoints are no slouches either but Pit has the overall spacing game to keep them out. In short, Pit has the capacity to 'not get grabbed'. Pit also has the ability to gimp semi effectively (standard fair, F Air's and B Air's and onstage F Smash), try and place them in a disadvantageous position below the stage to force them to B Up, as Side B is much more manouverable and doesn't leave Nana as vulnerable.

I'll add more if I'm still bored enough later.
 

SkyRay

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Cedar Hills, Utah
I disagree, i always end up being the one having to approach, after they start sending their ice, i may go in for a glide attack or a forward air, or power-shield up to them for an attack or grab of some sort, which usually ends up getting me punished.

I have a real problem with this match-up and i can't seem to get around it. Once you have Nana dead its usually easy to use aerials to get Popo off the stage and keep him off with arrows or edge steal if you need to.

I seem to have luck with Pit's AR and smashes the most, tilts usually only hit one IC which usually gets me punished one way or another, but as long as you can keep them both under control you shouldn't have this problem.

The only thing I can suggest is to try to keep them in the air, and use a lot of well spaced aerials.
I almost never try to grab when both IC's are still out, in case of being punished by Nana (usually) or Popo (if you grab Nana on accident). Most of the time if you do grab, you should be able to throw quickly to avoid being punished, I usually use Pit's up-throw (the most powerful, and puts an IC far enough away you can either go in for a follow up, or retreat and come back in.

I've just learned to try to be aggressive with aerials, and careful on the ground, since hit and run strategies haven't seemed to work for me.

This is more of me just ranting instead of offering advice, but I hope it helps anyways.

EDIT: I just remembered that short hop d-airs work pretty well against them.
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
correct me if im wrong but isnt Fthrow pits strongest throw, not Uthrow
and pit can outcamp IC's between arrows and reflectors or just shielding haha
 

SkyRay

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Cedar Hills, Utah
Its pretty hard to get off an arrow in between IC's ice if you are just shielding or spot-dodging, but i'm not positive.

and i'm pretty sure Uthrow does ~11%, while Fthrow does ~9%, i can't find the thread that carries this information right now, but Uthrow also has the most knock back, and Fthrow has the least, which makes it good for chain grabbing on heavier characters.
 

yummynbeefy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
2,150
Location
DEY TUK ER JERBS!!! (Tampa, FL)
ok i have some iceys experience and i got something to say

arrows shouldnt be used as much as you think in this matchup i usually use them only for forcing an approach and gimping mirror sheild should only be used if you read the blizzard correctly otherwise it will get you grabbed which obviously is baddddd wingdashing is more useful as your spacing is absolutely CRUTIAL if you dont want to get grabbed

jabs are one of your best friends in your matchup if you ask me bolth of them separate popo and nana weak bairs , nairs, and uairs also are great for separating the climbers angel ring just doesnt get the job done and is just asking to get grabbed because of the ending lag

the main goals of this matchup
-SPACING!!!
-DONT GET GRABBED!!!
-GIMP NANA!!!

if you follow those rules its a pretty easy matchup

well thats all i can put for now if i think of anything else about this matchp ill post here
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
Its pretty hard to get off an arrow in between IC's ice if you are just shielding or spot-dodging, but i'm not positive.

and i'm pretty sure Uthrow does ~11%, while Fthrow does ~9%, i can't find the thread that carries this information right now, but Uthrow also has the most knock back, and Fthrow has the least, which makes it good for chain grabbing on heavier characters.
hop your arrows or if you reflect the ice wont it cancel the next barrage which will give youtime to get off an arrow?
theres no way fthrow has the least knockback, because at high percents thats the throw i use to ko with, your prolly right about the damage though stiiiiiiilllllllll fthrow is > then uthrow in almost every situation that i can think of
 

Coffee™

I need it....
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
2,205
Location
SFL
correct me if im wrong but isnt Fthrow pits strongest throw, not Uthrow
Uthrow is stronger than Fthrow and a better move in general at higher percents.

and pit can outcamp IC's between arrows and reflectors or just shielding haha
He cannot really camp them with Arrows and Reflectors. Some arrows once in a while are good as they go through Blizzard but AR is the only reflector which actually reflects Ice Blocks and they dont even go that far. Mshield reflects them only if you are really near to the ICs if they use it, otherwise it basically eats them up, its ******** like that.


stiiiiiiilllllllll fthrow is > then uthrow in almost every situation that i can think of
I don't see the point of Fthrow after like 60-70%, Dthrow and Uthrow are all better after this point unless you are specifically trying to get your opponent offstage.

I disagree, i always end up being the one having to approach, after they start sending their ice, i may go in for a glide attack or a forward air, or power-shield up to them for an attack or grab of some sort, which usually ends up getting me punished.
Stop approaching when you shouldnt. Pit doesn't have to approach them directly and if he does Glide attack is your best option for doing so, but you have to angle it correctly to avoid getting grabbed.

I seem to have luck with Pit's AR and smashes the most, tilts usually only hit one IC which usually gets me punished one way or another, but as long as you can keep them both under control you shouldn't have this problem.
AR, Dair, Inf. Jab, Dtilt, Glair are all really good in this matchup.

I almost never try to grab when both IC's are still out, in case of being punished by Nana (usually) or Popo (if you grab Nana on accident). Most of the time if you do grab, you should be able to throw quickly to avoid being punished, I usually use Pit's up-throw (the most powerful, and puts an IC far enough away you can either go in for a follow up, or retreat and come back in.
Grabbing them is good, but only if you throw immediately. Uthrow and Bthrow are your best separaters here (wow we actually found a use for bthrow)


EDIT: I just remembered that short hop d-airs work pretty well against them.
SH Dair/ FH Dair to ART works wonders.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Remember these moves, for they can be the key to seperating them gay ICs: Spinning Bow Jab, U-tilt(if they are close to u), SH-N-airs, arrows

Okay, to fight the eskimoes, remember those 4 moves up there, for they are your main tools in seperating em if u want to lead the match in your favor. When I mean by that, I mean this:

Spinning Bow Jab: Outprioritizes ICs Squall (Side-B) most of the time, hurts reckless ICs who is more concerned at getting grabs than protecting themselves, and can knock away ice blocks without Pit getting hurt (unless you time it wrong, but what's 1-4 damage gonna do)

U-tilt: Some may not think of it the right way, but I see it here. If a reckless ICs is right in front of you, missed their dashgrab, use U-tilt. It's like Pit's fastest attack ever with its first small hitbox, being the bow out at Frame 2 (when not counting his WoI 1 frame), and it does more damage than Usmash.

SH N-air: A pretty good approach, praying the ICs arent good at Shielding this attack, but considering that there are 2 ICs, the capability of seperating them should be somewhat easy, while applying pressure too.
I constantly use this to pressure the ICs, and hoping when they get hurt, they seperate then i can take advantage and try to kill one of the ICs before they come back together.

Arrows: What's a Pit without arrows? Okay jk, bad example, but certainly not a good Pit. Anyways, this is the only move (besides Angel ring, but not Mirror Shield) that can really stop Blizzards without really putting yourself in danger. Against Ice blocks, you may have to jump though, since that wont stop the blocks from getting towards you.

Do NOT ledgecamp often, for the Ice blocks (especially desnch ones) can force you to approach. Use SH N-airs a bit for approach. Though the ICs are kinda small, try SH N-air to U-tilt if u r right on them.

-My post from AIB-
"I got info on the IC matchup, Haven, for later on.
Remember these moves, for they can be the key to seperating them gay ICs: Spinning Bow Jab, U-tilt(if they are close to u), SH-N-airs.

My 4 main moves are SH N-airs, Arrows, Spinning Bow Jab, and U-tilt. After seperating them, do what u can to keep em seperated.
Ledgecamping is bad considering the ice blocks of theirs. Spinning Bow jab almost always outprioritizes the ICs Side-B move.
More to come soon...
Oh, And AVOID FD AT ALL TIMES! My CP is Norfair."

Well anyways, we all know to avoid Final Destination against them. If they do try to do the D-throw to F-air spike to Ice Block, learn the timing, Tech off the ground and take back control.

In fact, the ICs can barely outrange the spinning Bow Jab. From what I experienced, only Fsmash and Blizzard can pass it.
Against their D-air, angle yourself NOT to be directly under the ICs, and U-air them. Edgehog when needed, and watch for a sign of them using Side-B to recover (usually when they are high above platform level) which u could probably Mirror Shield em.

Again with stages, pick Norfair or some stage with small platforms, OR stages with tilting or unstraight platforms to mess up the Ice blocks, so they will slide back and away from you.

If you wanna use D-tilt to get reckless ICs in the air, go for it, then try seperating em, while they are in the air.

I find the matchup to be either 55-45 Pit or 60-40 Pit. The ICs can barely outrange us, but we can pressure them quite well (even though we cant ledgecamp due to ice blocks) and gimp them easily compared to many other characters.
 

Coffee™

I need it....
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
2,205
Location
SFL
Arrows go through Blizzard and Mirror Shield stops Ice Blocks and reflects Blizzard. There is no reason you cant ledgecamp them. Also, Brinstar is a pretty good cp stage vs them.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Arrows go through Blizzard and Mirror Shield stops Ice Blocks and reflects Blizzard. There is no reason you cant ledgecamp them. Also, Brinstar is a pretty good cp stage vs them.
It's not blizzard that I'm worried about.
Do keep in mind that there are more ice blocks than arrows. The only thing an arrow can do to an ice block is push it the other way (does not hurt the ICs unless u reflected em), while the other ice block can just hit you.
If the Ice blocks can slide off the stage, that's where ledgecamping is bad, especially against Desynched blocks that gives u little time to get back up. Mirror Shield just cancels out the other ice block that hits it, too.
So basically, Desynched ice blocks, when timed right, can hit us before we can use our Mirror Shield.
And Brinstar is a good stage too, i forgot about it considering how i really dont play on that stage.
 

SkyRay

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Cedar Hills, Utah
all u gotta do is ledgecamp...this wins the match..i beat lain's ICs in friendlies at whobo. enuff saiid.
This doesn't mean anything, not all IC players are the same, its possible he wasn't handling the situation correct at all, where most good IC's would. He could have been sandbagging, most people do in friendlies at tourney's.
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Ledgecamp all day. Ice blocks do like... 2% fresh, so they don't really matter, and if he throws one you get a guaranteed arrow on him which does more. You win the exchange no matter what. Also, platform camp. They can't grab you from the air, so forcing them to approach from above or below is a good thing.

Nair is really good for separating the climbers. If they spotdodge or shield, nana's tends to come out a little bit later, meaning a nair will often hit just one of them. Gimps also work wonders for killing one climber or the other, or simply forcing a whole lot of damage to one of them as they continually throw that mofo up trying to get him back to the stage.

I consider this a pretty hard counter, probably around 70:30 Pit's advantage. I beat lain's IC's too, in tournament even. *high fives kown*
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
This doesn't mean anything, not all IC players are the same, its possible he wasn't handling the situation correct at all, where most good IC's would. He could have been sandbagging, most people do in friendlies at tourney's.
Sure, lain may have been sandbagging, but he really doesn't tend to do that. And just because someone else might have played differently doesn't mean there's really anything IC's can do to combat ledgecamping. I can think of any number of reasons why it utterly destroys them, most of which have already been listed in this thread. Burden of proof lies on you if you wanna say it doesn't. :)
 

yummynbeefy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
2,150
Location
DEY TUK ER JERBS!!! (Tampa, FL)
i dont think its a hard counter but i do believe we are somewhat in our advantage if we space correctly, gimp nana, and dont get grabbed hell i just beat an ice climber on the ladder like that
 

Sniper X

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Madison, Alabama
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but when you mirror shield IC's ice blocks, generally what happens is you reflect the first one into the other so they just cancel each other out. At least that's how it works if there are both IC's but if you're able to get rid of nana feel free to reflect ice block since there will now only be one :D
 

momochuu

Smash Legend
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
12,868
NNID
Momochuu
3DS FC
2380-3247-9039
This is not a 70:30 matchup in Pit's favor. It's even or 55:45 in Pit's favor, just because he's a really campy character. Too easy to CG, Ice Block can cancel arrows and they stay out. Is Pit weak from below? It seems like he would be, considering the startup on his D-Air.

He can seperate fairly well, and has a few options of gimping Nana. Those reflectors are kinda annoying too.
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Too easy to CG, Ice Block can cancel arrows and they stay out. Is Pit weak from below? It seems like he would be, considering the startup on his D-Air.
Ease of CG does not matter in Brawl, as CG's are binary. The opponent has no input into the situation, therefore with the right amount of practice it is either guaranteed or impossible, no matter which char you're trying to do it to. Plus they can't grab you if you never touch the ground in front of him. Pit does not have to do this. Ever.

Ice blocks don't matter, and they're not blocking any arrows unless the pit that shot them has no idea how to jump then curve his arrows down.
 

KRDsonic

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Charleston, West Virginia
It's only slightly in Pit's favor, definently not 30-70 (trust me, I know 30-70 matchups for my Ice Climbers when I see them, Pit is one of the least of IC's worries)

Ice Blocks can be used to shield from arrows if done correctly in the same fashion they can be used to shield Falco's lasers, though not to the point that they stop all of the arrow spam.

Also, Ice Blocks aren't used as damage rackers, but more for keeping the opponent occupied and forcing an approach, or keeping them occupied long enough to let us get closer to the opponent.

I was kind of surprised when someone mentioned Ice Climbers approaching pit with desynced Blizzards, since that doesn't work due to Pit's arrows and reflectors. I can't speak for other people's climbers, but as far as mine go, when I'm fighting Pit I normally approach with a shield, dash attack, or Squall Hammer (which works surprisingly well against Pit, from my experiences).


Anyways, Pit does have the upper hand when it comes to spacing and range, but Ice Climbers beat Pit when it comes to close range, and I'm not just refering to grabs (I never seem to be able to grab Pit, but it doesn't matter). Ice Climbers' smashes are fast, and their Squall Hammer has great priority + speed that catches people off guard.

From what I remember of my set against Seiya at HOBO 15, I won the set by playing aggressive, using my Squall Hammer quite a bit (a lot more than I ever have before, since it worked so well as a descending approach from a short hop), and mindgaming him into thinking that getting the grab was still on my mind.

One last thing that I remembered: Pit can gimp Ice Climbers' tether Up B easily with a Bair, and Ice Climbers can gimp Pit's recovery with Ice Blocks when used correctly, so I tend to see gimps happen a lot in this matchup.

I personally think it's either 55-45, or 60-40 Pit's favor.
 

yummynbeefy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
2,150
Location
DEY TUK ER JERBS!!! (Tampa, FL)
It's only slightly in Pit's favor, definently not 30-70 (trust me, I know 30-70 matchups for my Ice Climbers when I see them, Pit is one of the least of IC's worries)

Ice Blocks can be used to shield from arrows if done correctly in the same fashion they can be used to shield Falco's lasers, though not to the point that they stop all of the arrow spam.

Also, Ice Blocks aren't used as damage rackers, but more for keeping the opponent occupied and forcing an approach, or keeping them occupied long enough to let us get closer to the opponent.

I was kind of surprised when someone mentioned Ice Climbers approaching pit with desynced Blizzards, since that doesn't work due to Pit's arrows and reflectors. I can't speak for other people's climbers, but as far as mine go, when I'm fighting Pit I normally approach with a shield, dash attack, or Squall Hammer (which works surprisingly well against Pit, from my experiences).


Anyways, Pit does have the upper hand when it comes to spacing and range, but Ice Climbers beat Pit when it comes to close range, and I'm not just refering to grabs (I never seem to be able to grab Pit, but it doesn't matter). Ice Climbers' smashes are fast, and their Squall Hammer has great priority + speed that catches people off guard.

From what I remember of my set against Seiya at HOBO 15, I won the set by playing aggressive, using my Squall Hammer quite a bit (a lot more than I ever have before, since it worked so well as a descending approach from a short hop), and mindgaming him into thinking that getting the grab was still on my mind.

One last thing that I remembered: Pit can gimp Ice Climbers' tether Up B easily with a Bair, and Ice Climbers can gimp Pit's recovery with Ice Blocks when used correctly, so I tend to see gimps happen a lot in this matchup.

I personally think it's either 55-45, or 60-40 Pit's favor.
yea i think your right its in our favor but not by very much
 

kown

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,700
Location
Pearland ,Texas
This doesn't mean anything, not all IC players are the same, its possible he wasn't handling the situation correct at all, where most good IC's would. He could have been sandbagging, most people do in friendlies at tourney's.
you dont know lain....
hes the BEST IC's EVERRRRRRRRRR...undisputed after apex..amirite?

Ledgecamp all day. Ice blocks do like... 2% fresh, so they don't really matter, and if he throws one you get a guaranteed arrow on him which does more. You win the exchange no matter what. Also, platform camp. They can't grab you from the air, so forcing them to approach from above or below is a good thing.

Nair is really good for separating the climbers. If they spotdodge or shield, nana's tends to come out a little bit later, meaning a nair will often hit just one of them. Gimps also work wonders for killing one climber or the other, or simply forcing a whole lot of damage to one of them as they continually throw that mofo up trying to get him back to the stage.

I consider this a pretty hard counter, probably around 70:30 Pit's advantage. I beat lain's IC's too, in tournament even. *high fives kown*

high five*

oh this is going to sound really obvious...but the whole point of this matchup is not to get grabbed...like no matter what anyone else says this is the correct answer.....

THAN YOUR LIKE: I KNOW THAT YOU SOB TELL ME HOW TO DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!??!?!?!

than i say: ledgecamp

than your like: oh kool kown your the best imo..

than i say: oh thnks bro im not really that good...im sure your better
 

DominusHaven

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
74
Sure, lain may have been sandbagging, but he really doesn't tend to do that. And just because someone else might have played differently doesn't mean there's really anything IC's can do to combat ledgecamping. I can think of any number of reasons why it utterly destroys them, most of which have already been listed in this thread. Burden of proof lies on you if you wanna say it doesn't. :)
Yeah he may have sandbagged, but Ledgecamping is actually useful in this match-up from what I know.. when I was fighting Swordgard that was what seemed to work best since I don't know this matchup at all.. lol

But yeah Lain for Best IC's for sure.
 

kackamee

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
3,133
Location
Charlotte NC :)
NNID
SlushCream
3DS FC
3480-3017-1332
Ledge camping is really good, but IC's have more than 1 way to stop you from doing it, mostly the proper use of desynching.
 

lain

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
4,278
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Uhm. Doctor X didn't beat me. Ever. Maybe in a friendly or something once.

I haven't seen you play brawl in like 8 months and now there's talking about beating me with PIT?!

And btw edgecamping doesn't **** IC's.

The internets r crazy.
 

kown

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,700
Location
Pearland ,Texas
how does ledge camping not beat ICs?.... what im trying to get at is that it HAS to be the pit players fault if you want to get us out of ledgecamping....
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Uhm. Doctor X didn't beat me. Ever. Maybe in a friendly or something once.

I haven't seen you play brawl in like 8 months and now there's talking about beating me with PIT?!

And btw edgecamping doesn't **** IC's.

The internets r crazy.
Told you so...

Desynch Ice blocks > Pit's ledgecamping.
Ice blocks desynched right can stop Pit from coming up and performing any of his attacks, cant even Mirror Shield before a block hits him.

This makes me play aggressive against the ICs considering how ledgecamping could just usually gets me killed.
Actually, this might be one of the few matchups where I place SH N-airs as one of my main moves against a matchup.

Coulda sworn i put a small list up somewhere, but anyways, aside from the ice blocks beating Pit's ledgecamping...

Angel Ring and Arrows > Blizzard
Ice Blocks > Arrows
Spinning Bow Jab > Squall (Most times it will outprioritize the move. On occasions it will cancel each other out)

This is one of the few matchups that I would rather be aggressive than defensive, for pressuring the ICs is what I'd want to do, especially if i want to seperate em, and demoralize em to victory. Of course, you gotta be a bit careful of how the ICs player moves around, and avoid the grabs.
Pit's good at seperating the ICs with the SH N-airs and spinning bow jab alone, and add that with Pit's excellent edgeguarding and gimping, making him slightly good against the ICs, but it mainly is about learning how each player plays to get them where u want em.

I place the matchup at 55-45 Pit and 60-40 Pit is the highest taken, but rather not be completely biased.
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Uhm. Doctor X didn't beat me. Ever. Maybe in a friendly or something once.
I two-stocked you in a friendly at one of the smash and coffees-- I remember this because immediately following the match you commented on how surprised you were that I didn't get farther in bracket. As it turns out my character is just really good against yours if played right. I didn't do anything special, really. :p

I know I beat you in at least one other... trying to remember what it was. WTON, maybe? That may have been Chewie, I dunno.

In tournament I beat your IC's and you switched to game and watch at one of Rofa's tournaments at his co-op. All these were done by camping you like crazy. I'll admit that was a long time ago... but you have been beaten by Pit before. In fact, I don't remember ever losing to your IC's. Ever. Just your G&W back in the day.

Grats on taking third at Apex but don't get too full of yourself and start ignoring reality, k?

Gawd.

Edit: Also you haven't seen me in like... a month, because I don't have the money to enter tournaments right now. Student loans and other debts have become a problem. When I do have the spare cash I'll gladly give you a money match. <3


Oh, and @Admiral:

The IC's game lies completely in their grabs. This is not debatable. Being aggressive is the last thing you want to do. Trust me. Even if ledgecamping isn't a counter (and I still believe it is), rushing them down certainly is not.
 

Arzengel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
115
Location
Colombia
Wing-Stall is a good option. I got this friend kinda desperate since they couldn't hit me. He tried to be risky and threw against me, but nana died.

Kill nana, somehow, those two mean trouble, one only is halve the hazard.
I'd also say avoid grabbing, it's useless as long as the two are together.

Side-B, and AAA combo are good ways to rack damage too and keep your distance.
 

KY_Des

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
775
Location
Wichita, KS
Sure, lain may have been sandbagging, but he really doesn't tend to do that.
Lol wut? Lain sandbags all day in friendlies. It just doesnt feel like it cuz he can CG you without looking. I've seen him do it.... it's gay lol.

So it really doesn't matter if you beat him in a friendly... I mean... it's a friendly.

Adm's right, Desync iceblocks beats Pit's ledge camp. Melee1 showed me this at oh snap 4. IC's can also grab your SHDair if you start it too late. I've had this happen too... not fun. AR ***** Blizzard tho, that's good. Just dont get grabbed in cooldown lag.

Rapid A is good if you can get to the rapid part. Most IC's will shield grab you after the first or second jab. Pit's also easy to CG bc of his weight. So dont expect IC's to mess up the CG once they catch you. FHDair to AR sounds good tho. I'll try using that.

Wingdashing helps a little to avoid the grab. It's just hard to quickly seperate them safely. Nana gets ***** hardcore once you seperate them, but that doesn't help if you can't get them apart.

I dont really know this matchup. I know what doesn't work, but I haven't found what does yet. So I won't say what I think the matchup is bc of bias due to past experience in the matchup. I will say for sure tho that this is in no way a 70:30. I think even saying 60:40 would be pushing it.

Lain, I need friendlies.

EDIT
In tournament I beat your IC's and you switched to game and watch.
Lain doesn't play GnW...
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Lol wut? Lain sandbags all day in friendlies. It just doesnt feel like it cuz he can CG you without looking. I've seen him do it.... it's gay lol.

So it really doesn't matter if you beat him in a friendly... I mean... it's a friendly.
No, believe me, I see where you're coming from. I haven't played, let alone beat, Lain's IC's in a tournament match in like... 8 months? We never get in the same bracket anymore. I actually doubt I could beat him now, cause he's risen to the top while I've kind of had to quit due to lack of tournament funds. :laugh:

I'll play him in a money-match when I get the chance. Probably won't be for a while, though. :(


I will say for sure tho that this is in no way a 70:30. I think even saying 60:40 would be pushing it.
I'll admit 70:30 is pushing it. 60:40 is fairly conservative from what I've experienced so far, though. I've only ever lost to IC's once, and that was in a friendly. I've played them in tournament a few times-- Chewy I forced to switch to Dedede to beat me, and Lain switched to G&W to beat me.

Lain doesn't play GnW...
He used to main him. I said this was a long time ago. :)
 

KY_Des

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
775
Location
Wichita, KS
Screw this matchup. This is why I second Peach lol.

On a serious note, I honestly don't have much to contribute to this matchup. Everything I think up about it is purely theory considering I've only played Melee1 in tournament, but that was pools. He also wrecked my ****, and this at Oh Snap which was quite some time ago.

Lain... seriously, I need friendlies.
 

dskank

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
469
Location
da swamps of polk county
Ease of CG does not matter in Brawl, as CG's are binary. The opponent has no input into the situation, therefore with the right amount of practice it is either guaranteed or impossible, no matter which char you're trying to do it to. Plus they can't grab you if you never touch the ground in front of him. Pit does not have to do this. Ever.

Ice blocks don't matter, and they're not blocking any arrows unless the pit that shot them has no idea how to jump then curve his arrows down.
u can get grabed out of the air
they can shield an ariel then grab
 
Top Bottom