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Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs MK
- Thread starter Kataefi
- Start date
MrEh
Smash Hero
Zelda's got nothing here. It's a combination of a lot of things that makes this a really bad matchup for Zelda.
First of all, Zelda's smashes can stop MK's approaches. The problem is that Zelda's smashes are so easily telegraphed and are very predictable.
If MK approaches from the ground, what are you going to do? Fsmash.
If MK approaches from above, what are you going to do? Usmash.
MK could just walk up to you, wait until you Fsmash, and then punish you during the lag. Likewise, he could jump at you, bait the Usmash, and then Dair you. And before anyone says "but Zelda can bait too," I know she can. The problem is that Zelda's has less options then MK, and slower and laggier attacks. That makes her attacks more punishable, predictable, and therefore more susceptible to baiting. The problem that this creates is that MK forces you to use your smashes, because he'll just approach with tilts and aerials otherwise. Because he has the range advantage, you're forced to use the longest ranged attack you have, which happens to be your smashes, to defend yourself. It's not that using her Fsmash and Usmash is a bad defensive option. The problem is that it's her only defensive option. Characters like Bowser have things have Fortress OoS to protect themselves. Characters like Snake have grenades and his uber tilts. Zelda has none of this.
Zelda having piss poor approach options makes this difficult as well. Saying something like "lol Zelda doesn't have to approach because she has Din's" is just crazy. If MK gets an early lead, he can easily avoid Din's, and therefore force you to approach. Having said that, how do you approach? The answer depends on your opponent, but Zelda doesn't have any good approach really.
Approaching from the air is ********, since MK could just decide to challenge your aerials with his. Or he could just shield and punish. This is a very ******** idea. Don't do it.
Approaching from the ground is the only viable option you have, and that's still not a good option at all. How you should approach, again, depends on your opponent and how they react. Dash attacks and running grabs have their place, but it's up to you to find out when to use it. Both of which are very punishable, so you need to make sure that it hits. Other options are thinks like walking into Fsmashes, or Dtilts. My favorite option is running into a shield, watching your opponent's reaction, and acting accordingly. If they spot dodge, use Zelda's freakishly slow grab to grab them. Something like an OoS Dtilt or Dsmash would also work here as well. But generally speaking, MK will usually have superior options while defending himself, and he can punish every single mistake that you throw at him. If he spot dodges any attack you throw at him, prepare to be punished with a grab or a tilt. If he shields your attack, prepare to be hit with aerial or get grabbed. He can even intercept your approaches with tilts, and he can always just decide to Nado through most of your approach options if he wants.
Another problem in this match is killing. Yes, Zelda is freakishly strong. The problem is that MK can make it extremely difficult for Zelda to even touch him, and MK can KO Zelda far easier then Zelda can kill him. Note I said easier, not earlier. There's a difference. Zelda really only has 4 good ways to kill MK. Lightning Kicks, Uair, Fresh Usmash, and a Fresh Dsmash at very high percents. MK has several reliable ways to kill Zelda, and it's far easier for him to set up his kill moves then it is for you. MK can use his Dsmash, UpB, and he can gimp you.
Zelda's recovery is so bad that even if you don't get edgehogged, you're probably going to be punished for using it afterward with an aerial or MK's upB. If MK knocks you a large distance offstage, Zelda has literally no options. In that case, you can only choose to teleport and grab the ledge, or teleport above it. Either way, it's bad, since MK can edgehog you in the first scenario, and he can probably punish you in the 2nd. (unless you're close enough to the stage where you can teleport a sizable distance past him) If you're teleporting below edge, then you're screwed. In short, Zelda's recovery sucks, and I wouldn't be surprised if MK got at least 1 kill a match just by gimping her.
I think it's 30-70. But that's just me. :/
First of all, Zelda's smashes can stop MK's approaches. The problem is that Zelda's smashes are so easily telegraphed and are very predictable.
If MK approaches from the ground, what are you going to do? Fsmash.
If MK approaches from above, what are you going to do? Usmash.
MK could just walk up to you, wait until you Fsmash, and then punish you during the lag. Likewise, he could jump at you, bait the Usmash, and then Dair you. And before anyone says "but Zelda can bait too," I know she can. The problem is that Zelda's has less options then MK, and slower and laggier attacks. That makes her attacks more punishable, predictable, and therefore more susceptible to baiting. The problem that this creates is that MK forces you to use your smashes, because he'll just approach with tilts and aerials otherwise. Because he has the range advantage, you're forced to use the longest ranged attack you have, which happens to be your smashes, to defend yourself. It's not that using her Fsmash and Usmash is a bad defensive option. The problem is that it's her only defensive option. Characters like Bowser have things have Fortress OoS to protect themselves. Characters like Snake have grenades and his uber tilts. Zelda has none of this.
Zelda having piss poor approach options makes this difficult as well. Saying something like "lol Zelda doesn't have to approach because she has Din's" is just crazy. If MK gets an early lead, he can easily avoid Din's, and therefore force you to approach. Having said that, how do you approach? The answer depends on your opponent, but Zelda doesn't have any good approach really.
Approaching from the air is ********, since MK could just decide to challenge your aerials with his. Or he could just shield and punish. This is a very ******** idea. Don't do it.
Approaching from the ground is the only viable option you have, and that's still not a good option at all. How you should approach, again, depends on your opponent and how they react. Dash attacks and running grabs have their place, but it's up to you to find out when to use it. Both of which are very punishable, so you need to make sure that it hits. Other options are thinks like walking into Fsmashes, or Dtilts. My favorite option is running into a shield, watching your opponent's reaction, and acting accordingly. If they spot dodge, use Zelda's freakishly slow grab to grab them. Something like an OoS Dtilt or Dsmash would also work here as well. But generally speaking, MK will usually have superior options while defending himself, and he can punish every single mistake that you throw at him. If he spot dodges any attack you throw at him, prepare to be punished with a grab or a tilt. If he shields your attack, prepare to be hit with aerial or get grabbed. He can even intercept your approaches with tilts, and he can always just decide to Nado through most of your approach options if he wants.
Another problem in this match is killing. Yes, Zelda is freakishly strong. The problem is that MK can make it extremely difficult for Zelda to even touch him, and MK can KO Zelda far easier then Zelda can kill him. Note I said easier, not earlier. There's a difference. Zelda really only has 4 good ways to kill MK. Lightning Kicks, Uair, Fresh Usmash, and a Fresh Dsmash at very high percents. MK has several reliable ways to kill Zelda, and it's far easier for him to set up his kill moves then it is for you. MK can use his Dsmash, UpB, and he can gimp you.
Zelda's recovery is so bad that even if you don't get edgehogged, you're probably going to be punished for using it afterward with an aerial or MK's upB. If MK knocks you a large distance offstage, Zelda has literally no options. In that case, you can only choose to teleport and grab the ledge, or teleport above it. Either way, it's bad, since MK can edgehog you in the first scenario, and he can probably punish you in the 2nd. (unless you're close enough to the stage where you can teleport a sizable distance past him) If you're teleporting below edge, then you're screwed. In short, Zelda's recovery sucks, and I wouldn't be surprised if MK got at least 1 kill a match just by gimping her.
I think it's 30-70. But that's just me. :/
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Thank you for posting a good argument for as to why Zelda does badly against MK.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i have a feeling this is gonna be as depressing as the peach vs MK matchup 
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
I find personally in this matchup that if I can stay grounded it is a pretty close match, but as soon as he gets me in the air my stock is gone...
Stutter-stepped Fsmash is my bread and butter ground game in this matchup, When he gets sick of not being able to get into Zelda's zone easy he will run at you and thats when you grab or pivot grab him. This match gets harder as it goes on, because he has a lot more tricks than you do....
30-70 seems fair.
Stutter-stepped Fsmash is my bread and butter ground game in this matchup, When he gets sick of not being able to get into Zelda's zone easy he will run at you and thats when you grab or pivot grab him. This match gets harder as it goes on, because he has a lot more tricks than you do....
30-70 seems fair.
goodkid
Smash Lord
Its hard to grasp the fact that my main has a 30-70 match-up. I haven't played many high-level MKs so I can't say. I just need to accept Zelda's weaknesses.
MK's F-tilt outranges Zelda's F-smash. It is extremely hard to get inside, so Zelda will be on the defense most of the match. Spot dodge & proper rolling is key to defend yourself. I think spot dodge comes out on frame 1, so use that to your advantage. Its quick and even if you get hit, you'll get hit with the weaker parts of the attack.
Sheik/Zelda is a better option if you want to win. Sheik can get inside easily and the speed of her attacks rival MK's. Sheik has a grab-release pummel on flat-stages & a grab-release DACUS for 30%. Her needles also out-prioritize tornado & his side-b.
MK's F-tilt outranges Zelda's F-smash. It is extremely hard to get inside, so Zelda will be on the defense most of the match. Spot dodge & proper rolling is key to defend yourself. I think spot dodge comes out on frame 1, so use that to your advantage. Its quick and even if you get hit, you'll get hit with the weaker parts of the attack.
Sheik/Zelda is a better option if you want to win. Sheik can get inside easily and the speed of her attacks rival MK's. Sheik has a grab-release pummel on flat-stages & a grab-release DACUS for 30%. Her needles also out-prioritize tornado & his side-b.
MrEh
Smash Hero
You have already said that you have no experience fighting high level Meta Knights. Therefore, anything you say really has no merit.
There was nothing wrong with his post.
Ftilt and Fsmash can get through Zelda... and spotdodging in general avoids the beginning parts of many multi-hitting attacks.
I've edited your post to get rid of that picture, I think it's just unncecessary and intimidating for others that want to post their opinions.
Ftilt and Fsmash can get through Zelda... and spotdodging in general avoids the beginning parts of many multi-hitting attacks.
I've edited your post to get rid of that picture, I think it's just unncecessary and intimidating for others that want to post their opinions.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
Actually I found several things wrong/misinformed. Here's what should be reconsidered.
Saying that spot dodge is key to defending yourself is not a good idea. MK's forward smash ***** spot dodges and even if you shield it in time you can't punish him out of it. Tornado is also another way around spot dodge. That or the MK will just read you, stand there as your spot dodge and grab you for free. It's not hard to do at all.
You also say that it's ok even if you do get hit because it's only the weaker part of the attacks. MK thrives on the small hits to keep his opponents close to him for high pressure offense and arial juggling. Down smashing or Up B spam on Zelda knocking her away and reseting everything is a waste. MK wants to keep you close to him and rack up the damage with the weaker hits first and then efficiently kill you with a relatively fresh smash (f or d) or Up B/Glide Attack. Getting hit by his weaker hits is not a good trade at all.
The key isn't really spot dodging or rolling but more importantly is not to get repetitive. You can not allow MK to get a read on you. Once MK catches on to any habits/tendencies you're all but done. It takes a lot of concentration and thinking ahead to stand even a small chance of keeping up.
About your thoughts on Sheik. I play SniperWorm's Sheik on a weekly basis and here are my thoughts on that.
"Sheik can easily get inside"-No she can't. If anything it's a struggle for Sheik to get inside with anything. MK has no trouble spacing Sheik and keeper her away with air moves and tilts. She can certainly get inside more realistically than Zelda but to say it's easy couldn't be farther from the truth.
"the speed of her attacks rival MKs"-Speed is one thing, but priority and range are another. Her attacks do not instill fear in MK or in many other chars for that matter. MK has nothing to worry about in terms of beating out Sheiks moves. In the long run it's not even close.
"Stuff about grabs/dacus etc"-Good luck grabbing MK. That's all I have to say about that. I'll let SniperWorm elaborate on the Grab release dacus/tilt to upsmash combinations himself since he'll do a better job of explaining.
"Needles"-Even if the Needles stop the tornado that doesn't mean he'll never got to nado you. It's so easy to get sheik in the air and then follow her and scoop her in the nado from below. That and the only time you'll realistically stop the nado is if they choose to charge you with it from across the level. At close range it's not that easy to stop it. MK has so many options that these small little flashes of light mean nothing to him.
I have fought a large number of Zeldas and or Sheiks with MK both off and online. In my personal opinion this match up is a minimum 70-30, but I would like to say that I think it's as bad as 80-20. Zelda/Sheik or both it doesn't really matter. On paper Sheik can "do things" to MK as SniperWorm puts it, but MK still dominates that match up regardless.
GreyFox86
Smash Champion
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xD, I find it very funny that MrEh is the one to post the first post.
Anyways to stay on topic, I've played against two of the top MK's in the nation, though one kinda feel off the map per-say. M2K and Infinity. Both ***** me something fierce.
From I gathered from fighting those two, It's a very bad idea to be in the air with MK. Like Riot said your best bet is to be grounded, but even then your fighting an up hill battle. MK is so fast, with Zelda there is no approach that MK won't see. He could just camp and sit there and only laugh at you while you try to approach. There are so many options that MK has against Zelda just standing still. I'm not trying to say that it's impossible but very difficult.
6-4 MK is what I'm hearing from some, others is 7-3 MK.
IMO I think 7-3 is more realistic at the current moment in time.
Anyways to stay on topic, I've played against two of the top MK's in the nation, though one kinda feel off the map per-say. M2K and Infinity. Both ***** me something fierce.
From I gathered from fighting those two, It's a very bad idea to be in the air with MK. Like Riot said your best bet is to be grounded, but even then your fighting an up hill battle. MK is so fast, with Zelda there is no approach that MK won't see. He could just camp and sit there and only laugh at you while you try to approach. There are so many options that MK has against Zelda just standing still. I'm not trying to say that it's impossible but very difficult.
6-4 MK is what I'm hearing from some, others is 7-3 MK.
IMO I think 7-3 is more realistic at the current moment in time.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I honestly don't know anymore.
There are so many MKs out there that results may vary..... and when I'm fighting tougher ones, I almost always use a combination of Zelda AND sheik anyway.
I will say that hitting with a power aerial is normally all it takes to swing the match in my favour though... but getting one of those isn't always easy... especially the less platforms there are.
My experience with this matchup says --no matter what combination of zelda and sheik you may be using-- know what moves are safe when and with what spacing. The best way to lose is to get greedy and sloppy. This will more than likely be a long hard battle even if you DO win.
There are so many MKs out there that results may vary..... and when I'm fighting tougher ones, I almost always use a combination of Zelda AND sheik anyway.
I will say that hitting with a power aerial is normally all it takes to swing the match in my favour though... but getting one of those isn't always easy... especially the less platforms there are.
My experience with this matchup says --no matter what combination of zelda and sheik you may be using-- know what moves are safe when and with what spacing. The best way to lose is to get greedy and sloppy. This will more than likely be a long hard battle even if you DO win.
So it's generally swaying around 70+:30- so let's come up with a few strategies! For example:
- How should Zelda zone him? What if she had the percent or stock lead... how could she make things difficult for him?
- Offstage situations... how to recover and look at all the options...
- What moves CAN she punish, if any? i.e. shield grabs, OoS aerials etc etc...
- etc etc etc...
I just want to have some amazing strategies against the hardest character in the game =D This is MK we're talking about people... 60:40 was blind optimism but the fact is... unless you ditto him, or go Ally-stylee with snake, you're encountering seeeroius problems ahead! >.<
- How should Zelda zone him? What if she had the percent or stock lead... how could she make things difficult for him?
- Offstage situations... how to recover and look at all the options...
- What moves CAN she punish, if any? i.e. shield grabs, OoS aerials etc etc...
- etc etc etc...
I just want to have some amazing strategies against the hardest character in the game =D This is MK we're talking about people... 60:40 was blind optimism but the fact is... unless you ditto him, or go Ally-stylee with snake, you're encountering seeeroius problems ahead! >.<
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
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70-30 for MK. I picked up Zelda on a whim a week ago and I'm fairly proficient with her already. I played against M2K at Apex with her twice. Didn't end well. But hey, at least I got a stock off of him.
GreyFox86
Smash Champion
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As far as OoS options to punish, the only ones I were Shuttle Loop from the edge with an Usmash. I've played DM's MK and just couldn't punish correctly cause his attacks push you just enough away to be safe from a couter attack. If you get the PS, then do whatever on the ground, but make sure your quick about it cause most times when he is done with his Dsmash, there is another behind it.
I've had to learn the hard way against my friend, JUJ (pernounced Judge....like in Panda's sig.) that Dsmash's are quick to deal with and there are always 2 Dsmash's. Never more, Never less (twiked from Star Wars - Yoda)
There's no point trying to OoS LK cause he is too small for that, though I'm not sure if a buffered Bair will catch him or not.
I'm not sure about anything else. Sorry if my info is deemed useless.
I've had to learn the hard way against my friend, JUJ (pernounced Judge....like in Panda's sig.) that Dsmash's are quick to deal with and there are always 2 Dsmash's. Never more, Never less (twiked from Star Wars - Yoda)
There's no point trying to OoS LK cause he is too small for that, though I'm not sure if a buffered Bair will catch him or not.
I'm not sure about anything else. Sorry if my info is deemed useless.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I like to use Dtilt to lead into a smash. It's better than blindly throwing smashes out at least.
incidentally, I've popped a metaknight onto a higher platform with Dtilt and followed up with a lightning kick for the KO, but I wouldn't call that technique exactly reliable. It required a lot of luck on my part I think.
incidentally, I've popped a metaknight onto a higher platform with Dtilt and followed up with a lightning kick for the KO, but I wouldn't call that technique exactly reliable. It required a lot of luck on my part I think.
If only the dtilt > buffered bair worked on him =( His body is fat on trip but it just misses him, same with a few others of his body type.
Cool! Good to see others picking her up... even if it is to test her out or whatever... how should we zone him? What is he scared of? Any reliable ways to beat out his most infamous moves like the tornado, dsmash etc... ?
Cool! Good to see others picking her up... even if it is to test her out or whatever... how should we zone him? What is he scared of? Any reliable ways to beat out his most infamous moves like the tornado, dsmash etc... ?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Sheik's needles beat tornado, as does sheik's vanish.
With zelda, we have a few perfectly placed hitboxes that can, but I try not to take it on with her.
With zelda, we have a few perfectly placed hitboxes that can, but I try not to take it on with her.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
For zoning there's not much. Even if Zelda lags out of his arial and smash range she still is in danger of getting grabbed. Space with forward smash and down tilt as best as possible. Always be aware of where MK is on the stage because you want to play keep away as much as possible.
Zelda has no real lead on MK. I don't feel safe against MK until I've won the game. MK is never out of it. If you do have a fairly healthy stock/percent advantage do not waste it by changing how you play. Going reckless or aggressive especially in tournament is very risky and you could see your lead vanish quickly with a gimp or an edge guard. With any sort of "lead" on Meta Knight...damage DO WANT.
Offstage. "Weather the storm." Just focus on getting back and not getting gimped. Even if you get hit a couple times just be ready to DI it properly so you can live. Don't try anything fancy or flashy unless you're in a desperate situation.
Shield grab his Up B Glide attack if he spaces it wrong. Ummm if he charges f-smash on you I like to come down on him with a nair. If you know where the loop is going to happen you can dair him out of it and it will lose pretty much all the time. Down tilt out of shield is probably the best option. I honestly need to do this much much more against MK.
Against the nado tilt you shield to prevent shield stab. If you properly angle your shield it does not stab you for a very long time. And alot of MKs will hit your shield and then move away slightly and wait for you drop your guard. Don't fall for it. If you do get shield poked try you best to DI above the tornado and dair him through it.
Amazing strategies? No way. xD But yeah hope that helps.
MrEh
Smash Hero
DM already picked apart the things wrong with his post, and it was pretty apparent. iirc, Sudai said something about this a long time ago. I think it was him, but it might have been someone else.
"If you don't have any experience, then don't say anything."
I don't mind when people give their opinions, but Goodkid has a knack for giving advice when he has no idea what he's talking about.
Fsmash. Nado.
Both of these attacks beat spot dodges and are safe on block. Generally speaking, if you spot dodge too much against MK, he'll destroy you. It's never a good idea.
And funny. ^^
goodkid
Smash Lord
Ok, ok, put the guns down.
That's why were to doing the re-discussions, to re-inform the misinformed like me 
If we limited this discussion to only people who have played top-level MKs, then only include 5 or less Zeldas. I'm just putting my thoughts and most of what I say, I assume everything is implied. I may have to change that since many just read whats on paper instead of considering the underlying meanings.I may not be right about everything, but everyone has different experiences. Of course MK's tornado/drill attacks beat out spot-dodge. I mean proper use of rolling/spotdodge. When I said that Sheik's attack-speed rivals MKs, many should already know that Sheik has low priority & range. I just like to list the positives while forgetting the negatives
.I'll talk about more tactics later, but a neat little thing that I do is if you discover they like to dash grab after you f-smash, just change it up and D-smash or d-tilt right after because its fast enough to intercept his grab.
Another thing that I do is teleport safely to the ground when your in the air. Instead of dangling hopelessly and letting him wait till you airdodge & **** you with aerials or tornado, teleport to the ground. Don't let him **** you for your mistake. You can keep him from the pay-back by teleporting to the ground. Just make sure you teleport away, but if he happens to get to close, since you hopefully teleported with no lag, roll or spot dodge away. Don't rely on this, because you don't MK to figure you out. This can possibly work w/ the Love Jump/fast-falled love jump from my exp. More later, we need a good game plan to win
Lets just make it a goal to have some strategies that we can use against MK. Lets make it a goal to know our options and MKs options. We also need to make it a goal to attract more Zelda players and make our discussions more enjoyable, intellectual, and educate our players and make them beastly so we can show the true tri-force that exist in Zelda.
MrEh
Smash Hero
If MK is baiting your Fsmash correctly, there is no way to avoid the inevitable dash grab. If your Fsmash hits him, then you're fine, since it's usually safe on block provided it was spaced. If you miss, then you're going to be punished in some form. Nado, grab, etc.
Zelda's UpB is so slow and easily telegraphed that teleporting to the ground is useless. If you use Zelda's UpB in the air, there's only one possible direction you can go: down. That makes it very predictable, since no one in their right mind would teleport sideways, or god forbid, upwards. If MK sees you UpB, then all he has to do is drop down and Dair you when you hit the ground. If MK is close to you, he can just hit you before you teleport.
It's a bad idea. Don't do it.
Zelda's Options
1. Fsmash and hope MK runs into it
2. Hope that your opponent is ********
MK's Options
1. Everything
Too bad Zelda sucks. lol
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
She does not suck! She is fantastic and a great character... it's just that everyone else is more so.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
While I see where you were going with this, Goodkid, MrEh is right..... it's not a good idea. FW leaves you open for a little over half a second, which is enough time for MK to get to you and buttrape you from below. Even if you do get the FW off: you do technically have more than one direction you can go (down, down-right, down-left, etc.), but all of them are punishable since you'll be stuck in cooldown lag for another half a second.
Half a second might as well be an eternity vs. MK. Dash grab > ****, gg.
I think this should go in the matchup summary.
I'm so serious.
sniperworm
Smash Ace
I would add stuff about Sheik vs MK, but it's not particularly relevant in a Zelda vs MK discussion, so I'll refrain from posting anything about that unless someone wants to know.
I don't really have much to add because DM covered pretty much everything I would've said.
I don't really have much to add because DM covered pretty much everything I would've said.
Unfortunately, this is fairly accurate.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
this is a sad sad matchup, like pikaxfox
goodkid
Smash Lord
Well teleporting to the ground works more on-stage than off-stage. I meant using teleport when MK is far enough away where he can't punish you in the start-up, then roll away if he happens to read your landing. It really doesn't matter much, I'll do whatever works for me & if it doesn't then I'll be a good player & change it up. There's no rule book on how to play this game, but there are some good things to do & some bad. I'll play my way & show you how it can work.
Zelda sucks in comparison to all of the other chars above her. Zelda/Sheik is better and more viable than solo Zelda. They have potential to win something big.
Ochobobo
Smash Lord
Farore's has horrible ending lag, even a Warlock Punch can punish it, lol.
If even Ganondorf can punish Farore's Wind, then MetaKnight definitely has no problem.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Uhhh.....
Goodkid, any MK who lets you get away with FW'ing around the stage more than once is a scrub.
gm jack
Smash Lord
Need more mindgames then
. Seriously though, it seems the only way to stand a chance in this matchup is to force them to make a series of horrible errors. I would think the only way to stand a half decent chance would be to play Sheik/Zelda, and try and use the superior speed and mobility of Sheik to damage rack with needle and quick combo's any time the MK wiffs an attack (not a lot of time, but the Ftilt comes out on frame 5 and sets up for a lock, so patience may create openings), and then swap to Zelda once the early GRUST kill window passes in hope for MK doing something stupid again and hitting a fresh Fsmash.
Still doesn't look at all close to even though.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Orly? Show me the way then, Oh FW Master.Need more mindgames then
Mindgames don't make up for the fact that FW is hella laggy and punishable. That's just fact. You may get it off once or *gasp* twice! but it's not a viable strategy vs. MK.
If you were being sarcastic, ignore this post.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
If MK reads your landing you will not get the chance to roll away or do anything. You will be punished in the cool down no question.
Zelda lacks the depth and options to just say "oh if this doesn't work I'll do something else." There's only so much Zelda can do especially against a character that is as fast versitile and powerful as MK. What you're asking of Zelda is unrealistic.
Against MK the less you have to use Up B the better. I cannot stress how important DI is against MK. Getting hit upwards to the corner as opposed to straight to the side is important so that you save your up B until you absolutely have to resort to it.
I strongly encourage everyone to heed my words that against MK you have to play really safe and wait for him to screw up. Any other strategy is just not going to work trust me on this. On paper this match up looks bad but in reality it's much much worse especially if the MK player knows about Zelda and how she works.
It's not an auto lose but Zelda cannot afford to screw up at all I'm not kidding.
MrEh
Smash Hero
It's definitely winnable, but in the same way that Bowser vs Dedede is winnable.
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it going to happen? Hell no.
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it going to happen? Hell no.
It should be quoted at the end of the matchup summary. lol
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i FW against DarkM's MK before >.>
but that was only one time.
but that was only one time.
MrEh
Smash Hero
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yesh Wifi
seriously though if your going to use it, its a one trick pony, and never do it again : /
at this point im not even thinking of going Zelda against MK anyway.....
seriously though if your going to use it, its a one trick pony, and never do it again : /
at this point im not even thinking of going Zelda against MK anyway.....
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
sidenote:
maybe I'm just that much better with zelda compared to my other characters, but Zelda (or zelda/sheik at least) is about one of the only characters that I can reliably beat metaknight with.
That's why more than 70:30 seems off to me. I'm not debating it. I'm just saying that I would have never suggested that.
maybe I'm just that much better with zelda compared to my other characters, but Zelda (or zelda/sheik at least) is about one of the only characters that I can reliably beat metaknight with.
That's why more than 70:30 seems off to me. I'm not debating it. I'm just saying that I would have never suggested that.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
What the?! GTFO my thread.
Jk, but that is.... kinda strange. I just go Pika.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
The other characters I play at all are:
Peach, Ness, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Samus, ZSS, Link and falco (not good with falco yet)
if that clears some things up. The only other good experiences I have really are with link and jiggly. Link because most MKs I've played haven't had an idea how to respond to the projectiles... once they figure that out though, he gets wrecked. Jiggly..... no idea why I do well. Probably because they can't edgeguard her.
Peach, Ness, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Samus, ZSS, Link and falco (not good with falco yet)
if that clears some things up. The only other good experiences I have really are with link and jiggly. Link because most MKs I've played haven't had an idea how to respond to the projectiles... once they figure that out though, he gets wrecked. Jiggly..... no idea why I do well. Probably because they can't edgeguard her.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Well that makes sense.
All of these characters get ***** by MK. The only exception would be Falco and Jiggs. (yes, Jiggs)
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
well then that would explain why jiggz is one of my three characters that doesn't get ***** (zelda/sheik and link being te other two.)
and I am suck with falco ATM, so I know he does okay... but not in my hands