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ROB OFFICIAL MATCHUP DISCUSSION: Zelda

Syde7

The Sultan of Smut
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
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Location
Winston-Salem, NC
NNID
syde_7
Well, I had intended to get back to choosing the character discussions by voting, but I didn't see any new votes this week in the thread, so... another executive decision. This time- Zelda.

So... as before:

ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:


Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How to do it:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How they'll do it:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick/ What opponent will pick {If you're someone contributing from another board})
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants/ What opponent wants {If you're someone contributing from another board})

Ratio:

Plus, any anecdotes/explanations you wanna give.

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!
 

Deadweight

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
710
Location
Tally FL
ROB's Advantages: Recovery options, ability to gimp, more reliable projectiles.

ROB's Disadvantages: HUGE target for toe to sweet spot, cccombo-able. F-tilt is outranged by her Fsmash(I THINK)

Opponent's Advantages: Ability to kill early and ccombo

Opponent's Disadvantages: Poor recovery, limited projectiles.

What ROB should try to do: Camp, then send her off the stage.

How to do it: Watch for Dins fires and reflectors. aim the laser down at her feet or up at her head so when the laser bounces back it doesnt hit you. G I M P

How opponent can stop it: Smart w/ reflectors. Approach cautiously.

What Opponent should be trying to do: Kill early, string d-tilts and crit toe for kill

How they'll do it: Stringing D-tilts ->Dsmash. U/Fsmash for kills.

How ROB can stop it: SDI the dtilts

Counterpicks : Frigate!!! Transformation 1 ***** her recovery
Bans Brinstar. It is SOOOOOOOOOOOO good.
Preferred Neutral FD. Strike B-field

Ratio: 45-55 Zelda
 

Rawnie

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
2,455
Location
Albuquerque, NM
ROB's Advantages: Recovery, weight, range, aerial game.

ROB's Disadvantages: Big taget, blind from spot below.

Opponent's Advantages: 7 kill moves, can edgeguard R.O.B well.

Opponent's Disadvantages: Light, predictable recovery bad aerial game.

What ROB should try to do: Get Zelda in the air. Other than that, baiting Zelda works well, then punishing.

How to do it: Camp. Predict the reflector.

How opponent can stop it: Reflecor should not be used very mcuh in the MU, sheild would probably be the best thing for Zelda to avoid his camping. Zelda can use Din's to disrupt R.O.B's camping game as well.

What Opponent should be trying to do: Edgeguarding. Trying to get under R.O.B.

How they'll do it: Using lightning kicks to edgeguard R.O.B can work well since he cannot airdodge while using his Up-B. Din's also works well too. Zelda's likes being below her opponent, so she'll abuse U-Smash quite a bit.

How ROB can stop it: Try and Di out of her smashes. Be cautious when getting back onstage.

Counterpicks: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise and Yoshi's Island
Bans: Brinstar, Luigi's Mansion
Preferred Neutral: Yoshi's Island (for R.O.B) Zelda's worst neutral, by far.
Battlefiled (for Zelda)

Ratio: 45/55 Zeda's advantage

I think the biggest issue for R.O.B is how much earlier Zelda can kill him and can how she get around him camping game.
 

Sudai

Stuff here
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODocJCpwVL4

Watch this video. It's hella old but this match-up's metagame is near peak in this video.

-Best way to deal with Din's while in Up-B
-Best way to set up win-win situations while edge guarding.
-Best way to shield pressure.
-Best way to deal with shield pressure..

Like..that's all there is to it. Haha.
 

jjvirus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
2,188
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
I'm quoting JCaeser's post from the last Zelda discussion and putting it here, it should cover the majority of what we need to know
Stages

Brinstar: The nonsolid main platform is bad for Zelda, but the close boundaries, hittable stage parts, uneven ground, and SD-saving lava push this stage in Zelda's favor. She will be killing you at retardly low %s (especially if she lands a uair when you're stuck on a platform), her multihit smashes become very dangerous when she's near the goop, and there are several parts of the stage where she can pin you in her dtilt trap and the uneven ground will make it very difficult to DI out of. And on top of that it's a bad stage for camping. This is one you might possibly want to think about banning vs Zelda.

Norfair: This one is also great for Zelda. Gimping her or taking advantage of her recovery lag isn't even an option here. Once she's at kill %, she can camp the bottom platform and be incredibly difficult to approach. She can stand under the little lip on one side so that none of your projectiles can hit her, and still bend her Din's up to hit you. Also a possible ban.

PS 1 is like Lylat Cruise Light, the edges are very hard for her to sweetspot so it's not a bad stage at all to counterpick her to. There are better options though.

Frigate Orpheon is obvious, but Jungle Japes is also a good counterpick. Zelda sucks at getting out of the water. If she falls in, just chase left and laser her in the startup lag of her up-B. It's too easy to gimp her there. ROB also lives beyond forever.

Zelda's also have trouble with nonsolid platforms, so Delfino is a possible CP. Halberd is risky because it's solid for a lot of the match and it has a low ceiling.


More matchup stuff:

Zelda's dair isn't that dangerous. ROB is the hardest character in the game to successfully spike, by far.

Her dsmash isn't that dangerous to ROB either. The only reason it's dangerous to other characters is because it sends them at a low angle from which it's difficult to recover. ROB doesn't have that problem.

Ftilt is only good for punishing in this matchup. If you spam/poke with it, you'll get caught in her fsmash. Although, ROB's fsmash beats Zelda's fsmash if they're spaced right, because ROB's is more disjointed.

ROB can outcamp Zelda. Din's are slow and easy to shield. ROB's projectiles can be mixed up in speed and angles, and are much harder to shield. Zelda can throw out a reflector, but a good ROB will never get hit by reflected projectiles and if she reflects a gyro, ROB can punish with a laser in the ending lag if you time it right.

Zelda can be gimped, because if ROB is off the stage harassing her with fairs she literally can't up-B. But in a real match, Zelda can always up-B through ROB to the stage before ROB gets out there to gimp her. The trick is to jump off the stage and catch her with a fair when she attempts to get to the ledge with her 2nd jump instead of her up-B, and keep the pressure up until she dies. She will only make that mistake once though.

Don't spam spotdodge against Zelda. Her usmash is too good. Shield the whole thing and punish OoS.

Speaking of Zelda's usmash, it beats every one of ROB's aerial approaches, so play smart.

Whenever she dtilts, DI away. This will save you damage at early %s and utilt kills at higher %s. Do not challenge her dtilt, it has scary priority. Walk away and punish with an ftilt.

Glidetossing doesn't work great if Zelda predicts it. Even if you throw the gyro down so it doesn't get reflected, her reflector will hit you before you can do anything anyway. If she hides in her shield though, then by all means glidetoss her ***.


More to come later if I think of anything else. This is the matchup I've been playing the most for the last month or so, and while my training partner isn't quite tournament caliber yet, he plays his best against me and I've learned a lot about the matchup.

I'd put it at 55:45 with a slight edge to Zelda, just because she racks damage like crazy (21% LKs and 16% Din's wtf?) and kills very well and is not nearly as easy to gimp as you might think.
 

Syde7

The Sultan of Smut
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
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Location
Winston-Salem, NC
NNID
syde_7
I'm making a new matchup discussion tomorrow, but I'm leaving this one open due to the smallish number of replies. Granted, the information is good- just, would like to see some more.
 

Mag!c

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
145
Location
Pennsylvania
A big thing for me, when playing against a Zelda, is to play conservatively. Camping helps to a certain point, but keeping her off the stage or under constant pressure is important. Leaving her to her own designs will ease the pressure, and then the approach is much harder. I don't know why, but I play it similar to how I play the Lucario matchup- pile on damage from afar, keep them at a fair distance, and then lure them in for the kill or aggressively edgehog earlier on to snag those important stocks.
 

Vorguen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
2,168
Location
Vorgy = RGV = Brownsville, Texas
Zelda can sweetspot ROB so easily, not to mention it's really annoying getting through her smashes. Zelda is tough for ROB without a doubt. She is hard to camp back because of her reflector, but if she Din's you can shoot a fast laser that's guaranteed to hit and you have time to dodge / shield Din's. If played correctly you should still be forcing her to approach and Zelda has a terrible practically worthless approach. Angle all your lasers and gyros so they don't hit you back if she pops reflector. Try to bait her into using it and then punish her ending lag with a fast laser.
 
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