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Yoshi v. Zelda
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
Scarlet Jile
Smash Lord
Zelda is an asshole, thread over.
Metatitan
Smash Master
its like 30:70 if u dont know the matchup very well, 40:60 if u do. and yes, zelda is a ****
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
I hate fighting Zelda, thank goodness I have tons of Zelda practice.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Ask DarkMusician and FingerP@ss about this.
Yes.
Yeah Zelda is hard. I've already learned this. However she dies relatively early from Yoshi's vertical kills.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Yoshi just has to be super patient against her.
It's not so much that she has an advantage.But the fact that she can KO you anytime you leave the ground or make a bad spotdodge.
It's been almost six months and I still cannot get Yoshi to DI out of that upsmash. My Sonic can and my Kirby did ONCE, but Yoshi seems too fat.
F*ck
Zelda
sniperworm
Smash Ace
Wow, just wow...
Poltergust
Smash Master
It's definitely 40:60 for us.
Why? Well, she completely dominates Yoshi on the ground (it's almost as bad as Snake), has a fantastic anti-air move, and a reflector which forces Yoshi to approach. In the air she is dangerous, but only when she spaces herself correctly, so be aggressive if she is in the air.
Oh, and Nayru's Love ***** Yoshi's spot-dodge. In this match-up, it's probably BETTER to shield than it is to spot-dodge. She has too many multi-hitting moves and her throws aren't really troublesome compared to her other moves. =(
Why? Well, she completely dominates Yoshi on the ground (it's almost as bad as Snake), has a fantastic anti-air move, and a reflector which forces Yoshi to approach. In the air she is dangerous, but only when she spaces herself correctly, so be aggressive if she is in the air.
Oh, and Nayru's Love ***** Yoshi's spot-dodge. In this match-up, it's probably BETTER to shield than it is to spot-dodge. She has too many multi-hitting moves and her throws aren't really troublesome compared to her other moves. =(
Dodge Nayru's love by short hop airdodging.. you can mobily dodge it while approaching.
Poltergust
Smash Master
OK, I have a couple of posts from the Yoshi match-up discussion in the Zelda boards:
And:
Anyone want to debate these points? With Zelda as my second-best character, I'm sure I know what I'm talking about here.
Thank you Edrees! Yoshis need to SHAD more.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Zelda is a very bad character, and we should not be losing to her.
She has **** mobility and can do absolutely nothing if we SH out of her range. Bair outranges dash attack, and her aerials cant do anything at that range.
Her projectile is bad in general, nair beats it, dont let her kill you up high with it by baiting an airodge, you can usually nair unless she spaces it like right at ur head.
Now what she CAN do is:
Destroy you if you misspace an approach with dumb smashes, a rediculously gay down tilt, and lighting kicks.
She gets a guarenteed turnaround bair out of a down tilt trip.
Space HER with down tilts, be really unpredictable with aerial movement and approaches, dont make dumb mistakes.
50:50 practically, 60:40 us in a perfect world with both players playing amazingly.
She has **** mobility and can do absolutely nothing if we SH out of her range. Bair outranges dash attack, and her aerials cant do anything at that range.
Her projectile is bad in general, nair beats it, dont let her kill you up high with it by baiting an airodge, you can usually nair unless she spaces it like right at ur head.
Now what she CAN do is:
Destroy you if you misspace an approach with dumb smashes, a rediculously gay down tilt, and lighting kicks.
She gets a guarenteed turnaround bair out of a down tilt trip.
Space HER with down tilts, be really unpredictable with aerial movement and approaches, dont make dumb mistakes.
50:50 practically, 60:40 us in a perfect world with both players playing amazingly.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Yep. Naryu's Love shouldn't be a problem for us.
Yeah your right. Like I said earlier, if we play smart and patient, we should be fine.
Poltergust
Smash Master
...No one will respond to my post? >_>
Yosheon
Smash Cadet
Zelda is a pain, but the match won't be hard if you're patient.
Honestly, you should never try to approach her from above. I doubt any of Yoshi's aerials have higher priority than her up-smash or u-air. In other words, don't let her get beneathe you. If both of you are beside each other in the air, then the best move to use might be egg lay.
Honestly, you should never try to approach her from above. I doubt any of Yoshi's aerials have higher priority than her up-smash or u-air. In other words, don't let her get beneathe you. If both of you are beside each other in the air, then the best move to use might be egg lay.
MX778
Smash Journeyman
I agree.
Yoshi's tounge can do you some good here.
If you get hit by a U-smash at a low percentage, chances are you're going to get hit by a second one if you're not careful. >__>
I don't have much vs. Good Zelda experience, but I'm just sharing what I know.
hadesblade
Smash Lord
Her fsmash beats our bair, and if we SH away she can go back to her side b.
When your grounded it destroys you, if you shield, it pushes you back to where she can camp you even more, you can't reliably spotdodge/SHAD it, she will just mix up when she explodes it, and if you SH a nair, she can just explode it behind or above you... doesn't seem like a bad projectile in this matchup at all...
Seems a lot worse than 50:50... I'd say 65:35 or even 70:30 her. This is probably my hardest matchup.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Fsmash lasts a bit and is punishable. She doesnt have too many options as a character, so shes easier to bait, and you can see her reaction when u SH out of her range, and then punish accordingly.
Side b is bad, you really shouldnt have trouble with it. You can just run up and nair.
Also, we out camp her anyways at long range lol.
its 50:50, only because Zelda does have lots of priority and all that other stuff.
Just because its your hardest matchup, doesnt make it 30:70. I have a really hard time with mario and kirby, those arent 30:70.
Side b is bad, you really shouldnt have trouble with it. You can just run up and nair.
Also, we out camp her anyways at long range lol.
its 50:50, only because Zelda does have lots of priority and all that other stuff.
Just because its your hardest matchup, doesnt make it 30:70. I have a really hard time with mario and kirby, those arent 30:70.
hadesblade
Smash Lord
If you try to nair her side b, she will just explode them behind you and you will get hit, you can't just expect to nair them consistently. You don't beat her at long range, if your within egg toss range, she will outcamp you.
If you SH out of her Fsmash range, you can't hit her with anything. And after it ends she is able to have another one up before you get a chance to get back in her range and hit her with anything.
There's no way it's 50:50, she destroys yoshi everywhere.
If you SH out of her Fsmash range, you can't hit her with anything. And after it ends she is able to have another one up before you get a chance to get back in her range and hit her with anything.
There's no way it's 50:50, she destroys yoshi everywhere.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Zelda doesnt outcamp anyone.
Din's fire<Yoshi's eggs in terms of both speed and firing rate.
Sure she has nayru's love, but its a poor reflector and Yoshi will avoid the eggs when they rebound towards him.
Fsmash<DI.
DI the Fsmash, she can NEVER kill you with it.
Same thing with her Usmash.
Once in the air, there isnt much she has over yoshi because she has much less aerial mobility and her aerals require sweetspotting in order to be effective, something not easily performed.
Din's fire<Yoshi's eggs in terms of both speed and firing rate.
Sure she has nayru's love, but its a poor reflector and Yoshi will avoid the eggs when they rebound towards him.
Fsmash<DI.
DI the Fsmash, she can NEVER kill you with it.
Same thing with her Usmash.
Once in the air, there isnt much she has over yoshi because she has much less aerial mobility and her aerals require sweetspotting in order to be effective, something not easily performed.
The thing is that her usmash is considerably harder to DI than her fsmash......especially with a character like Yoshi. Also, if you try to SDI at higher percents out of her usmash, you are in effect killing yourself because you are improperly DI'ing the move in order to live. So if you can DI her usmash 100% then I say more power to you, but just be weary of this at higher percents.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Of curse its a bit more difficult but it is doable, you have to get out while her hand is sweeping by you.
Its much better than certain death.
Its much better than certain death.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Except it is. Lol
Sorry, if ur getting outcamped you're doing it very wrong, and you can approach with a nair so she has to explode it or she gets hit.
w/e im done arguing with you, you think Zelda is worse than MK lol.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Can someone please respond to my summary that I put up a long time ago? -_-
Zelda isn't a good character, and really isn't that much of a threat in this matchup.
Sure, having strong attacks and disjointed hitboxes doesn't help, but Zelda has horrible mobility.
I'd go with what burntsockz already stated.
Since Yoshi has no OoS options, I really wouldn't play aggressive against Zelda, she dominates us when it comes to killing and defending herself.
Sure, having strong attacks and disjointed hitboxes doesn't help, but Zelda has horrible mobility.
I'd go with what burntsockz already stated.
Since Yoshi has no OoS options, I really wouldn't play aggressive against Zelda, she dominates us when it comes to killing and defending herself.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Okay, then. Let's begin.OK, I have a couple of posts from the Yoshi match-up discussion in the Zelda boards:
Having Zelda as my first secondary, I know this match-up quite well. Everyone who says that this match-up is 60:40 Zelda is indeed correct.
Let's start with what Yoshi has on Zelda:
-Better aerials
-Much better edge game
-Pivot-grab.
-Jab (is a great move to use against Zelda, Yoshi needs to out-space her to win)
-Better recovery
Now with Zelda's advantages:
-FAR better ground game
-Better projectile (in this particular match-up, at least)
-Nayru's Love (is a great move to use against Yoshi since he has bad OOS options)
-Much better KO moves (although a couple of them are SDI-able)
-Better throws
-Yoshi is easy to Lightning Kick (for some reason...)
The only place where Yoshi can truly dominate Zelda is when she is over the edge, where he can set up a great edge-guard. Everywhere else, though, he has to look out for her dangerous attacks.
Also, Zelda can't gimp Yoshi, so don't even bother trying. I'd recommend using Din's Fire to tack on damage if Yoshi is recovering low (he'll most likely up-B to the edge, so he is vulnerable during the move) or use a u-air or Lightning Kick if you can predict him if he is recovering high.
Oh, and don't switch to Sheik. She's a neutral match-up, so it'll only make it harder for you.
And:
Yoshi does have the better projectile overall, but since Zelda's projectile poses a problem in this match-up and the fact that she has a reflector means that Yoshi would have to approach. The main reason why this match-up is advantaged for Zelda is because she has quite a few reliable ways to stop Yoshi's approach options. A properly timed Nayru's Love can stop Yoshi's ground approach, and Zelda has a few other moves to stop his aerial approaches.
Anyone want to debate these points? With Zelda as my second-best character, I'm sure I know what I'm talking about here.
Din's Fire and Nayru's Love. I cannot believe that Zelda out camps Yoshi. Nayru's Love is a bad reflector. It only reflects at the beginning, and after that, she's wide open for egg pummeling. Din's Fire is also not that bad. As it's been said, nair beats it. Or you can just shield. Or you can egg her while she's casting it, which causes it to go the max distance on it's current trajectory before exploding. You should not be forced to approach Zelda. Which means she cannot shut down our approach. We can, however, shut down hers since she has terrible mobility. Egg her as she's approaching. Pivot Grab her.
She does have better KO moves on the whole, and a lot of them are lasting and have good
range. But as long as we play it safe and patient we should be living for a long time. Lightning Kicks aren't much of a problem as long as you don't get set up for it. Her smashes are SDIable (though I haven't had any success with it.). Her tilts are pretty nasty, but don't have that much range and are punishable.
If we get a grab on Zelda, throw her off the stage if you're close or throw her into the air if you're closer to the center. Zelda falls incredibly slow and has low aerial mobility, which means you can egg her as she's in the air, bait an airdodge and uair for the KO, or anything, really.
I don't think Zelda is that hard if you play patient, like others have said. If you get too aggressive, you'll take a lot of damage fast, so don't.
Poltergust
Smash Master
OK, rebuttal time.Okay, then. Let's begin.
Din's Fire and Nayru's Love. I cannot believe that Zelda out camps Yoshi. Nayru's Love is a bad reflector. It only reflects at the beginning, and after that, she's wide open for egg pummeling. Din's Fire is also not that bad. As it's been said, nair beats it. Or you can just shield. Or you can egg her while she's casting it, which causes it to go the max distance on it's current trajectory before exploding. You should not be forced to approach Zelda. Which means she cannot shut down our approach. We can, however, shut down hers since she has terrible mobility. Egg her as she's approaching. Pivot Grab her.
She does have better KO moves on the whole, and a lot of them are lasting and have good
range. But as long as we play it safe and patient we should be living for a long time. Lightning Kicks aren't much of a problem as long as you don't get set up for it. Her smashes are SDIable (though I haven't had any success with it.). Her tilts are pretty nasty, but don't have that much range and are punishable.
If we get a grab on Zelda, throw her off the stage if you're close or throw her into the air if you're closer to the center. Zelda falls incredibly slow and has low aerial mobility, which means you can egg her as she's in the air, bait an airdodge and uair for the KO, or anything, really.
I don't think Zelda is that hard if you play patient, like others have said. If you get too aggressive, you'll take a lot of damage fast, so don't.
Zelda does indeed out-camp Yoshi. It's mostly due to her Din's Fire, but Nayru's Love also helps. Anyways, if Zelda and Yoshi throw out a projectile in about the same time and hit each other, then Yoshi would be taking the most damage. Zelda can always angle it down into the stage and explode it at Yoshi's feet, even when she is hit. Yoshi has a lot of lag after throwing his projectile, which means that Din's Fire would most likely hit. Shielding the projectile would just make her throw out more, and if you n-air it she can still direct her projectile behind Yoshi and hit him when the hit-box disappears due to it's amazing blast radius.
Yes, Zelda has better KO options. Glad we agree there. However, there are three concerns in that paragraph that I want to address. One, is that Yoshi can be Lightning Kicked off of a d-tilt trip. Two, d-tilt has good range, is a good shield pressure move for Zelda, and can set up Yoshi for a lot of things (Lightning Kick as mentioned previously, d-smash, u-tilt, up-smash...). Three, only her f-smash is easily SDI'able. You can't SDI her d-smash (which is amazing, by the way), and her up-smash is very hard to SDI out of. The fact that Yoshi is heavy doesn't help.
Yep, grabs do well her since you can out-space her with them. Her off-stage game against Yoshi sucks, so it'll be wise to throw her off the stage and put on as much damage as possible. However, I must point out to you that Zelda's air-speed is actually pretty good, so you'll have to be quick if you want to catch her in the air. You must be careful to avoid her attacks in the air, though.
Yes, Yoshi has to play extremely patiently if he want to win this match-up. Aggressiveness is NOT the way to go. If Yoshi doesn't space right, then Zelda will totally dominate, especially on the ground (she's no Snake, but she does really beat out Yoshi's ground game).
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Seems like camping is what we disagree on here.
I think that the camping game between the two depends largely on who gets the upper-hand first. If we get hit by a Din's Fire first, it's difficult to get back and attempt to out-camp her. If we hit her first, it's pretty much the same situation. Eggs are faster than Din's Fire. If both characters throw there projectiles out at the same time, the egg should hit first and we should have enough time to avoid/block the Din's Fire. Then you fire another egg, and she'll have less time than before to get you with Din's Fire. Continue until she approaches.
Dtilt is gay. No disagreement. Dsmash is too. For her air speed, I'm mainly talking about how she falls incredibly slow. Egging her while she's airborne and grabbing her as she lands shouldn't be a problem. Usmash can see some use too, I'd assume.
I think that the camping game between the two depends largely on who gets the upper-hand first. If we get hit by a Din's Fire first, it's difficult to get back and attempt to out-camp her. If we hit her first, it's pretty much the same situation. Eggs are faster than Din's Fire. If both characters throw there projectiles out at the same time, the egg should hit first and we should have enough time to avoid/block the Din's Fire. Then you fire another egg, and she'll have less time than before to get you with Din's Fire. Continue until she approaches.
Dtilt is gay. No disagreement. Dsmash is too. For her air speed, I'm mainly talking about how she falls incredibly slow. Egging her while she's airborne and grabbing her as she lands shouldn't be a problem. Usmash can see some use too, I'd assume.
hadesblade
Smash Lord
Um... zelda is worse than mk in my opinion, does that make me stupid? Mk isn't our worst matchup. Zelda outcamps us, we outcamp mk. Zelda lives longer than mk, we don't have any grab release on zelda... not to mention no reliable ways to grab her except out of the air, which, she won't be if she can't hit her in the first place. Zelda kills us faster than mk, zeldas smashes and tilts are stronger, have more priority, and come out almost as fast as mks... yeah I think zelda is worse than mk, so yes zelda is worse than mk.
And let me ask you something, have you even played a decent zelda?
And no you can't just approach with a nair, she will have a din's fire exploded behind you before you are close enough to hit her with it.
Oh.
Smash Apprentice
Don't Get Need.
Oh.
Smash Apprentice
dun git need
Oh I must have missed when Yoshi started to become considered as a good character. You need to calm down there little buddy......this matchup is pretty even. How an even matchup can be considered "not much of a threat" beats me.
Let's not take how bad Zelda is to heart...this is just squabbling over semantics.Let's talk about how Yoshi should never leave the ground or spotdodge. Let's talk about why Zelda makes dash attack a viable move. Let's talk about upsmash and how to get the hhjk out of it. :D
D
Deleted member
Guest
No it doesnt make you stupid, im just done arguing cuz we are getting no where.
Yea ive played fierces zelda which is pretty solid.
Matchups arent decided by who outcamps who, but to be real, MK outcamps yoshi
You wont be grabbing good MKs too much, Zelda is easy to grab cuz she has no good fair/bair (i mean, they are good but not for normal combat like Mk's). Oy vey, what good zeldas have YOU played.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Nope.
Provided you supprt it properly.
No she doesn't.
Play better MK's.
Uair allows MK to live at much higher percents than Zelda ever will.
MK is much easier to grab even though he has multiple jumps and a long ranged blade with laser priority?
Fix this sentence.
DI the Fsmasn and Usmash.
Those are her fastes kill moves.
And while Zelda certainly kills earlier, MK has an easier time killing.
WOAH, WOAAAAAAAH!
More priority? Boy what rock have you been under?
MK has laser priority for his sword.
SO ANY move is over rided because it has true prioity.
Let alone that his range is greater than zelda.
No they don't.
MK's moves overall come out in under 5 frames.
Hav you ever played a good MK/Zelda/Yoshi/anything?
Nair has a large hitbox, so even if she blows it up behind you, the Nair will still block it.