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Ask Smash God stuff about... Offstage/Edgeplay stuff Thread

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BRoomer
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As a Luigi player, you should all be aware that Luigi doesn't have the greatest recovery if you don't know how to get a perfect tornado recovery (very difficult to achieve).

Therefore, I wish to share my knowledge of edgeguarding/offstage gameplay with Luigi against other characters. I feel it's something important for every Luigi player to master, so I will share any knowledge I can with you guys!

I guess we could start out with character-specific edgeguarding. Any suggestions?
 
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professor mgw

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Edgeguarding mario is kinda hard.
his UP+B has so much priority it isn't funny.How do i get around that???
 
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I know what you mean about Mario's UpB: the priority is ridiculousss. I find the most efficient way to beat it is to wait until the last frame when he has a hit box and then aim an Ftilt depending on where Mario is. Generally it isn't too good of an idea for Mario to try and sweetspot the edge because of his lack of vertical recovery with that move.

If you're hanging on the edge with Luigi and want to edgeguard a Mario who might use UpB, I believe Fair and Bair would work. You would trade hits and Mario would die.


Fox is a veryy broad topic. Where would you to start?
 
MarkLoo

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you get fox off the stage.
He's too far to dj sweetspot the ledge, but he's high enough to illusion back or firefox back.
what do you do?
 
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Well there are two ways Fox could go from there:

A. He Firefoxes/illusions onto the stage

B. He Firefoxes/illusions onto the edge

For B, obviously just edgehog.

For A, you have a few options. If Fox is at high percents, I like to kill him right off the bat. Let him finish the illusion/firefox (usually firefox if going back onto the stage) and make sure you aim the killing move at his landing spot. Personally, I like to finish the job with a sweetspotted UpB. It's easy because if Fox doesn't land where you expect, you can just wavedash -> Ftilt him from where you are fairly easily. Other options for the kill are Fair/Dair and Usmash or Fsmash

If he's at low percents, Ftilt is a nice push off the stage. If you're comfortable off the stage, wavedash/drop off the stage and jump into an Fair. I say Fair instead of Dair because of the forward range that Fair gives you. The range increases your chance of hitting Fox, who is coming straight at you (which is why we like the forward range).

After Fox is off the stage again, grab the ledge. There are numerous things to do from here. You could drop off and hit with the backwards hit of Uair, or hit with Dair if he is below you, or, more safely, Bair. If you definitely know what the Fox is going to do, you can even hit Fox with the coin hit of your UpB which TOTALLY screws him over. They never expect it, and when you interrupt their momentum with such a random move, coupled with their fast falling-ness, Fox just drops like a rock. After that, there really isn't anything Fox can do.

Bair is safe for most situations though.
 
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one of my friends mains kirby, and so around 50%, i've been doing bthrow to get him off the stage, then i jump of the stage, fair, and jump back.
is there a better way?
 
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Bair is always safest, but I think Fair works pretty well for Kirby. The range is nice. Dair for when Kirby is below you.

If Kirby UpB's, hit with an aerial! He'll lose all of his jumps and fall to his doom.

Pakman: it's never too early to start edgeguarding if they're off the edge ;)
 
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Dynamism?

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bair is like a sex kick so it covers area for a longer period. Meaning, if someone like Mario or Marth, with a FAST UpB is coming up to the ledge, a fair is risky since they can avoid it, but a bair will last long enough to not let them get by.
 
otg

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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Here's a question from someone who doesn't use luigi:

How the **** do you guys deal with Fox's shine? it's way to easy to gimp luigi, what do you guys do to get around it because it at least IMO shine alone ***** luigi.
 
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Rappster, does that question imply that the Luigi doesn't die?

otg: I usually just outspace Fox with Uair before he even reaches me for the shinespike. If he shines me onstage, it's not really a big deal. Just WD forward and a lot of the distance is made up for
 
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Dynamism?

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like 4 probably
really depends where and when on who and what way.
lol

Against Fox shinespikes...just don't get in a position where you have to UpB and he's sitting above you mashing B and holding down and there's a way to get back.

Uair is good, even back away Fair or Bair or whatever accordingly if he comes off at the wrong time.
 
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Yeah, the only way you should get shinespiked is if you only have UpB as an option and Fox CC shines you.

It's definitely more than 4
 
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Dynamism?

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Smash G 0 D said:
Yeah, the only way you should get shinespiked is if you only have UpB as an option and Fox CC shines you.

It's definitely more than 4
Click to expand...
Like 10 maybe. How many times are you gonna use more than 4 though? hahah





And if the Fox REALLY knows the match up....
They come off stage, shinestall by the edge mashing B. If you UpB, the coin hits them and you die.
Pretty much just don't UpB and you should be able to avoid shines.
 
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what about edgeguarding pikachu? he seems to consistently go up and over wherever i'm waiting for him (e. g., if i knock him off the stage on battlefield, and wait at the edge, he often up-b's onto that first platform).

how should i deal with that?
 
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dair/fair him back off?
Back up a little depending where he is offstage. I have like no pika exp. but that's what I would probably do. Wait for him to make the move. Even when he grabs the ledge, he can't really go anywhere from there :p
 
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I'm glad you're learning! I believe that the SideB was an attempt to hurry up the death, as there was nothing he could do to save himself. Or a mistake
 
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if you get in the way of pikachu's upb, then is it interrupted?
also, can priority be reduced to a number? (i.e. marths fsmash has a priority of 249 or something)
 
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Pika's UpB won't be interrupted if you don't attacked it.

I guess you could make a number system for priority, but it isn't really something that would be worth the effort in my opinion.
 
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i see.
that makes me sad.
i always read how attack x has ridiculous priority, or attack y has really good priority.
i'm an engineer at heart.
i need absolutes.
edit: perhaps i should make my own thread somewhere else to b**** about this. sorry
 
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It's alright. I'll show you some basic priority stuff here.

Aerials: never clash, so priority doesn't matter. Aerials will always trade hits.

Disjointed Hitbox: Infinite priority, only other disjointed hitboxes will go through these. (i.e. Marth's sword)

Luigi's Ftilt has really good priority, which is what makes it such a good approach move.
 
Pakman

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Rappster said:
against characters without a useful upb, (jiggly yoshi etc) are fireballs ever viable as an edgeguarding tool?
Click to expand...
For the most part, no. Jiggs can easily avoid them and Yoshi has his stupid jump frames.

Against Jiggly you can use a fireball and predict how she is going to dodge it and jump out and fair, but for the most part I would use your standard aerial attacks against those characters.

Against Jiggs I generally kill by means of Up smash and feel very uncomfortable edge guarding. You can only hit her out and up and she usually doesn't need a jump to get back from that. I am by no means saying don't edge guard Jiggs I am just saying it usually doesn't work.
 
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i see.
so in general, if you wanna offstage guard, jump out and bair unless:
1 you can predict his/her recovery and fair it or
2 if (s)he is below you, dair.

what about onstage guarding?
 
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What do you mean by onstage guarding?

Fireball is a legit edgeguarding move on Fox and Falco when they're in a line with the stage. Shoot a fireball while they're charging UpB or in the middle of SideB and they'll drop, giving you the perfect opportunity to Fair. Personally, I like to wavedash to the edge while using a fireball, so I'll slide off and immediately get the aerial after they drop.
 
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Dynamism?

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Rappster said:
you wanna offstage guard
Click to expand...
NEVER OFF STAGE EDGE GUARD WITH LUIGI!!!

unless it's something blatantly silly and situationally safe

you'll just get gimped by a jiggs or sheik and ***** when you make it back AFTER them when they dodge you or trade hits or some crap.
 
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No, Rappster, you are correct.

Dynamism, the point of the thread is to teach people how to offstage edgeguard and onstage edgeguard -.-

With Jiggs, you want to watch out for the SideB, as that will put you behind her. Jiggs is generally safer to wait on the stage or hanging on the edge (but don't get hit with SideB if you're on the edge). Sheik's only gimp if you're offstage edgeguarding her is an Fair stage spike, but if that happens you can tech the stage and recover. Generally you should play it safe with her too, as she's invincible during her UpB, so you want to be waiting for when she reappears.
 
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