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>--[Yoshi Reseach and Development]--< - Updated

auroreon

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
583
Introduction

Ok, we have had a few of these before but they kind of died so I though a new one was needed. I decided to create this thread in an attempt to promote more co-operation and communication between Yoshi mains in testing and experimenting with the character to advance his metagame. Also because we have been seeing a lot of motivational threads recently but not a lot in terms of actual development.

The purpose of this thread is to provide a sort of repository for current testing data and observations as well as a way to bring new discoveries to light and get help in testing and experimenting from other Yoshis. A lot of discussion is done over at the Yoshi chatroom which can be found here: http://xat.com/chat/room/58501333.
A lot of the information and research is lost as there was no solid place to keep little snipets and with this thread I hope to provide such a place.

I will keep this OP and the next post as a place to keep and summerize information and research as we are working with it, as well as provide useful information on how anyone can contribute.
Hopefully this will provide a useful place to develop Yoshis game and help to discover and discuss new things that we can add to the group guide "How to Hatch a Healthy Yoshi" once it has been finalized.


How to use this thread


The important thing here is that no one feels like they can't contribute or feel that any discoveries they make are "probably already known" or "probably just useless" or "I don't know enough to post anything useful". Everyone is capable of contributing to the development of a character, no matter how inexperienced. Anyone can stumble accross something useful, so lets please be nice to each other OK? =).
If what someone posts is irrelivant, useless or already known/overly obvious then please be diplomatic about it, don't just flame them... its not their fault, they are just inexperienced.

You can post anything here that relates to development, testing, research or experimentation as well as discussion with others, I will add any information that looks useful or worth preserving or needs testing to the OP. If you want anything at all to be added to the OP just tell me in this thread or PM me and I'll add it ASAP, same goes for if you want something removed for whatever reason.

Useful Information


Here I will put any useful pieces of data or information that could help in researching or experimenting with Yoshi. Tell me if you think anything should be added to this section. This will hopefully be a place to get information about all the aspects of Yoshi as a character as well as data on individual things.

Scatz's Yoshi Frame Data (For which he recieves a cookie :laugh:)




Useful Threads

Here is a collection of threads with some really usefuleally mation...

Yoshi's Story: The Big Book of Yoshi Information
An absolute ton of great information there that will no doubt be a great help.

List of Aerials that Beat Yoshi's Up-Smash
Usmash is an amazing anti-air move so knowing what is capable of beating it is vital information.

Unleashing the Egg
Airbornes thread has some useful information about controller setups and pros and cons of Yoshi.

Yoshi's Best Neutrals/Counterpicks
Discussion of stage counterpicking for Yoshi.

Yoshi Moveset Summaries
The summary thread for all the Yoshi moveset discussions, there is some great input on all Yoshi's moves and some good information to be had... but personally I don't think Utilt is Yoshi's best tilt, and Ftilt and Dsmash are better than made out to be.

Official Yoshi Chain Grab List
Latest information on who we can CG.
Currently in Development/Researching


This section will list things that are currently being experimented on and/or need more testing/research. Some of the stuff here could turn out to be useful and some of it could just be coincicential rubbish...
This is the place to find information about the latest developments as well as what you can do to help.

DR Super Jump

nicalobe posted about something in the Q&A thread about an instant superjump... apparently a few other people had noticed it before (no one bothered to say anything :/).
Bassically it allows you to do the super jump off the ground instantly (without a SH aerial), allowing you to go higher than a standard full hop and double jump.
The input is the same as DR but replace the aerial cancel with an airdodge, the affect is a rising AD and then the ability to DJ again. Timing is apparently same as DR.

Need to look into possible applications.

Original video of superjump (also infinite jumping)



Retreating Pivot Grab

Post in the Brawl Tactical discussion is here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231916
Along with a video of the tech demonstarted with Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tq0ubY58tI

This looks like it would be really useful for Yoshi given the advantages of his pivot grab already.
The procedure for doing this is explained in the thread but bassically you are just doing a pivot grab out of a true pivot to obtain a retreating pivot grab.
Because of the range of this and distance this builds between the opponant it isn't very punishable and seeing as how fast Yoshis pivot grab is anyway.
Can be used out of a Dashdance or fox trot.

It would be great if someone got a video up to display the kind of length this gets,


Dragonic Trot/Dragonic Reverse

Ah, the dragonic reverse... love it or hate it but there is work to be done with it.
Notoriously difficult to learn and as a result, not much has been done with it since its discovery. I encourage everyone to try and learn this, even if its usefulness is limited it is deffinatly has uses and is of value to Yoshi.
More testing will be done as I and hopefully others try to get this into regular use.
Here is the original thread with discussion on it and its dicovery along with Scatz tutorial on how to perfect it in the first post: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175060
Another video from scatz showing of some stuff with DR/DT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMokzyhm3PI
And the original video with the DT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_D9B5FX2A
There also a good bit about the DT in the Big Book of Yoshi Information in the useful threads section.

Some videos of DR being used effectively in actual matches are what is really needed here.


Other Stuff

Scatz was asking about getting a chart together on what Yoshis Double Jump can take and what it can't, heres the post:
Has anyone done a chart about what moves Yoshi can take during his DJ? If anyone has done this, plz PM me the list, as I'm really interested in it right now.
So it would be great if we could get together and do this as a collective effort, anyone willing to help?
 

Airborne

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
1,411
Location
YO MARVEL Lexington, Kentucky
this needs to be linked in the thread of threads..... once i can start playing my wii again (that is, when school isn't being a *****...), i'll start testing out stuff like a monster... and since nicalobe is starting to find fun in this testing like other researchers, the midwest kings will be at it. =P
 

Depster

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
2,260
Location
Walla Walla
Actually I did make a topic when I found the Super Jump via DR, but it got bumped off the board. I'd go ahead and call it proven to be true.
 

nicalobe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
230
Location
Ohio
I thnk this thread should definatly be stickied, mainly as a way for Yoshi mainers to easily find the AT's of Yoshi. It's already hard enough trying to search through countless pages of sometimes pointless threads in order to find out whether a technique is useful or has been discovered or not. With an organized and updated list (as I'm sure Auroreon would be able to handle), the search for how to do various techniques will be easier. Such important information into Yoshi's metagame pretty much demonds to be a stickied thread,so long as it is constantly updated. ( I'm calling you out on this Auroreon.:)) If not stickied, then this thread should atleast mentioned in the Big Book of Yoshi Information or whatever that thread is called.
 

auroreon

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
583
Don't worry this will be kept up to date with the latest stuff =). (So long as I'm made aware of it).
I'll try to finish the OP when I get back from college.
As long as we keep this bumped it probably wouldn't be essential to sticky it (have to be careful we don't clutter up the board with stickies again lol), I'll do my part to keep this going.

Can anyone think of a decent name for the DR superjump thing?
 

JackieRabbit5

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
419
Location
Texas
whoa sounds like a cool technique i'd like to see a vid of it...
i would probably use it to get high enough to start throwing eggs at an enemy who was hit way up high coming back to the stage
 

Depster

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
2,260
Location
Walla Walla
I like that. I only referred to it as a revamped super jump in my thread, so it maybe does need a name. DH is just fine.
 

Chaco

Never Logs In
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
12,136
Location
NC
I dislike the Draconic Names.

They're stupid. Let's name it...

My Yoshi is on Crack and has MAD Hops.

MYioCahMH.
 

bigman40

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
3,859
Location
Just another day.
whoa sounds like a cool technique i'd like to see a vid of it...
i would probably use it to get high enough to start throwing eggs at an enemy who was hit way up high coming back to the stage
I'll probably get videos of me using it for experimentation at tourneys (friendlies).
 

auroreon

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
583
I'll probably get videos of me using it for experimentation at tourneys (friendlies).
Thanks, that would be great.

Having tested it a bit, it seems much easier than the DR as the timing feels more forgiving. Since this is pretty easy to consistently do I think it is deffinatly somethng that we should all learn because even though it is very situational, its always good to know its there and you can use it when the correct oppertunity arises.
Should be doing some more testing with it in friendlys soon... maybe we can see if we can find some useful specific applications for it.

Also going to add loads more to the OP soon.
 

auroreon

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
583
Updated the OP, have you guys tried out the retreating pivot grab?
Think it has any advantages over DR > Pivot grab?
 

Chaco

Never Logs In
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
12,136
Location
NC
No, DR>Pivot ***** it. Scat looked at it and said that, then I tried it and agreed.

Retreating Pivot affects all characters but us, we already had something much better. But does anyone use it? Hardly, but it's worth it. You start seeing them do this...just remember, you can one up it.
 
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