Mission Complete! A guide on Fox in brawl+ UPDATED 10/20/09

(Thanks to leafgreen for contributing.)

Hey guys, Yes! here, and it’s time to educate the world about our friend Fox. We all know he’s top tier by now, and he’s more than capable of winning tournaments. This guide will cover Pros and Cons of Fox, an analysis of each of his moves, possible combos and my general strategy for each move, and match ups (as time goes on). This is meant to give the new players a crash course on Fox, and maybe for the veterans to brush up on some basics. Keep in mind that the Possible Combos section of each move is just to get you all thinking; there are probably many more options to do with Fox. Also keep in mind that the analysis of these moves are in my opinion only. At any point someone feels that I made an error in this guide, feel free to let me know. Constructive feedback is preferred.


PROS:
Fast
Good Projectile
Can stop camping with Shine
Amazing combos and great KO power
Great punishes
Few laggy moves.
Can combo nicely as a Fast faller.

CONS:
Poor recovery and can be easily gimped
Poor range
Fast faller so gets combo’d easily
Only safe edge guard he has is shine spiking because of his fast falling speed and poor recovery.

Fox Moves
A moves

A
A quick and simple jab which can supposedly pop the opponent up. Also good for interrupting momentum and a quick poke.

Usefulness: 7/10


AA
Fox does a quick one two punch. I wouldn’t recommend using this.

Usefulness: 0/10

Possible Combos: none

AAA
This can rack on damage quickly. It’s good to use after a Nair at low percents. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe it’s safe on most shields so it’s hard to be punished.

Usefulness: 7/10

Possible combos: none

Forward tilt
It’s a good poke, and is safe on block, but Fox has better options. I’d seldom use this move.

Usefulness: 5/10

Possible combos: none

Down tilt
I recently found this move to be great with edgeguarding, since there is no auto sweet spotting.

Usefulness: 8/10

Possible combos: Dtilt -> Uair

Up tilt
This move is one of Fox’s best moves along with Dair. It leads to multiple combos AND can kill at higher percents. Use this move appropriately.

Usefulness: 10/10
Possible Combos: Utilt ->Dair ->Utilt ->Dair, etc.
Utilt -> Bair
Utilt ->Fair
Utilt ->Uair
Utilt ->Usmash (low percents)

Dash Attack
Good for closing in, can combo nicely as well.

Usefulness: 8/10

Possible combos: Dash Attack -> utilt (see utilt combos) || dash attack -> dash attack *if not di'd properly* etc

Forward Smash
This is a good move for punishing and edgeguarding, but not much else. Use dash cancel pivot fsmash for mindgames.

Usefulness: 5/10

Possible Combos: None

Down Smash
This has great horizontal knockback to get opponents offstage. It can be done right after dair for a KO near the edge of the stage.

Possible Combos: None

Usefulness: 7/10

Up Smash
This is another one of Fox’s best moves. His best kill move and can be used in many combos for the kill or to rack up damage. It’s a very fast move and has a very high risk/reward ratio.

Usefulness: 12/10

Possible combos: *on fast fallers* Usmash  Usmash at lower percents
Not too sure about others, I’ve never tried.

Neutral Air
An excellent move that has high priority. Good for approaching with and can start combos.

Usefulness: 9/10

Possible combos: Nair ->Nair ->Nair, etc *at lower percents* || Nair ->Utilt -> (see utilt combos)
Nair ->usmash (see usmash combos) || Nair -> AAA *at lower percents*
Nair ->Shine (see shine combos) *at lower percents*
Weak Nair ->Running Usmash *at higher percents for the kill*

Up Air
A good combo starter/finisher. Can lead to ceiling KO’s off of combos.

Usefulness: 7/10

Possible combos: Uair -> Uair This works at medium percents like 50-70%, and works especially well on platform stages.


Forward Air
A highly damaging aerial if not DI’d properly by your opponent. A good combo finisher from Utilt, and can be the cause of ceiling KOs. Also useful in recovery in conjunction with double jump (rising fair).

Usefulness: 9/10

Possible Combos: Fair -> Fair (On platform stages.)

Back Air
This move has moderate KO power and can finish a utilt combo.
Usefulness: 8/10

Possible Combos:
*at lower percents* Bair ->Dsmash || Bair ->Utilt (see utilt combos)
*after a utilt at around 30-40%* Bair -> (if opponent doesn't tech) Running Up Smash

Down Air
This is one of Fox’s best moves. It can lead to many high damaging combos and KOs.

Usefulness: 10/10

Possible combos:
Dair ->Utilt (see utilt combos) || Dair ->Dsmash
Dair ->grab (see grab combos) || Dair -> Shine (see shine combos)

B Moves

Neutral B
Fox’s laser is probably my best friend. I tend to be a campy player so I use this to rack up damage and force an approach to take advantage of an opening. Make use of his short hop double laser (SHDL).

Usefulness: 12/10

Possible combos: …Laser ->Laser -> Laser…It’s like an infinite!

Side B
Fox’s illusion. It is one of fox’s recovery options, meant specifically for recovery. Never attack with this move since it has low priority and doesn’t combo into anything. If timed correctly by pushing B again, the distance of fox's illusion either shortens or extends.

Usefulness 10/10 (FOR RECOVERY ONLY)

Down B
Fox’s shine. Good for reflecting projectiles. It can also be used to “spike” characters that have poor recoveries (aka shine spikes). Shine stalling however, is an amazing mind game which allows your opponent to get impatient and make a mistake for you to punish.

Fox's shine now comes out on frame one. I love this new change because it is a great "gtfo combobreaker" move. Example: Fox is being juggled. DI the juggle the best way possible, then Shine once you're out of hitstun and you should free yourself from being juggled anymore.

The latest updates enable Fox to jump cancel (JC) his shine. To jump cancel a shine, you simply shine and jump to cancel it. The useful application of this is to JC with a short hop and follow up with an aerial. This is great for shield pressure and linking combos. Personally, I see other measures that do the same amount of damage and take much less effort. If you're a crowd pleaser or are very aggressive, this is perfect for you.

Usefulness: 8/10

Possible combos:
JC shine -> dair -> JC shine -> dair, etc.
JC shine -> nair (I haven't seen vids of this working, but it's good shield pressure)

Up B
Firefox. It’s useful for recovery only. Do not attack with this move.

Usefulness: 10/10 (FOR RECOVERY ONLY)

Possible Combos: none

As far as recovery goes, since Fox's recovery is so predictable, it's mandatory to mix it up to keep your opponent guessing.

Grab Moves:

Forward throw
Low damage, and no real combo options. I don’t recommend this move unless at ridiculously high percents and you can throw them offstage with it.

Usefulness: 2/10

Possible combos: Fthrow -> dash attack (if not teched at lower percents)

Back throw
About as useful as Fthrow imo.

Usefulness: 2/10

Possible combos: Bthrow -> rising fair (only if they jump after being thrown)

Up throw
Useful on platform stages to follow up with an aerial and/or put your opponent in a bad position.

Usefulness: 5/10

Possible combos: Uthrow -> Uair (platform stages)

Down throw
Fox’s best throw. Does the most damage and can combo no matter how it’s di’d. Always use this throw when possible.

Usefulness: 10/10

Possible combos (oh so many!): There are many combos off of Dthrow, so I will classify them in terms of how the opponent could DI them.

DI’d Away from Fox: Fox must run after the opponent…This is the most frequent DI used by opponents, or at least the ones I’ve fought.

On fast fallers, you can only tech chase.

On normal fallers, you can do a running Usmash, a running SH Dair (see dair combos), a running SH nair (see nair combos) *At lower percents, I prefer to do running SH Dair.

On floaties, running usmash/SH dair/ SH nair works at lower percents. At higher percents it’s harder to combo floaties.

No DI:
This rarely happens, since everyone DI’s, but I’m assuming that a running FH (full hop) Dair (see dair combos) works, and maybe even a rising fair.

DI’d Towards Fox:
Rising Fair, FH Dair, FH Bair or FH Uair works here.

I recommend Dair the most, since you have the most options after dair.

Videos

These vids go from oldest to newest. I will try to get new vids of myself up soon.

Yes!'s Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ZB8WIezGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRWPPvgLtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4lBwqHgdjk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDMgezOJVm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVtA8JigRRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2NcCJcxPVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1fPzi_qT98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5fcPE0poac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfMWEuLjs6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfAYsK3Cgk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_a4MQKXD1M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szn2EUTo80Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywhfeDLOmtA

(don't mind the massive amounts of sd's )

Vist's Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPzxhz5pEjc

Blackanese's Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNf5DloexOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg21B-KLHV8&feature=related

Match Up Discussion:

The floor is open to everyone here. We can discuss match ups together as time goes.

Reserved for match up discussion...

Also reserved for match up discussion....

Firefox usefulness at 10/10? Considering how easy it is to gimp out of it, does it really deserve that high of a rating? Or does the high usefulness merely mean that it's a move that must be used when below the ledge and out of jumps?

Put ''Fast Faller,witch help his Combo ability''.
You know,fast faller is a PROS and a CONS at the same time. xD
SHFF'd Nairs ftw.

cman said:

Firefox usefulness at 10/10? Considering how easy it is to gimp out of it, does it really deserve that high of a rating? Or does the high usefulness merely mean that it's a move that must be used when below the ledge and out of jumps?

Click to expand...

Well you can't really recover with side b under the stage useful only for recovery. I added a thought to recovery after the Up B section.

Kuga said:

Put ''Fast Faller,witch help his Combo ability''.
You know,fast faller is a PROS and a CONS at the same time. xD
SHFF'd Nairs ftw.

Click to expand...

I'll fix it.

Videos added for reference. Feel free to post your own as well and I'll include them.

I want you to do one for MK now... mine not only is dead but it sucks.

Lol I don't really use metaknight >.>;

Since you seem to be busy now, I'm just gonna drop this off on this thread so you can get around to when you're able to (not sure if you have your aim set to log your conversations or not).

leafgreen386 (7:38:44 PM): I disagree about never wanting to use uthrow
leafgreen386 (7:38:51 PM): if you're facing a ledge
leafgreen386 (7:38:53 PM): and get a grab
leafgreen386 (7:38:56 PM): what do you do?
leafgreen386 (7:39:39 PM): you can dthrow them, but with no running room, you can't really follow up, and fox's edgeguarding isn't fantastic, although I suppose you could try for a shinespike
leafgreen386 (7:39:50 PM): on most stages, there would be a platform above you
leafgreen386 (7:39:53 PM): and if you uthrow them
leafgreen386 (7:40:00 PM): you now have a strong positional advantage
leafgreen386 (7:40:11 PM): and can **** them when they fall back down onto the platform
yes2good9487 (7:47:08 PM): uthrow kinda sucks :-/ if i'm facing the ledge i'd either fthrow or dthrow to get them offstage or put on more damage (respectively)
leafgreen386 (7:47:27 PM): yeah, I know uthrow sucks
leafgreen386 (7:47:28 PM): huge lag
leafgreen386 (7:47:33 PM): doesn't true combo with anything
leafgreen386 (7:47:35 PM): but
yes2good9487 (7:47:44 PM): hmm platform uthrows seems interesting though
leafgreen386 (7:47:44 PM): it can net you a positional advantage if you throw them onto a plat
leafgreen386 (7:47:54 PM): plus, they have lag when they land
leafgreen386 (7:47:57 PM): so if you time an aerial right
leafgreen386 (7:48:05 PM): you can actually get a relatively guaranteed hit off


When you asked me if you could just c/p for the fox changes from vbrawl, I thought you meant from the official changelist. lol

Here, use this:
Also mention that the shine now tumbles and you're done.


For the uair, when I was saying that uair combos into itself at certain percents, I actually meant fj uair -> fj dj uair. Around mid percents you can do that from a utilt iirc, although I'm sure falling uair -> uair works as well.

On floaties, running usmash/SH dair/ and maybe SH nair works at lower percents. At higher percents it’s harder to combo floaties.

Click to expand...

Like I said, if sh dair can combo, then sh nair most certainly should as well, since nair has more range than dair does.

Cowtipper9487 said:

Lol I don't really use metaknight >.>;

Click to expand...

Ahh............

i think fox's fthwo and upthrow should be slightly higher than his bthrow. at least u can use the fthrow and upthrow to mix it up a bit.

i find that on low % (especially vs fastfallers), you can use upthrow to lead into uptilt-dair/upair etc, which is always nice

Yeah... actually...

me said:

leafgreen386 (7:47:33 PM): doesn't true combo with anything

Click to expand...

I've recently found out this isn't true. At mid-high percents you can actually do a legit uthrow -> uair against some (most?) chars. It's pretty cool. Definitely worth looking more into.

Even though I question the usefulness meter on some of these moves, this is a pretty nice guide, good job.

Nair for got tier.

Edit: nvm .

leafgreen386 said:

Yeah... actually...


I've recently found out this isn't true. At mid-high percents you can actually do a legit uthrow -> uair against some (most?) chars. It's pretty cool. Definitely worth looking more into.

Click to expand...

I can't test it myself since I don't own a wii so please let me know what you find out.

iSpiN said:

Even though I question the usefulness meter on some of these moves, this is a pretty nice guide, good job.

Nair for got tier.

Click to expand...

Like I said it's strictly my opinion of how good his moves are. Feel free to let me know of your opinions though.

Edit: Should Up Smash be higher than 12/10?

Kuga said:

Edit: nvm .

Click to expand...

nvm? WHYYYY???

i think i'll make one contribution on matchups:

when fighting luigi, don't get grabbed
0-death ftw

Yeah I've had to fight vex's luigi. Scary stuff. Fox has to run away the whole time and look for an opening.

Luigi gets camped pretty hard though, thankfully for Fox :D

I am sad. It appears the only characters that uthrow -> uair works on are fast fallers, which means fox, falco, and falcon. There may be a few semi-fast fallers and/or lightweights it works on at certain percents, but I couldn't get it to work even with full buffer (so mostly eliminating human error).

It appears to work against fox as early as 65% and continues to work long passed that. Falco and falcon seem to start working a little bit later than that (around 75-80%).

Is there a "no-auto-jab" code?
Because in my opinion it´s not very easy to do Jab --> Grab with auto jab.

I_Am_Plum said:

Good luck doing anything to Luigi at lower percents though
Nair will just get him out of anything at lower percents... Even through things that he shouldn't be able to get out of without DI, and some stupider things like Nairing through Fair even after half the hits connect. Nair is just too good...

Click to expand...

lol how do you think I beat vex's luigi? :D Camp camp camp, wait for a mistake, and avoid his aerial superiority. Usmash for the kill as always.

I think I'm gonna increase the usefulness of up smash.

Pink name!

Firefox is hands down his worst recovery method.
Foxcopter still works, gains altitude and hovers for a moment, and Illusion is better than Firefox, because it's faster and cancelable.

Firefox has long startup, which even despite DIing it, leaves him wide open for spikes around the clock or other shine spikes (Wolf). He can be grabbed during it as well, and with characters like Ness or Luigi, whose grabs either kills or combos into a kill, that makes it even worse.
Single hitbox makes for easy punishing after guarded, and the speed of it doesn't help it any.
Illusion has similar problems, but Fox isn't a ditting duck for 2 seconds (in which alot can happen), he moves faster, about just as much distance, and harder to punish and read, because of it's speed, works well with shine stalling and Foxcopter, which can compensate for any altitude issues that arises.
Firefox should only be used for variety, never a first priority recovery.

Also, a suggestion.

Needs moar Colour.

What do you think of fighting Jigglypuff? Does she make you laugh? Cringe in fear?

CloneHat said:

What do you think of fighting Jigglypuff? Does she make you laugh? Cringe in fear?

Click to expand...

She makes me camp lasers. After 40% you're safe to be more risky but before that she can combo to rest you.

knuxrouge said:

Firefox is hands down his worst recovery method.
Foxcopter still works, gains altitude and hovers for a moment, and Illusion is better than Firefox, because it's faster and cancelable.

Firefox has long startup, which even despite DIing it, leaves him wide open for spikes around the clock or other shine spikes (Wolf). He can be grabbed during it as well, and with characters like Ness or Luigi, whose grabs either kills or combos into a kill, that makes it even worse.
Single hitbox makes for easy punishing after guarded, and the speed of it doesn't help it any.
Illusion has similar problems, but Fox isn't a ditting duck for 2 seconds (in which alot can happen), he moves faster, about just as much distance, and harder to punish and read, because of it's speed, works well with shine stalling and Foxcopter, which can compensate for any altitude issues that arises.
Firefox should only be used for variety, never a first priority recovery.

Also, a suggestion.

Needs moar Colour.

Click to expand...

Try to illusion when you're under the ledge. If you can get back to the stage in such a way I will admit you're the best Fox player in the world.

It's better to mix up recovery than just do the same thing every time.

Cowtipper9487 said:

Try to illusion when you're under the ledge. If you can get back to the stage in such a way I will admit you're the best Fox player in the world.

It's better to mix up recovery than just do the same thing every time.

Click to expand...

Gee, really? it never dawned me!

knuxrouge said:

Illusion has similar problems, but Fox isn't a ditting duck for 2 seconds (in which alot can happen), he moves faster, about just as much distance, and harder to punish and read, because of it's speed, works well with shine stalling and Foxcopter, which can compensate for any altitude issues that arises.
Firefox should only be used for variety, never a first priority recovery.

Click to expand...

I already tackled those two points you made in my last post, I made them more clear now, since it seemed you missed them previously.
Your rebuttal?

Why is there even an argument to be had? You firefox if Fair boosting your jump doesn't get you high enough. You firefox if your opponent is consistently hitting you out of illusion. The versatility of having two recoveries almost makes up for how predictable and or slow that they may be individually. One may be better, but you should never neglect the other.





Anyways, my input: I think you underestimate Dtilt. Dair combos into Dtilt in a fairly unrisky fashon. It works just as well as Utilt but with better range in front and less behind. At the right %s on the right chars, it'll combo neatly into most aerials to boot.

It's most helpful if they DI away from you during a Dair and are out of range of an Utilt.

knuxrouge said:

Gee, really? it never dawned me!



I already tackled those two points you made in my last post, I made them more clear now, since it seemed you missed them previously.
Your rebuttal?

Click to expand...

My rebuttal: lol @ you trying to teach me how to use fox.

Seriously though, I'm not gonna list every single way and situation to recover. You need to use your head for that.

Jon64 said:

Why is there even an argument to be had? You firefox if Fair boosting your jump doesn't get you high enough. You firefox if your opponent is consistently hitting you out of illusion. The versatility of having two recoveries almost makes up for how predictable and or slow that they may be individually. One may be better, but you should never neglect the other.





Anyways, my input: I think you underestimate Dtilt. Dair combos into Dtilt in a fairly unrisky fashon. It works just as well as Utilt but with better range in front and less behind. At the right %s on the right chars, it'll combo neatly into most aerials to boot.

It's most helpful if they DI away from you during a Dair and are out of range of an Utilt.

Click to expand...

idk

If you're close enough to do a dair, a utilt is usually guaranteed. Like I said it's just my opinion :-/ I'd say you're better off doing utilt grab or usmash unstead of dtilt.

Edit: lmfao Fox Copter? It's a rising fair xD

Cowtipper, I'm not trying to teach you anything you--as a Fox player--shouldn't already know, my point was that Firefox is like last resort if nothing else works, I really really don't think it deserves a 10 out of 10 in the recovery section, it takes 3 hours to start up, slow speed = easy edgehog/punishing, unsafe in general.

I was backing up my points as any smart person would when trying to make a point. Don't misread it.

Upb is fine to use since you can't recover predictably every time. That won't get you far in tournaments trust me.

btw, please refer to me as Yes. thanks

Cowtipper9487 said:

Upb is fine to use since you can't recover predictably every time. That won't get you far in tournaments trust me.

Click to expand...

I understand, but 10 out of 10? That gives the impression that it's perfect for all recovery situations.
That ain't a Shuttle Loop.
It's a seven at the most, and that's only because of it's range.

btw, please refer to me as Yes. thanks

Click to expand...

Only if you refer to me as Skye.

Can't you get name changes??

Yes!, wanna discuss wolf match up in whatever thread? Sheik discussion has pretty much diminished from the Wolf thread.

Palpi said:

Can't you get name changes??

Yes!, wanna discuss wolf match up in whatever thread? Sheik discussion has pretty much diminished from the Wolf thread.

Click to expand...

I think "Skye" is already taken, which is why it's not mine.
Discussions!?
I'm in!

There's already a Yes, Yes!, Yes!!, and Yesh taken lol...

imo it's better to use both recoveries to keep your opponents guessing.

Fox can overwhelm Wolf pretty badly. If the Fox chose too he could win by camping. Fox vs Wolf is probably 65:35 or something. Not ****, but not even.

Remember, no numbers!!!!

Fox can shine spike Wolf while being in the middle of his recovery, so Fox can just jump in the middle of his up B and start spamming down B.
Wolf can also make use of his invincibility frames and lack of fall stalling shine to gimp Fox's recoveries as well.
Both of them combo like mad, and Wolf is slightly heavier than Fox in terms of vertical knockback resistance. However, Fox is much more maneuverable with his lasers, and much faster than Wolf, so he can literally dance around him and wait for a chance to strike. While Wolf is forced to get in Fox's face, Fox can play around if he wanted to.
The match up is slightly in Fox's favor.
Just slightly.

I'd say it's more in fox's favor than it being slightly in his favor. The only thing wolf has on fox is range and priority, but it doesn't take much for fox to get in close if he wanted to. Since I'm forbidden to use numbers I'll say its Fox Fox Fox!

knuxrouge said:

Fox can shine spike Wolf while being in the middle of his recovery, so Fox can just jump in the middle of his up B and start spamming down B.

Click to expand...

We're fixing wolf's upB to prevent people from getting out of it, so you can pretty much drop this part of the argument as far as matchup discussion goes.

leafgreen386 said:

We're fixing wolf's upB to prevent people from getting out of it, so you can pretty much drop this part of the argument as far as matchup discussion goes.

Click to expand...

On match up discussions, we focus on the "now", not the "later".
Get back to me when it's actually fixed (and not "fixing") and put in an official build.

eh...Leafgreen's right. It's silly to discuss matchups anyway when anything can change. Fox still wins vs wolf though.