Yoshi v. Ike

Shiri · Jun 3, 2009

This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Ike matchup.

Poltergust · Jun 3, 2009

Heh. I saw you! You put Mr. Game & Watch earlier. =P

Uh... well. Chain-grab works well. If you can grab Ike out of his second jump he's dead if you release him over the ledge. You don't even need to edge-hog. This is actually pretty easy if you use Egg Toss while he recovers with Aether and at times even Quick Draw.

I hate his jab, though. It's too gooooooood... =(

Shiri · Jun 3, 2009

I...don't know what you're talking about Polt. :D

I </3 this matchup. Grabbing Aether and the second jump is cool, but forward air makes this match almost unwinnable for Yoshi, I think. His jab is the easy part; it's forward air that sucks.

Delta-cod · Jun 3, 2009

I have extreme trouble with Ike. I always seem to get hit by that sword of his. It's too big. And I can never avoid that jab. It just always gets me. I think I just fail against sword users.

I'm not really sure what to do against him. I've tried egg camping but his range makes it not as effective since he can get to me earlier. I usually eat a fair if I try to attack him in the air, so I just egg him. I think grabbing him to death is the way to go. Maybe gimping, too, if you're careful about his fair.

Yosheon · Jun 3, 2009

Pelting Ike with eggs is a good thing to do, and abusing our grabs are good since Ike can't counter grab-based attacks. Egg roll can cancel out Ike's quick draw, so that's a good attack to use if an Ike player like to charge up that attack. Ike has a great jab combo, and it's a little scary when he's jab cancelling. Try not to recovery low when an Ike player is edgeguarding because his d-tilt can spike us. We're vulnerable during our egg toss while recovering, and I don't know if we can withstand that hit during our flutter jump.

Fortunately, we can chaingrab him until he's off the stage. Like Poltergust said, we just have to grab him during his double jump and release him over the edge, and it's likely that he won't make it back. His worse stage is Rainbow Cruise, so that's the perfect counterpick stage against him.

Metatitan · Jun 3, 2009

LMAO you guys are describing the troubles wifikes give us! You will NEVER win up close. CAMP. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAMP! Yoshi can camp ike pretty effeciently (watch that vid of acey) and the only real problem we have with ike is his close range attacks and killing power. Id say 50:50 or 45:55 Ike's advantage, it's really not as bad as you people say it is (watch as i go peach for this matchup instead, LOL).

Also polt i wouldn't be stupid enough to try and cg an ike, waaaaay too risky.

bigman40 · Jun 3, 2009

Camp, CG, and run. Since his close range game does more, you don't need to be ANYWHERE up close. Don't be stupid. Pick a big stage, and camp them. Also, if you can time it, you can grab them out of Ether if they come up too high.

Airborne · Jun 3, 2009

if pirate ship is a legal cp in your region, ban it EVERY TIME against ike!!!! no one can beat infern on pirate ship, not even lain using ganon!!!

Metatitan · Jun 3, 2009

pirate ship should not be legal lol
unless ur in florida cuz florida is dumb

Poltergust · Jun 3, 2009

Uh... why shouldn't I chain-grab him, Metatitan? It's not even that hard, and it puts him at a MAJOR disadvantageous position over the edge.

And Scatz repeated what I said about grabbing their Aether. :laugh:

You don't need to time a grab, though. Just time an Egg Toss then go for the grab. If you grab them, they are one stock down. If they air-dodge, they just made their recovery a whole lot harder and may still get gimped anyways.

lain · Jun 4, 2009

Airborne said:
if pirate ship is a legal cp in your region, ban it EVERY TIME against ike!!!! no one can beat infern on pirate ship, not even lain using ganon!!!

LOL.

**** was stupid.

VSC.D-Torr · Jun 4, 2009

Metatitan said:
pirate ship should not be legal lol
unless ur in florida cuz florida is dumb

LOL

10chars

.Marik · Jun 4, 2009

Loooool Ike.

As I said before, he's quite predictable. His moves have extreme lag, and besides Jabs>Combo's, they are easily spotted and punished.

Sure, good Ikes may give us a slight hassle with their jabs and sudden FSmashes, but that's it.

Ike isn't that good. Learn how they play, and exploit them. End of story lol.

*Edit* Right... 60:40-65:35 our favour.

Deleted member · Jun 4, 2009

MarikYoshi said:
Loooool Ike.

As I said before, he's quite predictable. His moves have extreme lag, and besides Jabs>Combo's, they are easily spotted and punished.

Sure, good Ikes may give us a slight hassle with their jabs and sudden FSmashes, but that's it.

Ike isn't that good. Learn how they play, and exploit them. End of story lol.

*Edit* Right... 60:40-65:35 our favour.

Guess what, ur wrong.
Ever thought that yoshi doesnt beat everyone?
Ike is better than yoshi imo (arguable, but ike has better options, altho less)
Hiis fair is predictable, but u cant punish it.
Good ikes dont use Fsmash unless it cant be punished.

Shut up omg lol

Metatitan · Jun 4, 2009

MarikYoshi said:
Loooool Ike.

As I said before, he's quite predictable. His moves have extreme lag, and besides Jabs>Combo's, they are easily spotted and punished.

Sure, good Ikes may give us a slight hassle with their jabs and sudden FSmashes, but that's it.

Ike isn't that good. Learn how they play, and exploit them. End of story lol.

*Edit* Right... 60:40-65:35 our favour.

Stop being stupid. You can't apply the same bullcrap for each matchup discussion. Talk about an ike that knows the matchup. This is exactly the same problem we saw with the samus discussion and the jigglypuff discussion (until i had to haul my *** onto wifi and beat the living crap out of every yoshi main who disagreed with my opinion on 50:50; I haven't met one who thinks its yoshi's advantage). We have no answer to his Fair in mid range. You have to camp ike to stay alive. You get close, you die. Simple story. He kills too easily, beats us heavily up close, and overall doesn't have to work nearly as hard as we do. Ike is pretty fat so we will have killing issues, he of course will not. Remember that good ike's or players will not be predictable.

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

You don't need to kill him, though. Just force him to use Aether. D-smash and d-tilt work.

Deleted member · Jun 4, 2009

Poltergust said:
You don't need to kill him, though. Just force him to use Aether. D-smash and d-tilt work.

Uhh sometimes not rly tho. Its unsafe to get near a recovering ike, reverse aether spikes you from the stage lol its dumb.

Green_Ace · Jun 4, 2009

What burntsocks said.

While it seems tempting to gimp an Ike, it's really better if you play it safe and don't get too close...

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

...While you are on the ground?

In case you didn't catch it before, if you egg Ike during his Aether then grab him he can't recover back. At all. It's not that hard to do either since Yoshi's d-tilt and d-smash send Ike off at such an angle that he'll HAVE to use Aether to recover.

EDIT: Actually, I'm going to upload a match between me and Renegade that showcases what I'm talking about in case you guys don't understand what I mean. It's Wi-Fi, but I managed to do this offline, too. It's almost fool-proof.

Delta-cod · Jun 4, 2009

I was playing Sallas's Ike before and I tried to do the grab release and he was able to make it back to the stage. It was close, so maybe an edgehog is necessary, but I prefer not to try and edgehog Ikes.

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

OK... done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwxXV3XEag4

Added some annotations, too. ;o

Metatitan · Jun 4, 2009

Thats if they waste their double jump lol AND its wifi (although most ikes gets better online, but not recoverywise)

Delta-cod · Jun 4, 2009

Dang Polter, that Fsmash got you good. =P

But I swear Sal recovered, even with the DJ. I chewed him though, does that change anything? I also didn't egg him first, if that matters.

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

The fact that it's Wi-Fi has no bearing on what happened. He had to recover, and he had to use his double-jump to do so since I believe he had Tap Jump on (honestly, every character has Tap Jump on besides us...).

Besides, this was just a gimp when they were close. They'd definitely need to use their double-jump Aether if they are knocked farther away (horizontally).

EDIT: Delta, so you ate them up after they double-jumped, right? Just to make sure, you should have edge-hogged. Ike doesn't have the mobility to make it back to the stage safely without double-jumping out of a grab-release. If he just Aethers he won't make it.

Deleted member · Jun 4, 2009

Its because he aethered too high, high enough to get egged+grabbed, and he used his DJ to get out of the cg which is dumb.
I do confess, it looks handy, especially against ikes who dont see it coming, but the success rate probably wouldnt be too high if they aethered low so they have lots of super armor.

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

If they Aether low, the egg will still reach them. Then they'd have to Aether again. XP

Think of it like Marth Countering Ike's Aether. It will eventually get them. That's why they HAVE to use Quick Draw to recover, because Aether is a death sentence.

Delta-cod · Jun 4, 2009

Thanks Polter.

And Socks, even if the aether low, isn't it still possible to egg them for the grab? I think that Ike has to wait for the downward part of aether before being able to grab the ledge, meaning that we can lob an egg at the ledge and wait for him to aether into it, then grab. And if not, it should be possible to just edge-hog his low recovery anyways.

Edit: Polter beat me to it. >_>

Deleted member · Jun 4, 2009

Maybe, ill look into it
If youre right ill give you a hug, but itll still be even.

Poltergust · Jun 4, 2009

I would like a hug... =(

bigman40 · Jun 5, 2009

bigman40 said:
camp, Cg, And Run. Since His Close Range Game Does More, You Don't Need To Be Anywhere Up Close. Don't Be Stupid. Pick A Big Stage, And Camp Them. Also, If You Can Time It, You Can Grab Them Out Of Ether If They Come Up Too High.

Hmmm....me Thinkz This Bez Goodz Advicez!

.Marik · Jun 5, 2009

burntsocks said:
Guess what, ur wrong.
Ever thought that yoshi doesnt beat everyone?
Ike is better than yoshi imo (arguable, but ike has better options, altho less)
Hiis fair is predictable, but u cant punish it.
Good ikes dont use Fsmash unless it cant be punished.

Shut up omg lol

Metatitan said:
Stop being stupid. You can't apply the same bullcrap for each matchup discussion. Talk about an ike that knows the matchup. This is exactly the same problem we saw with the samus discussion and the jigglypuff discussion (until i had to haul my *** onto wifi and beat the living crap out of every yoshi main who disagreed with my opinion on 50:50; I haven't met one who thinks its yoshi's advantage). We have no answer to his Fair in mid range. You have to camp ike to stay alive. You get close, you die. Simple story. He kills too easily, beats us heavily up close, and overall doesn't have to work nearly as hard as we do. Ike is pretty fat so we will have killing issues, he of course will not. Remember that good ike's or players will not be predictable.

Allright, allright. :dizzy:

My brain was kind of dead yesterday, and upon reading your posts... I was probably wrong. Ike is slow...

He does kill early, and Jabs are pretty scary. Maybe 50:50? FSmash can be shielded, but Ike can follow up Jabs? It doesn't completely **** Yoshi no questions asked.

We both have our huge disadvantages, lol. I know Yoshi isn't that great, but I have yet to play a good Ike, maybe I shouldn't have made assumptions.

And yeah Ike is insane in terms of killing damage, 60% is dangerous for us.

F*ck...

And I don't do that for every matchup discussion, only ones I think Yoshi will definetly win in. (i.e. Ganondorf, not so much Ike anymore...)

Well, ok. Can you people stop biting my head off now?

bigman40 · Jun 5, 2009

MarikYoshi said:
maybe I shouldn't have made assumptions.

Best stuff I've heard on SWF all day.

.Marik · Jun 5, 2009

bigman40 said:
Best stuff I've heard on SWF all day.

Yeah yeah. >_>

Not really assumptions as it is not having played a good Ike I haven't ***** in every single d@mn Tournament before.

Can we drop this now lol?

Poltergust · Jun 5, 2009

So... about that gimping technique... how well does it work for you guys?

.Marik · Jun 5, 2009

I still think it's 50:50 or in our favour.

Airborne · Jun 6, 2009

well just like playing bowyer's fox at the mw stuff on the 20th, im hoping to get some games in with either infern, renegade, or kirk (if kirk will be there) and ill be sure to save and upload

Deleted member · Jun 6, 2009

Poltergust said:
So... about that gimping technique... how well does it work for you guys?

Unfortunately, ike gets his DJ back when u egg his aether. I tested.
Also, if he does it low, at most percents the eggs wont knock him high enough to be grabbed, or too high.

Its nice but doesnt kill.

Teh Future · Jun 6, 2009

lol yoshi boards are terrible, just dont blindly run into his BS kill moves and youre set

Chaco · Jun 6, 2009

Terrible eh?

Teh Future · Jun 6, 2009

Poltergust said:
If you can grab Ike out of his second jump he's dead if you release him over the ledge. You don't even need to edge-hog.

Shiri said:
forward air makes this match almost unwinnable for Yoshi

burntsocks said:
Hiis fair is predictable, but u cant punish it.

Chaco said:
Terrible eh?

Thats from just the first page. Im not trolling, just making observatsions LOL

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