Is Japan having just as many problems with MK as we are?

Kain6th · Apr 23, 2009

I felt this should be its own topic, and im sure many people are curious too.

So does anyone know?

First of all is he banned there?

If not do they perceive him as we do as being broken/top tier?

How have they dealt with it?

And is there a way to find out?

Skazryk · Apr 23, 2009

im not 100% on this because things change. but last i heard mk isnt banned he is top still. but as for the rest of the list. zss is high and so is fox. they do have infinite's banned and things like that though.

magikguy · Apr 23, 2009

probably not if they have fox as high tier.

Crizthakidd · Apr 23, 2009

their fox users abuse the hell outa pivot grabs and then use fox a lot sexier than we do

BUT they dont use a dsf,m2k,dojo, ect users that use mk thus preventing any other char from wining ^_^

Kel · Apr 24, 2009

No they don't.

Where I'm at particularly doesn't have many MKs at all. The guys in my crew tell me that around Kyoto and Tokyo it's more common to see Metaknight being used though.

Japan doesn't really John about MK as much as we do. When I was at fest last week I was 2 stocking most of the people there or more with my MK. They got to a point where they started talking about it and trying different characters and strategies. I asked them about the tier list and they pretty much hate Dedede more than MK here. You also have to remember that they still do random stage to start withonly FD BF and SV on, so characters like Dedede, Diddy, etc. are better.

I'm going to a big fest tomorrow. I'll be taking a bunch of videos there and uploading them to my japan youtube. my regular youtube is youtube.com/papayasown I have a bunch of smash videos there from the MW, including a couple matches of Ally. My Japan youtube is youtube.com/kelinjapan where I don't necessarily concentrate on smash like I do with my other profile, but I'll be uploading all videos I take in Japan; from robots, mishaps around town, to smashfests and tournaments.

There's going to be a big tournament in Tokyo in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I'll get to go to that and see what's up.

Vyse · Apr 24, 2009

Get videos of Gano plz kthnx

lol, but seriously, that was an interesting read Kel.
If only for the bit about their stage list policy too.

Kain6th · Apr 24, 2009

Kel said:
Japan doesn't really John about MK as much as we do. When I was at fest last week I was 2 stocking most of the people there or more with my MK. They got to a point where they started talking about it and trying different characters and strategies.

Interesting, sounds like fun. I just gotta ask though. Could it be that MK isn't considered high tier simply because they haven't used him nearly as much as us and haven't truly discovered his brokenness yet? Also were there any MK mains there that were pretty good but having trouble with mid-lower tiers? How about high tier's?

Gates · Apr 24, 2009

Kel said:
they pretty much hate Dedede more than MK here.

KING DEDEDE: More fearsome than Metaknight.

This made my day.

KAT0N · Apr 24, 2009

From the videos I've seen Japanese players are not nearly as campy as us. But this was about 6 months ago that I saw those so who knows.

_Phloat_ · Apr 24, 2009

Plus, you probably see a lot more American smash than Japanese. Last I saw of Japan smash was those two spacies furiously nairing into eachother, so I dunno if it has changed since then,I assume it has.

Also, they have a ledge grab limit, so I guess camping on the ledge has at least been heard of, probably used, down thar.

MarthFanatique · Apr 24, 2009

Interesting topic. Never thought about it before.

Skazryk said:
zss is high and so is fox

EPIC! ZSS and Fox are win!

Kel · Apr 26, 2009

No, they still have MK at the top of the tier list, they just don't think he's unbearable. They hate Dedede more because all he does is CG people all day. However, they are just as campy as we are. Don't let any Japanese stereotypes fool you, they ledge camp too. They're just like us in pretty much every way. Here's a fun tidbit: when someone trips they also curse out loud "SAKURAI!" or "PARTY GAME!". When I was playing MK against some people they were being funny and calling things "Japanese combo" and stuff like that, so I just started tornadoing over and over and over and saying "USA COMBO".

I have a bunch of videos being uploaded to my youtube right now, including the best Yoshi in Japan (his name is Calamity) and he ledge camps a lot.

I have a couple of MKs in this batch of videos, but I didn't get any of me fighting the best MK in Nagoya. I went back and forth with him, but he's really good. He knows what he's doing. Also, there was a Snake player that that was like two steps below Ally. I took a video of me playing her, but she said she didn't want her videos being uploaded =(. I was excited to have the matches of me playing her up because she's really good. It was funny to see a Japanese girl beat me with Snake and then look over to check her hair in the mirror like nothing happened. Too good.

Vyse, I don't who who Gano is

Oh, and I can't go to the Tokyo tournament because it's invitation only and I got into the scene here too late. I'll probably be going to the Nagoya tournament in Summer though.

Vyse · Apr 26, 2009

Gano is a Diddy player in Japan. He's not spectacular by today's standards, but he was certainly very interesting to watch, and we always seem to have a lot to say whenever his name comes up.

Sounds like you're having a lot of fun over there

You should tell them that you want to enter the tournament to rep smashboards

Gates · Apr 26, 2009

Kel said:
They hate Dedede more because all he does is CG people all day.

If that's ALL they do, they're not playing him right. They need to use bair too. Maybe you could translate my flowchart and show it to them? I think it would benefit their playstyles a lot.

Affinity · Apr 26, 2009

Gates said:
If that's ALL they do, they're not playing him right. They need to use bair too. Maybe you could translate my flowchart and show it to them? I think it would benefit their playstyles a lot.

That flowchart is amazing.

Steeler · Apr 26, 2009

it's really interesting to hear of japan smash.

it's REALLY interesting to hear of a chick that ***** with snake.

l1striker1l · Apr 26, 2009

Oh man Gates lol.

Nice summary of the DDD metagame. Just chain grab and bair. lol

btw I also love the flowchart.

Crizthakidd · Apr 26, 2009

u make me so jelous. i wanan be in tokeyo playing smash with those females who then proceed to take u to their upstairs room with the screen doors and no bed!??!

and they make it sound sexy by asking if u want to smash....

Kel · Apr 26, 2009

All 20 videos I took are up on youtube.com/kelinjapan

There are a couple MK videos on there for you guys. I'll try to get some of me playing Uma (the best MK in Nagoya) next weekend or something

Beetle Juice · Apr 26, 2009

XD

Why did I post this ^ because I can do that ( I think) lol

Bellioes · Apr 26, 2009

I heard Souther is a really good Japanese Snake player too.
You heard of him/her before Kel? People were saying that hes as good as Ally but I havent seen any vids of him.

Omni · Apr 26, 2009

Kel said:
Here's a fun tidbit: when someone trips they also curse out loud "SAKURAI!" or "PARTY GAME!".

When I trip, I do this. But when my opponent trips and I take advantage:

"Yessssssssssss. Sakuraaaaaaaaaai."

I wanna' go to Japan now.

*edit:* Kel, who are the best players in Japan and who do they use?

Uffe · Apr 26, 2009

Kain6th said:
Interesting, sounds like fun. I just gotta ask though. Could it be that MK isn't considered high tier simply because they haven't used him nearly as much as us and haven't truly discovered his brokenness yet? Also were there any MK mains there that were pretty good but having trouble with mid-lower tiers? How about high tier's?

I hear they're behind in certain tactics with characters. I believe there was a video posted somewhere in the Samus boards showing Samus fighting Snake and both of them didn't really look too impressive. Like they did things you'd think twice about using here in the US. And I'm not saying they looked better than us, either. I mean their playstyle looked a bit out of date. If there is one thing I agree with them about, I don't like fighting King DeDeDe.

clowsui · Apr 26, 2009

@Uffe: Did you look at Kel's vids? Looks like that Olimar isn't too far behind at ALL...and neither is that TL or Yoshi

InfernoOmni said:
When I trip, I do this. But when my opponent trips and I take advantage:

"Yessssssssssss. Sakuraaaaaaaaaai."

I wanna' go to Japan now.

*edit:* Kel, who are the best players in Japan and who do they use?

#1 is RAIN, Falco from Tokyo
#2 is Masashi...I forgot to ask Kel for his character lol

clowsui · Apr 26, 2009

unintentional dbl post

Zankoku · Apr 26, 2009

Masashi plays Pit, last I checked.

MorphedChaos · Apr 26, 2009

Do they use Wario at all like DMG or Fiction?

Uffe · Apr 26, 2009

clowsui said:
@Uffe: Did you look at Kel's vids? Looks like that Olimar isn't too far behind at ALL...and neither is that TL or Yoshi

I said, "I hear they're behind in certain tactics with characters."

clowsui · Apr 26, 2009

The way you decided to present this conclusion was rather odd, then. Saying that you saw a vid of Samus vs. Snake + the two players doing risky things makes it equally valid for me to disprove that with a single video >___>; You could look at all 20 of those vids too, they'd show you that at the very least Nagoya seems to know what they're doing (in comparison to US players).

If you meant like tactics with certain characters then I guess that could be true /shrug Haven't seen enough evidence yet

stingers · Apr 26, 2009

Wow so, what's japanese smash like? This is interesting.

Kel · Apr 27, 2009

I should probably just make a brawl discussion thread for questions

Bellioes said:
I heard Souther is a really good Japanese Snake player too.
You heard of him/her before Kel? People were saying that hes as good as Ally but I havent seen any vids of him.

Yeah, I asked my crew about the best players in Japan and they mentioned him. He plays Snake and Link (I think they said some link). They ranked Souther as third best in Japan. He's in the Kansai (Kyoto) area. More below

InfernoOmni said:
When I trip, I do this. But when my opponent trips and I take advantage:
*edit:* Kel, who are the best players in Japan and who do they use?

Oh, believe me, they still take advantage of it. They just curse Sakurai or look at you, laugh and say "party game!" in a matter-of-fact voice.

the best players: in order
Rain- Falco player from tokyo
Masashi- Pit player from Kansai
Souther- Snake from Kansai
They told me others, but they weren't really sure about the order of them. They said Bombsoldier has slipped a lot though.

MorphedChaos said:
Do they use Wario at all like DMG or Fiction?

Aniki, the guy that used Link in the infamous melee vids, uses wario now. They nick named him waniki (wario +aniki = waniki). I haven't seen any crazy good warios in my area, but there's still plenty of people to meet.

stingers135 said:
Wow so, what's japanese smash like? This is interesting.

Japanese smash is just like how we play it here. The difference is that they're humble about it and don't play for money. But anything you've heard about camping (including the ledge camping rule) is BS. Look at the vid I took of my Snake vs Calamity. I was ahead more than a full stock and he still ran to the other side of FD, grabbed the edge, and began to egg camp. They ledge camp too, they're defensive when they need to be. They're just like us.

They know a lot more grab releases than we do. I asked Gonta if there were any new techniques discovered lately. I said "The Japanese pretty much discovered snake dashing/ dlx bs cancel etc, but have there been any new discoveries as of late?". Gonta replied "well, I'm not really sure of what America has discovered lately, but what's really popular now is grab releasing and crazy combos we've been working on" he went in to details about a crazy combo wolf could do to Dedede for example. I couldn't really explain it, but I can try to get some videos. They have some trendy stuff they do and they are really technical about things.

Keep questions coming. I might make a thread outside the MK boards though.

Gates · Apr 27, 2009

Kel said:
They know a lot more grab releases than we do. I asked Gonta if there were any new techniques discovered lately. I said "The Japanese pretty much discovered snake dashing/ dlx bs cancel etc, but have there been any new discoveries as of late?". Gonta replied "well, I'm not really sure of what America has discovered lately, but what's really popular now is grab releasing and crazy combos we've been working on" he went in to details about a crazy combo wolf could do to Dedede for example. I couldn't really explain it, but I can try to get some videos. They have some trendy stuff they do and they are really technical about things.

Please talk more about this. I'm sure both Wolf and Dedede mains would want to know.

And yeah, you should just make a new thread. Srsly.

Kel · Apr 27, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7260093#post7260093 new information thread in main discussion

Gates, I'll try to get a video of the combo

castorpollux · Apr 27, 2009

yes. please get a video of that combo, or at least try ur best to describe it. Speaking for all wolf main, this might be the break that we've been waiting for. Thanks!!

yummynbeefy · Apr 27, 2009

Gates said:
If that's ALL they do, they're not playing him right. They need to use bair too. Maybe you could translate my flowchart and show it to them? I think it would benefit their playstyles a lot.

the flowchart is sooo winnn

Crizthakidd · Apr 28, 2009

lol do they do footstool combos consistantly? i think in a year thats the direction the games doing to. a lot more powershield, foot stolling, grab release battles

_Kadaj_ · Apr 28, 2009

I want to go to japan

napZzz · Apr 28, 2009

KAT0N said:
From the videos I've seen Japanese players are not nearly as campy as us. But this was about 6 months ago that I saw those so who knows.

watch a japanese falco/fox/wolf or anything else with projectiles. Good god I dont even know how they can play the game and have fun -_- they are so ****in campy

BIGM1994 · Apr 28, 2009

castorpollux said:
yes. Please Get A Video Of That Combo, Or At Least Try Ur Best To Describe It. Speaking For All Wolf Main, This Might Be The Break That We've Been Waiting For. Thanks!!

Yesss Pleaseeeee!! oh btw does any1 know how to powershield?

Aiko · Apr 29, 2009

ask in general Q&A thread

Is Japan having just as many problems with MK as we are?

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