Diddy is a beast at footstool

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

His Naners keep opponents from getting up while he is in the air.
Basically I see him as having this footstool. The only bad part is... I lack the knowledge on Banana placement.
So here is my opinions:
u-tilt= good footstool starter
Uair= good footstool starter
Dash Attach= potential footstool starter but IDK
Nair= potential footstool starter but IDK

Place Naners in there and you have broken.... O-o

So give me your opinions and we'll see if we can develop this.

Ingulit · May 27, 2009

I was going to try to see if Dash Attack > Footstool worked, and to see if it comboed into anything. Keep the OP updated if anything is found. I'll do some testing when it isn't 3:00 in the morning :dizzy:

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

Dash attack while picking up a banana > foostool > banana throw > Fair would be a pretty sexy combo

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

Like I said... Because of Banana's his footstool combo's could be endless.

Ingulit · May 27, 2009

We already tried the Footstool > Single Banana Lock, didn't we? I don't remember if it worked or not.

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

Single banana lock wouldn't work because you jump to high after the footstool, unless you force the get up animation, but IDK how foostooling and get up animation works.

DFEAR · May 27, 2009

Player-1 said:
Dash attack while picking up a banana > foostool > banana throw > Fair would be a pretty sexy combo

just tried it and i only go it to work on big characters at low %'s such as dk,bowser,snake >_< the timing is hard as ****! i have to memorize the platform length of the footstool area above opponents heads.

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

DFEAR said:
just tried it and i only go it to work on big characters at low %'s such as dk,bowser,snake >_< the timing is hard as ****! i have to memorize the platform length of the footstool area above opponents heads.

you can cancel the footstool height by landing on a platform if that helps at all

Ingulit · May 27, 2009

I've just done it too, and I can only get it to work at 0% vs Snake. However, I noticed something peculiar... I did Dash Attack > Footstool > Fast Fall > F-Air, and the F-Air bounced Snake like a Jab Lock would. Does F-Air have lock properties? If so, if you can Fast Fall fast enough, you could start a decent combo on at least Snake with the above chain.

Edit: W00t 150

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

Ingulit said:
I've just done it too, and I can only get it to work at 0% vs Snake. However, I noticed something peculiar... I did Dash Attack > Footstool > Fast Fall > F-Air, and the F-Air bounced Snake like a Jab Lock would. Does F-Air have lock properties? If so, if you can Fast Fall fast enough, you could start a decent combo on at least Snake with the above chain.

Edit: W00t 150

woot 1600 =)

Ingulit · May 27, 2009

Player-1 said:
woot 1600 =)

Touché

I haz videoz:
Dash Attack > Footstool > F-Air > Anything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo7FQO8oIhw

EDIT: Tell me if that is escapeable; the computer Snake would manage to avoid it a lot of the time by just standing up, but if I fast falled fast enough (lolwut) he could never stand up. I don't have a human to test it against.

TreK · May 27, 2009

well at least, since diddy will be in the air, we could tech chase people with this

i'll try this today if i remember about it :/

edit : didn't see about your vid ingulit... woah

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

Ingulit said:
Touché

I haz videoz:
Dash Attack > Footstool > F-Air > Anything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo7FQO8oIhw

EDIT: Tell me if that is escapeable; the computer Snake would manage to avoid it a lot of the time by just standing up, but if I fast falled fast enough (lolwut) he could never stand up. I don't have a human to test it against.

it looked escapable MAYBE not the Fair > Dsmash one

Kaptain Kong · May 27, 2009

can't you cancel the footstool length with a second jump?

does fairing them force the stand up animation?

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

kk... just to try and point this in the right direction.

This can be escaped. I have messed with this stuff enough in the past week to kinda get an eye for it. (although this might work on R.O.B.)
He can roll.
Here is my advice:

Nair instead of Fair. You might be able to combo from it.
Diddy needs naners for his footstool combo's. He just goes way to high on his jump.
Uair is the Airial u-tilt. Find a footstool use for it.

SuSa · May 27, 2009

Things have locking properties during certain frames so long as they have under a certain (which I have tested yet) launch rate (or something like that).

Thing's like Luigi's fireball, jabs, and Falco's laser can lock. Along with things like ftilts and dtilts in some cases.

I have yet to find out what determines it - but I assume it's launch rate or something.

Dash Attack > Footstool > Dthrow banana > FF nair > utilt > jump+z catch nanner (unless it makes you airdodge) > footstool > dthrow banana > FF fair/dair (I'd prefer dair, then try to uair out of it)

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

SuSa said:
Things have locking properties during certain frames so long as they have under a certain (which I have tested yet) launch rate (or something like that).

Thing's like Luigi's fireball, jabs, and Falco's laser can lock. Along with things like ftilts and dtilts in some cases.

I have yet to find out what determines it - but I assume it's launch rate or something.

Dash Attack > Footstool > Dthrow banana > FF nair > utilt > jump+z catch nanner (unless it makes you airdodge) > footstool > dthrow banana > FF fair/dair (I'd prefer dair, then try to uair out of it)

I believe it might be launch rate. Sex kicks almost always jab lock.

SuSa · May 27, 2009

Same with weaker hitboxes. (Peach's bair, Shiek's bair, and I think I've managed to lock with Snake's uair Oo)

Now then.. footstool combo's. We should find them all.

Because when the metagme revolves around getting the first footstool in a matchup, I will lulz.

Advent Lee · May 27, 2009

I like how saviorslegacy just comes into the Diddy boards and telling them what to do lolz. Good stuff though man.

Just two things: 1. Couldn't the opponent just airdodge/DI the dash attack? 2. With a banana in hand wouldn't Z-dropping it after the foot stool be a better option instead of immediately throwing it down/Fairing because it would allow enough time for you to fall to the floor and monkey ****

(Unless your just going to throw the banana down and Z-catch it and follow up with more shenanigans.)

I'm liking this thread, a lot of good input to advance the character.

-d00d-

Player-1 · May 27, 2009

advent102 said:
Just two things: 1. Couldn't the opponent just airdodge/DI the dash attack?

The same thing can be said for Dash attack to Fair/bair/dair/uair/nair yes people STILL, even after a year, get hit by it often

Bellioes · May 27, 2009

Well at low percents, DA to to Fair is actually inescable. So I imagine that doing this at 0% works too.

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

advent102 said:
I like how saviorslegacy just comes into the Diddy boards and telling them what to do lolz. Good stuff though man.

Not sure how quite to take that.........

Uhhhh... has anyone considered a decay u-tilt? That is how the Sheik and Squirtle combo that I made work.
You use a tilt and it will decay into itself for a long combo.

(just a tip below)
reverse Banana (when you first set it)> u-tilt> footstool> they fall on banana> FF Nair> Uair> footstool> FF> Fair> grab banana> glide toss> monkey flip kick

It's hard but in theory it might work.
*note* they cannot roll the first time due to the Banana
*note* they cannot roll the second time due to footstool mechanics
You see... people kinda tumble when they are footstooled. This means that they fall a lot slower. Thus you have enough time to combo.
A good comparison is this:

You have a have a gun and a bullet. You point the gun slightly higher so that is will barely fall at a slant.
Now you take the gun and fire it at the same time you drop the bullet. The one that is just falling straight down will touch first. So it can tech.

Now take the same bullet and put it higher up. Now shoot it. The one coming out of the gun will hit the ground first.

Not exactly the same concept but you get the point. You will have more frame advantage on someone the higher up they are footstooled.

:EDIT:
I was just able to do what I suggested to a MK. Took me freaking forever.
If you Diddy's want to learn this then you have your work cut out for you. @-@
This footstool combo might be the hardest one yet.... but dgone talk about reward!!!!!
*does like 58%*

Coyn3Masta · May 27, 2009

needz moar vids, im so trying this tomorrow

saviorslegacy · May 27, 2009

Coyn3Masta said:
needz moar vids, im so trying this tomorrow

uhhhh... oi... I'll try and get one up. This is super hard. @-@
(at least it improves my tech skill)

lol.. after working on a footstool for TL, Sheik, Diddy, Squirtle and Fox I should be really good at footstool, but noooooo. It has to vary from character to character. -_-

At least I will be able to land a footstool like no matter what when I finish my research on every character. -_-

Tachyon · May 27, 2009

Very nice information. I'll have to practice this as soon as possible hopefully to get ready for A-kon.

saviorslegacy · May 28, 2009

Just tested what I said above and... they can DI out of it. It's not even that hard to DI out since I used my toes. <,<

Back to the drawing board......

Ingulit · May 28, 2009

saviorslegacy said:
This can be escaped. I have messed with this stuff enough in the past week to kinda get an eye for it. (although this might work on R.O.B.)
He can roll.
Here is my advice:

Nair instead of Fair. You might be able to combo from it.

Are you sure he can roll out of it? I was vs a level 9 computer, and they will react as soon as possible to anything I try to do. When I fast falled at the right time, I managed to hit him consistently into the F-Air bounce... So, is this a problem of Diddy's footstool height, or is it a problem with F-Air over N-Air? (Again, I have NOT tested this vs a human, though I tried pulling off the Dash Attack > Footstool agaisnt some of my not so great friends tonight and never once got it even after getting the muscle memory down trying to make that video)

I'm guessing you would think it works on ROB because he's taller after the footstool, correct? And as has been mentioned before, couldn't you double jump to reduce the height of the footstool jump to fast fall from a shorter height to make this work? Fast Falled F-Air lock and N-Air are the only non-banana Dash Attack > Footstool combos I can think of, if they work at all :\

The Sìrén · May 28, 2009

Ehh... sorry Legacy, I'm not buyin' it. :\

Those would be some BEAST combos if they were anywhere near guaranteed, but..
Unfortunately, your opponent, if they have any sense at all, will have MULTIPLE options to escape your attack. :\

For example, on that "dash attack-->pick up nanner-->footstool-->Dthrow-->Fair" combo that P1 mentioned earlier, depending on how you make contact with the dash, they could easily either DI right out of this, airdodge, probably Fair depending on the character, etc. It's much too loose. If I'm thinking clearly, they could also probably airdodge to catch your nanner right after you footstool; although I'm not completely knowledgeable on footstool physics.

Good ideas, though, man.

saviorslegacy · May 28, 2009

To Siren:
I already said back to the drawing board.
About half of what we have said works. We are just going to have to keep thinks of new ways to set up a footstool and apply a Naners what we need it.

To Inguilt:
Yeah that is pretty much can be escaped. You see the funny thing with footstool's is that you are almost always in the air when the opponent regains movement.
In this case it is a tech chase. The fore is on the ground and can roll right before you hit.
(no I did not test it but I know what footstool combo's look like now)

Does Diddy have any jab lock on the ground possibilities?

:EDIT:
popgun jab locks
f-tilt also jab locks at low percents

I'll see if I can find a footstool that sets up for a grounded jab lock.

Ingulit · May 28, 2009

saviorslegacy said:
To Inguilt:
Yeah that is pretty much can be escaped. You see the funny thing with footstool's is that you are almost always in the air when the opponent regains movement.
In this case it is a tech chase. The fore is on the ground and can roll right before you hit.
(no I did not test it but I know what footstool combo's look like now)

Does Diddy have any jab lock on the ground possibilities?

:EDIT:
popgun jab locks
f-tilt also jab locks at low percents

I'll see if I can find a footstool that sets up for a grounded jab lock.

It sounds like we need to cut the height Diddy flys when he goes airborne... Or would a simple D-Thrown banana work? Granted, it would make the opponent flinch and therefore wouldn't lock him when he would be hit by the F-Air, but I suppose the N-Air would be more useful for combos in this case. I need to try this with a banana... I was too afraid to before I got the timing down for the Dash Attack > Footstool vs a computer before I tried throwing bananas in there.

Also, we really need something better than Dash Attack > Footstool. I couldn't pull it off on even the worst of my crew, and they play large characters >< (No offense to the members of my crew that unfortunately knows who I'm talking about)

saviorslegacy · May 28, 2009

u-tilt looks promising
maybe even Uair

(Can you footstool a naner slip?)

Ingulit · May 28, 2009

saviorslegacy said:
u-tilt looks promising
maybe even Uair

(Can you footstool a naner slip?)

To the latter, I really doubt that. I can't imagine you can footstool the tripping animation, and that's the only time they would be viably vulnerable. I may be wrong, though :\

How were you thinking U-Tilt would work? U-Tilt Chain > Footstool > ??? > Profit? I suppose it would make for an easier footstool (though the opponent would be much higher in the air, and by the time you full hop towards them they should be able to act), but even if you could footstool after that you'd have to follow it up somehow (and you'd be much higher in the air).

U-Air has a lot of lag both in the air and on landing unless you auto-cancel it, and auto-cancelling a U-Air will only hit if the opponent doesn't airdodge and is in the air (somewhat unlikely since they expect a U-Tilt anyway) or if they are tall and are standing (JUST standing) right in front of you. I was testing some auto-cancelled U-Air combos vs tall characters a while back (I really wanted Auto-Cancel U-Air > Up-B to work... Anything with Up-B really), and it is hard as heck to land one mid-match (if not impossible). I can only reliably hit falling U-Airs, and that would be WAY too much lag for a footstool right after.

/2¢

Player-1 · May 28, 2009

You can foostool out of a trip animation, but the trip animation will get priority over the foostool animation and nothing will happen to your opponent while you still jump off their head.

saviorslegacy · May 28, 2009

Player-1 said:
You can foostool out of a trip animation, but the trip animation will get priority over the foostool animation and nothing will happen to your opponent while you still jump off their head.

No no no no no... I mean when the do the animation and they go into the air. Can you footstool the airborne person?

Ingulit · May 28, 2009

saviorslegacy said:
No no no no no... I mean when the do the animation and they go into the air. Can you footstool the airborne person?

Like, when the trip sends them off a platform? O.o It would take way to long to catch up to the opponent to footstool off a platform, and if they're someone like Marth or Meta Knight they can probably just Up-B to punish quickly.

If you don't mean that, then the airborne portion of the tripping animation is, well, part of the tripping animation, and it falls victim to what Player-1 just said.

Side note: I always wondered why I would sometimes get the footstool height of a jump when I don't footstool the opponent... So their animation has had more priority over my footstool animation. I never knew that!

Kaptain Kong · May 28, 2009

yeah its like that when you're hanging from the edge, you get footstooled, but you dont go into the animation

i think that theres a small time when the opponent cant do anything when they slip off the edge, but you'd have to be really close

Coyn3Masta · May 31, 2009

looks like this discussion is starting to die out =(

i was vsing a snake today, when he was near the edge on fd i did
monkey flip kick(making us both go off the stage) ------> footstool
is this escapable? or does this need like perfect timing =S?

chimpact · May 31, 2009

ADHD made a topic of flip kicks to footstool or dair off stage, but I think we found out it was escapable.

Coyn3Masta · Jun 1, 2009

yoshididdy said:
ADHD made a topic of flip kicks to footstool or dair off stage, but I think we found out it was escapable.

alright thanks, I'm still gonna do this on snakes since they don't expect it..and its an easier set up for a gimp

mdmfromdaridge · Jun 1, 2009

This isnt for combos so much as gimps, but could you z drop naner-> footstool when you are right about them?

Diddy is a beast at footstool

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