How to Deal with Annoying Enemy Projectiles ~ Week 2 ~ ROB Laser/Gyro

SuSa · May 19, 2009

Diddy Kong
Bananas
The single most annoying slip in this game.

Conclusions:

1. If it hits your shield, jump from shield (don't shield drop) and airdodge to catch it.
2. Use dash attack to pick up bananas.
3. Utilize the bananas against the Diddy Kong! Don't just throw it offstage!
4. Yea, Snake has a glide toss - I recently found out it's pretty decent. The timing is just slow. Use the glide toss when you can to avoid situations or to get a better toss at Diddy Kong.
5. Spamming grenades or focusing on them gets in the way and overall just hurts you. If you're having problems with Banana's don't add Pineapples. This is enlightened by none other then DMG in this post.
6. When using a banana, try to space the throw to allow a follow up. If you can't, then simply hold onto the banana until you can. Close range - ftilt , medium range - boost grab/dash attack, far range - DACUS

R.O.B.
Laser
IMA FIRIN' MAH LAZ0R!

1. Powershield
2. Spotdodge

Gyro
And it goes around and around and around and around....

Dash attack to pick it up off the ground
Dash attack or airdodge when ROB launches it at you
Shielding lets ROB fire another shortly after - so avoid shielding it.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 19, 2009

FP. 3 new threads today.

napZzz · May 19, 2009

Diddy's are catching on to when people catch it off the shield, try to avoid that if its a good one they will probably catch on to what you are doing and punish

Mortar slide seems to work well at pickign them up and getting away depending on your location.

There are probably different follow ups for throwing a banana at him depending on your distance, if you can you can probably ftilt or grab usually, maybe contact mortar slide for some decent damage. idk.

DMG · May 19, 2009

Snake has a lot of options to deal with Diddy's banana's. Something quite useful I noticed was that Snake has an easier time dealing with banana's if he isn't fooling around with grenades. Banana's interfere with Grenades a lot.

If you throw a grenade at him and he tosses a banana right at you, the grenade can explode if it hits the banana and damage you. If you shield drop a grenade/have one lying near you and he tosses a banana, it can explode from getting hit there too. Also with a grenade near you, it's harder to catch the banana because the grenade will sometimes be in the way and you will pick that up instead of the banana, and then trip on the banana (if you are lucky, the grenade will not blow up while you are tripped).

I've noticed I do better vs Diddy when I use Snake without grenades and that other Snakes do better vs my Diddy without grenades.

SuSa · May 19, 2009

dr.mario guy said:
Snake has a lot of options to deal with Diddy's banana's. Something quite useful I noticed was that Snake has an easier time dealing with banana's if he isn't fooling around with grenades. Banana's interfere with Grenades a lot.

If you throw a grenade at him and he tosses a banana right at you, the grenade can explode if it hits the banana and damage you. If you shield drop a grenade/have one lying near you and he tosses a banana, it can explode from getting hit there too. Also with a grenade near you, it's harder to catch the banana because the grenade will sometimes be in the way and you will pick that up instead of the banana, and then trip on the banana (if you are lucky, the grenade will not blow up while you are tripped).

I've noticed I do better vs Diddy when I use Snake without grenades and that other Snakes do better vs my Diddy without grenades.

OMFG it's DMG. I saw you earlier today. :laugh:

Very nice and patient Wario.

Yeah, grenades simply get in the way of the matchup. We have very little time to actually cook them, and if we try to throw them we get into a nanner trap.

Me and a friend came up with a motto for this:

"If you can't handle Banana's, don't add Pineapples too."

Taken note of - adding to OP.

Nic64 · May 20, 2009

I've had some success throwing or Z dropping the banana's to screw up or influence diddy's recovery, if you get him under the stage you have a decent chance of either edge hogging or fsmashing him if you can predict his trajectory right(and if you don't want to go for the all or nothing you have a great chance of ftilt/utilt/grab or whatever you want). I don't think I really have any real tricks with banana's I just try to keep them under my control where possible and use them to my advantage, it seems like games against diddy tend to swing in momentum a lot, I barely ever feel like its neutral, diddy can have a really hard time if snake uses his banana's against him because snake is so good at chasing opponents who've had some of their options taken away. I think not leaving yourself open is the biggest thing, if you leave diddy openings to approach with banana's it will hurt you a lot, I mostly lose to diddy when I press too hard and do something stupid...

xsephirot · May 20, 2009

One of my main issues is this: Bananas are used for approaches. So if you spotdodge it you will only be hit by his dash attack and then end up slipping somewhere along there. But if you shield the banana he can still dash attack or run up to grab you.

SuSa · May 20, 2009

OoS works wonders.

Also Airdodge-throwing after catching it OoS works secondary wonders.

Also if the Diddy is smart, if you shield he/she will grab you, not dash attack.. which is punishable.

Nic64 · May 20, 2009

just catch it? if he throws it from close you can even just dash attack right through it, free hit and you get control of his banana. but yeah, that's definitely a hard adaptation when you first play diddy's, your normal defensive options like shielding, spot dodging, rolling, are far less useful against diddy. if you roll/spot dodge a lot your habits will break you.

Attila_ · May 20, 2009

i remember during the matchup discussion i felt that nades were fairly useless in this matchup, but pretty much everyone claimed that snake outcamps diddy, and nades were awesome. glad to see people are finally coming around.

ive found snakes glide toss (i only seem to go a decent distance backwards) to be a little handy in this matchup, but im using it more and more often as i get comfortable. if diddy is next to you and you have a banana, glide tossing downwards across diddy will drop the banana right at his feet, meaning he cant shield or spotdodge it, and you can ftilt, utilt or grab as you see fit. diddy does this far more effectively, but it still works as snake, and like i said, if the set up is right, it cant be avoided.

i find regular dash attacks better at picking up bananas, simply because they end a lot quicker than a mortar slide, and there is less chance of diddy hitting you with his other banana afterwards.

also, be careful when pulling nades out in the air, as if a banana hits you while you have a nade in your hand (and havent dropped it already), the nade will explode regardless of where it hits you. stupid i know, but theres no way around it.

@susa: diddy's dash attack to utilt is extremely hard to punish. assuming the dash attach doesnt push you into a banana or shield poke, he utilts out of it (3 frames) with no lag. this gives you only a couple of frames to do anything (shield grabbing generally works the best). its very doable, but the timing makes it really hard to do consistently. dash attack into grab is also difficult to punish or avoid...

@nic64: yes, if diddy is recovering from far below like a fool, throw a banana to kill him. but this should only happen very rarely.

nevershootme · May 20, 2009

I'm gonna make a short addition, time your jab if you are up close to diddy so you can pick up the banana as he tosses to coutner throw back.

make sure to apply mind games so you can not be predicted where you'll roll after u trip

luke_atyeo · May 20, 2009

SuSa said:
OoS works wonders.

Also Airdodge-throwing after catching it OoS works secondary wonders.

Also if the Diddy is smart, if you shield he/she will grab you, not dash attack.. which is punishable.

ahh too good, airdodge cancel throwing has an extremely good use now

SuSa · May 20, 2009

shmot said:
i remember during the matchup discussion i felt that nades were fairly useless in this matchup, but pretty much everyone claimed that snake outcamps diddy, and nades were awesome. glad to see people are finally coming around.

ive found snakes glide toss (i only seem to go a decent distance backwards) to be a little handy in this matchup, but im using it more and more often as i get comfortable. if diddy is next to you and you have a banana, glide tossing downwards across diddy will drop the banana right at his feet, meaning he cant shield or spotdodge it, and you can ftilt, utilt or grab as you see fit. diddy does this far more effectively, but it still works as snake, and like i said, if the set up is right, it cant be avoided.

You have to time Snake's glide toss slowly, like JUST before he starts the roll. Compared to Zamus where it has to be instantly. Keep this in mind when you glide toss, and he seems to go about as far as Diddy does....maybe we can dribble? I'll be finding out today.

i find regular dash attacks better at picking up bananas, simply because they end a lot quicker than a mortar slide, and there is less chance of diddy hitting you with his other banana afterwards.

This.

also, be careful when pulling nades out in the air, as if a banana hits you while you have a nade in your hand (and havent dropped it already), the nade will explode regardless of where it hits you. stupid i know, but theres no way around it.

Really? I thought we just dropped the grenade O_o

@susa: diddy's dash attack to utilt is extremely hard to punish. assuming the dash attach doesnt push you into a banana or shield poke, he utilts out of it (3 frames) with no lag. this gives you only a couple of frames to do anything (shield grabbing generally works the best). its very doable, but the timing makes it really hard to do consistently. dash attack into grab is also difficult to punish or avoid...

Except shield grabbing is to slow. Then again, OoS Dair is probably slower.

@nic64: yes, if diddy is recovering from far below like a fool, throw a banana to kill him. but this should only happen very rarely.

dair works wonders for gimping any diddy who has to charge up. But this isn't the matchup thread, this is how to DEAL with the bananas. (and also to some degree, how to utilize them)

Comments in red. I hate breaking up quotes.

nevershootme said:
I'm gonna make a short addition, time your jab if you are up close to diddy so you can pick up the banana as he tosses to coutner throw back.

make sure to apply mind games so you can not be predicted where you'll roll after u trip

Timing that jab is extremely difficult.

Not mind games, simply don't become habitual. If you're predictable you'll get taken care of easily anyways.

luke_atyeo said:
ahh too good, airdodge cancel throwing has an extremely good use now

It has several uses, dealing with bananas being a major one.

Palpi · May 20, 2009

if the diddy loves dash attack as a follow up,shield dropped nades work wonders. A grab happy one is a bit more difficult.

xsephirot · May 20, 2009

Palpi said:
if the diddy loves dash attack as a follow up,shield dropped nades work wonders. A grab happy one is a bit more difficult.

You can't get a nade out right after you shield or spotdodge before diddy hits you or grabs you. And if you pull a nade out prior to them throwing the banana, you're just asking for your own nade to explode.

tibs7 · May 20, 2009

lol snake doesnt really have any issues with bananas, but diddy has massive issues if snake has them. so i think just work on controlling them 'cause they pwn diddy.

SuSa · May 20, 2009

Everyone has issues with bananas.

tibs7 · May 21, 2009

yeah thats true, i know, but snake less issues imo

with bananas its about experience if you have it with them you'll do well.

Attila_ · May 21, 2009

tibor stop talking rubbish, if snake could glide toss into fsmash like diddy can, or dribble, or follow them up with aerials, or barrel cancel, or use that multi-hitting shield poking dash attack into what he'd like to to pick them up and combo, then diddy would have issues with snake's bananas.

for everyone who doesnt know, tibs7 is my little brother...

t3h n00b · May 21, 2009

If you just throw the bananas at Diddy, they can easily barrel cancel, and have a chance to hit you with their strongest move. And that's pretty much all you can do with his bananas as Snake, besides throw them up/down/away just so he can't pull out another one. From my experience with both Diddy and Snake, usually the best way to deal with bananas as Snake is staying between them and Diddy. If you're playing a Diddy who doesn't punish bananas being thrown at their shield, they aren't very experienced.

Kly · May 21, 2009

Imo, the most annoying enemy move for Snake is Olimar pivot grab

SuSa · Jun 3, 2009

So I hear I need to change the move.

lol-woops. Forgot about this thread

*goes and updates*

Panix · Jun 3, 2009

Laser- for rob's laser I would have to say powershielding would be the best option, not only do you get to move instantly after shielding it, Rob takes a weird position when he shoots so it's not THAT hard to telegraph. If your up close and he lasers (which he really shouldn't unless he just got finished half charging/charging a gyro) you can instantly ftilt.

Gyro- a little less annoying, but still a big pain because he pushes you back with it, has killing potentinal, and it's pretty spam able if he hits your shield with it (laser, uncharged gyro, laser, wait, laser, uncharged gyro) best way to deal with it is short hopping airdodges, you approach and have the chance to catch his gyro to peg him back in the face with.

SamuraiPanda · Jun 3, 2009

I like picking up the Gyros with a dash attack or an airdodge whenever he shoots it at me. But those lasers are rather frustrating. Powershielding or spotdoding them works well, though.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 3, 2009

And how about the laser after Snake has taken knockback? You find you can avoid that extra damage in anyway, or is it not worth it to worry about it?

My opinion is airdodge at modest knockback to avoid the hit, you dont' want to lose your jump by getting hit with the laser.

theONEjanitor · Jun 15, 2009

you don't even have to powershield lasers just regular shield them. if you're close enough, regular shield anything he does and f-tilt.
if not just block.

napZzz · Jun 15, 2009

Is it possible to do that airdodge cancel item throw if you see the gyro coming at you to throw it right back at him right away?

SuSa · Jun 15, 2009

Yes. You can do that with all projectiles.

napZzz · Jun 15, 2009

SuSa said:
Yes. You can do that with all projectiles.

I just wasn't sure because iirc I thought it shoots low and snake might not be able to do it in time or w/e.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 16, 2009

What should we do for "Week: 3"?

We have already done Diddy's Bananas and Rob's projectiles. I suggest pikmin projectiles. Those are the most annoying in my opinion.

Panix · Jun 16, 2009

__crystal____ said:
What should we do for "Week: 3"?

We have already done Diddy's Bananas and Rob's projectiles. I suggest pikmin projectiles. Those are the most annoying in my opinion.

qft. I also think we should advance this topic and instead of "how to deal with annoying enemy projectiles" we should make it "annoying enemy moves" so we can include MK's tornado, DK's ground pound, shiek's ftilt, zamus Dsmash, etc etc.

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