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How to prevent being juggled/gimped/get back to the ground

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Diddy has several options for not getting back on the stage and in control, I gaurantee this will instantly improve your mk matchup or any other character that limits the air well. First I'll start with the obvious things.

Air-dodge:

This is self-explanatory. Diddy's airdodge is quite good, but most better players will bait it out and punish it. Only use it if you feel you must, otherwise don't bother it's dangerous. Choosing what direction to DI while airdodging also takes sense and reaction to what they are doing at that very moment. Metaknight will eat you alive if you spam airdodge.

Side B/Reverse peanut gun cancel retreat:

So the side b is pretty obvious why it's good, if you are trying to get back onto the ground and they are directly under you baiting out some kind of mistake or charging a smash, just side b away and problem solved. The peanut gun canceling does a similar thing just not on the level of the side b. However, for the reverse peanut gun cancel to work you must be going at full speed left or right before you turn it around to get the momentum boost. It will give you a slight push, at least out of range to get hit with an average-sized smash. The bonus to this is that you still have your side b if you reverse peanut gun cancel, so if they chase you right after then you can side b and **** their face! A great option with the RPGC is when you're DI'ing back onstage over the ledge is to use it to then reverse momentum in the other direction and fall down grabbing it.

The FAIR:

If god were to kick something, it would be as powerful as diddy's fair. This aerial is so ****ing good. It's the best mix-up to be unpredictable with, because of it's priority it will most oftenly beat out other opponent's aerials/always clash with them. If you're offstage high up in the air and coming back down while metaknight is trying to be gay and hit you with something, just fair his face. It will make them more cautious about gimping you and I gaurantee you will get back onstage without taking as much damage if you use this against him. Just be careful, their nair will clash with it and it will kill you at high percents if you attempt this. Also in the same situation for using the side b (if they are directly under you on the ground or slightly in the air) you can just fast fall and fair their face. It can't be shieldgrabbed with good spacing, but they can still release their shield and dash grab to punish the lag. Just be careful about it and use your smarts when using this aerial.

Nair:

Shut up guys, this aerial sucks so bad and stop overrating it; but it does have some minor use in getting back down to the ground. Because of it's freakishly long-lasting hit box, if someone is trying to bait an airdodge and they're under you you can just nair them and the weaker hit will sometimes pop them up. It will even clash with characters who have small range, like pikachu or a metaknight's crappy-spaced uair. It's risky, but sometimes worth it.

Dair (yes, dair):

I can't tell you how many times people try to approach me from below in the air thinking I have no options for hitting them vertically. This is situational as hell, but sometimes the dair will just spike them lol. Yes it has landing lag, but they won't expect it to have happend and not react fast enough if ever to punish it. Don't try to use this against some uair with massive range like ZSS's uair for example, it's better vs falco because it will clash with his.

Gimp-prevention recovery tactics:

If you ever have played a really good lucario, marth, metaknight, or kirby you will notice yourself sometimes getting frustrated while trying to recover. If you mix up the order of when you jump, or side b it can help... but not so much. If you are mid-height above the stage trying to recover, you can just flip kick. Since it has so much priority it will either hit them away and you'll get back onstage safely, or it will clash with their aerial. The general idea however though is to just side b AWAY from the stage and then charge your barrels. You can either aim your barrels to the ledge or so you land in the center of the stage. It risks being punished either way but it really doesn't matter because the punishments won't be bad at all. Just DI the smash or grab if you are punished while landing in the center of the stage. The final thing I will say about recovering is if you have good DI and you are knocked into the upper KO zone corner of the screen and survive, you can reverse peanut gun charge (don't cancel it.) Charge it all the way up and then release it to get a decent boost towards the stage, and then side b. I wouldn't suggest attempting to side b grab people offstage, because they have learned from me and will always just aerial it away. Side b only as a last resort or if you need to, otherwise DON'T and just charge your barrels.

I believe that's all :) Long read, sorry if it's boring.
 

SRTM

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
645
Location
Ontario, Canada
Cool. I use the fair all the time. But, 50% of the time I get grabbed when I hit the stage v.v
Most of my deaths occur from being edgeguarded, as that is my weakest point with diddy. Especially marths who spam fsmash right near the edge. You cant go above them, or roll onto the stage. :mad: Same with falcos down b counter.
My only solution is to have a banana in hand, while hanging on the ledge, and to jump off the stage and chuck it at them when you get the chance. Letting go of the stage and u-airing or f-airing works SOMETIMES too. Just gotta be really careful? Any tips, other than rocketing into the center of the stage?
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Cool. I use the fair all the time. But, 50% of the time I get grabbed when I hit the stage v.v
Most of my deaths occur from being edgeguarded, as that is my weakest point with diddy. Especially marths who spam fsmash right near the edge. You cant go above them, or roll onto the stage. :mad: Same with falcos down b counter.
My only solution is to have a banana in hand, while hanging on the ledge, and to jump off the stage and chuck it at them when you get the chance. Letting go of the stage and u-airing or f-airing works SOMETIMES too. Just gotta be really careful? Any tips?
Just be more patient, or side b away and charge your rocket barrels. You don't have to struggle that hard to get back on, you have alot of time.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
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BRoomer
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Another tidbit I've been tinkering with recently:

If you get hit during your Up-B with your barrels out then you go into a brief stun animation.

However, if you Up-B and arc it so that your barrels disappear, and you get hit after this happens, then you suffer no stun animation and can immediately recover again.

Basically, sometimes it is useful to, instead of aiming straight for the edge/stage, instead, aim like halfway between you and the stage, and then if you get hit it will be after your barrels disappear (even though it is still during your up-b aninatiom which doesn't end until you hit the ground/edge).

Hope that made some sense.

Oh,Another thing: reverse peanut cancel > nana pull > side B/jump/barrels/whatever. the nana pull move a banana toward the stage roughly on the same path as your recovery and provides cover. Very situational but sometimes helpful.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
Another tidbit I've been tinkering with recently:

If you get hit during your Up-B with your barrels out then you go into a brief stun animation.

However, if you Up-B and arc it so that your barrels disappear, and you get hit after this happens, then you suffer no stun animation and can immediately recover again.

Basically, sometimes it is useful to, instead of aiming straight for the edge/stage, instead, aim like halfway between you and the stage, and then if you get hit it will be after your barrels disappear (even though it is still during your up-b aninatiom which doesn't end until you hit the ground/edge).

Hope that made some sense.

Oh,Another thing: reverse peanut cancel > nana pull > side B/jump/barrels/whatever. the nana pull move a banana toward the stage roughly on the same path as your recovery and provides cover. Very situational but sometimes helpful.
the arc thing only happens during the last part frames of the rocket barrels though doesn't it?
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
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:190:
platforms and just grabbing the edge of the stage is always the safest option :\
and yes nair is beast goes through airdodges and spotdodges and great out of shield and good setup for followups
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
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Player-1: you lose your barrels once you reach the precipice of the up-b (basically when you switch from upwards momentum to downwards momentum you lose your barrels). So, if you learn to arc correctly, you can aim to have your barrels disappear well before you even reach the stage. It is situational where this is actually a better option then just shooting for the stage, I've found that if MK drops beneith the edge and is coming from the side that this is great, you arc over them, and when they try to punish the second half of the up-b (the only part that is actually reachable to them) then you get to recover again with no lag.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
Good ****. Getting back to the ground has always been an annoying thing for me, especially since the main person I play with uses MK and Marth.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
It's only good onstage after a short hop back air or at very low percents to combo into a utilt. Otherwise absolute trash! ^_^
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
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Montreal, QC
I gotta agree with ADHD on the Nair here. I only use it after a SH Bair. And it was Le_Thien who gave me the idea too in his vids vs Bwett :laugh:
 

The Sauce Boss

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
766
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I was actually going to make a thread asking for help on avoiding gimps. I am getting gimped way too often recently.

I think what I am starting to realize, is that the majority of the time it is better to recover high (onto the stage) with diddy. Most of the time I get gimped it is because I come in too low and get my barrels blown up/off. If you recover onto the stage you will probably get punished by a dash attack or something, but it is worth it to avoid the risk of losing a stock.
 

Gnes

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
3,666
Location
In Another Dimension...
Wait...are we seriously talking about nair???

At WHOBO i used a nair after I predicted Hanson's air dodge...his response..."NAAAIIIIIRRRRRR?!?!?!"

The only use i find for nair is after meta's dash attack, but usually i just smash DI down and tech away so i dont utilize it too much.
 

Le_THieN

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
1,209
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Shine Blockaz Central
LOL, I was so impressed because I really thought I was the only person in this space-time continuum that cared about N-air. GNESS TOO GOOD

I originally came up with B-air > N-air at low percents against Ally. It works against dummies.

Other than that, I use N-air all the time. It kills pretty reliably at around 638%.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
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Nair stuff I do:

At low percent you can Nair > Dair someone if they are off the stage, basically follow a character who is of the stage and near the edge like Snake or Falco (works best on heavies), drop off the stage, nair, jump, dair.

Nair platforms: this is probably the best thing an nair is for, imo. basically if you get someone to land on a platform you can cover the area of an entire platform like on BF by short hop > nair. Your hit box stays out to cover every single concievable area of surface that the platform has (unlike all your other attacks). This is basically only good when you can't just F-air the hell out of someone teching a platform, but I've also found its good just to pop them up > u throw nana > uair.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
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Rainbow Cruise
I originally came up with B-air > N-air at low percents against Ally. It works against dummies.

Other than that, I use N-air all the time. It kills pretty reliably at around 638%.
Well I don't think it's fair for you to say 'I originally came up with B-air > N-air' because I've been using it for as long as I can remember now, but saying you came up with it by yourself or something a long those lines is fine.

But yeah, nair is a situational move, but it's so **** sexy when you use it, you get...like...3 stocks off your opponent for hitting him once with it.
 
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