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Yoshi v. Ganondorf
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
Poltergust
Smash Master
Well, this match-up is obviously in Yoshi's advantage, but I'm not sure by how much.
Uh, maybe we should start talking about how we fight Ganondorf without 0-deathing him. I have no idea what to say since I always do just that, though.
Uh, maybe we should start talking about how we fight Ganondorf without 0-deathing him. I have no idea what to say since I always do just that, though.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Easy CG to Fair x3
done deal
sorry for referring to this but that is the whole match up
done deal
sorry for referring to this but that is the whole match up
Poltergust
Smash Master
Well, to give Ganondorf some credit, he's not as screwed over as Squirtle since he has better KO moves and a harder-to-pull-off GRS, but it's still really bad.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Um, what's a GRS? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. >.>''
As for the CG > Spike, I have trouble landing the fair sometimes. Do you have to be right on the edge or a bit in front of it when you try for it? Same goes for Squirtle and MK.
But, off the topic of the CG, I don't think this match up is too bad for Ganondorf. He can do some damage with his stomp and his uair is decent. I'm pretty sure Egg Camping is effective since he's tall and moves pretty slow. I don't think gimping him is too hard either, as long as you watch out for the uair or the ganoncide if they're ahead.
As for the CG > Spike, I have trouble landing the fair sometimes. Do you have to be right on the edge or a bit in front of it when you try for it? Same goes for Squirtle and MK.
But, off the topic of the CG, I don't think this match up is too bad for Ganondorf. He can do some damage with his stomp and his uair is decent. I'm pretty sure Egg Camping is effective since he's tall and moves pretty slow. I don't think gimping him is too hard either, as long as you watch out for the uair or the ganoncide if they're ahead.
Poltergust
Smash Master
GRS = Grab-Release Spike. You don't have to position yourself in any special way for Ganondorf. Just chain-grab him to the edge and spike him.
I agree with your last paragraph, though. That's why he is a little harder than Squirtle, but still kind of pathetic when it comes to the chain-grab.
I agree with your last paragraph, though. That's why he is a little harder than Squirtle, but still kind of pathetic when it comes to the chain-grab.
Metatitan
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure cg to spike doesn't work anymore, and even if it did I'd say 30:70 yoshi. First off if you can't cg to spike him (he'd probly take you to brinstar or norfair to get rid of this), you are most likely at a 60:40 advantage. Ganon is fat. We are fat. Ganon is fatter and kills much much easier. So assumed the cg to spike still works on him (scatty can u do some frame testing?) I'd easily say 30:70 yoshi's advantage, BUT if it doesn't, 40:60. You WILL have killing troubles, he WILL not, you just happen to be lucky enough to **** him in many other ways (camping, comboing etc.).
Can we get some ganons in here? Kosk? Noob? Ray Kalm? Anyone?
Can we get some ganons in here? Kosk? Noob? Ray Kalm? Anyone?
Metatitan
Smash Master
Quiet you, I got the foxes here didn't I?Sure, just post in their matchup threads instead of making individual threads about it.
**cough**
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I still don't think we have problems killing. He shouldn't be hard to gimp, and even without the spike, the CG still works. That's easy damage and it puts Ganon off the ledge, which is not a good place for him and gives us an opportunity to gimp him. And it shouldn't be hard to grab him, either.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
After a certain % ( I think 50) if he up-B's you you should be able to nair/uair him straight from it.
IIRC you guys have a grab release CG, Ganon is pretty easy to grab, abuse this.
Bait and punish and get Ganon off stage...
65:35 Yoshi IMO.
\ex Ganon secondary
IIRC you guys have a grab release CG, Ganon is pretty easy to grab, abuse this.
Bait and punish and get Ganon off stage...
65:35 Yoshi IMO.
\ex Ganon secondary
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
I've UAired to counter Yoshi's spike several times, this was online though, so it might not be possible offline.
Other than that, Ganon has a tough time dealing with Yoshi's projectile. We're not use to powershielding projectiles that don't come straight towards you.
Yoshi's heavy, fast, and all his aerials/tilts come out before anything Ganon has. We'll be forced to roll away after direct powershields with most of your close-combat moves. Ganon can't directly come in to land a hit, we'll need to mindgame you into them. Also, Yoshi's weight could protect him from some of Ganon's early kills.
That's all I got.
85:15 if the chaingrab > spike is true. 70:30 if it isn't.
Other than that, Ganon has a tough time dealing with Yoshi's projectile. We're not use to powershielding projectiles that don't come straight towards you.
Yoshi's heavy, fast, and all his aerials/tilts come out before anything Ganon has. We'll be forced to roll away after direct powershields with most of your close-combat moves. Ganon can't directly come in to land a hit, we'll need to mindgame you into them. Also, Yoshi's weight could protect him from some of Ganon's early kills.
That's all I got.
85:15 if the chaingrab > spike is true. 70:30 if it isn't.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Its true my friend CG to spike is guaranteed
Metatitan
Smash Master
^
Can we get some frame data before saying stuff like that? It's been proven that it does not work on falco or mk, whats to stop it from not working on ganon?
Can we get some frame data before saying stuff like that? It's been proven that it does not work on falco or mk, whats to stop it from not working on ganon?
SOVAman
Smash Hero
How bout you try it And see that you can do it guaranteed
If it works do it. If it doesn't don't common sense and for me and others it works. Frame data is nice but is unnecessary. Something works or it doesn't we are all good enough players to figure this out without frame data
Metatitan
Smash Master
^
I have tried it and they have up aired me out of it every single time. I really don't think it works.
I have tried it and they have up aired me out of it every single time. I really don't think it works.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
It doesn't work on MK? I swear I've done it inescapably if you get the final release a bit before the ledge. And it was on a player that, when released from the very edge, would always dodge the spike.
And even if the spike isn't guaranteed, it still puts Ganon in a bad spot. Maybe a SH Dair to gimp him or something. Or you can throw him off the edge. Grabbing is still excellent on Ganon.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Then don't do it like I said. On all the Ganons I have played it worked on so I am going to keep doing it. If it doesn't work for you then don't
Metatitan
Smash Master
MK's airdodge isn't what lets him escape, its shuttle loop.
bigman40
Smash Master
There's your answer. They just need to move backwards, and then Uair us away.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Does the egg lay put Ganon in a bad position or is it not worth it?
TP
Smash Master
This is one of Ganon's 4 unwinnable matchups, in my opinion. Ganon has NOTHING going for him in this matchup except Choke>Ftilt for kills. Ganon can't win on the ground because of the chaingrab, he can't stay far away because the eggs, and he can't win in the air because you guys get to choose when you want super armor and your mobility in the air shuts Ganon down. Ganon can't gimp you, which is one of his main ways of getting kills. I counterpick away from Ganon as soon as I see my opponent using Yoshi. I find Yoshi a harder opponent that Falco.
That of Sir 0rion is just a significantly better player than me, or Yoshi benefits hugely from wifi.
That of Sir 0rion is just a significantly better player than me, or Yoshi benefits hugely from wifi.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Yoshi generally gets ***** harder than any other character on wifi; although there are exceptions. Sir Orion is a wifi player so it really doesn't bother him. Don't use wifi to entirely judge a matchup and say its unwinnable.
bigman40
Smash Master
Not even close. Yoshi gets hurt badly in wifi that isn't green.
TP
Smash Master
Have you guys tried powershielding eggs in wifi? Keep in mind that if you DON'T powershield, you can't avoid the dash grab that always follows it.
bigman40
Smash Master
You can cause it's really predictable since most Yoshis believe it as a combo (which is does work sometimes). The eggs can just be dodged itself.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Scatz, I'd still like to see some frame data. I know Ganondorf's u-air is fast, but I'm not sure if it comes out fast enough to beat the spike. The spike has almost always worked for me and as long as I keep nailing it I'll keep on doing it.
bigman40
Smash Master
it's not the fact that Uair comes out faster. Ganon doesn't recover from lag until our Fair comes out, and I've only gotten the Fair to NICK ganon during the frame data testing (and this is where Ganon isn't moving at all). so if he does this, then he just needs to move back and Uair to avoid the spike.
You CANNOT CG-release to fair spike Ganon, he can bring out the uair before the fair spike hits. However, you can CG-release to an egglay, but this won't actually kill him, he can break out fast enough to up-b to the stage. I'm also not too sure we have a gauranteed up smash out of a grab release. The Ganon I play is able to shield before the attack hits him. Actually he gets a power shield from it, making me eat his bigass purple boot.
On our end, we really REALLY have to look out for Ganon tech chasing his choke holds. He can also chain together his dairs for massive damage. His spike has a deceptively large hitbox, reaching all the way up to his head, and it can knock us out of our double jump.
At higher percentages his short hop down b can be used as a surprise move with high knockback. When he hits the ground it also has a "shockwave" type effect that hits a pretty large area with decent knockback.
Yes he is slow, but if he gets any sort of momentum going, he will get an easy 80%+ damage making anything he hits you with next an almost gauranteed ko. I'd say 65-35 Yoshi's favor.
On our end, we really REALLY have to look out for Ganon tech chasing his choke holds. He can also chain together his dairs for massive damage. His spike has a deceptively large hitbox, reaching all the way up to his head, and it can knock us out of our double jump.
At higher percentages his short hop down b can be used as a surprise move with high knockback. When he hits the ground it also has a "shockwave" type effect that hits a pretty large area with decent knockback.
Yes he is slow, but if he gets any sort of momentum going, he will get an easy 80%+ damage making anything he hits you with next an almost gauranteed ko. I'd say 65-35 Yoshi's favor.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Its like 65:35 yoshi..
Ganon punishes WAY too hard. Spamming grabs hoping to get a 0-death wont work at all. Play super patient and safe, always keep enough distance to avoid side b and down tilt.
Dont go for dumb uairs, he can down b and it ***** lol.
Ganon punishes WAY too hard. Spamming grabs hoping to get a 0-death wont work at all. Play super patient and safe, always keep enough distance to avoid side b and down tilt.
Dont go for dumb uairs, he can down b and it ***** lol.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Yes, down-B has like a stupid amount of priority in the air. Or maybe it's just fast, I don't know...
It kills WAY too early, though. That's why I just wait on the ground most of the time and Egg Toss them when they are far and up-smash/pivot-grab when they get close.
It kills WAY too early, though. That's why I just wait on the ground most of the time and Egg Toss them when they are far and up-smash/pivot-grab when they get close.
D
Deleted member
Guest
This is commonly known as being predictable. Synonyms: Bad, ur gonna get neutral bd
Heres ganons solution: Powershield, walk, down tilt. Yoshi cant dooo anything yeey
fonzi21
Smash Ace
Uair definitely keeps you from getting CG'ed to spiked. the Upsmash can be powershielded every time easily. allowing a simple Dair combo punish. which means about 60-70% to Yoshi. DownB ***** Yoshi's aerials, and is a great way to get back to the stage for us. Very laggy but if you get hit by it. it kills early. Chain choking can allow easy combo's and percent. Egg spam really isn't a concern because Yoshi winds up to throw the egg (slow) so it is simply powershielded every time or air dodged. Yoshi can shield pressure, but we can easily punish. if you do not space properly, or if you just throw out attacks downB will punish hard on your lag. With good DI Ganon can live close to 200+ from Yoshi, and can kill Yoshi in early 120's. Yoshi has slow smashes so they can easily be avoided. Ganon's will try to wait and punish your mistakes, avoid the DownB and be careful when recovering. The Uair tipman can ruin your second jump if timed correctly, Other then eggs Yoshi really doesn't have many gimping options so Ganon's don't have to much to worry about offstage. Our Uair is good for spacing and mind games leading into other options when Autocanceled. Play smart, and avoid punishable moves, and you should have the upper hand.
I would say it's closer to 60:40 in Yoshi's Favor.
I would say it's closer to 60:40 in Yoshi's Favor.
fonzi21
Smash Ace
well like I said his smashes are easily avoidable, and he doesnt have much else to finish that early but his Uair, and DownB wins. I can survive to high 180-200 every life.
B!squick
Smash Master
Ganon has a blind spot above him. Exploit it and win.
Metatitan
Smash Master
With a cg release to up smash? Good luck with that one.
