Ganondorf's True Damage

]Standard Ground Attacks and Tilts

Jab

7.35% (9.45% tipped)

F-Tilt

13.65%

D-Tilt

12.6%

U-Tilt

27.3% (19.95% if it connects at the explosion)

Dash Attack

15.75% (10.5% left-over hitbox)

Smash Attacks

F-Smash

25.2% (35.28% charged)

U-Smash

19.95% (26.25% charged)

Sweetspot

23.1% (32.34% charged)

D-Smash

19.95% (27.93% charged)

First Hit

5.25% (7.35% charged)

Second Hit

14.7% (20.58% charged)

Other Ground Attacks

Ledge Attack (both variations)

10.5%

Trip Attack

6.3%

Floor Attack

6.3%

Aerials

Nair

18.9%

First

11.55%

Second

7.35%

Fair

15.75%

Sweetspot

17.85%

Bair

16.8%

Dair

23.1%

Sourspot (at his chest)

17.85%

Uair

13.65%

Tipman (ending frames)

6.3%

Throws and Pummel

Pummel

2.1%

F-throw

13.65%

B-Throw

10.5%

D-Throw

7.35%

U-Throw

7.35%

Special Attacks

Warlock Punch

33.6%

Reverse Warlock Punch

36.75%

Aerial Warlock Punch

37.8%

Reverse Aerial Warlock Punch

39.9%

Murder Choke

9.45%

Aerial Murder Choke

12.6%

Wizkick

12.6% initial

10.5% rest of the hit box

Aerial Wizkick

15.75% initial

14.7% rest of the hitbox

Quake

8.4%

Dark Dive

11.55%

Dark Uppercut

7.35%

Formula

The formula to get these percentages is

training mode base damage x 1.05

For example, the training mode base for a Dair is 22% that value times 1.05 is 23.1.

The game probably just does this simply because Sakurai wills it.

Amazing Ampharos and ColinJF came up with the formula. I just crunched some numbers to get the percentages. Thanks guys.

Their topic is here in this link.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

Decayed Damage




I did not feel like puting the names of the moves so I just put the damages. Here is what each damage represents.

2%=Pummel
5%=Dsmash (first hit), Nair (sex kick at the end of the second kick)
6%=Uair (ending frames) and Get-up attacks (both variations)
7%=Jab, Dark Uppercut, Uthrow, Dthrow, Nair (second hit) and Dsmash (first hit, fully charged)
8%=Murder Quake
9%=Gerudo and Jab (sweetspoted)
10%=Dash Attack (sourspoted), Ledge attacks (both variations), Bthrow and Wizkick (noninitial hit box, grounded)
11%=Nair (first hit) and Dark Dive
12%=Aerudo, Wizkick (initial hit box, grounded) and Dtilt
13%=Ftilt, Uair (initial) and Fthrow
14%=Dsmash (second hit) and Wizkick (noninitial hitbox, aerial).
15%=Dash Attack, Fair and Wizkick (initial hitbox, aerial)
16%=Bair
17%=Fair (sweetspot), Dair (sourspoted)
19%=Usmash, Utilt (sourspotted)
19.6%=Dsmash (second hit, charged)
22%=Dair, Usmash (sweetspoted)
24%=Fsmash
26.6%=Usmash (charged)
30.8%=Usmash (sweetspoted, charged)
32%=Warlock Punch
33.6%=Fsmash (charged)
35%=Warlock Punch (reverse)
36%=Warlock Punch (aerial)
38%=Warlock Punch (aerial, reverse)

The stale move queue goes by training mode values instead of the VS. mode value.

The formula to get all these percentages is here

ColinJF said:

The left of the diagram represents the most recent move to be added to the queue, and the far right represents the oldest move to the added to the queue. Then we have

stale multiplier = 1 – s

where s is the sum of the values of the positions in the queue occupied by the move being used. For example, if the move being used occupies the .1 position, the .06 position, and the .03 position, then the stale multiplier is 1 - (0.1 + 0.06 + 0.03) = 0.81.

Colin and Amazing Ampharos

Click to expand...

ColinJF and Amazing Ampharos are just awesome. All I did was crunch some numbers to get the percentages. :-).

How can this be? A sourspotted DAir?!

If the move connects at Ganondorf's chest, the opponent is still spiked, just with less damage. Sometimes if we Thunderstorm and Sourspot the Stomp the opponent is in the stun animation on the ground, free for an attack or a grab from us.

Just so you know, Dtilt and Bair also have sweetspots.

I didn't think that they changed the damage, just the knockback. I will change that now.

weinner said:

I didn't think that they changed the damage, just the knockback. I will change that now.

Click to expand...

Come to think of it, you may be right. I'm not sure.

I suppose I'll test sourspot Dair if no one has called it yet. If not, there are plenty of other moves to test.

We appriciate you contribution, Noobicidal. I'll put you as listed for the Sour-Stomp

Also, I think it would be best to preform 20 in a row (self-KOing after each one of course) to get the most acurate answer. I don't believe the damage percent goes belows the hundreth place and is irrational (non-repeating).

weinner said:

We appriciate you contribution, Noobicidal. I'll put you as listed for the Sour-Stomp

Also, I think it would be best to preform 20 in a row (self-KOing after each one of course) to get the most acurate answer. I don't believe the damage percent goes belows the hundreth place and is irrational (non-repeating).

Click to expand...

Alright, I already have a "perfect" testing stage set up, so I'll get on it after my shower.

Reserved for information.

Edit - First list of information

Sourspotted Thunderstorm (Training)

Stomp 1 - 17
Stomp 2 - 34
Stomp 3 - 51
Stomp 4 - 68
Stomp 5 - 85
Stomp 6 - 102
Stomp 7 - 119
Stomp 8 - 136
Stomp 9 - 153
Stomp 10 - 170
Stomp 11 - 187

Not going to waste my time for the other 9 SSTS due to knowing that it does 17% exactly (unless it's a decimal smaller than a tenth), so I'll leave it at that. I'll do the In-Game testing tommorow.

Sourspotted Thunderstorm (In Game)

-Tommorow

Down Tilt

Hit 1 - 12
Hit 2 - 25
Hit 3 - 37
Hit 4 - 50
Hit 5 - 62
Hit 6 - 75
Hit 7 - 88
Hit 8 - 100
Hit 9 - 113
Hit 10 - 125
Hit 11 - 138

12.55 damage.

Sparta Kick

Hit 1 - 13
Hit 2 - 27
Hit 3 - 40
Hit 4 - 54
Hit 5 - 68
Hit 6 - 81
Hit 7 - 95
Hit 8 - 109
Hit 9 - 122
Hit 10 - 136
Hit 11 - 150

13.65 damage. Testing if Brawl rounds up to tenths or hundredths.

Edit: It IS hundredths. Tenths would make hit 3 equal 41.

I assume you mean from training mode over to a VS. match, Big O. However, unless we test in training mode, we don't know if the damage is a whole number, also the percentage rounds off in Training mode but not in VS. mode.

This is a strange thread, lol. I don't quite see its usefulness.

PhantomX said:

This is a strange thread, lol. I don't quite see its usefulness.

Click to expand...

Why, the pursuit of more knowledge of our Dark Lord of course!

PhantomX said:

This is a strange thread, lol. I don't quite see its usefulness.

Click to expand...

We're all sorta biding our time until the next big discovery shows up. Something like the FoG would put an end to threads like this.

BRB testing all smashes.

Twilight Prince said:

BRB testing all smashes.

Click to expand...

Alright, I'll do the tilts then.

Noobicidal said:

Down Tilt

Hit 1 - 12
Hit 2 - 25
Hit 3 - 37
Hit 4 - 50
Hit 5 - 62
Hit 6 - 75
Hit 7 - 88?
Hit 8 - 100
Hit 9 - 113
Hit 10 - 125
Hit 11 - 138

D-tilt does 12.5 damage.

Click to expand...

The pattern seems to be disrupted by hit number 7

I see the pattern would be 12-13-12-13-12-13-12-13 and so on if the value was 12.5 (12.5+12.5=25, 25-12=13, 25+12.5=37.5, 37.5-25 will be shown as a 12 point difference.

However, I see 12-13-12-13-12-13-13?-12-13-12-13

I'll take your word for it but it just does not seem right. If you see the error than please tell me.

PhantomX said:

This is a strange thread, lol. I don't quite see its usefulness.

Click to expand...

I understand what you mean though.

weinner said:

I'll take your word for it but it just does not seem right. If you see an error then please tell me.

Click to expand...

The testing is right, but the math isn't. It's 12.6; I just overlooked it when I saw a total of 25 every two hits.

Edit - On a side note, I'm just going to multiply the training mode hits by 1.05 if you don't mind.

No problem. I'll go change that right now.

Oh, by all means, continue. I was just wondering if I should work some moderating magic, is all XD At least you guys do stuff.

PhantomX said:

Oh, by all means, continue. I was just wondering if I should work some moderating magic, is all XD At least you guys do stuff.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by "moderating magic"?

Not to be picky Noobicidal but there is yet another problem.

Hit 1 - 12.6
Hit 2 - 25.2
Hit 3 - 37.8
Hit 4 - 50.4
Hit 5 - 62-63?
Hit 6 - 75.6
Hit 7 - 88.2
Hit 8 - 100.8
Hit 9 - 113.4
Hit 10 - 125-126?
Hit 11 - 138.6

There the question marks by the percentages of concern.

And you see why I'm not a math Major. Be picky; I love collaboration on a project like this.

12.55 then. It satisfies all the questionable damage percents.

OK guys, I tested Usmash and Fsmash. I didn't test Dsmash because it is harder to test, it apparently has a sweetspot, and I hate that move. I did my testing in normal mode, not training. Man up and test the hard way, Noobicidal. You'll see why it is necessary when you see my data.

Usmash (not sweetspot) (uncharged..........charged)

19% .......... 27%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +27% (yes, here)
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%
+20% .......... +28%

The correct response is "LOL wtf?"
I can guarantee you all my data is correct, by the way. I double checked everything.

Usmash (sweetspot) (uncharged..........charged)

23% .......... 32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +33%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +33%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+24% .......... +33%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +33%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +33%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +32%
+23% .......... +33%
+24% .......... +32%

At least this data is easy to understand.

Moving on to Fsmash:

Fsmash (uncharged..........charged)

25% .......... 35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% (WTF) .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +35%

**** Sakurai.

I'm too sleepy and lazy to format this data and calculate stuff. You do it.

Twilight Prince said:

I did my testing in normal mode, not training. Man up and test the hard way, Noobicidal. You'll see why it is necessary when you see my data.

Click to expand...

I did "man up", but the training mode wasn't a complete waste; we now know that the "5% damage and knockback" myth is false. If it weren't, we wouldn't have to do all of this testing.

Noobicidal said:

I did "man up", but the training mode wasn't a complete waste; we now know that the "5% damage and knockback" myth is false. If it weren't, we wouldn't have to do all of this testing.

Click to expand...

Cool.

Have you noticed that my uncharged Fsmash data is mathematically impossible?

Twilight Prince said:

Cool.

Have you noticed that my uncharged Fsmash data is mathematically impossible?

Click to expand...

It's not impossible. If you look at your data closely, you'll notice that your discrepancies happen in a pattern; every 3 hits, then every 4 hits, and it repeats from there. What that value is currently, I don't know. I'll look into that after I get all of MY math right.

*sigh*

Noobicidal said:

It's not impossible. If you look at your data closely, you'll notice that your discrepancies happen in a pattern; every 3 hits, then every 4 hits, and it repeats from there. What that value is currently, I don't know. I'll look into that after I get all of MY math right.

*sigh*

Click to expand...

1st - 25%
2nd - +25%
3rd - +25%
4th - +25%
5th - +25%
6th - +26%

Twilight Prince said:

1st - 25%
2nd - +25%
3rd - +25%
4th - +25%
5th - +25%
6th - +26%

Click to expand...

My eyes are failing me. I was looking at the charged side (and even then I'm STILL wrong). So it's 5-5-4 repeat. Though I'm a blind Ganon currently, there is SOME consistent damage percent.

Eh, heading to bed. Have fun.

Edit: Blind... OldManondorf... It all makes sense now.

Noobicidal said:

So it's 5-5-4 repeat.

Click to expand...

It goes 5 25's, then 4 25's, then 3 25's, then 4 25's.

There is no linear function that can explain those gaps.

Someone retest that part of my data.

Twilight Prince said:

It goes 5 25's, then 4 25's, then 3 25's, then 4 25's.

There is no linear function that can explain those gaps.

Someone retest that part of my data.

Click to expand...

Remind me not to test (or read...) at night.

One last thought: did you hit with the elbow or the "aura" each time? Though the damage may appear to be the same, there's a chance that one is higher than the other.

Noobicidal said:

Remind me not to test (or read...) at night.

One last thought: did you hit with the elbow or the "aura" each time? Though the damage may appear to be the same, there's a chance that one is higher than the other.

Click to expand...

I may have been inconsistent on what part of the Fsmash I hit with.

On the other hand, I tested my data twice.

Sakurai - 1
This project - 0

You know what would make this possible (assuming my testing is correct)? Starting at -0.1%.

Noobicidal said:

the training mode wasn't a complete waste; we now know that the "5% damage and knockback" myth is false. If it weren't, we wouldn't have to do all of this testing.

Click to expand...

Huzzah we are Mythbustaz.

Twilight Prince said:

Fsmash (uncharged..........charged)

25% .......... 35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% (WTF) .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +35%
+25% .......... +36%
+25% .......... +35%
+26% .......... +35%

Click to expand...

We may have to go further than 20 hits to get an accurate result. For the uncharged, the total is 504%. The True damage logically will do 504%/20. This equals 25.2%, reasonable but here is the contradiction. 1=25.2, 2=50.4, 3=75.6, 4=100.8, 5=126, 6=151.2. You data shows, 1=25, 2=50, 3=75, 4=100, 5=125, 6=151. The only way that is possible is if the pecentage is 25+(1/6). So, 1 is 25+(1/6)%, 2 is 50+(1/3)%, 3 is 75+(1/2)%, 4 is 100+(2/3)%, 5 is 125+(5/6), 6 is 151. However, there is a contradiction here as well. 12=302 with the way I presented, but your data shows 12=301+(1/3).

This is very complex. It will take more time to figure this out. The rest seems reasonable, I shall place the rest of your data down.

I know this is a long and weary process just to get 20 reps....but wouldn't it be easier to go to 100 reps to get a true percentage reading (x/100 = percentage)? Or even until the other player has 999% dmg, just to get the most acurate reading possible?

This sounds neat. If we weren't in discussion mode on the Bowser Boards I'd start something complicated like this, lol.

Twilight_Warrior said:

I know this is a long and weary process just to get 20 reps....but wouldn't it be easier to go to 100 reps to get a true percentage reading (x/100 = percentage)? Or even until the other player has 999% dmg, just to get the most acurate reading possible?

Click to expand...

When this started, tought that nearly every move did not go below the hundreths place (0.01) now, darn F-smash, I know that there are damages that go at and below that place value. Most of Ganon's attacks are also to strong to get 100 reps in, and I think that would be very tedious.

Also, for the F-smash (uncharged), put it off for now. We should work on other things, such as the aerials and throws and come back to this later.

Weinner, could you do Gerudo & Aerudo-testing?

Sorry to say, but this thread is unnecessary. It is also wrong in some of its conclusions. AA and I already correctly figured this stuff out six months ago. Just read this document:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

That should answer all of your questions.