Wait, Ike can do that? - a Comprehensive Guide to Ike (A Work in Progress)

Wait, Ike can do that?: a Comprehensive Guide to Ike​

Hello, everybody. This is Wait, Ike can do that?, a new comprehensive guide for Ike. This will be a collaborative effort by everybody who contributes into creating the most complete, and comprehensive guide for both the beginner Ike and the competitive Ike. It will cover most of the basics as well as most of the advanced aspects of Ike. Whether you're a beginner or an amateur seeking to improve his game, there's going to be something you'll learn from here. So, why don't we get started?


Table of Contents
I: Why choose Ike?
a. Background information about Ike
b. Ike in Super Smash Bros Brawl
c. Pros/Cons of Ike
d. Conclusion about Ike as a character
II: Analysis of Ike's potential
a. Ike's moves
b. Frame Analysis
III: The offensive aspect of Ike
a. Safe Approach Options
b. Playing Ike smartly
c. Not just using Ike's smashes
d. Knowing when to "stop"
IV: The defensive aspect of Ike
a. Using Ike's grab game
b. "Retreating" moves
c. Using Platforms
d. Baiting/Punishing
V: Recovering
a. DI, SDI, and Momentum Cancelling
b. Specific methods for Horizontal/Vertical Recovery
c. Uses of Ike's Aerial Dodge for Recovery
VI: Ike's Jab game
a. Specific safe jab mixups
b. Using Jab as an important tool
c. Combat walking
VII: Other important things
a. Prediction games
b. Useful CPs for Ike
VIII: Normal C-Stick vs. Attack Stick vs. B-stick
a. Configuring the C-stick
b. Pros/Cons of each
c. Choosing the stick for you
IV: Helpful sources/links/threads
V: Special thanks, Credits, and Conclusion


I. Why choose Ike?
a. Background information about Ike
Ike is known, by many, as the blue-haired protagonist from the games: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Ike is widely known for his raw power and strength. In fact, he wields the two-handed holy, gold sword, Ragnell, with only one hand! Ike is one of only two Fire Emblem characters who have been introduced in Super Smash Bros Brawl, the other being Marth. Ike was essentially thought to be a copy of Roy from Super Smash Bros Melee by many before Brawl's release, but as it turned out, he was not a clone of Roy. Ike is voiced by Michihiko Hagi in the Japanese version of Brawl and by Jason Adkins in the American version of Brawl.

b. Ike in Super Smash Bros Brawl
Although Ike was overall balanced (some might say broken) and a great character to use in the Fire Emblem games (obviously because he was the main character), this is certainly not the case for Super Smash Bros Brawl. Let's look at a quick comparison between the Ikes from both games.

Ike in Fire Emblem
1. Aether had healing properties.
2. Ike was faster.
3. Ike was the main character.

Compare to.....

Ike in Super Smash Bros Brawl
1. Aether does NOT have healing properties.
2. Ike is slower.
3. Ike is not the main character.

Through the comparison, I believe we can deduce that Ike is worse in Super Smash Bros Brawl than in Fire Emblem. It is unfortunate that some of the benefits that Ike had in Fire Emblem were not carried over to Brawl, but that is the case for many characters that were included in Brawl. With that, let us move on to some of the pros/cons of Ike in Super Smash Bros Brawl.

c. Pros/Cons of Ike (In Brawl)
Pros.
-Ike has very powerful attacks that rack up damage quickly and KO easily
-Ike has 2 spikes and one semi-spike
-Ike has several long-ranged attacks
-Ike is a heavy weight
-Ike has one of the best jab cancels in the game

Cons.
-Relatively slow and predictable moveset
-Recovery options are rather limited and gimped easily
-Ike does not have a projectile
-Start-up lag on most of Ike's moveset is considerable
-Ike's special(B) moveset is very situational

d. Conclusion about Ike as a character
So why would anyone choose Ike as their main in Super Smash Bros Brawl? It's because he fights for his friends! (You'll get no sympathy from me!). Honestly however, one can go pretty far with Ike as a character if they utilize each of his moves correctly as well as smartly. When Brawl was first released, many picked up Ike because he was one of the strongest characters in the game and people thought they could utilize Ike's power to win games. Ike's raw power is the very reason why people should pick him up as a character. Think about it; Ike can kill anybody starting from 40% and on with smart well-placed smashes and many of his pros do help his gameplay a lot, especially his jab cancels. It's no reason why people tend to shield a lot out of fear when they play Ike. Therefore, if you're a person who wants to KO early and wants to play a more conservative game in Brawl, Ike is definitely the character for you. Be warned though; Ike does take a bigger learning curve than characters like say, Meta Knight. However, keep in mind that by playing Ike, you'll learn how to play the game more analytically.



II. Analysis of Ike's potential
a. Ike's moves.
b, Frame Analysis.

III. The offensive aspect of Ike
a. Safe Approach Options.
Like every character in Brawl, it is always inevitable that Ike will approach some time in a match. However, Ike unfortunately has many moves which have considerable ending lag, making approaching something that needs to be thoroughly thought out before one rushes right into the battle. In any case, these are the approach options that most Ike players will commonly use in a match.

Nair
Nair is arguably Ike's safest approach. The reason for this is that a shorthop Nair has very minimal landing lag, (mistaken for auto cancelling by many). In fact, 18 frames of landing lag to be exact. Nair also ends with 13 IASA Frames, a relatively low number. What does this mean? This means that Ike is capable of following up a short hop Nair with any move that comes out either below/equal/slightly above 13 frames. These include jabs, Utilt, Dsmash, etc. The most reliable move to follow Nair up with though is Jab. Nair works great as an approach for this reason as well as being a move that helps start many of Ike's "combos". For example, if Nair hits an opponent, one can follow up with jabs -> jab cancelling -> Bthrow -> Dash attack for a grand total of about 35-50%. For characters that have a weak aerial game, Nair also helps Ike in that it sends Ike's opponents into the air, where Ike's relatively strong aerial game can dominate the opponent.

Though Nair does have some wonderful benefits, it does have its drawbacks. For one, since Nair involves a wide swing, it becomes a simple game for an opponent to predict when Ike is going to Nair. Landing a Nair on block also is highly punishable, most notably by Meta Knight's Dsmash. The good thing is that Ike's Nair can be immediately followed up by jab, which comes out in 3 frames so unless your opponent has a move that comes out in 2 frames or Nair separates you from your opponent far away from jab range, jabbing after Nairing unsuccessfully will generally keep Ike safe. OOS(Out of shield) options and characters with an excellent grab game such as King Dedede or Donkey Kong, however, often shut out Nair approaches, such as OOS Shuttle Loop by Meta Knight or OOS Dolphin Slash by Marth. Ironically, Nair's wide swing is also a benefit in that if the opponent air dodges, he/she will still most likely get hit by Nair's wide swing area.

It is also unwise to use Ike's Nair against characters whose grab range exceeds
Nair's range, the most prominent being Dedede. Dedede's grab range is obscene; he has no problem shield grabbing Ike after he Nairs unsuccessfully. Using Nair against characters with tether grabs is also a bit risky. Characters such as Link and Toon Link will give you a lot of trouble if you Nair indiscriminately. Slower Tether grabbers such as Samus/ZSS/Yoshi probably won't give you too much trouble though.

All in all, Nair is one of Ike's safest approaches. Just make sure that it's used wisely and not just thrown out randomly. Try to always short hop Nairs, because full hop Nairs are pretty easily punished.


Fair

This post reserved for the guide owner.

If you want to take anything from any of my threads, go right ahead.

If there's something that needs to be explained or you want more added, just let me know.

So where is the guide? Is it in some other thread?

ZonictheHedgehog said:

So where is the guide? Is it in some other thread?

Click to expand...

Its a work in progress >__<

You’re doing it wrong.

The Pikachu guide might be an example on how to make a good guide, but that doesn’t mean you should plagiarize it. At least cite their guide as a reference. And that image, it looks like we are making fun out of ourselves.

Was that post necessary? Rather, was the bluntness of it necessary? How Kimchi's thread "wrong"? How is it plagiarism? If it's a good way to make a guide, why not use it? And this is an Ike guide-- I don't see why we'd need to cite a Pikachu guide.. or do whatever you're saying.
As for the picture.. who cares? Not to mention.. it's probably just a silly picture for starting out. It's probably going to change anyway.
Just calm down about it and give your ideas in a kinder manner than "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!"

@ Kimchi: Is this work going to be completely separate from Ryko's upcoming video guide.. or will we use that as a part of this guide.. or what?

Teh Brettster said:

Was that post necessary? Rather, was the bluntness of it necessary? How Kimchi's thread "wrong"? How is it plagiarism? If it's a good way to make a guide, why not use it? And this is an Ike guide-- I don't see why we'd need to cite a Pikachu guide.. or do whatever you're saying.
As for the picture.. who cares? Not to mention.. it's probably just a silly picture for starting out. It's probably going to change anyway.
Just calm down about it and give your ideas in a kinder manner than "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!"

@ Kimchi: Is this work going to be completely separate from Ryko's upcoming video guide.. or will we use that as a part of this guide.. or what?

Click to expand...

It depends whether Ryko finishes his video guide first. Since this guide applies to both beginners and advanced players, it will probably include Ryko. Also, in response to Guilhe, I admit I did take some ideas from the Pikachu guide. However, I'm merely using some of their organization as a reference for now. Starting a huge guide, especially this comprehensive is hard and I was rather confused on how to organize it. I'm going to reorganize everything though don't you worry. This is a work in progress everybody so anyone can contribute. I'm going to try to make this as comprehensive as possible and I'll try to work on this as quickly but concisely as possible. This means pictures, yay.

Guilhe said:

Bluntness in a quick reply, in a largely informal internet forum is really up to the eye of the beholder. Personally, I was not aiming on being blunt. And yes, it is necessary. The Pikachu backroom had to work their ***** for making the organized model we are so dogmatically coping, they deserve it.

Click to expand...

Again, I am only temporarily using their organization as a reference. I plan to radically change everything once I have all the information in the thread.

I kind of expected a little more content to be prepared even for the first revision >_>, but that's cool, I look forward to seeing the finished product! ^_^ Ike boards could really use this, frankly.

Some good jabs/combo jabs I know a couple, so if you need some jab combos for your Jab Chapter just tell me, and I'll see what I can give you! ^_^

I think any one of us could write a whole page on jabs/when to use which jab combos (according to opponent's character and grasp on how to escape them)/how to follow up jab combos. But it's nice to see people willing to help anyhow. =]

Do we have an estimated time of completion for this?

Senior Critic Palpi will help in anyway possible.

-Senior Critic Palpi

(I actually will, im not joking)

Teh Brettster said:

I think any one of us could write a whole page on jabs/when to use which jab combos (according to opponent's character and grasp on how to escape them)/how to follow up jab combos. But it's nice to see people willing to help anyhow. =]

Do we have an estimated time of completion for this?

Click to expand...

I'm probably going to try to finish this by the end of the summer, but at the pace I'm working now, it's not going to happen. Everybody needs to contribute to make this happen. For example, Kirk is donating his frame analysis for assistance. Contributions don't have to be too completely detailed, just important feedback that will help, and I'm not talking about, "You should abuse Ike's range" or whatever crap like that. If the whole community can do that, this project will be finished in about a month or two with the final finished product being stickied by the end of the summer.

ilovekimchixD said:

I'm probably going to try to finish this by the end of the summer, but at the pace I'm working now, it's not going to happen. Everybody needs to contribute to make this happen. For example, Kirk is donating his frame analysis for assistance. Contributions don't have to be too completely detailed, just important feedback that will help, and I'm not talking about, "You should abuse Ike's range" or whatever crap like that. If the whole community can do that, this project will be finished in about a month or two with the final finished product being stickied by the end of the summer.

Click to expand...

Tell me what you want done and I'll try to help (except for match-ups... I don't have much experience with those at all ).

Ditto. If there's a job you think I can handle, I'll take it up.
Looks like a good few of us are willing to help, as long as we're given things to do.

I am currently working on the Wolf+ Guide now, but as code sets get released, I have time to work with ike. I could do move set analysis.

I can help out with this too now, I feel confident enough with my Ike knowledge to contribute. Assign me something to work on and I'll make it sound as professional and concise (without leaving out any details of course) as possible.

Looking good so far, Kimchi.
Keep it up.

Well, Palpi just volunteered to contribute to the Moves Analysis, which is Part II of this guide. I need some volunteers to provide a complete, thorough analysis of Ike's approaches. Please PM me if you wish to volunteer.

Under pros, you should probably add that Ike has an AMAZING jab cancel - one of the best in the game, if not the best.

Other than that, it's looking good so far.

ilovekimchixD said:

...Kirk, may I use your video of Ike's moveset that you uploaded about a year ago as a reference?

Click to expand...

As I've said, you may use anything you'd like. Though, some of the stuff(like what you just mentioned), is VERY old and I don't know if using it would be any good. Even if it's merely showing each move, the video itself is crude if you ask me. But by all means, if you wish to use it go right ahead.

Which reminds me, my frame data is still somewhat incomplete...

But seriously, if a new ike looks at a guide and sees "x" comes out in "y" frames. That means nothing to them it is not too big of a deal.

I do not like the guide as it is now; you’re not showing enough background info beyond what should be already written at the collectible trophies, your con list implicitly repeat cons as to balance itself with the pro list (which also repeats a pro twice) and you’re not valuing our character enough. Your introduction states, though implicitly, that “Ike is bad, but not too bad” when it should be reading “Ike is bad, but at the right hands he can do amazing things”. Also, (like metroid said previously) you haven’t mentioned jab game at the pro list and your “conclusion about Ike as a character” doesn’t say much about how he is played, just that he is a low tier character with some potential. Being an Ike mainer, reading it makes me feel sad about our current situation.

And please cite the Pikachu guide as reference when the work is done.

Hmmm... I kind of agree with Guilhe there, the intro could be more optimistic and encouraging about Ike as a character. Look at the Ganon boards' guide for example, they go over his moves, pros and cons critically but at the same time they talk about him like he's a demi-god who just wants to take it easy on the other characters, but could crush them if he wanted to. It adds comedy and makes Ganon look better and more appealing as a character, especially since they don't mention his tier position.

When you think about it, tier position isn't necessary to mention in the guide. I mean, it has nothing to do with actual analysis of the character and stating Ike is low tier may deter new players from trying him out (provided they haven't already seen tier lists).

Sorry, haven't been on in a while. Yes, I do plan on changing the intro. I'll update the edited one soon.

Guilhe said:

I do not like the guide as it is now; you’re not showing enough background info beyond what should be already written at the collectible trophies, your con list implicitly repeat cons as to balance itself with the pro list (which also repeats a pro twice) and you’re not valuing our character enough.

Click to expand...

I didn't really want to get too involved in Ike's Fire Emblem history, because this is after all, a Super Smash Bros Brawl guide for Ike. Could you please kindly point out which pro/con I repeat?

ilovekimchixD said:

Sorry, haven't been on in a while. Yes, I do plan on changing the intro. I'll update the edited one soon.

I didn't really want to get too involved in Ike's Fire Emblem history, because this is after all, a Super Smash Bros Brawl guide for Ike. Could you please kindly point out which pro/con I repeat?

Click to expand...

"Ike has very powerful attacks" is sort of similar to "Ike KOs easily." Likewise, "Ike is easily punished" and "Ike is slow" are similar as well. What I suggest is to sort of combine the similar pros and cons together by adding on some info; instead of having two separate pros for Ike's raw power, you can say something like "Ike has very powerful attacks, allowing him to get early KOs." For the "Ike is slow" con, you can say something like "Ike is slow in terms of both movement and wind-up or wind-down lag, allowing him to be easily punished."

ike is one of those characters imo where you MUST play on your feet you must react to everything and know how to react to it, mindgames play one of the biggest roles of ikes game and if you dont know his moveset and how to use him then you are pretty much screwed

Still, if you are going to add a background section you should provide background information. If you wish I could do that for you.

ilovekimchixD said:

Pros.
-Ike has very powerful attacks
-Ike racks up damage quickly
-Ike KOs easily

Click to expand...

The above pros can all be compiled into “Ike's attacks damage heavily and KO opponents early”

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike has 2 spikes and one semi-spike
-Ike has several long-ranged attacks
-Ike is a heavy character
-Ike has one of the best jab cancels in the game

Click to expand...

ilovekimchixD said:

Cons.
-Ike has a predictable moveset
-Ike is easily punished

Click to expand...

The above cons are player dependent. You could say Ike has limited approach methods.

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike is slow

Click to expand...

Ike's movement and attacks are relatively slower in comparison with the majority of the cast.

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike is gimped relatively easily

Click to expand...

Again player dependent. Limited recovery options.

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike does not have a projectile

Click to expand...

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike's Side B recovery is pitiful

Click to expand...

You're repeating that Ike's recovery can be gimped easely

ilovekimchixD said:

-Ike's special(B) moveset is relatively useless

Click to expand...

Situational as attack methods.

My recomendation of a pros/cons list:

Pros:
- Powerful attacks that KO opponents early and heavily damages them;
- Huge and long ranged disjointed hitboxes with high priority;
- Heavy weight;
- Mighty spikes that are highly effective on water;
- Godly jab sequence;
- An extremely long DACIT;


Cons:
- Limited approach methods and recovery options;
- Especially vulnerable while recovering;
- Large amounts of lag throughout the moveset;
- Relatively slow movement;
- Doesn't have a projectile;

Awesome Ike picture is awesome. I don't know why anyone would dislike it. Nothing better to grab your attention. Who wouldn't want to keep reading after seeing that? On that note, Here is a complimentary Ike album

But now in all seriousness. This looks like a good start Kimchi, we are in sore need of Ike data that is actually current. It looks like you've got a team of volunteers to help you out, but I'll go ahead and volunteer myself as well. Just not frame data. Not that it looks like you're going to need frame data for a while. But yeah, talk to me sometime if you want me to help on something.

I will have the move set analysis done by Friday without frame data since you have access to that Kimichi.

i too will voulonteer for anything but frame data. No homebrew

My Ike is no more than mediocre I'm betting, so I can't wait until this guide gets up here so I can improve my game with him some more. I'm not really accustomed to heavy hitters but I like Ike xd

I'm not very knowledgeable nor am I even that good with Ike, but I would like to help in anyway that I can. So please, if there is anything I can do, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Hey, I noteticed a small little mistake, Ike really has FOUR spikes, not three, but three of them are only useful, thats


Up-B

D-air

D-tilt


and the one that not really all that useful


B


just letting you, not being mean.

isn't ike a medium weight character?

lcampoy8 said:

isn't ike a medium weight character?

Click to expand...

Thats what I thought, but he's a heavy weight.

lcampoy8 said:

isn't ike a medium weight character?

Click to expand...

Ike is the 8th heaviest character in the game. DK, DDD, Snake, Bowser, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Charizard are all heaver (in that order).

That's strange. D3, Snake and Bowser seem heavier than DK for some reason.
Now that I think of it... nah. But he can't be much heavier than they are.

Anyway. So, basically, we're the lightest heavyweight.

(CF is a surprise. I thought he was medium.)