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Peach Uair String - Time to change Peach's metagame! (Work in progress)

Excel_Zero

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~Peach Uair String~
Theory

It's just float canceling Uairs repeatedly for racking up damage. For the people who are not familiar with the term 'Float Cancel', it basically means doing an Uair while floating as close to the ground as possible, and as soon as you connect with the move's hitbox, you let go of your float or fastfall (I'm not sure if fastfalling makes it quicker in Brawl... I know it did in Melee), and once you touch the floor, you start your float again and repeat.

Yesterday I made a string of 5 or 6 float canceled uairs to a Sheik player, and it didn't seem he could get out of it at all. Sheik is very comboable so that's why it probably worked that way. The idea is to stale uair as much as you can so it's knockback gets greatly reduced OR start it at a low damage so it gets stalled in the process.

This technique not only racks up damage really fast, but also let's you keep your other killing moves (like fair) undecayed. Also, you can finish it with a deadly move like Utilt, Upsmash (it might be for the kill on some characters... this needs to be researched since it could be UBER if it works) or Nair/Bair out of the stage for edgeguard. It also looks flashy as Melee. :)

It seems to be matchup dependent, meaning that only the heavy/fastfaller characters will be getting the most out of this. Of course, if they get out using airdodge (meaning they are at a high damage), you could implement some punish out of their airdodge, so if they get out you can still punish them with a float canceled nair or something fast like that.

There are still many unknown factors as:
- Is it really inescapable or is it escapable with DI/Smash DI mixed with doublejumps/airdodges/footstools?
- Which characters are vulnerable to this? And till what damages approximately it works with each of them?
- How stale does the Uair needs to be for this to be most effective?
- Which are the most useful setups for this to work?

Well Peach players, I need your help on this. I'm counting on you guys to help me with this research, since it could help improve Peach's game VASTLY (at least at certain matchups).



How To Practice

First of all, do NOT practice this on Training Mode (unless you're doing Step 1 and Step 2). Remember that in training the moves do not receive any damage nor knockback decay, so if you string two or three together means you were lucky enough. By the way, when I tried it, the game counted it as a two hit combo which means they theoretically can't get out. That's pretty nice ain't it? ;)

I'm going to give you steps for you to follow. It's pretty hard, but it's totally possible (and easier than the Bair lock IMO). Good luck.

Step 1: Practicing Empty Float Canceled Uair

- You might want to start doing Uairs on the ground without hitting anything. But remember not to do it too fast, or the hitbox won't come out at all. Just try doing it as fast as you can GETTING the hitbox of the attack out.


Step 2: Hitting With Float Canceled Uair

- After that, you should practice the timing of the float canceled uair while actually HITTING something. Remember that if you hit something you will stay a few frames frozen while the hitbox connects, so the timing will be very different than the one you got used to in the first step. You may want to practice with Luigi's Mansion's pillars to start off, but also make sure to practice it against a character, because hitting pillars makes you lag a bit more than hitting a character (I think).


Step 3: Practicing Against CPUs on Versus Mode

- This is when you need to apply everything you learned in the above steps and actually perform the actual technique. I suggest you start your practice against Fox, so you can use the video posted below as reference. After that, try it with different characters and share your results here on this thread.


Step 4: Executing the Technique Against Human Players

- This is, obviously, the hardest part of all. This is where you actually put your training to the test and perform the Uair String on a human player. You need to set it up, so it won't be nearly as easy as doing it to a CPU controlled character. We need a lot of research done on this technique so practice against it against humans and share all of what you learn. Good luck, you'll need it.



Video Demonstration

Here's a video of me doing the Uair string to a CPU Fox. If you notice, I only used uair ONCE before going into the string. Anyways, enjoy... and sorry for the bad quality... =\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zZMgxwqvI8

Notice all the damage the Fox receives from Uairs only. This is too good. :D



This post will be edited once new information about this comes in.
 

TLMSheikant

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0.0 too good. It seems to me like a true combo. Great job excel_cerro.

PS- Metaknight es tu main no t hagas XD.
 

Bitter Romantic

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The game counts certain strings as combos, so I wouldn't judge anything off what the game says.

That being said, if the knockback is low enough to where you can follow their DI [because they should], this could be an amazing string/possible combo

I would like to ask for some frame data on this, though, to see how many frames they have until they can escape :O

8 frame startup, 9 frame landing [or does it autocancel there? I don't think so o.o], + jump/autofloat ~5/6[?] > repeat

does uair have enough hitstun? I can see this working on characters like ganon with slow options
blah blah blah

either way, if this is at least a semi-reliable way to rack up damage, super sexy
looks like I need to get to practice :O
 

Cia

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Excel - you are amazing. it's funny that you would post this today.

i was practicing against a CPU snake today. and i was able to string what i believe was '4 legitmate peach Uairs' (from like.. 20 percent). after that, i just Uair'd their obvious airdodges.. lol

anyways, i'll have my cousin's wii for a few days and i'll try and do some testing. i also have a capture card, so if i get any results, i'll post up.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Awesome guide, but just to let you know, it's not called float cancelling..its just an autocancel, as it has nothing to do with your float animation. Other characters do the same thing without a float :) Float cancelling was only in Melee. Sweet stuff though.
 

Cia

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i've been testing for a little while. (against various lv 9 cpus) i chose level 9 because they're more likely to give a frame perfect response. so far, it's not looking too good. but i'm just one person. i'll make a quick video of my results
 

RATED

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The game counts certain strings as combos, so I wouldn't judge anything off what the game says.

That being said, if the knockback is low enough to where you can follow their DI [because they should], this could be an amazing string/possible combo

I would like to ask for some frame data on this, though, to see how many frames they have until they can escape :O

8 frame startup, 9 frame landing [or does it autocancel there? I don't think so o.o], + jump/autofloat ~5/6[?] > repeat

does uair have enough hitstun? I can see this working on characters like ganon with slow options
blah blah blah

either way, if this is at least a semi-reliable way to rack up damage, super sexy
looks like I need to get to practice :O
now that u mention that, this can be helpful against king ddd.
 

Cia

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now that u mention that, this can be helpful against king ddd.
although i have been testing it on dedede to see if it works, if peach is given a free hit to Dedede, (while he can be combo'd) it should ALWAYS be Dair. Dair will take you farther than any other move.

and i'm going to say that the most you will legitimately get out of Uair strings is 3 tops. and ONLY under the most extreme conditions. the computer was able to DI an unstaled Uair at 0% making it so that they just slid across the ground. Dedede can Nair out, Sheik can Nair out, Falco can Dair out. it's such a pain. as far as super combos go, i'm pretty happy sticking with Dair > Dair > Uair > Utilt.

oh and you have an opponent that likes to wait before airdodging, you can throw them out with low float Uair > Uair> Full hop Uair > Uair. i've pulled this off a few times. your opponent may have some time to airdodge bet. the 3rd-4th Uair, but this will happen a lot easier than 4 low Float Uairs.
 

Metatitan

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Well looks like this doesn't work =/. As far as Uair goes, I try to remember to always end my Dair comboes with it because I rarely use the move, it's a nice combo ender that deals a nice amount of damage, and will help keep my Nair or Fair a tad more fresh.
 

Moocowalex

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well, I managed to do some pretty cool stuff I thought i would never be able to do

and I started messing around with the turnip free-pull (I had forgotten what buttons to input to make it work), and actually made it work on accident. I then proceeded to start at 1/4th speed and work my way up to full speed, and can now do it about half the time, with practice. :)
 

Bitter Romantic

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Vanz: figured as much.

Edrees: I don't think it's autocanceling :O
since you're stopping the move by landing by canceling your float, I think it's more appropriate to call it float cancel [different from melee's float cancel, which canceled all lag? or something like that?]
float cancel (brawl): canceling out a move by landing during it's animation [done by letting go of grounded float during an attack]?

Though, more testing on this would be nice :O
like, find out what characters you CAN do this on [those w/o quick aerials or those who's aerials won't hit/trade hits (I'm thinking something like Ike's bair, quick, but probably won't hit her?)], and at what percents. A more conclusive test would also check the different levels of decay you need [will having uair decayed twice allow for more uair strings? what %s does it stay effective/what % does it start, all assuming for characters who can't get out, etc, etc]

characters off the top of my head I think should get out regardless of decay/etc:
any character with frame 2/3 [more?] aerial that will hit Peach or trade hits,
like many nairs (notably sex kicks), ex. Sheik, MK, Wario, DDD, Jiggs, Mario bros/Yoshi, etc


Think of the research done of Sheik's ftilt lock [they have amazing research done on moves, the decay, and its effectiveness at %'s/decay]/Pika's chaingrabs [pikas also have amazing research as well, particularly with his grabs/decay], except, not as useful/all around effective, but still nice/useful/an option to have.

basically, the questions Excel asked when he posted this thread.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Vanz: figured as much.

Edrees: I don't think it's autocanceling :O
since you're stopping the move by landing by canceling your float, I think it's more appropriate to call it float cancel [different from melee's float cancel, which canceled all lag? or something like that?]
float cancel (brawl): canceling out a move by landing during it's animation [done by letting go of grounded float during an attack]?

Though, more testing on this would be nice :O
like, find out what characters you CAN do this on [those w/o quick aerials or those who's aerials won't hit/trade hits (I'm thinking something like Ike's bair, quick, but probably won't hit her?)], and at what percents. A more conclusive test would also check the different levels of decay you need [will having uair decayed twice allow for more uair strings? what %s does it stay effective/what % does it start, all assuming for characters who can't get out, etc, etc]

characters off the top of my head I think should get out regardless of decay/etc:
any character with frame 2/3 [more?] aerial that will hit Peach or trade hits,
like many nairs (notably sex kicks), ex. Sheik, MK, Wario, DDD, Jiggs, Mario bros/Yoshi, etc


Think of the research done of Sheik's ftilt lock [they have amazing research done on moves, the decay, and its effectiveness at %'s/decay]/Pika's chaingrabs [pikas also have amazing research as well, particularly with his grabs/decay], except, not as useful/all around effective, but still nice/useful/an option to have.

basically, the questions Excel asked when he posted this thread.
You can stop Peach's aerials by landing by canceling your short hop instead, you don't have to float to cancel your moves like that - even though most of the time, Peach's cancel it after their float. In Melee you had to specifically float to gain the desired effect.

I don't really care what it's called, but calling it the same name as something from Melee which is completely different is going to yield confusion :)
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I love Uair. It's a great damage racker/juggler and a very nice surprise KO move too

This looks very interesting although sadly I reckon it'll probably be escapable just like everything is in this game

I'll have a go at this sometime though. This could be a really nice surprise for finishing off D Throws at percents where the enemy won't go far but has too much damage to be say chaingrabbed or F Tilted
 

_Keno_

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Vanz: figured as much.

Edrees: I don't think it's autocanceling :O
since you're stopping the move by landing by canceling your float, I think it's more appropriate to call it float cancel [different from melee's float cancel, which canceled all lag? or something like that?]
float cancel (brawl): canceling out a move by landing during it's animation [done by letting go of grounded float during an attack]?
You don't have to be floating for it to cancel lag, people just float because it is a much faster way to get off the ground, do a move, then land. :p

So yeah, its just plain auto-canceling.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Yeah, it looks like its neither auto cancelling nor float cancelling. Sorry for being so picky and technical with the name, you can call it Amazing Super Cool Trick (ASCT) for all I care, I was just worried it could confuse people if we call it by something that many will think means something else :)
 

mountain_tiger

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This'll be awesome if it works. I reckon if you stale Uair a fair bit, it could feasibly work. I doubt it'll affect light or floaty characters much, but hey, it's worth a try, isn't it?
 

jmo brawler

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A lot of you probably dread this stage but what do you guys think about norfair for the uair string?

Ive tried it out myself & I think it works out pretty well with the multiple ledges.yea its a risky stage and all with the lava & you wouldnt want to play characters with killer dairs like link for example, or g&w with his nair ****. but with a few exceptions,I think if your not too high in the air & you stay below the ledges underneath your opponent@ norfair multiple uairs can be done successfully.
 

Meru.

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This thread does not get the attention it deserves, so I'm bumping this.

Seriously, we should get more into this.
I'm also going to expirement, but at the moment I can't test this on offline opponents, so don't expect too much from me. I'll try though!
 
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