~Stage Discussion~ Stage 8: Castle Seige

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 28, 2009

8th Stage is:
Castle Seige
(adding picture later)

Another transforming stage, what can Snake do with this beseiged fortress mess?

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7th Stage is:

Frigate Orpheon

Frigate in short is a good stage for Snake. This stages will grant Snake a number of advantages. The first is the way the stage is colored. It can allow his explosives to be masked by the darkness and coloring of the stage. The other advantage is the size of the first part and the camping that the 2nd part can give him. The 1st part of the stage is small enough that it can aid him in this control of the stage and tech chasing. When the stage flips it becomes larger, but it makes up for that in adding his camping. The change in elevation in the center allows him to avoid most horizontal projectiles while still being able to grenade camp the opponent.

Probably the main reason to ever consider bringing people to this stage is to capitlize on a characters poor recovery. The 1st part you play on has no ledge on the right. So for many characters that utilize a ledge for recovery, or typically use the auto snap feature of a safe way to get onto the stage are crippled in this respect. Snake too can be abused with the edge missing, but not as much as others can. Besides, we should typically be recovering high to being with.

CP this stage against those with poor recovery options. That list includes a great number of people (but not limited too) ZSS, Olimar, PT (for ivysaur), Marth, spacies, ICs, diddy, and more. It's also a legit counter to MK. It's small spacing for the stage allows for his air camping or stalling to minimized.
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6th Stage is:
Brinstar

Brinstar gives Snake many 1Ups to his gamplay. The close blastzones coupled with his high knockback attacks will give a quick death to many opponents. The stage itself is small with 3 platforms, and the main floor that can be split near the center. This allows teching chasing opponents much easier to follow on their rolls. Snake's Mines, grenades, and C4 are easily masked by the terrain making it sometimes difficult for your opponent to see the explosives. The lava from the stage is excellent as it can protect you against spikes and cypher grabs. It also adds a nice ~10% of damage to your opponent if they get hit (10% to Snake is negliable).

While the stage gives plenty of advantages to Snake, there are equally many other characters that can turn the stage to there advantage against Snake. DK, MK, Wario, and Marth are just such characters that you want to avoid bringing here.

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5th Stage is:
Delfino Plaza

Delfino Plaza is split into 2 major sections: A flying portion, and a grounded portion. Each section is split into various layouts. The stage starts out in one of the flying variations before going into a grounded variation, then it will take back to the flying portion and repeat.

The flying portion will be like BF, but with the main section being like that of Halberd and the platforms up top are arranged in various postions. It's recommended that you play on this section much like you would on BF. Take note that the bottom of the stage is open to attacks from below, so be wary of that fact.

The grounded portion are more varied. It's split into 9 different possible layouts.

Beach1
This layout of the stage makes you battle on a mounded hill of sand, with water on either side. It's best to avoid the water at all costs and just try to control the top of the mound. SHould your opponent fall into the water, it's a good chance to try to spike them.

Beach2
This layout is just like Beach 1, the only exception is that the mound you fight on is wider, and low slope angles. But the same principal still applies. Control the middle, and try to avoid going into the water.

Shine Sprite Gate
On this bit, you fight a top the Shine Sprite Gate. The gate is arranged with a rounded top center that rises up between 2 platform sections. The raised center thus creates a wall next to the platforms. And beware that people will try to get any kind of wall trick on you here, so try to avoid that. The platforms do have ledges that you can grab onto. Beware that these platforms cannot be fallen through, but people can attack up from underneath them. It's best to take this stage by camping on one of the sides and toss over grenades till they get close to you, if you feel threatened by the wall, escape and move other to the other side till the stage changes.

Fountain
The part you fight on this time is nothing more than a flat piece of stage, with a dip in the center of it, and the sides are walk offs. Plus, a nice little fountain in the background

Due to walk offs and no platforms, it's best if you try to control and camp from the center. Try to keep your opponent between the nearest side and you.

Rock Pillars
This bit here takes the battle to 3 rock pillars that jut out of the water. The rock pillars can be wall jumped by various characters, and has edges for you to grab onto with both sides. The problem is that the rock pillars have very limited movement space for you to fight on. It's probably best to avoid falling into the water whenver possible and just plank the stage by using the various edges. If you need to move, dont' stay on a platform too long and utilize your grenades and C4 to make the rock pillars unsafe areas for people to land on. The Stage here does has an incredibly low ceiling compared to the rest of the Delfino Plaza stage variations. This makes it a great place to try to get a kill in.

Rooftop
The match this time takes place a top a rooftop. The stage in the center rises up slightly, has a couple of small walls on either side of it, dips back up a bit, and then gets so close to the end of the stage one could call it a walk off. The thing to note here is that the right side DOESN'T HAVE AN EDGE, so if you try to recover there you'll simply fall to your doom. The left side is in fact a true walk off. To tackle this portion, simple avoid going anywhere near the walkoffs and try to camp near the wall. But avoid being caught next to the wall. If you are pressured, simple flee over to the other side and repeat your camping.

Delfino Square
The central of Delfino. A big building in the background, and palm trees. This portion is almost exactly like Final Destination. The difference is that the pit is replaced by water. Simply play here like you would on final destination, but avoid getting caught in the water. Good spiking chance if your opponent falls in.

Umbrella Land
The layout of this variation is rather simple. Strating from the right is a walkoff. Going left across the stage you run into 2 umbrellas that will act like low lying platforms. Continuing further right the stage dips down. In there is a low wall, and on the left is a higher wall, but if you go too high you'll run into the blastzone. The choice here is to either try to camp on the left side with the walls, or control the center of the map staying away from both sides. Naturally, if you face a DDD, avoid the left side at all costs to avoid the wall infinite. From the center you control the whole stage, from the left you can still control the stage and deal with less projectile spam. Plus, the walls can act as a shield against high damage by DIing into them if you get hit. Look at the situation at hand, and decide which course to take.

Docks
This section can be a pain for Snake to fight on. In the center is dip in the stage that is made up of walls. On the right is a narrow strip with a walk off. On the left is a small chuck of land, a low lying platform, and water. Going further is the blast zone. The center is covered by wall shenaigans, the sides are death traps. It's hard to decide where to fight on this part. It's probably best to always keep shifting while you camp along the way. This will cause your opponent to spend more time trying to follow you around, then actually taking advantage of the pressure they could otherwise be applying to you.

Overall, this isn't a terrible stage for Snake. But neither is it his best. If you just apply your game play to fit with the tide of the stage, you'll do fine. The problem with it is that Snake cannot take advantage of the walls and walk offs as well as other characters can. But Snake can be taken advantage of

This stage is one that really more of a CP against snake than one we would pick. There are better choices for Snake to choice from, but if you know the stage better than the oppostion, then go ahead and CP this against them. If you were to ban this stage against anyone, it would be against a DDD main.

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Fourth Stage is:

LYLAT CRUISE

Lylat Cruise is yet again another stage that is benefical to Snake. It's small and compact allowing for good control of the stage. The tilting of the stage is a natural boon as it can help mess up peoples recovery. You can also take advantage of the tilting with the aid of grenades as they will fall down the slope or can be shot off of resulting in an arc. Your C4 will blast through the bottom of the stage which can help against those who try to fly underneath the stage.

Snake has excellent stage control because of the way the stage is arranage. If Snake stays near the edge of the stage he can control pretty much the whole stage and all the platforms. That platforms are low enough that your grenades can be thrown near them and keep your opponent pressured. Once closer they are in range of your CQC attacks. With the aid of C4 and mines you can also cover all of the platforms equally.

If you ever want to use this stage, it's a good one for messing up CGs and spacies. Overall it just helps against anyone with a poor recovery. Beware that your C4 Recovery is nerfed as you either go above the stage or underneath it as it's very hard to aim for the ledge to tech such a small space.

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Third Stage is:

POKEMON STADIUM 1

Summary Pending. (I'll update you someday, I promise

)

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Second Stage is:

Rainbow Cruise

Rainbow Cruise is agrued to be one of the worst stages for Snake. A lot of his normal gameplay is ruined on this stage. Tech Chasing, Grenades, C4s and Mines are a few things that are affected by the stage.

The stage will be summarized in three parts: 1)Ship 2) Assent 3) Side Scrolling.

1) Ship -

The ship allows Snake the most access to normal gameplay. This section is tight and compact allowing for good stage control over the your opponent. Mines and C4s are uneffected here as with the rest of the stage they have to be applied differently. The major thing to be aware of is the wall. Many people have infinites or something against walls that easily racks up damage. Avoid placing yourself in that kind of situation and play on the ship like you would any other stage.

2)Accent -

When the ship docks and falls into the sky below to the pendulm in the skys. This segment of the stage is where Snake starts to get messed up by a lot of things and has to adapt. The stage starts to rise up with platforms disappearing beneath you with a narrow blast zone on the left. During this segment it's advised to take the stage in one of 2 appraoches: staying ahead of the movement of the stage, or to stay towards the disappearing portions of the stage.

By staying ahead of the stage you avoid getting stuck being forced to advance upwards which you can get hit as you start to accend. If you go with this it's best to play defensively with C4s and grenades being placed on the platforms and try to wait for the person to come into range of your attacks. Explode the C4s often so you avoid having a C4 on the stage when you really need it to C4 recover at any moment.

If you decide to stay towards the bottom of the stage you are forced to keep up with the accent of the stage, but you can take a more controlling aspect of the stage. By using cooked grenades and mortar you can try to attack the person above and if they get close you resort to CQC against them which you should have the superior CQC against most people.

3) Side Scrolling -

After the pendulam the stage will start to move horizontally leaving the platform jumping behind. This section has a relatively low ceiling which you can abuse to get your kills. Mortar Sliding is actually useful here compared to the rest of the stage. Since the stage is still moving you cannot really apply C4 and mines like you could on another stages, but grenade camping is an option. So on this portion you can apply your typical game play as normal. You just have to adapt to the changes in things disappearing staying on the move. Be careful to not get caught on the platforms when the stage finally decents back into the ship segment.

This stage is evil against Snake when used as a CP with some characters such as Meta Knight and Kirby. Their Uthrow can lead to early KOs as there Uthrow would land on the hightest most platform to do the damage. They also have decent recovery and can abuse Snake with their ability to gimp you. Overall you want to avoid the stage when you can, it might even be one you would want to always ban where available. It is though a decent stage that Snake can play on, you just have to take the time to learn to play on it.

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First Stage is:

HALBERD

Summary:

Halberd is a stage that is divided into 2 sections lasting about 1 and 25 second each: A flying platform and the deck of the Halberd.

The flying platform is made up of a larger platform that dips in the center and a platform above the dip. The slants here can be good for chucking grenades into the slants to "get a "cannon" like effect, which you can shield drop another grenade to stop this launched grenade to the correct point in it's arc. The lower platform can be attacked through, so use this to great effect and watch out for people trying to attack through it. C4 can also hit through the platform making it a great use for anti-planking attempts.

The deck of the Halberd is a great place for camping. It is large and allows plenty of room to maneveur. The central platform can also be used to great effect with mines and C4s. There are a few stage hazards that will pop up here: a claw, laser, and bomb. You will notice the claw will becoming when it starts waving about in the background and can hit either you or the opponent. The laser will select a target and will start following them till it fires the laser. The laser hits with multiple hits before sending off a single pulse that gives good knockback. The laser can be SDIed out of because of the multiple hits. The bomb will be launched off and float slowly down till around the middle of the screen and explode.

The ceiling for both sections is rather low, so any veritcal kills are enhanced on this stage. That makes it a great CP for lightweight characters such as MK. The bottom of the stage is also very deep allowing great ease in C4 recovery.

Previous Threads:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181505

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207860

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 28, 2009

Saved for space should it ever be needed.

SuSa · May 28, 2009

I would avoid bringing characters that have good horizontal killing abilities. (DK) and such. I tend to bring characters who are lightweight here because uptilt is 'buffed' with the low ceiling during the flying platform phase.

You have to be way of the claw/lazer but by controlling the stage you can sometimes manipulate your opponent enough to be able to hit them into the laser.

The C4 is useful here because of the thin platform and it can hit under it, so it prevents planking as well.

(I rarely use this stage FYI but thought I'd try and help)

and thanks for making this.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 28, 2009

Just a little something about the stage that is often forgotten till you actually get into a battle. Whenever the stage transforms, you can often times find any attack you were in the middle of being interupted. This can be a good thing and annoying at times. It can be a good thing as if you happen to be caught in ICs CG or DDDs CG around this time, it can help you out.

When the stage ends it's flying section to land on the deck, that can be a good time to get off of it and get underneath it while the opposition is still on the flying platform. They will start going down towards you and almost not retaliate in anyway. Free uptilt or other opprotunity to attack with something safely.

After a 1 minute and 20-25 seconds from the start the flying platform section will end and you'll land on the deck.

About 1 minute 25 seconds later the flying portion will start up again. And the cycle repeats.

Grenades can be thrown at the ground on the angled parts to make the grenade arc. YOu can have some grenade shenanigans with this. Throw one there to arc over there heads, then grenade strip it. Decent for camping at times.

SuSa · May 28, 2009

That is done on any stage that transitions IIRC

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 28, 2009

Just mentioning it. And it's annoying that I cannot find a single decent image of the Halberd in it's 2 phases.

Nic64 · May 28, 2009

Great CP for light characters, utilt and C4 kill early, the flying part is also nice because you can put C4 on the stage and still have enough time to detonate it and C4 recover sometimes. Aside from the odd platform location being higher than normal creating these circumstances, it's sorta like a neutral except for the ship when there are stage hazards. Also the background on this stage when flying can be highly distracting, this can be good for you or bad for you...

napZzz · May 28, 2009

This is a great stage to take meta on IMO, or any other character with no projectiles because once you get to the ship its large and hard for you to die, and the large stage in general just makes it easy to camp like a beast

RATED · May 29, 2009

-NaPPy said:
This is a great stage to take meta on IMO, or any other character with no projectiles because once you get to the ship its large and hard for you to die, and the large stage in general just makes it easy to camp like a beast

I use this stage a lot, bcuz I main snake and ddd, and this stage is awesome for "uptilt kills" but yeah I think this is a good CP against MK with both that I mentioned, also the platform helps snake camping game, c4 placed for stop stalling, the deck is huge so is camping time.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 30, 2009

I should be adding all this stuff to it soon, how long do you think should be taken on a topic? No more than a week at most I would think, and hopefully more people will contribute. 5 is good, but more is better. I still cannot find an idiotic Halbred picture that displays the deck and flying platform sections.

SuSa · May 30, 2009

Few days if we get our information quickly.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · May 30, 2009

SuSa said:
Few days if we get our information quickly.

*thinks back the boards history record of getting out information quickly*

I think the thread looks a bit more organized now.

SuSa · May 30, 2009

We normally dish out information quickly, but never update, then slow down, and then die, and then repeat.

yellowroy · May 30, 2009

SuSa said:
I would avoid bringing characters that have good horizontal killing abilities. (DK) and such. I tend to bring characters who are lightweight here because uptilt is 'buffed' with the low ceiling during the flying platform phase.

You have to be way of the claw/lazer but by controlling the stage you can sometimes manipulate your opponent enough to be able to hit them into the laser.

The C4 is useful here because of the thin platform and it can hit under it, so it prevents planking as well.

(I rarely use this stage FYI but thought I'd try and help)

and thanks for making this.

DK is actually good to bring here.

This stage is too good for snake, Utilt kills early, and basicly most of the stuff Havokk said.

Mk's ussualy ban this on me.

Terios the Hedgehog · May 30, 2009

Halberd is awesome sauce. If you face a MK and he doesn't strike it this is a sure thing. Putting C4 on the side of Halberd and exploding it is awesome fun too. Not PRACTICAL but fun. Can Snake Uptilt and catch people recovering up from under the thing platform on the launch pad? C4 works I know that much.

TwentyTwo · May 31, 2009

Great stage, everyone has already said early kills and such. Aside from that while the stage is moving around you can have a c4 on the main area (not the platform) and honestly a lot of people I play against forget about it and whenever they do recover under the stage shenanigans to avoid my mortars and such I can usually nail a c4. Also at the start of the match you can also dthrow on the part that's not the main part of the stage and instant kill, but that's really a matter of people not knowing what's going on, and you timing perfectly to be able to recover to the stage still.

SuSa · Jun 2, 2009

Maybe a sticky will help this out.

*Gets some sticky notes*

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 5, 2009

It's been a week, and we cannot really wait any longer. Plus, it seems everything has already been said (nothing for 4 days). Next stage is:

Rainbow Cruise.

If you have anything further to add about Halberd that hasn't already been mentioned than go ahead. After Rainbow Cruise, I'll start taking suggestions on stages to discuss.

SuSa · Jun 5, 2009

RC:

1) Mines/C4 move with the stage, so they are less reliable. (However if you get up top like an idiot and place a c4, it can come in handy for some earlier kills

2) There aren't many ledges throughout this level, so try to land on stage after up-B

3) Grenades can be useful to manage on slanted parts. Abuse the slants.

4) During the "third phase" (I divide it into Ship, Climbing, Side-scroller) it is a REALLY LOW CEILING. Abuse this fact and know that utilt/dtilt will kill earlier

5) Avoid being near the wall in the ship phase. Many characters have a pseudo-infinite/lock against walls like that.... if you get caught, your best hope is to mash B to pull a grenade.

6) Overall I'd say this is a relatively bad level for Snake, a HORRIBLE level if you don't know how to play it. However if you are comfortable with the stage - it's a decent level.

I'd ban it against MK's and Kirby's though. uthrow omnigay...

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 5, 2009

I feel this is Snake's worst stage, and hardly anyone you can bring here will be anymore crippled than snake might be thus, I cannot see this being a reliable CP against anyone. The only time I might ever use this stage is if I felt I knew how to use the stage better than someone else.

Like Susa mentiond about the wall infinites/locks/etc.: G&W, Ike, MK and DDD I know have useful ones here. G&W with the Dtilt, Ike with fthrow, MK with dtilt, DDD with CG.

I think the other people that gets crippled here just as much as Snake does are few a others like Falco, and ICs. Although, ICs I think can get a boon with CG if they mange to get it with closer sides to smash you into.

Probably the best way to approach this stage is to follow with the partsof the stage that are dissappearing. The ship is the most normal game play snake has on this stage. After the ship docks, you will start going up, I feel staying low here will work best with grenades and mortars to hit the person as they go up. Abuse C4 here if you go up ahead of them. Once you start shifting right, gameplay can revert almost back to normal with platforms and pretty flat section. Once it starts going down avoid at all costs getting caught up there.

SuSa · Jun 5, 2009

Ness/Lucas have dtilt against the wall.
Rob has dtilt against the wall.
DK has a dtilt against the wall.

On top of who you've mentioned.

*can't think of anyone else*

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 5, 2009

SuSa said:
Ness/Lucas have dtilt against the wall.
Rob has dtilt against the wall.
DK has a dtilt against the wall.

On top of who you've mentioned.

*can't think of anyone else*

The wall has a little lip just above it, so for the DIed challenged, jab combos, so fox, falco, kirby, etc xD

xLeafybug =D · Jun 5, 2009

Rainbow Cruise is a pretty decent stage for Snake, if you know how to take advantage of it. Well, except for the ship, the ship is just horrible. For the ship, I just camp on the left side and toss out nades, ftilts and nairs, not much else you can do, you got no space.

On the climbing section, you get a bit more freedom. Mines don't work too well, because the stage moves too much for it to be worth doing. C4s are a much better choice. I drop nades around, and build up damage with stronger moves. Kill vertically at the end of the climbing section, or off the left side.

The side scrolling section is the best. You can probably get a good 2 kills on this part of the stage, because there's lots of room, and a super-low ceiling. You can stage spike on the rocking chair thing (I don't think there's a real name for it, but you know what I mean.) off of the falling blocks above it.

Overall, it's not a bad stage IMO for Snake. I think he does better here than any other heavy character. You just need to play differently than usual. But there are definitely better options than playing here, regardless of the character. But you should learn how the stage works, even if you don't like it.

Tero. · Jun 6, 2009

There is a pretty low ceiling on the last part of the stage, so this might help you geting early kills. Rainbow Cruise is pretty much based on aerial fights and since Snake does way better on the ground this is not a real option.

The stage is pretty big so play defensiv with nades and don't rush in.
Because it's a moving Stage C4 and Mines are kinda useless on most parts.

You should learn the mechanics of the stage because it's a common counterpick against Snake. So be sure too at least know the movement and platforms and stuff.

The Cunning Weasel · Jun 6, 2009

This stage can really screw you over. Other times i felt like I got gimped but then I appeared to be standing on another platform.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 6, 2009

.Tero said:
.

The stage is pretty big so play defensiv with nades and don't rush in.
Because it's a moving Stage C4 and Mines are kinda useless on most parts.

From my experience, it is pointless to ever put a mine down, takes to long and people have to run into it, and more than likely it will get in your way.

I've found C4 is fairly important. If you play a style that involves hopping all over the place dropping grenades and exploding C4s near the opponent during the part of the stage when it rises, then it helps greatly. Constant pressure on your opponent to follow you. Just have to make sure you don't get caught in a gimp or else you lost your C4 recovery.

TwentyTwo · Jun 7, 2009

TwentyTwo said:
Let me start by saying, that I'm no pro at Snake, and this is just my opinion. I go to some tourneys in the MD/VA region, and have competed with high level players, so my opinion shouldn't be the word of god, nor should it be completely ignored.

Rainbow cruise is NOT a bad Snake stage. Or it might be, but the point being is that it can be much more devastating to other characters than it can be to Snake. I will try to break down the phases of the stage, and try to explain the strategy I used, to win on this stage.

The first phase, would be the boat phase, during this phase, you can plant c4s on the platforms and they'll hit the area below them, but what you should be aware of, is that there is a wall on the right part of the ship. So do NOT bring people with wall infinites here, unless you prepare readily for this, you have to plant a claymore in that region, so if you do get caught here, the claymore can bail you out, before real damage is dealt. The general strategy here is to bomb like a terrorist like you would anywhere else, but what is important, is that when we approach the next phase, YOU MUST be on the left side. This is important because, you force an approach, that's very odd(the way they approach, not the act of approaching) usually for the other character. This is the case because you're in a position to edge guard basically.

Now the next phase I'm going to call the Magic Carpet phase, is the phase that people will say that is the hardest on Snake. Remember, the key to using this stage is taking the defensive sides, and this phase is no different, EXCEPT that this defensive side is the vertical. So as the defensive side on the boat was the left, the defensive side during this phase is up. So your objective is to stay ahead of your opponent, while making them run through a gauntlet to get to you. Their forced to approach through your explosives, because the stage is on your side as long as you've taken the defensive side. So this area is similar to when you have to vertical camp characters that you are avoiding grabs from (Ex: Ice Climbers, D3) So when you drop c4s you want to detonate relatively soon, and soft toss your grenades/ or bounce them off the ground, or just drop them. If you get time use the mortar, and really just disorient your opponent and make it really tough for your opponent to proceed through the stage. The reason I say you want to explode your c4s relatively soon, it helps disorient your opponent AND in the event something goes wrong, you're able to cypher recover, and c4 yourself.

Now we move onto the next phase, I'm going to call it the Pendulum phase. Now the Pendulum phase is interesting, because you can take the pendulum, or you can take the blocks that are on top of it. If you take the blocks you just vert camp, and if they get in your face hit them away. If you take to the blocks you'll be able to see their approach easy, I wouldn't suggest the blocks against anyone with large disjointed hitboxes above them. Of course the from the blocks you have a low roof, I believe you can utilt the lighter characters like kirby at ~70%? Don't quote me on that just yet, I don't currently have a wii to test this. Now if you decide to settle on the pendulum instead, you still have a relatively low roof, but here's the interesting part, if you uptilt, and they don't DI they get KO'd off the top, but if they DI there's a chance you bounce them off the blocks, and they're in a really bad position or they just die off the bottom. Of course, they might be prepared and tech the blocks, so be prepared for that, and punish accordingly.

The next phase is, the area where its basically a straight run, so I'll be calling it the rainbow run, during this phase you take the right side. Now, it's important to realize that if you can be chaingrabbed off the side, if this is possible take to the platforms. Now you're on the middle or right side of the moving screen, this is key because you have many more options in this area, moves like fsmash become more viable, I say this because a good tactic is to throw your opponent, forward or backwards(basically towards the left) and if they land off screen their is a high likelihood that they will roll forward, and you should have your fsmash waiting for them, and that's an easy low percentage or just a kill in general. If it's a higher percent you can be waiting with ftilt instead. Aside from this you can definitely use this area to your advantage, by throwing nades on top of platforms, and taking quick opportunities to lay your traps, and force an awkward approach from your opponent and punish accordingly. Your grabs are definitely more deadly now because you're so close to blast zones so keep that in mind, but so are many others grabs, but if you controlled the run correctly their approach should be predictable, and very punishable by you. Towards the end of the run however, your defensive side changes, it shifts to being below your opponent. utilt, mortar and the normal anti-air are excellent here.

That about wraps it up, as far as my experience on this stage. Let me be clear about what I'm saying about this stage. Use it on characters that have mainly a horizontal recovery, or a very predictable one. Do NOT take characters such as GW, MK, ROB, and Pika here, I'll try to update more I play with this stage. I would recommend picking this stage against Falco, DK, Ike, and others, that escape my thoughts right now.

-22

This stage is just interesting to work with honestly. I wish I knew the timings off the top of my head for the first set of transitions, because honestly I haven't played too many matches where I went through a stage cycle more than once. I still believe it's a viable counterpick for some characters, slap olimar on my list at the bottom there. With the strategy I outlined here, it's very possible to play on RC and do fine with it.

The only new things I would say would be, you have to know how to tech at any given time. Also, for the magic carpet phase I outlined, you can work from the bottom, but it's a lot harder but cooking nades from the bottom and throwing them up at your opponent is very scary for them, but usually it's safer to not have the stage pushing you.

Eternal Yoshi · Jun 14, 2009

Snake hates gay cruises. This stage can turn many matchups that he has advantages over like Mr. Game & Watch, Yoshi, Kirby, Luigi, Jigglypuff, Peach, Pit,etc. into disadvantages.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 14, 2009

I'm a bit overdue on this one by like 3-4 days (trip johns). But another week+ has come and gone. Like I said before I'll be taking suggestions on what stage we should cover next. If I don't get any by late tonight, then I'll just have to pick and choose.

Black_Heretic · Jun 14, 2009

Let's do Pokemon Stadium 1, great stage and will hopefully generate some good discussion

SuSa · Jun 14, 2009

Agreed with PS1.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 15, 2009

PS1 it is then. 2 votes, it's getting later and I doubt anyone else will post.

Zajice · Jun 15, 2009

Also voting for PS1. >_> So make it 3.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 15, 2009

Zajice said:
Also voting for PS1. >_> So make it 3.

I vote for it as well. So make it 4 xD

SuSa · Jun 15, 2009

Grenades can stage spike if your opponent tries to use the ledge. I'll go get a video right this second in fact. (Although then I can't use that video for my combo video.

)

C4 can also stage spike.

The stage has several transitions, learn them and learn to camp on them.

I have what I feel is a good video for the stage, I'll go record it.

napZzz · Jun 15, 2009

I swear snake does good vs. like..everything on this stage, cept gay D3. Or maybe I just dont use it enough to know otherwise

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 15, 2009

Blast zones seem to be fairly similar to FD. The ledge can help increase the chance of someone with poor recovery by making a mistake and getting caught underneath. Also anyone with recoveries such as MK or Pit won't be able to fly underneath the stage to try to get to the other side for a better chance of recovery.

The stage has these transistions: Neutral, fire, rock, grass, and water fields.

Neutral
These part of the stage is about as neutral as it gets. The location of the platforms I feel is very ideal. You can set mines, C4s and Grenades on these locations as defence against the person your facing while you try to camp in nice space between the ledge and the platform. If you have those things there it makes getting to you rather difficult as the person has to get through a wall of explosives before finally reaching you.

Grass

Rock
This part of the stage I find is one of the more negative parts of the stage. It can be either great or terrible depending upon the one who is approaching. It's bad for Snake because people can take advantage of walls here for infinites (dispite it being unlikely to happen here). Depending upon what the other person decides to do should be how you act. If they decide to camp/stall on the far left side next to the cliff, I would say to drop C4s and grenades down there to flush them out. But be careful what you do and don't get hit by a trap depending upon the player.

The most ideal spot I find for playing is to grab the central part between the cliff and the slanted platform. It's great because nothing anyone has can really get you here unless they drop down. And from there they would be in danger of getting it by a something Snake has previously put down in trying to approach your positions, or hit by a Mortar. Grenades can be thrown over the slanted platform to try to get people to approach you. Apart from all of that, most of the time I find myself just sitting around throwing out attacks while the other person tries to find an opening.

Water
Reminds me of the Dreamland from Melee days. A windmill that rotates clockwise on the left, and 2 platforms (that I believe move) on the right. Take either the left or right side and camp. Both sides you can play quite excellently on. Behind the windmill on the left probably gives the most protection. The windmill and little incline below it protects you quite well from incoming projectiles. Anyone that tries to approach has to time it between the blades rotating. The locations also plays a good part at keeping you alive and being able to combo others. When your hit you can DI to the blades to tech, or hit people into the blades to be able to hit them on the bounce if they fail to tech (just beware that people can do the same to you). Also, if you feel too pressured you can make a quick escape to the top of the blades.

On the right side might be a better place to camp because you actually have more control over the field. Being under 2 platforms gives you an edge. Here the grenades can actually reach everywhere on the field compared to the windmill which was limited to direct vertical and horizontal rach in relation to Snake.

Fire
This is part of the stage that other characters can take advantage of snake on. The left part of the stage with the tree acts as a wall allowing people to abuse infinites.

I'm not entirely sure how to take this segment. It seems to me you can take advantage of the situation if you grab either the left or right side of the stage. I am leaning towards the right side to stay away from the possiblities of infinites as much as possible. On the right side you have a nice platform you can take advantage of with the typical C4, mine and grenade defences.

Overall: I say this is stage is fairly neutral for a counterpick stage. I cannot say who taking here would be any more advantegous than say FD or SV, but I think it makes a great stage for Snake, just not his best.

Zajice · Jun 15, 2009

Basic Stage:
Fairly basic. Just play like any neutral. Stick C4 at the ledges because they can spike pretty easy since it hits pretty far under the stage. Burying a mine in any part of the pokeball makes it pretty much invisible, especially the red part. You can also bury them on the platforms and easily throw/hit people into them.

Ground/Rock Stage:
Not a lot of places to move in here. So if it's in this stage, I usually hang out under the cliff by the ledge till it changes back. Stick a mine and C4 at the top of the cliff and just spam up-smash while you're down there. They can't really do much.

When other people try to hang out there, just drop grenades/C4 off the side. It's a pain to block cause they'll keep getting knocked off the edge and it's hard to get back up without multiple jumps. If they do make it up to the top of the cliff, your moves will kill off the top really early, so abuse that.

Stay out of that area between the cliff and tower thing on the right side. It's usually not very fun to be in there. You can barely move. The only things that can really do anything are up-smash and up-tilt. If some body else is in that area, drop C4's over them to make them get out. Or you can stand on the slanted area on the other side and shoot an f-smash through the wall at them.

The right side is really the best side. You got the most room, but it's still not that great. And that awkward white part by the ledge will screw up all rolls. If you can d-throw somebody in this spot, they can't roll either way, so you can just grab them over and over if they try to roll. Just block any get up attacks. And d-throw till you can kill them.

Windmill Stage:
That windmill messes up the mortar slide, so don't try to mortar slide past it. You can also use it sort of as a mindgame and charge an f-smash so that the windmill pushes you towards them. Not very effective though.

You can set C4 on the windmill and it'll fall off in really weird ways. Sometimes it'll fall on another part of the windmill, sometimes it'll fall off entirely. That and it's really hard to see. Putting a C4 on it a lot will make the opponent wanna stay away from it cause they'll be worried about getting hit when they have no idea where the C4 is.

Mines do the same thing, but they'll explode whenever they fall. So it could hit somebody by surprise. It's not very effective when taking into account how long it takes to bury a mine and how much of a pain it is to get on the windmill anyway, though.

The best part of the windmill is that it can save you if you tech it after a smash. Just know that they can do it too, so aim to hit them away from the windmill.

The rest of the stage is pretty much basic. C4 and mines are very hard to see in the water.

Fire Stage:
Try to stay on the right side if you want more room. If you put a C4 right in that area between the two tree branches, it'll hit people hiding under it. It's also pretty difficult to see any of Snake's explosives on this stage.

It's pretty easy to stand on the left platform and toss grenades over the tree if they refuse to try and approach. Bury a mine right on top of the tree, drop a C4 in front of it, and throw grenades over it while on the platform and they can't really do much to get over to you without risking getting hit.

Grass Stage:
There's not much to say about this stage. Surpisingly, C4 is hard to see on that funky green branch platform. Not sure what else to say on this stage. :/

SuSa · Jun 15, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWChqWGJ7eY

The rest of that match sucked. lol....

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jun 21, 2009

RC summary posted. Will start working on the PS1 here soon. Now, I need ideas for the next stage to discuss. And seriously we need more people to post here.

~Stage Discussion~ Stage 8: Castle Seige

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Smash Lord

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Smash Ace

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Smash Master

Smash Champion

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Smash Ace

I've covered ban wars, you know

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Smash Lord

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BRoomer

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Smash Hero

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BRoomer

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