Project Peach Vertical (work in progress) (edit: added usmash)

Xyless · May 27, 2009

After going through the Project Vertical topic and looking at my Stage topic, I decided to start a little research project of my own. This will judge the ceiling based on Peach's vertical moves instead of Mario's, and possibly give more perspective on stages for Peach players.

Since it takes more time than I initially expected, I'm going to do stages in parts, based on the previously determined %'s done in the original Project Vertical topic.

The number given at the beginning is the % needed for a fully charged Mario up smash to kill a grounded Mario. So, for example, if I want to do a platform like FD's main stage...

82% (this is the % Mario kills a Mario with a fully charged up smash)
Neutral: Any neutral stage with a platform at this height
Neutral/Counter-pick: Any neutral/counter-pick with a platform at this height
[And so on for the rest of the stages]
Then, the character percentages

NOTE: ALL OF THE PERCENTAGES ARE BASED ON AN UNDIMINISHED PEACH FORWARD TILT, AS IT IS PEACH'S MOST RELIABLE VERTICAL KILLING MOVE WHILE BOTH CHARACTERS ARE GROUNDED.
I might include her up smash, but it isn't100% testable due to some characters being unable to perfectly sweetspot on the ground.

Without further ado...

82%
Tested on: Final Destination
Neutral: Final Destination, Smashville (lowest platform), Battlefield (lowest platform), Yoshi's Island (lowest platform)
Neutral/Counter-pick: Lylat Cruise (lowest platform), Castle Siege (first section)
Counter-picks: Delfino Plaza
Counterpick/Banned: Norfair (lowest platform), Distant Planet (central platform)
Banned: Spear Pillar (top major platform)

Character: FTilt/FSmash/USmash
• DeDeDe: 164%/159%/95%
• Snake: 160/155/93
• DK: 159/155/92*
• Bowser: 155/150/89
• Falcon: 153/148/89
• Ganondorf: 152/148/88†
• Ike: 151/147/87
• Link: 149/144/86
• Charizard: 148/144/85
• Wario: 147/143/85
• Wolf: 147/142/85
• Yoshi: 146/142/84
• ROB: 145/141/83*
• Samus: 144/140/83
• Ivysaur: 142/138/82
• Lucario: 140/136/80
• Mario: 139/135/80
• Pit: 139/135/79†
• Sonic: 139/135/79
• Luigi: 137/134/79
• Ness: 136/133/78
• Diddy: 136/132/78
• Lucas: 136/132/77
• Marth: 136/131/77
• Toon Link: 135/131/76
• Ice Climbers: 132/128/75
• Falco: 130/127/75
• Peach: 130/126/74†
• Olimar: 127/124/73
• Pikachu: 127/123/72
• Zamus: 127/123/72†
• Zelda: 127/123/72†
• Shiek: 127/123/72
• Meta-Knight: 124/120/70
• Kirby: 124/120/70
• Fox: 124/120/70
• G&W: 121/117/78
• Squirtle: 118/114/65
• Jigglypuff: 114/109/63

Notes:
* - Could only find a sweet-spot when lying down
† - Couldn't pinpoint sweetspot, so using empirical data to assume %

I might add visual representation for where in each stage this represents, but...I'm working on numbers first.

Xyless · May 27, 2009

Just in case (shouldn't need more than this post though)

Airgemini · May 27, 2009

Awesome thread.
I find explanation part a little confusing.
This is Ftilt's KO data?

For Usmash and smaller characters, just have everyone on platforms, since that's were you're probably going to be hitting people with it anyways.

Xyless · May 27, 2009

That doesn't work with FD.

I'm using ftilt as a reference guide, and once I get some numbers, I'll be able to calculate both ftilt and Up Smash's kill % for anywhere/any character.

Possibly all of her moves.

EDIT: I'm using ftilt because I don't need to take precision into account, so it can be used as a general, 100% truth. Plus, its percentage range for kill height is more varied than the up smash and kills directly upward, so I don't have to worry about messing any data up.

LanceStern · May 27, 2009

Samus' D-tilt kills vertical with a littl ebit of horizontal. I have the percentages on the Samus boards.

That may could help you, I actually sat and had to increment/decrement by 1% for each of these characters, because it was so tight. They are the d-titl killing percentages.

deepseadiva · May 27, 2009

Xyless said:
I'm using ftilt because I don't need to take precision into account, so it can be used as a general, 100% truth.

Ftilt? But, it's not very exact... it has a range of hits throughout the move. I'd highly suggest using another move. Unless you can guarantee hitting at the same spot, you run the risk of getting inconsistent data.

I'd go with dtilt - or maybe just set the characters to "jump" in training and hit with the tip of usmash. Then you don't need platforms, but the chance of miscalculation is still there...

I'd just go with dtilt.

Canvasofgrey · May 27, 2009

Ftilt has 3 hitboxes that do three different things, the inconsistency of the move itself isn't very good to pull out as a guaranteed way to KO.

I agree with Meno, Do Dtilt since it has only one hitbox, and still sends the opponent on a vertical flight trajectory.

Xyless · May 27, 2009

I can guarantee hitting the same spot in a few ways. For one, I make sure Peach is walking into the character as she hits them, the damage is consistent, and the damage killed is consistent with all the other information out there.

Having the enemy right next to her means direct vertical direction. I've already done FD with ftilt, up smash, and a little dtilt (because I was getting sick of not being able to sweetspot up smash with some characters).

I currently only posted one for the sake of organization, as I didn't want to overload all my data at once.

Oh, another interesting thing I noticed while doing the up smash test. There are some characters that are nigh impossible to get the 17% sweetspot. These characters include Falco, Sheik, Zelda, Peach, and Ganondorf. DK and ROB I believe are impossible to up smash perfectly when they're grounded, but surprisingly, I was able to up smash them when they were lying down for the sweetspot.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · May 27, 2009

It's not hard to get the sweetspot of F Tilt on someone standing there. Provided you're walking into your opponent as you do it, I don't see the problem with it. What are the 3 hits of F Tilt again? The sweetspot, the far away bit when she lifts her leg up and the point of her toes as she's finishing it?

Besides, using D Tilt would take forever...that thing doesn't kill xD

This list makes me sad at how terrible Peach's killing power is

EdreesesPieces · May 27, 2009

F-tilt sweetspot IS consistent. Just get into as close to them as possible. Nice project you have going here, it will be very useful

Xyless · May 27, 2009

I will mention this, I will probably add %'s for the consistent distance moves, like Peach's up smash, down tilt, and frying pan (if I can find a code to make frying pan the only fsmash option, anyway).

I actually forgot to add the up smash %'s to the list, which I'll do in a little bit.

Xyless · May 27, 2009

Added up smash data for the 82% platforms. Some weren't possible to aim (symbolized by a †), but according to other information, it should be that %.

I wasn't sure if I should use the PERFECT 17% sweetspot or the not so perfect 15% sweetspot. Maybe I should get the 15% just to be sure.

mountain_tiger · May 27, 2009

Nice work, Xyless. If you want, I could test the FSmash frying pan for you to add to this. And maybe the second USmash sweetspot too (I get very bored, so I don't mind doing these sorts of things).

Bitter Romantic · May 27, 2009

question, is this her regular sweetspotted up smash or her fully charged sweetspotted up smash?

because if the latter, I think it'd be more useful to test with a regular sweetspotted usmash :O
seems more practical

mountain_tiger · May 27, 2009

I'm almost certain that this is referring to a regular sweetspotted up smash. If you can somehow hit it fully charged it kills at 50% on Mario, not 80%.

Xyless · May 27, 2009

It's her regular sweetspotted (17%) upsmash.

Problem is, some characters it's literally impossible to pull off a fully charged up smash while they're grounded, due to either them being too short or too skinny (Zelda/ZSS, Falco, MK, etc). The only way to get an uncharged up smash on them in the first place is to run into their body and somewhat pray that you connect.

However, once I get enough data (shouldn't be long), I'll be able to just do the math anyway. ...hopefully.

hiROI · May 27, 2009

Way to go Xyless! I was thinking, since some characters have moves to momentum cancel which allows them to live longer, maybe we should get information on that. I can do GW and his bucket braking if you want

Meru. · May 28, 2009

Wow. Usmash is REALLY strong. I should use it more. Let me think about it...

I think it pretty quick.
It's really strong when it sweetspots.
And when it sourspots... Well, I guess you can juggle them or pressure them in the air or whatever.

Yes, we should all use it more o.o

Xyless · May 28, 2009

hiROI said:
Way to go Xyless! I was thinking, since some characters have moves to momentum cancel which allows them to live longer, maybe we should get information on that. I can do GW and his bucket braking if you want

That'd be great, I think all I'd need is the bucket brake, then I can iterate about how much everyone else has until they can do a move.

mountain_tiger · May 28, 2009

Hey, Xyless, since you've done FTilt and USmash already, I figured I'd do the Fsmash frying pan for you (from Final Destination). I'm actually surprised at how close the figures are to that of FTilt actually. Anyway, here are the percentages for you. Keep up the good work!

Dedede 159%
Snake 155%
DK 155%
Bowser 150%
Cpt.Falcon 148%
Ganondorf 148%
Ike 147%
Link 144%
Charizard 144%
Wario 143%
Wolf 142%
Yoshi 142%
ROB 141%
Samus 140%
Ivysaur 138%
Lucario 136%
Mario 135%
Pit 135%
Sonic 135%
Luigi 134%
Ness 133%
Diddy 132%
Lucas 132%
Marth 131%
Toon Link 131%
ICs 128%
Falco 127%
Peach 126%
Olimar 124%
Pikachu 123%
ZSS 123%
Zelda 123%
Sheik 123%
MK 120%
Kirby 120%
Fox 120%
Mr. G&W 117%
Squirtle 114%
Jigglypuff 109%

Project Peach Vertical (work in progress) (edit: added usmash)

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