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Lucario vs. ICs EXPORT

Timbers

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Ice Climbers



Matchup:

60:40

General info:

Quote:
ICs want to grab you. Bad ICs will spam grab until it works. Good ICs know when the time is right. I'll say right now that it IS possible to not get grabbed by ICs. Their grabrange is THAT bad. They have no real, legitimate grab setups. They may try to have Nana blizzard you and move in for the grab, but I believe that if you SDI up and away, you will avoid the grab. Spacing is key, as you don't want to put yourself in a position to get grabbed. Another quick note: don't think you're safe from getting chaingrabbed because you're on a small platform or something. As you all know, any grab from any place will more than likely kill you, unless they mess up of course.
Quote:
To quote from the IC match-up thread:

Our ground game > Lucario's ground game
Our air game < Lucario's air game
Sadly, Lucario's air game > our ground game
What to avoid:

Quote:
If Hylian showed anything, it's that at the highest level of play, 1 grab = 1 stock.
How to win:

Quote:
Bottom line: Your goal is to separate them. I'm pretty sure dair will separate them well, so keep that in mind. Once you get them separate, for the love of god don't go for Popo, go for Nana. Nana is extremely stupid, and extremely easy to kill. Get her off the stage and it's pretty much a done deal. Make sure Popo doesn't save her. Just keep them away from each other. Once Nana is dead, the stock is pretty much yours.
Quote:
I agree, Luca's Dair is great for keeping the climbers seperate and for sure, kill nana beofre even bothering with popo, she is stupid. Once Nana is out of the picture, one good hit off the map and popo is done. I usually seperate them with a dair, slam nana off and grab popo, holding him until she falls. Ice locking is annoying but just DI off the edge and get it over with, worst case scenario is you took 20 damage and are closer to your next aura upgrade. If you keep them seperate, this shouldnt be a incredibly difficult match. Chain grabbing is a pain for everyone but again, dair really helps in this match up.
Helpful tips:

Quote:
If there is a platform then just stay on it lol

I think Lucario's dair beats IC's Uair so it's pretty hard for them to beat our platform camping.
Quote:
Oh, important information on the deathgrabs:
1. You can tech the dthrow->Nana fair spike after the 2nd one (from 0%. I forget the exact percent where it's techable). Anything after the 2nd can be teched, and should be teched.
2. If, for some reason, ICs ice lock you, make your way away from them and off the stage. It's the quickest way to get out of it.
3. If they chaingrab you to the edge to go for a spike, you can DI towards the stage so they only spike you onto the ground. Please keep that in mind, it's very important. And again, you can tech the spike off the ground. Doooo iitttt.
4. Remember that without Nana, the deathgrabs cannot be done. If Popo grabs you and you see that Nana is far away, running back to Popo, smash your **** controller. Break out before she makes it to Popo, don't give up because you've been grabbed.
5. See number 3.
Stages:

Quote:
On the topic of stages, I think Frigate is a decent stage. Really the best choice would be Rainbow Cruise, but that's not so hot for us either. It's kind of hard to say which stage would be best against ICs, any place that moves or changes can help though. Any chances you have to separate them is extremely useful.
Quote:
Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.

Credit goes to Red Ryu for composing this export.
 

hichez50

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how do you avoid getting baited by Ice block.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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This is the old discussion, actually lol. Their is new information for this MU, it just hasn't been put into an export yet.
 

xxpatgxx

Smash Journeyman
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I'm sure people from MD/VA can give us a clear consensus of the matchup as they have a ranked ICS and Lucario on their PRs.
 

Zucco

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May 1, 2009
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this matchup better stay as 60:40! I talked and played friendlies with lain and even he agrees that lucario wins. Lee also agreed with me when we talked about it briefly. If Lain and Meep(2 best iceys) and Junebug, Lee, and myself(a few of the top lucarios) all think Lucario wins, I really cant see how you can agrue.
 

Zucco

Smash Master
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I would think battlefield would be a good choice because of all the platform camping you can do there.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Sep 9, 2008
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BF is actually the strongest stage. Then Smashville.
 

hichez50

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this matchup better stay as 60:40! I talked and played friendlies with lain and even he agrees that lucario wins. Lee also agreed with me when we talked about it briefly. If Lain and Meep(2 best iceys) and Junebug, Lee, and myself(a few of the top lucarios) all think Lucario wins, I really cant see how you can agrue.
Has there been talk about chaning the match up ratio?
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Has there been talk about changing the match up ratio?
Some people thought ICs win this.

At one point the ICs invited us over to their boards where multiple IC mains said they won the MU where many were ignoring some important input.

Even if Phil changes his opinion on MU's he still had valid input that was mostly ignored with some people saying, "NO YOUR WRONG!!!" or others who were playing the theory game way too much.

Well things changed since more Lucarios were winning key matches with Lee Martin and others beating high level IC mains more consistently. People are starts to gravitate towards even/Lucario's favor.
 
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