Defrag Character Counterpicking Discussion ~~ Jigglypuff!

Let's finish up what Sudai started a while back. Don't neglect the other discussions either, Like Landry's Stage Discussion.

Character:
Preferred Neutral Stage:
Neutral Stage to Avoid:
Counterpick Options:
Ban Options:

Fox-
Preferred Neutral Stage: Lylat Cruise
Lylat Cruise has the natural stage "tilt" that can potential screw over Fox's Illusion recovery, although the ceiling may be an issue. Both sides have to be careful with their zoning, although ROB can really rack up some damage here. For some reason the platforms of Lylat don't feel as dangerous as the platforms of Battlefield, although that may just be me.


Neutral Stage to Avoid:
Battlefield or Smashville. Battlefield because the platforms, while helping ROB a bit, will making Fox very difficult to fight against. Smashville because of the low ceiling allowing Fox to score an easy U-Smash kill after a bit of juggling, or even U-Air kill. Considering a key trait of ROB is his survivability, you don't want to lose that.

Counterpick Options: Frigate Orpheon
Standard ROB counterpick. No ledge on the right side 1st transformation, yaddayaddayadda.

Ban Options: Brinstar
This stage is a huge pain in the butt. The ceiling isn't friendly, the sides are close, the platforms and irregular surface make ROB work extra hard, and the acid can negate a lot of ROBs kills (although dealing some percents to the opponent is nice).

~Fox~

Preferred Neutral Stage: Obviously Lylat if it's a neutral. The platforms interfere with Fox's laser game and the edges hurt his recovery big time. If Lylats a CP then you want Yoshi's Island. The platform again messes with his laser game, and it's got a fairly high blast zone that will let you live through usmash and utilits.

Neutral Stage to Avoid: Final Destination. A good Fox will out camp you, no questions asked. He can rack up damage with his lasers, and when you go to counter with your projectiles he'll bust out his shine.

Counterpick Options: Frigate. The first transformation doesn't have a ledge on the right side, and that pretty much ruins Fox's recovery.

Ban Options: Delfino. Even if Fox is chased off the edge of the moving platform he can shine-stall for a considerable time and wait for the stage to land. Many of the stages transformations have walls Fox can set up a jab-lock on.

Character:

Preferred Neutral Stage: Lylat Cruise/Final Destination

Neutral Stage to Avoid: Yoshi's Island

Counterpick Options: Frigate Orpheon

Ban Options: Luigi's Mansion/Delfino

Odd, I seem to do *waaaay* better against foxes on BF than I do on FD. But, I'm an anomaly... I <3 BF.

I usually just pick Yoshi's Island so that I can camp. That is assuming the Fox player doesn't wise up and just hold shine down the entire time I'm on the sides of the stage.

Preferred Neutral Stage: Yoshi's, Lylat or BF. The platforms block the majority of his D-air approaches.

Neutral Stage to Avoid: FD. He can camp you like a mofo, and the reflector of his doesn't really help our chances either.

Counterpick Options: JAPES! Japes is ALWAYS the best option for Fox. Side platforms are elevated so its harder for him to hit you with laser, and you can see him coming if he tries to approach with Dair. Also, due to ******** high ceiling, Usmash takes a while to kill.

Mansion: house blocks laser, alot of Dair approaches are blocked due to stage structure.

Frigate: If the other two aren't banned. Makes good for gimping.

Ban Options: FD, SV

You may begin discussing Jigglypuff now.

Sliq.

Oh, my bad. Anyway...

Preferred Neutral Stage: Final Destination- avoid rollout and dair shenanigans and you'll live forever. You can kill Jigglypuff more easily than she can kill you

Neutral Stage to Avoid: Lylat, then BF. Lylat's platforms and blast zones play more into Jiggs' favor than ROB's

Counterpick Options: Frigate, FD

Ban Options: Japes or anywhere you don't feel comfortable on. What? Ban Japes? If you don't, just know that jiggs has a LOT of trixies on japes, everything from floating under platforms to using rollout to speed across the stage and grab the side platform edge. I've actually been counterpicked there when I banned Brinstar

Social thread's cool and all, but we should post in something that matters, like this for a bit.

I really don't have too much knowledge on this... but...

Preferred neutral: ... Eh, im partial to BF and SV, moreso SV. FD lets her roam about way too much, and YS... well, I just don't like that stage.

BF:
+ platforms offer a bit of a shield at times
+ platforms can net you a super early kill (75% or so) with a U-smash
+ can hide from rollout with platforms
- can get trixied into a random rollout bc of platforms
- Jump up through platform->rest & drop down through platform->rest ;_;
- U-air game of jiggly gets a good boost

SV:
+/- platforms similar to BF
+ A bit of room to camp without letting her just... flop and fly around

Again... just my opinions.