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When your opponent has a Banana in hand

Ingulit

Ing-u-lit
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
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Location
Huntsville/Tuscaloosa, AL
It's been said that when your opponent manages to grab a Peanut you should not change your gameplay or approaches at all. When they have one of your bananas in hand, however, things change; they can throw it at you to halt an approach, Z-Drop it in the air, or Glide Toss away from you, throw it off the stage to get rid of it, as well as an assortment of other things.

Now, assuming they already have a banana, what should or would you do in the following situations where your opponent has a banana, character-independent?
  • Up Close
    You are within range to attack your opponent with low-range moves like Jab or U-Tilt. Hitting your opponent may dislodge the banana from their hand, making you trip; they could also throw it at you (though it may go through you) or Z-Drop it to make you trip.
  • Mid Range
    You are within range to tipper a Dash Attack or strike with a Side-B kick or hump. Here your opponent can throw the banana at you to stop an oncoming attack or begin an offensive.
  • Long Distance
    Here you can just barely hit a Smash Side-B kick, if even that. Your opponent can easily set up the banana to make approaching considerably more difficult.

Glide Tossing and DACITs are other, character-dependent, factors that must be considered. How would these effect the responses to the above situation if their Glide Toss/DACIT is
  • Short
    Shorter than Diddy's Glide Toss; within dribbling range
  • Medium
    The length of Diddy's Glide Toss or a bit longer; within dribbling range at the shorter end of the spectrum
  • Long
    Meta Knight, Pit, and Luigi all have Glide Tosses this length. Some DACITs fall into this category.

Finally, the current state of all bananas on the field comes into play. What if
  • No banana
    There is no other banana in play
  • One banana, your control
    There is another banana on the field under your control
  • One banana, their control
    There is another banana on the field under their control
  • Banana in hand
    You are holding the other banana

Not many opponents will give you much time to think once they have a banana in hand; in fact, a lot of the time they will inadvertently pick up a banana in a lucky airdodge or Neutral-A when trying to Jab and might not even realize they have a banana at all! When they do, however, the risks/rewards of approaching, attacking, or defending against an opponent with one of your bananas is something that is becoming more and more important as they learn to use our bananas against us. So, what do you do in response to the above cases?

Note: I’ll keep the OP updated with strategies/tips for each of the cases if it doesn’t get too confusing. Also, I'm not putting in any of my own input because this is actually a very elaborate question of my own that I felt needed asking for the community as well.

EDIT: The best response that ended the discussion by itself: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7476617&postcount=5
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
at a precise range, a dash attack would be nonpunishable (unless it's marf)(or MK) cus throwing a banana is slower than grabs :p
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
1,193
If they are grounded, I like to run up to them and shield, they can't grab you since they have an item and as soon as they throw the banana, you can grab them…They might try to short hop and throw the banana down, if you can, Grab them out of their jump, otherwise Uair them while simultaneously catching the banana.

If they throw the banana before you get up close, just shield and Z-catch…Mid-range, you can just SHFF Fair to catch the banana and punish them, you can do this against glide tosses as well, unless a SH Fair doesn't hit them, such as MK. Against DACITs, just catch the thrown banana either by Fair or AD.

It might be important to note that there are some characters that will take a banana and use specials to camp leaving you with only one banana to attack with…Some characters that I have encountered that can do this are Toon Link, Olimar, and Wolf.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
Now, assuming they already have a banana, what should or would you do in the following situations where your opponent has a banana, character-independent?

* Up Close
You are within range to attack your opponent with low-range moves like Jab or U-Tilt. Hitting your opponent may dislodge the banana from their hand, making you trip; they could also throw it at you (though it may go through you) or Z-Drop it to make you trip.
depending on character/stage/situation I like to jab/dtilt/grab.
* Mid Range
You are within range to tipper a Dash Attack or strike with a Side-B kick or hump. Here your opponent can throw the banana at you to stop an oncoming attack or begin an offensive.
I try to bait the banana throw and block it with a shield and then catch it with Z or an aerial, I also like to turn around and start SH Bairing and try to catch the banana sometimes I mix it up with a SH bair to side-b as well. I'll also try to run away and get space and pull another peel out
* Long Distance
Here you can just barely hit a Smash Side-B kick, if even that. Your opponent can easily set up the banana to make approaching considerably more difficult.
Sam thing as mid range

Glide Tossing and DACITs are other, character-dependent, factors that must be considered. How would these effect the responses to the above situation if their Glide Toss/DACIT is

* Short
Shorter than Diddy's Glide Toss; within dribbling range
I'll do the same thing here as the first situation listed above, pretty much anything shorter than Diddy's GT is close to useless
* Medium

The length of Diddy's Glide Toss or a bit longer; within dribbling range at the shorter end of the spectrum
I'll do the same thing as I do in the 2nd situation listed above
* Long
Meta Knight, Pit, and Luigi all have Glide Tosses this length. Some DACITs fall into this category.
I'll do the same thing as the 3rd situation listed above, but Ill also be prepared for the glidetoss by getting my shield ready and punish the glidetoss with a shield grab or dtilt etc.

Finally, the current state of all bananas on the field comes into play. What if

* No banana
There is no other banana in play
I'll get one into play unless I'm in the middle of a string of attacks or trying to edgeguard.
* One banana, your control
There is another banana on the field under your control
I'll attempt to pressure them to the banana, but at the same time, making sure they don't get enough room and time to get control of my banana, and I'll pick it up if I'm not pressuring them into it.
* One banana, their control
There is another banana on the field under their control
depends on the situation, first off I'd try to get it back if I had enough room and time, if they're staying close to it and guarding with projectiles and attacks with a lot of range then I'd get another one out and approach them.

* Banana in hand
You are holding the other banana
I'd do pretty much what you're suppose to do with Diddy in general, mindgame them into it and with it and just try to punish their mistakes with it.

in quote 10 chars.
 

chimpact

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
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There's not really much to worry about when your opponent has a banana in his hand, unless it's marth or rob. Rob has bad aerials, but great projectiles while Marth has side b, and a quick glide toss. Other characters like Donkey Kong, MK, Lucario, and kirby can't really do anything. they approach through the air so they are less effective.
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
1,193
There's not really much to worry about when your opponent has a banana in his hand, unless it's marth or rob. Rob has bad aerials, but great projectiles while Marth has side b, and a quick glide toss. Other characters like Donkey Kong, MK, Lucario, and kirby can't really do anything. they approach through the air so they are less effective.
Rob's ground game is good enough where I would want 2 bananas to approach with, considering I usually use one to knock away the gyro...This could also be said for Lucario, I wouldn't want to be limited to one banana when approaching, the simple fact that he's holding a banana makes my approach less effective.

Characters that approach in the air can still use bananas very effectively as shield pressure the same way Diddy would use them. They can throw it down in front of you and Bair you into it (Wolf's Bair->DACUS/Fsmash)...But there are some characters where them throwing a banana is arguably better than their intended attack...
 
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