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The goodness combo - A lock/0-death on rob (+VIDEO TUTORIAL !!=D)- and more (+ video)

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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!IMPORTANT! - HERE IS A HIGH QUALITY .GIF SHOWING THE GOODNESS COMBO ENDING IN A FALCON PUNCH:



^Credit to wogrim for the accepting+turning my replay in a .gif =D
and I am the player controlling falcon in said^ .gif =D


Here is a video which sums up the content of this thread quite nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqEduIbMebE

~The goodness combo~

I've only tested this on rob, and am not sure if it works on other characters.
If it does work on other characters, it will probably only work on floaties.

The goodness combo = First hit Nair (abbreviation: FHN)-->footstool>-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->force standup-->FHN-->footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspot Bair lock-->force standup-->falcon punch/sweetknee*

*IMPORTANT: The combo can be ended with a falcon punch without rob beeing able to escape. BUT the timing is so strict, that you are better off ending the goodness combo with a sweet knee. I only got to end the goodness combo with a falcon punch without rob beeing able to escape once.. So one can better end the goodness combo with a knee, as that isnt hard to do at all, and only does 9% damage less and also has good knockback.

One is able to do the whole thing of the FHN-->footstool-->FF-->Non sweetspot Bair lock up to 3 maybe 4 times in a row when you start when the opponent has 0 % damage, but as that situation will not always be the case, doing the whole thing twice will do the trick just fine.

But when you do get to setup this (hit with the FHN) when the opponent has 0%, feel free to start of the combo with a sweetspotted bair lock. But this only works the first time when the opponent has 0%, after that you will have to use non-sweetspotted Bair locks, as the sweetspotted bair will just knock the opponent away.

Offcourse one can end the combo with any move you want, but the sweet knee is probably the best ender imo. (good damage+knockback). But smashes are a good option too.

Also, this is not easy to do at first. It was difficult enough for me to doubt it works at first, as I thought that pulling it off 2 times in a row was near impossible, but as I got the hang of it, it became quite easy, and I got it to work consistently, making me able to do it 2+ times in a row. So just practice a little, and you'll get it down. :)

(When performed correctly, and you start the combo with fresh moves, the goodness combo deals 42% damage using the knee as an ender, and 51% damage with the falcon punch as an ender, and sets up for edgeguarding. It may be able to KO when you perform it near the edge of the level you are fighting on, but that will be rare if it even happens.).

~A variation of the goodness combo - Mixing in A Ftilt lock/Ftilt locks

I'll quote myself from further in this thread to explain said variation of the goodness combo:

Also, One can mix one or two Ftilt locks into the goodness combo, but only near the beginning (when the opponent doesnt have alot of damage on him/her yet. Please refer to face124's thread about the Ftilt lock for specific percents.).

So that will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspot bair lock-->Ftilt lock(-->Ftilt lock)-->Force standup-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup--> (if possible FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup again, but that will most likely not work due to the opponents damage percent at this point.)Falcon punch/knee.


~A lock/0-Death on rob (The Nair-->footstool loop lock)

Also, here is the video+video tutorial of falcons infinite on rob: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkv6zazgGH4

I quote myself from further in this thread about said lock/0-death (as it stands now) on rob:

Alright, here's my report:

Even with DI+trying to roll away my opponent who played ROB couldnt escape the First hit Nair (abbreviation FHN)-->Footstool->FF-->FHN-->footstool--FF--FHN-->Footstool-->FF--FHN etc.

We tested only one serie of consecutive FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN, as it is incredibly hard to do, and one seems to be able to reposition one's self during the FF enough to make this an infinite.

It really looks like we have an infinite on rob, but its soo incredibly hard to do, that I dont know if it is practical to use.

But according to my testing, versus a IRL opponent, it cannot be escaped.
But maybe very accurate/good SDI could serve a problem, but I doubt it now I've tested it, as one can just follow the opponent+footstool anyway if they SDI the FHN, as you initiate a dash before you jump anyway. That is what I think, and what I am almost certain of.

In short: It really looks like we have a, incredibly hard to pull off, infinite on rob. (and maybe other characters, too). using this combo: FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN etc.

And it seems one can make this a 0-death if you just replace the FHN with a sweetknee when the opponent has enough damage on him/her.

(So it at the end it will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Sweet knee)

I will upload a video of this (as it stands now) infinite later today:).
~An idea about how to make the 0-death (as it stands now) on rob more practical

I quote myself again from further in this thread about how to make the 0-death (as it stands now) on rob more practical:

Last but not least, if we mix the goodness combo with the method used to infinite rob, we can speed up the process of the infinite (like: start with the goodness combo, and instead of finishing it with a falcon punch/knee, start the method of infiniting rob until he has enough damage on him to end with a sweet knee/Dair-->sweet knee).

As an infinite, which is already hard to pull of, that consists only (damage wise, as the footstool does no damage) of FHN's, is very impractical. And adding the goodness combo (which does more damage, with a little less trouble) before the infinite method, will make infiniting (as it stands now) rob, easier.:).


~More~

Alot of nice things can come out of the FHN-->footstool(-->FF).
The video shows some of them, but feel free to mess around with this yourself.


Here is a list of the combo's using the FHN-->footstool(-->FF) shown in the video:

FHN-->footstool-->Dair-->sweet knee

FHN-->footstool-->FF-->Bair lock-->FHN--footstool-->FF-->sweet knee

Please mess around with this yourself, too:)
 

Zeallyx

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Nice found this is sexy.
Does this only work on R.O.B?
I am not sure.
The opponent needs to be popped up by the first hit of the Nair, which is someting that doesnt happen to each character in a way we can footstool them.

And as Rob seems to have a 'special' tumbling animation after the footstool, that may be the only reason this works.

But with a little luck, this works on all floaties, and maybe even more characters.

In short: This needs more testing:).
 

Lionman

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the Nair cancel to foolstool looks interesting but i think this is escapable or really hard to land

Good find
 

Player-3

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lol
this reminds me of the big beckler combo
anyways,
i like this alot even though i never use first hit nair
 

thexsunrosered

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i've been trying to do this with Falcon for the longest time and only able to do it a few times (not consecutively of course lol), but i derived the idea from the knowledge that first hit nair sends opponents in the air and from this vid ( since i also main shiek) at 12 specifically, but really the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU&translated=1

i also think your lock will work on this character set as well
 

SuSa

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So how many times can you lock with the bair before it stops locking?

Have you tried to lock with a first hit nair or tipped uair?

If you can vary up the locks, you may be able to lock longer thus doing more damage and possibly making this an 0-death.
 

Zeallyx

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So how many times can you lock with the bair before it stops locking?

Have you tried to lock with a first hit nair or tipped uair?

If you can vary up the locks, you may be able to lock longer thus doing more damage and possibly making this an 0-death.
Please refer to my thread about the Bair lock for specific percentages.
And as mentioned in the OP:
When you only use non-sweetspot Bair locks in the goodness combo, you can probably do the goodness combo up to 4 times when you start when the opponent has 0% damage.

so it will look like:
FHN-->footstool-->FF-->non-sweetspot Bair lock-->forced standup ( x4 approx.) -->falcon punch/sweet knee.

And the non-sweetspot Bair lock is the lock that works up to when the opponent has around 50ish percent, meaning it still locks when falcon's other locking moves (flubbed Fair, Uair and Ftilt) wouldnt any more. (They lose their locking effect at a lower percent the non-sweetspotted Bair does).

And the first hit of falcon's Nair does not have a locking ability.
 

SuSa

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Nair > footstool > ff nair > footstool > ff nair > footstool

It doesn't have to lock, if it hits and props them up after they land from their footstool, you may be able to footstool them again by simply repeating the process.

Or would that not work (and if not, explain why)
 

Zeallyx

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Nair > footstool > ff nair > footstool > ff nair > footstool

It doesn't have to lock, if it hits and props them up after they land from their footstool, you may be able to footstool them again by simply repeating the process.

Or would that not work (and if not, explain why)
I tried that. And it did work.
But I have my doubts about it beeing fully inescapable that way, as we need to reposition ourselves while they are forced to standup, or else SDI + their DI during the tumbling can 'pile up' and cause them to escape (maybe).

The Bair lock part of the goodness combo prevents said '(S)DI pile up' as we can reposition ourselves as they are standing up due to the forced standup.

It could work though..but with brawl beeing brawl, and R.O.B having quite some control over himself in the air, and as he is a floaty..I dunno man..as far as I tried, it worked, but it is just..too out there for brawl. I just dont see it working without the Bair lock mixed into the combo due to the reason I mentioned..

I hope I'm wrong though.
 

SuSa

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Try it sometime.

Shrugging something off because it being "hard" or "perhaps not possible" is just stupid.

Because then, months later, some comes by and is all "lulz it works I tested and its great" and you feel stupid for not doing it for the past 5 months.

So since you tried and it worked, it may work ;) try to test it in a real situation if you can or get someone to help you test it (by SDI'ing and DI'ing out)

If you DO need to reposition yourself, depending on the %'s - you may be able to do 1 bair lock to give your time to reposition yourself.
 

Zeallyx

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Try it sometime.

Shrugging something off because it being "hard" or "perhaps not possible" is just stupid.

Because then, months later, some comes by and is all "lulz it works I tested and its great" and you feel stupid for not doing it for the past 5 months.

So since you tried and it worked, it may work ;) try to test it in a real situation if you can or get someone to help you test it (by SDI'ing and DI'ing out)

If you DO need to reposition yourself, depending on the %'s - you may be able to do 1 bair lock to give your time to reposition yourself.
I agree.
I will ask my IRL brawl buds to test it with me tommorrow.:)

And I didnt shrug it off, its just, brawl has let me down more than once before XD =P

And yes, maybe one Bair lock will suffice.:)
I'll see what comes out of my testing tommorrow.:)
I'll see if I can pull the goodness combo on other (floaty) characters, too.:) who knows =D.

I'll report back tommorrow, kind sirs :pimp:
 

Zeallyx

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Alright, here's my report:

Even with DI+trying to roll away my opponent who played ROB couldnt escape the First hit Nair (abbreviation FHN)-->Footstool->FF-->FHN-->footstool--FF--FHN-->Footstool-->FF--FHN etc.

We tested only one serie of consecutive FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN, as it is incredibly hard to do, and one seems to be able to reposition one's self during the FF enough to make this an infinite.

It really looks like we have an infinite on rob, but its soo incredibly hard to do, that I dont know if it is practical to use.

But according to my testing, versus a IRL opponent, it cannot be escaped.
But maybe very accurate/good SDI could serve a problem, but I doubt it now I've tested it, as one can just follow the opponent+footstool anyway if they SDI the FHN, as you initiate a dash before you jump anyway. That is what I think, and what I am almost certain of.

In short: It really looks like we have a, incredibly hard to pull off, infinite on rob. (and maybe other characters, too). using this combo: FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN etc.

And it seems one can make this a 0-death if you just replace the FHN with a sweetknee when the opponent has enough damage on him/her.

(So it at the end it will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Sweet knee)

I will upload a video of this (as it stands now) infinite later today:).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, One can mix one or two Ftilt locks into the goodness combo, but only near the beginning (when the opponent doesnt have alot of damage on him/her yet. Please refer to face124's thread about the Ftilt lock for specific percents.).

So that will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspot bair lock-->Ftilt lock(-->Ftilt lock)-->Force standup-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup--> (if possible FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup again, but that will most likely not work due to the opponents damage percent at this point.)Falcon punch/knee.

This is like a variation on the goodness combo.:).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last but not least, if we mix the goodness combo with the method used to infinite rob, we can speed up the process of the infinite (like: start with the goodness combo, and instead of finishing it with a falcon punch/knee, start the method of infiniting rob until he has enough damage on him to end with a sweet knee/Dair-->sweet knee).

As an infinite, which is already hard to pull of, that consists only (damage wise, as the footstool does no damage) of FHN's, is very impractical. And adding the goodness combo (which does more damage, with a little less trouble) before the infinite method, will make infiniting (as it stands now) rob, easier.:).
 

SuSa

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Very nice job Knee. :p

It seems everyones getting footstool infinites on ROB.... lmao...

However it is hard (as you say), how often were you able to successfully pull it off? You practiced it for less then a day... so if you consider if you practice it - that should make it far more viable to pull off.

Then you just have to worry about how your going to start it on ROB. FHN doesn't seem too easy to pull off since you have to hit at (what seems to be) the last possible moment.
 

Zeallyx

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Very nice job Knee. :p

It seems everyones getting footstool infinites on ROB.... lmao...

However it is hard (as you say), how often were you able to successfully pull it off? You practiced it for less then a day... so if you consider if you practice it - that should make it far more viable to pull off.

Then you just have to worry about how your going to start it on ROB. FHN doesn't seem too easy to pull off since you have to hit at (what seems to be) the last possible moment.
With practice, this infinite can be viable (as it stands now). especially if you mix it up with the goodness combo. (as in, godness combo-->infinite technique).

But it is still very hard to pull off. I am going to practice it today and I hope to get a video up of a worth mentioning lock-->ko tonight.:)

And you dont have to hit with the FHN at the last possible time, when you hit at approx the hight of falcons SH (but on your way down, so its probably a little lower) during the FF after the footstool, you'll have enough time to footstool rob in time.:).

And hitting with it isnt that much of a problem. The first hit can be SH'd+FF-->footstool-->the whole procedure of the lock.
You can mix in FHN's into your jab game, or even punish airdodges after a Dthrow for example.
In short: its not that hard to pull off at all imo.:).
 

Player-3

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Alright, here's my report:

Even with DI+trying to roll away my opponent who played ROB couldnt escape the First hit Nair (abbreviation FHN)-->Footstool->FF-->FHN-->footstool--FF--FHN-->Footstool-->FF--FHN etc.

We tested only one serie of consecutive FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN, as it is incredibly hard to do, and one seems to be able to reposition one's self during the FF enough to make this an infinite.

It really looks like we have an infinite on rob, but its soo incredibly hard to do, that I dont know if it is practical to use.

But according to my testing, versus a IRL opponent, it cannot be escaped.
But maybe very accurate/good SDI could serve a problem, but I doubt it now I've tested it, as one can just follow the opponent+footstool anyway if they SDI the FHN, as you initiate a dash before you jump anyway. That is what I think, and what I am almost certain of.

In short: It really looks like we have a, incredibly hard to pull off, infinite on rob. (and maybe other characters, too). using this combo: FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN etc.

And it seems one can make this a 0-death if you just replace the FHN with a sweetknee when the opponent has enough damage on him/her.

(So it at the end it will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Sweet knee)

I will upload a video of this (as it stands now) infinite later today:).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, One can mix one or two Ftilt locks into the goodness combo, but only near the beginning (when the opponent doesnt have alot of damage on him/her yet. Please refer to face124's thread about the Ftilt lock for specific percents.).

So that will look like:
FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspot bair lock-->Ftilt lock(-->Ftilt lock)-->Force standup-->FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup--> (if possible FHN-->Footstool-->FF-->Non-sweetspotted Bair lock-->forced standup again, but that will most likely not work due to the opponents damage percent at this point.)Falcon punch/knee.

This is like a variation on the goodness combo.:).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last but not least, if we mix the goodness combo with the method used to infinite rob, we can speed up the process of the infinite (like: start with the goodness combo, and instead of finishing it with a falcon punch/knee, start the method of infiniting rob until he has enough damage on him to end with a sweet knee/Dair-->sweet knee).

As an infinite, which is already hard to pull of, that consists only (damage wise, as the footstool does no damage) of FHN's, is very impractical. And adding the goodness combo (which does more damage, with a little less trouble) before the infinite method, will make infiniting (as it stands now) rob, easier.:).
With practice, this infinite can be viable (as it stands now). especially if you mix it up with the goodness combo. (as in, godness combo-->infinite technique).

But it is still very hard to pull off. I am going to practice it today and I hope to get a video up of a worth mentioning lock-->ko tonight.:)

And you dont have to hit with the FHN at the last possible time, when you hit at approx the hight of falcons SH (but on your way down, so its probably a little lower) during the FF after the footstool, you'll have enough time to footstool rob in time.:).

And hitting with it isnt that much of a problem. The first hit can be SH'd+FF-->footstool-->the whole procedure of the lock.
You can mix in FHN's into your jab game, or even punish airdodges after a Dthrow for example.
In short: its not that hard to pull off at all imo.:).
for anyone who says its hard

man up and get some tech skill

and very nice knee, nice find bro
 

thexsunrosered

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FHN doesn't seem too easy to pull off since you have to hit at (what seems to be) the last possible moment.
why do so many people on these boards find hitting with the first hit nair difficult? It auto cancels and comes out quick, so if you're having trouble landing it, try, on your descent (from SH or higher) to throw it out at about the time CF's feet reach the charcters head (on medium+ char), and a little closer than how you would space for an up air, but only barely. This way you learn the optimum spacing as well as when initiate it. After you learn those is the time i suggest moving to combo into jab->grab or just grab, but make sure you learn the maximum capabilites of the move instead of just FHN->jabgrab combo spam.


p.s. by "you" i didn't actually mean SuSa, just anyone who reads this -.-
 

Player-3

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why do so many people on these boards find hitting with the first hit nair difficult? It auto cancels and comes out quick, so if you're having trouble landing it, try, on your descent (from SH or higher) to throw it out at about the time CF's feet reach the charcters head (on medium+ char), and a little closer than how you would space for an up air, but only barely. This way you learn the optimum spacing as well as when initiate it. After you learn those is the time i suggest moving to combo into jab->grab or just grab, but make sure you learn the maximum capabilites of the move instead of just FHN->jabgrab combo spam.


p.s. by "you" i didn't actually mean SuSa, just anyone who reads this -.-
barlw players

no tech skill
end of story
 

Zeallyx

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why do so many people on these boards find hitting with the first hit nair difficult? It auto cancels and comes out quick, so if you're having trouble landing it, try, on your descent (from SH or higher) to throw it out at about the time CF's feet reach the charcters head (on medium+ char), and a little closer than how you would space for an up air, but only barely. This way you learn the optimum spacing as well as when initiate it. After you learn those is the time i suggest moving to combo into jab->grab or just grab, but make sure you learn the maximum capabilites of the move instead of just FHN->jabgrab combo spam.


p.s. by "you" i didn't actually mean SuSa, just anyone who reads this -.-

I never said it was hard to hit with the first hit of falcon's Nair.


barlw players

no tech skill
end of story
Speak for yourself man =P
 

LuLLo

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Nice find Knee, definitly gonna try this tonight if I get the time, I also will try and find some use for other characters as well, but I won't get any flashy results, since I'm not into the testing/discovering :).
And by the way, if this is practiced well and can be pulled off consistently on, say, maybe a quarter of the cast, this could really, really help Falcon's game. I'm getting excited again :p.
 

KRDsonic

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As an IC main, I can tell you that just because an infinite is hard doesn't make it non-viable. Just practice a ton and you should be fine. Glad to see that Falco has something else going for him now.
 

Zeallyx

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Nice find Knee, definitly gonna try this tonight if I get the time, I also will try and find some use for other characters as well, but I won't get any flashy results, since I'm not into the testing/discovering :).
And by the way, if this is practiced well and can be pulled off consistently on, say, maybe a quarter of the cast, this could really, really help Falcon's game. I'm getting excited again :p.
I am testing the infinite procedure that works on rob (as it stands now) o other characters, too:)
I hope it works on alot of characters ^_^


As an IC main, I can tell you that just because an infinite is hard doesn't make it non-viable. Just practice a ton and you should be fine. Glad to see that Falco has something else going for him now.
I agree. We just need to practice :pimp:
 

Zeallyx

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So just NAir Footstool NAir Footstool NAir Footstool etc?
I can send you a replay of it if you like:)

Than you could also make a gif out of it if you want =D (dont want to push you into doing work though, but the replay is for you to see how its done:)).
 

Wogrim

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I can send you a replay of it if you like:)

Than you could also make a gif out of it if you want =D (dont want to push you into doing work though, but the replay is for you to see how its done:)).
Sure send me the replay. Try to get as many in a row as you can, and end with a Knee or whatever kill move you can get. I might not be able to make a gif of it for several days (depends when I get it captured), since finals are next week. Also let me know what you want it to be called in the gif.
 

Zeallyx

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Sure send me the replay. Try to get as many in a row as you can, and end with a Knee or whatever kill move you can get. I might not be able to make a gif of it for several days (depends when I get it captured), since finals are next week. Also let me know what you want it to be called in the gif.
At the moment I only have a replay showing the First hit Nair-->footstool-->first hit Nair-->Footstool-->First hit nair (x4)

Just to give you an idea of how it works, and how it can KO :).

I'll send the replay right now. (I'll edit the confirmation of the replay having been send into this post when I have send it.).


Also, I havent decided on a name for it yet. And the replay I'm about to send also isnt the replay I would like you to make a gif from, the replay I'll send you now is just to show you what I mean, I'll soon create a replay where I show the infinite+KO on rob. (and thats the replay I would like you to make a gif from, if possible offcourse.).

And there is no hurry man.:).


EDIT: The replay has been send to you, wogrim.:).
 

tocador

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Can this be the first MU in wich falcon will have the adv :O? Or at least be even =X?

O, and Knee, have you discovered if this works in any other char? I mean, you said it should work on floaties, but have you tried it ><? Im not being bossy tho, i just want to know =X!

BTW, GREAT FIND, man, falcon boards say "Yesz" to you!
 

Zeallyx

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Location
Europe
Can this be the first MU in wich falcon will have the adv :O? Or at least be even =X?

O, and Knee, have you discovered if this works in any other char? I mean, you said it should work on floaties, but have you tried it ><? Im not being bossy tho, i just want to know =X!

BTW, GREAT FIND, man, falcon boards say "Yesz" to you!
Rob can still camp us to oblivion.

And I have not thoroughly tested if this works on other characters than rob yet.
I will test if this works on other characters thoroughly when I brawl with my IRL brawl buddies again. (that will be somewhere next week.).

I can already say, that this has a good chance to work on King DDD, peach, snake and possibly ganondorf. Nothing official yet though!! :)
 

YesISpeakChinese

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
80
Location
New York
hahaha did you get this from the shiek boards?
they have a f-tilt --> footstool --> b-air combo they discovered like 2 weeks ago
 
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