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Shiri · May 31, 2009

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Frown · May 31, 2009

I've thought about this when I've been using Yoshi's grabs a little too much: My opponent learns to dodge my grabs, and I need to punish his dodges if I want to use Yoshi's awesome grab game.

Jim Morrison · May 31, 2009

I only read the part about Doritos.

Naucitos · May 31, 2009

Frown said:
I've thought about this when I've been using Yoshi's grabs a little too much: My opponent learns to dodge my grabs, and I need to punish his dodges if I want to use Yoshi's awesome grab game.

Theres a few people who've made a habit of spot dodging every time i dash at them, expecting a dash grab.
There is a similar few people who've made a habit of eating fully charged upsmashes.

Depster · May 31, 2009

Good stuff, thanks

bigman40 · May 31, 2009

As always expected from Shiri. Good **** man.

Deleted member · May 31, 2009

This is an amazing article, this is melee-board shiri baby

. Im gonna try to apply this yomi stuff, and get some uses for moves i dont use.
Btw thanks for the SH neutral air to beat samus' dair XD

Keep writing stuff like this shiri and ill smuggle CBRs from mexico and ship um to you

DiscoShark · May 31, 2009

Absolutely fantastic read. The section on Doritos really just brought the points home. It really was the glue that sought to bind the other sections in a more coherent manner. "Doritos" will now be my benchmark in effective conclusions.

Seriously though, the applications for Yomi are really just amazing. And though it might be included in the blanket term "mindgames" you found a way to clearly describe it in a manner that really just made a whole lot of sense.

Eternal Yoshi · May 31, 2009

Nice read. Just be aware that the balance of risk reward of Brawl has been greatly damaged by whoever decided to remove hitstun, that form of l-cancelling, courch canelling, and so on at the last minute.
As a result, many characters like Yoshi, Ganondorf, and especailly Captain Falcon that were designed with the idea of Yomi WITH THESE FACTORS IMPLEMENTED suffered.

What most people seem to miss is that the one who was affected the most was META KNIGHT.

In brighter news, acceptance is the first step towards becoming better.

Chaco · May 31, 2009

Dang Shiri.

You should take a job writing these kinda of things for us every few days. Lol.

Shiri · May 31, 2009

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VSC.D-Torr · May 31, 2009

This was a gread read. Great thread Shiri.

chimpact · May 31, 2009

Title is true.

Poltergust · May 31, 2009

Great job, Shiri. I wish that I read this before my tournament yesterday, though. In my first match I was playing against some unknown Kirby player and we somehow managed to get into the third game. I took him to Pokemon Stadium, and while I was ECE'ing he d-aired me and foot-stooled me right when I was double-jumping (I've never been foot-stooled in an offline tournament match before; it completely shocked me). So what did I do? I ECE'ed AGAIN and got gimped AGAIN. In the end, I lost that match.

What I didn't realize was that Kirby had the tools to deal with ECE, but Yoshi also has the tools to deal with his d-air off the ledge (for example, I could have gotten up from the ledge and d-aired him while he was trying to recover from missing me). I can totally relate to what you are talking about. My Yoshi needs to use his moves more wisely.

Deleted member · May 31, 2009

I was playing a friendly and talkin to someone about yoshis dair, and they asked how much it does and i was like "37, but only if they are dumb and let it get them". And then it hit me. So i was playing a DDD, and i utilted, and he daired and i uaired. NExt time, i utilted, he airdodged, and BAM, i down aired. Conditioned response.

I love shiri

Shiri · May 31, 2009

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Icyo · Jun 1, 2009

Frown said:
I've thought about this when I've been using Yoshi's grabs a little too much: My opponent learns to dodge my grabs, and I need to punish his dodges if I want to use Yoshi's awesome grab game.

Grabbing accomplishes nothing.

MarKO X · Jun 1, 2009

interestingly enough, i have heard about yomi levels for a long time having played street fighter, but never took the time to look it up and understand it.

Thank you Shiri for explaining it. =D

Depster · Jun 1, 2009

Dair did 56 in SSB64 .-.

And Icyo, Yoshi's grabs are a core part of his meta game, troll a different board.

Eternal Yoshi · Jun 1, 2009

Dair did 58% in 64, and 56% in Melee.

MarKO X · Jun 1, 2009

but only does 37 in Brawl?
Wow. Sakurai really hates Yoshi. =(

hotgarbage · Jun 1, 2009

excellent read

Yosheon · Jun 3, 2009

Wow, Shiri, that was a very good article. I now have more understanding about Yomi.

Eternal Yoshi said:
Dair did 58% in 64, and 56% in Melee.

The maximum damage that Yoshi's d-air did was 56% damage in SSB64, 48% damage in SSBM, and 34-37% damage in SSBB.

MarKO X said:
but only does 37 in Brawl?
Wow. Sakurai really hates Yoshi. =(

Of course.

Metatitan · Jun 3, 2009

Sakurai hates jigglypuff more than yoshi. He tried so hard to make her crap tier, it took him a few games to do it though. Just look at her rest compared to melee and see who he hates the most (although look at falcon lolol).

Delta-cod · Jun 3, 2009

Good read Shiri.

Also, didn't Falcon stay mainly the same and just get screwed over by the new engine?

Shiri · Jun 3, 2009

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Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

Basically, characters that relied on combos and hit-stun in Melee just don't do well in Brawl if they still can't do combos. Fox, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Sheik... they all got hurt badly. The only character that is still great that was great in Melee is Falco because he actually does have combos still.

Shiri · Jun 4, 2009

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Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

Well... he still has combos. =O

Metatitan · Jun 4, 2009

Yoshi has never really excelled in any smash game, mabey 64 but not many people play that. He was average in 64, not good in melee, and not good in brawl. But who cares, he's the cutest char in brawl right?

Metatitan · Jun 4, 2009

Sorry for the double post, this is an entirely different subject I'm talking about. I remember talking to a variety of character mains when regarding matchup discussions with jigglypuff. They all agreed that unless it was easy to do and plausible in a tournament match, perfect resting should be left out of matchup discussions. I think this also applies to Dragonic Reverse. Nobody except for Scatz and Chaco actually use this AT and no one really will until either of the two show video evidence on why they believe its so good, or unless they place a lot higher in tournaments. I am not "hating" on DR or either of these two players, I just don't see the point in including DR in matchup discussions when the top yoshi mains are not using it. Do I hate DR? Of course not, it opens a lot of possibilities, none of which are useful yet but who knows what we may discover with it. The important thing to do is to continue research on it, see what we can do with it, what we can't do with it, and move on. But I personally feel that until a practical use is found for it, it should be left out of matchup discussions.

Depster · Jun 4, 2009

I use DR. Darnit how many times do I have to say that?

Shiri · Jun 4, 2009

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Purple · Jun 4, 2009

Metatitan said:
Snip

Wavedashing was considered inviable in melee. At least it was, however it helps with mindgames and baiting out attacks. Yoshi can't bait out many attacks from characters like snake and such without gettnig himself in danger that's hard to get out of. DR'ing helps. Just not to you.

Metatitan · Jun 4, 2009

Pervatasaurus said:
Wavedashing was considered inviable in melee. At least it was, however it helps with mindgames and baiting out attacks. Yoshi can't bait out many attacks from characters like snake and such without gettnig himself in danger that's hard to get out of. DR'ing helps. Just not to you.

Wavedashing was also much more consistent than DR and had more of a placing in melee than it would be in brawl. You've been watching The Onion haven't you

?

Purple · Jun 4, 2009

Metatitan said:
Wavedashing was also much more consistent than DR and had more of a placing in melee than it would be in brawl. You've been watching The Onion haven't you ?

i don't see how the onion has any relevance to my post XD.

But that's like saying Falco's laser's aren't as fast as they were in melee, and had much more placing on all of falco's approaches and such. Boost smash doesn't help falco etc. etc.

I can say this, but i don't do these techs and I'm only a mid level falco. Kismet2 practiced and perfected these steps and it's helped his falco become national level.

tocador · Jun 4, 2009

Why is yoshi so awsome =/!

/troll off

I really loved that ~~Doritos~~ Yomi stuff you talked abbout! In fact i had never head abbout Yomi but i consistently use it, as a diddy main i kinda should, and it really helps improving your game ^^!

A question btw, ~~Why is yoshi so awsome~~ how should i train DR? And yes, i know this isnt the apropirate thread, but like im here.....

NinjaFoxX · Jun 4, 2009

read.

good stuff.

this is useful data.

bigman40 · Jun 4, 2009

Don't train for DR cause you know what? It ****ing sucks.

The Nameless Wanderer · Jun 4, 2009

I prefer the 30th Best

.

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