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Well, there is a new thread that will be CONSISTENTLY UPDATED(I hope), so go there.

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superyoshi888

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D.B.K.'s Pichu .PAC


Pichu v1.999



Changes

Moveset

Bair: Sourspot removed. Spin on land also removed. IASA earlier. Even earlier IASA into uair added.

Uair: Landlag now at 3.5x, made much stronger to be more like Melee's, more angles changed to 90ish. Now combos into Bair!!! You can still footstool out of this if you hit with the tip of the tail.

Fair: Landlag now at 3.3x, made weaker, finishing hit removed, and damage raised. Melee's for the most part, but does more damage and hits faster. Lern2footstool out of this or else you bad.

Dair: Landlag now at 1.8x instead of 2.0x to avoid locks on fastfallers. Shouldn't be too noticeable.

Nair: Sourspot strengthened to be more like Melee; use to approach pls.

Dsmash: 50 KBG from 64 and 55 KB from 67 in an attempt to stop it from being "be all end all", lowered 2.0 hitlag to 1.7, Speed 1.65x from 1.5x on frame 6. This hitbox only hits on frame 1. On frame 2, another hitbox comes out with the same stats but 1.3x hitlag for aesthetic reasons.

Usmash: Got rid of random aura hitbox that made no sense .

Fsmash: Fixed the glitch where hitboxes and GFX did not appear sometimes.

SideB: uncharged much stronger base, slightly quicker interrupt after collision. Use as a combo finisher

Uthrow: Hitlag now at 1.7x from 1x. 2.9x speed on frame 13.

Fthrow: You may now interrupt sooner. Opponent should l2DI if you chaingrab/lock them. Makes a sound sorta like someone hitting a garbage can :V

Bthrow: Now zaps 6 times for a total of 10 damage. Ehehe. Also can kill Jigglypuff at 225%.
...And starting at exactly 533%, no more, no less.. It throws in the wrong direction? :\

Dtaunt: Animation changed to BALLERINA~~ Now has super early IASA, interrupt really early for added lulz. (DIK DIK DIK DIK DIK DICKKAAAAAAI :v)
Cosmetic

Model size: 0.85 from 0.7 as to not shut down all attempts at aerial attacks (No more grounded Failcons kthx)

Footstool animation now interruptible on frame 6.

To-Do

Wait for model importer

Get a model to import >.<

Increase crawlspeed​



EPIC.
 

5ive

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Me and Storm discussed some stuff. I have some idaes, but are all just speculation.

Here's the PM I sent Storm.
5ive said:
Here we go. I have conjured up some major but unique changes that both stem from Melee, but make Pichu incredibly different from Pikachu.

Here are changes based off of Melee

Upsmash is weaker than Pikachu's
Fsmash is stronger, and is a multihit move
Dsmash isn't electric and is a 1/2 hit move
Uair tail spike is gone
Utilt has less knockback
Dtilt has less knockback
Less range overall
Shorter Short hop
Up B gains slightly more distance but less controllable
1 or 2 frame lag on QA
Less killing potential on nair

Here are major changes that makes Pichu unique from Pikachu:

You can no longer kill with thunder from the top. Thunder is now a weak spike that is consistently recoverable until at a very high percent; in other words, it sends you down, but isn't strong enough to gimp until a high percent. The thunder will set up into a combo (upsmash? uair?) if the opponent is hit lower on the bolt.

The base hit thunder (a thunder that hits Pikachu/Pichu), will also not kill until higher percents. I see this having an upward hitbox. I am not sure whether it should be combo able into a bolt hit thunder. Of course, proper hitstun and knock back would have to be tested. This can kill at extremely high percents (170?)

Shorter double jump for a SHFFL-esque QAC. I see this having much combo potential, but in return has a worsened recovery with the shorter DJ. To balance things out even more, 2 or 3 percent self damage on each QA.

Some one mentioned this on the IRC. I'm not sure, but a 3 part QA that has shorter distance on part.

Dtilt that hits up.

A ground hit Dair that sends them up and/or combos into an fsmash.

Fsmash setups are needed, as I think it needs to be similar to Melee, where Fsmash was incredibly good, and probably one of the only consistent ways of killing at a lower percentage.

Basically, I see Pichu as an extremely good damage racker, but when it comes to killing, you have to rely on Fsmash. Killing options from thunder are gone, but thunders now can start combos, combined with better QACs (with a trade off). Of course, usmash will also be able to kill, but to a lesser extent. I also think combos should not stem from uair, or utilt to differentiate them even more.

Also, I have contacted BigSharkz, and making a Pichu is his first priority now. I have him on MSN, and it looks like he says it is very possible.
 

Zantetsu

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I really wasn't for adding any more characters other then Roy but now with the code that changes body part sizes, I'm all for Pichu and Young Link now.

I'd like to see Pichu go somewhere. I'll be watching the thread :)
 

dabridge

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What's with all the character requests? Isn't ~36 enough? Go master one of the characters we already have, jeez. =P
 

goodoldganon

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I'll be upfront. Know that my stance on this doesn't reflect how the backroom or any coders feel. This is me posting as nothing more then another generic poster with coding skill.

Mewtwo is a pipe dream. Lucario plays nothing like Mewtwo and the texture hacks are meh at best. I'm not half assing Mewtwo into the game.

We don't need 3 Links in one game. I don't care if we can still make Y. Link unique, there are other plenty of unique and cool characters to add.

Pichu was a joke character who was only cool because for some bizarre reason he did well against the spacies. Pichu is the Dan Hibiki of the Smash universe. Joke characters are fine and dandy, but there are other new characters we could make that would be a whole lot more interesting and fun. Besides, Pokemon has 7 (or 8 depending if you count Trainer as separate from Indies) reps, that is more then even Mario games. Let's not even forget about the nightmare it would be to get a code that would make him damage himself.

Point is, it's upsetting to ever see characters get replaced, but frankly only two of them could make a comeback to Brawl that is actually worth while. I'd much rather look into adding Dark Samus, Isaac, or some other NEW characters before adding a joke character from Melee days.

Besides, we aren't even sure these guys will be tourney legal. If we end up deciding Roy and Doc are only good for friendlies then I'll help design Pichu if the desire is great enough, but if these clones become legal characters then I'm sorry I'll be diverting my skills to another more deserving character.
 

bajisci

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"Here are changes based off of Melee

Upsmash is weaker than Pikachu's"

wasnt pichus usmash the strongest in the game
 
D

Deleted member

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"Here are changes based off of Melee

Upsmash is weaker than Pikachu's"

wasnt pichus usmash the strongest in the game
Don't know about the strongest, but it was definitely way stronger than Pikachu's.
 

n88

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I agree with goodoldganon on pretty much his entire post. It's ridiculous when people try to replace Lucario w/Mewtwo and I hate to break it to Pichu mains, but Pichu is the most hated character from any Smash game and possibly any fighting game ever, and should not be a priority for hackers. Sad but true.

On Pichu himself..
You want to make the f-smash even stronger? Seems powerful enough to me. Although he will need some killpower to compenste for his super-light weight.
 

goodoldganon

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According to Smash Wiki (basically take with a grain of salt):

U-smash: Pikachu does a back flip. This is the most powerful up smash in the game in terms of knockback, and is extremely quick with decent range. Pikachu's Usmash is extremely versatile,
whether it be setting up juggles or going for a quick low percent KO. Is also good for shieldstabbing.

Looks like Pika had the better U-smash
 

5ive

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Pichu's upsmash is indeed the weaker of the two. That is why Pichu players are so reliant on their incredible fsmash. I advise you guys to check our suggestions for making Pichu unique. We need input on the shorter DJ for a SHFFL QAC and the thunder hitboxes. My personal input: I think this idea is really balanced and well thought out. Not only does it follow my personal idea that Pichu should not kill that, but it makes thunder SOOOO unique. Not to mention SHFFL QAC in exchange for self damage <3
 

superyoshi888

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We aren't asking for this to be top priority for the hackers. Its like Roy and Doc, someone else is working on this alongside whatever else he is working on. Pichu is just a fun thing being added in, nothing more, nothing less.

I originally only thought Roy would be the only possible returning character because of how different Mario is now and how hated Pichu is, but after the Doc returned it is only fair that Pichu gets a chance.
 

5ive

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Yes, or else it might be another Lucario situation where Pichu gets gimped alot. I think the short DJ may be enough to nerf recovery in return for a SHFFL-esque QAC. We might try it though. Storm has yet to contact me though.
 
D

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Guest
I hate to break it to Pichu mains, but Pichu is the most hated character from any Smash game [by me] and possibly any fighting game ever, and should not be a priority for hackers [Because I don't like him]. Sad but true.
Fixed it for you. and no-one is asking for it to be a priority, by the way.
 

bleyva

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I'll be upfront. Know that my stance on this doesn't reflect how the backroom or any coders feel. This is me posting as nothing more then another generic poster with coding skill.

Mewtwo is a pipe dream. Lucario plays nothing like Mewtwo and the texture hacks are meh at best. I'm not half assing Mewtwo into the game.

We don't need 3 Links in one game. I don't care if we can still make Y. Link unique, there are other plenty of unique and cool characters to add.

Pichu was a joke character who was only cool because for some bizarre reason he did well against the spacies. Pichu is the Dan Hibiki of the Smash universe. Joke characters are fine and dandy, but there are other new characters we could make that would be a whole lot more interesting and fun. Besides, Pokemon has 7 (or 8 depending if you count Trainer as separate from Indies) reps, that is more then even Mario games. Let's not even forget about the nightmare it would be to get a code that would make him damage himself.

Point is, it's upsetting to ever see characters get replaced, but frankly only two of them could make a comeback to Brawl that is actually worth while. I'd much rather look into adding Dark Samus, Isaac, or some other NEW characters before adding a joke character from Melee days.

Besides, we aren't even sure these guys will be tourney legal. If we end up deciding Roy and Doc are only good for friendlies then I'll help design Pichu if the desire is great enough, but if these clones become legal characters then I'm sorry I'll be diverting my skills to another more deserving character.
i agree with this dude. not much purpose in wasting time programming a joke character, much less a pathetic turd like pichu.
 

n88

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I agree with goodoldganon on pretty much his entire post. It's ridiculous when people try to replace Lucario w/Mewtwo and I hate to break it to Pichu mains, but Pichu is the most hated character from any Smash game and possibly any fighting game ever, and should not be a priority for hackers [Because I've never met anyone who did like him]. Sad but true.
Is what I should have said. I realize that I'm biased, but there are characters far more popular than Pichu that should get in first. The only thing he really has going for him is his inclusion in Melee. As goodoldganon mantioned, completely new characters such as Dark Samus, Isaac, or maybe Shadow could be added, and they will get a more positive response because they are more popular than Pichu. I wouldn't mind seeing Pichu eventually make it in, and these are good ideas, but I don't want to see Pichu be the next big project for hackers.

And I relize that no-one has come out and said "This should be a priority," but usually when people start talking about things like this, they want it done ASAP.
 

Rudra

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i agree with this dude. not much purpose in wasting time programming a joke character, much less a pathetic turd like pichu.
I think that Pichu may become something more than a joke character this time around (or at least, I would hope so). It doesnt have to be a priority, but I think he at least deserves a shot.
 

Roxas215

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If pichu "looks right" and not just a dumb texture hack(which is why im glad mewtwo wont be made) then i dont care. I mean i dont like pichu but if he is made right for the pichu fans then so be it.

However i think original chars should be looked at 1st. There was a idea for bowser jr a faster smaller more combo oriented bowser. I think that is WAY MORE DESERVING them pichu.
 

5ive

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I actually contacted BigSharkz, the maker of the baby Mario model. He is working on the Pichu right now, and yes, Pikachu is getting resized ^_^.
 

D.B.K.

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Sorry if this is a bit off topic. Has anyone seen what BigSharkZ did to Mario? It would be just as easy to make a Pichu out of Pikachu like that right?

Edit: Nevermind, looks like it's already being done.
 

n88

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Sorry if this is a bit off topic. Has anyone seen what BigSharkZ did to Mario? It would be just as easy to make a Pichu out of Pikachu like that right?
You're just a tad behind...(look up)

And no, it's not off topic.
 

superyoshi888

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That's all fine and dandy if you don't think Pichu is devserving of a spot on the B+ roster, but please don't discuss that here. This is for what changes would be made to Pikachu in order to make a Pichu and, eventually, discussion about Pichu and how to make him be unique but still feel like Pichu.

In other words, get out if you aren't going to help. No need for hostility.
 

storm92

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Pretty much what he said ^.

Listen, as it has been said before on other topics (specifically the Roy and Doc ones), this is my own personal project that I am taking on in addition to what I've been doing in the WBR. It doesn't mean we are diverting any less effort towards B+ and more towards one of these custom projects, it only means I'm taking on extra work because, to be honest, this seemed like a really fun thing to do even if it is only used for friendlies.

Nobody said this was top priority for anyone, and no one said that Pichu would even be involved in the final project. This is simply a fun side project.

Now for the real news- we don't have enough Pikachu hitbox data...to even get started. So right now we're in a waiting stage where the only thing we can do is design his moveset to be different.
What I want to hear from anyone who wishes to help, is unique ideas that could make Pichu stand out, much like Roy has his tipper pull an opponent inwards, Pichu needs something (that doesn't help make him the worst character in the game, like self-damage in Melee).

Edit: 5ive, I also contacted BigSharkZ yesterday as well, I think shortly before you. So he sees the demand is high.
 

superyoshi888

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I had an idea that his electric attacks got stronger the more damage he had, but then I remembered the Thunder. We could still make his non-electric attacks stronger, like Lucario's aura, but maybe the Thunder won't be as much as a problem since you guys are nerfing the power a bit.
 

n88

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This seems like the optimal place to discuss why Pichu shouldn't be in Brawl+ quite yet, but I'll respect that you want to discuss the actual moveset here.

Thunder being a spike sounds like a good idea, but could be almost too good at KO'ing when combined with a powerful U-Smash. About how strong of an U-Smash are we talking here?
 

5ive

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Like I said, WEAK SPIKE. WEAK SPIKE. WEAK.

SPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE.

It should be able to combo into some things, but not so it is terribly over powerred. More ending lag anyone?

I don't think there isn't any reason for Pichu to be in Brawl+. Atleast, when the set comes out, try it before you judge it.
For now, let's discuss some extra changes, along with my suggestions.
 

goodoldganon

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Pretty much what he said ^.

Listen, as it has been said before on other topics (specifically the Roy and Doc ones), this is my own personal project that I am taking on in addition to what I've been doing in the WBR. It doesn't mean we are diverting any less effort towards B+ and more towards one of these custom projects, it only means I'm taking on extra work because, to be honest, this seemed like a really fun thing to do even if it is only used for friendlies.

Nobody said this was top priority for anyone, and no one said that Pichu would even be involved in the final project. This is simply a fun side project.

Now for the real news- we don't have enough Pikachu hitbox data...to even get started. So right now we're in a waiting stage where the only thing we can do is design his moveset to be different.
What I want to hear from anyone who wishes to help, is unique ideas that could make Pichu stand out, much like Roy has his tipper pull an opponent inwards, Pichu needs something (that doesn't help make him the worst character in the game, like self-damage in Melee).

Edit: 5ive, I also contacted BigSharkZ yesterday as well, I think shortly before you. So he sees the demand is high.
Ugh...

but why? Pokemon doesn't need another character. :( I mean, don't we want more then just lame-o melee vets back?

I truly don't know what to give Pichu that Pikachu doesn't already have. Pika has a lot of depth to him, something Marth didn't really have. Hence why it was easy for me to just go' tips are used for control.' I guess I'd look into uping the power of his finishers and then have him always take 1% on his attacks. Should make it so you can't spam a mvoe til you are safe, but he kills really well thanks to his uncontrollable power.

Meh...w/e
 

superyoshi888

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I think they are planning to make the Up smash weaker than it was in Melee. I believe the exact change they wwant to make is on the first page.
 

superyoshi888

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Now for the real news- we don't have enough Pikachu hitbox data...to even get started. So right now we're in a waiting stage where the only thing we can do is design his moveset to be different.
Isn't there a code that shows the hitboxes and stuff? Couldn't someone gather the data if there is?
 

goodoldganon

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Isn't there a code that shows the hitboxes and stuff? Couldn't someone gather the data if there is?
Yes, someone can gather the data, but PK and Almas have a lot more on their plate. Doc and Roy were done early because we wanted their hitbox data so we could edit their original characters some. Basically we double dipped on Marth for example. We got his data so we could nerf his damage and adjust him to be more inline with the cast, I then decided to start work on Roy since I had everything I needed to get started.

Cape has some sort of bizarre man fetish for Mario and has been thinking of new and creative ways to buff Mario (though he really doesn't need it) so he got all of Mario's data gathered over a long period of time.

Ask Giza or PK to gather the Pikachu data but right now we have more important things to work on. (In reference to getting B+ gold, not in reference to Pichu.) We only have full hitbox data on:

  • Mario
  • Link
  • Samus
  • Zelda
  • Sheik
  • ICs
  • Marth
  • Ivy
  • D3
  • Ike
 

Wolf of Ice

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I actually contacted BigSharkz, the maker of the baby Mario model. He is working on the Pichu right now, and yes, Pikachu is getting resized ^_^.
Very good idea. I'm glad I noticed that texture/hack and started spreading it around. I was originally hoping for a Baby Mario moveset, but one Mario 'clone' is enough I suppose.

And to everyone saying other characters are more deserving, you can't really make them work on another character, since they're doing this as an extra. The people doing the work should get to pick who they want to work on IMO. And I'm sure a character they actually want will end up better than a character they don't really want in.


Good luck on this. I never really played Pichu, so I can't help much.
 

superyoshi888

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Yes, someone can gather the data, but PK and Almas have a lot more on their plate. Doc and Roy were done early because we wanted their hitbox data so we could edit their original characters some. Basically we double dipped on Marth for example. We got his data so we could nerf his damage and adjust him to be more inline with the cast, I then decided to start work on Roy since I had everything I needed to get started.

Cape has some sort of bizarre man fetish for Mario and has been thinking of new and creative ways to buff Mario (though he really doesn't need it) so he got all of Mario's data gathered over a long period of time.

Ask Giza or PK to gather the Pikachu data but right now we have more important things to work on. (In reference to getting B+ gold, not in reference to Pichu.) We only have full hitbox data on:

  • Mario
  • Link
  • Samus
  • Zelda
  • Sheik
  • ICs
  • Marth
  • Ivy
  • D3
  • Ike
Alright. We don't want to divert attention away from the most important thing, I guess.
 

Slashy

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Currently I am trying to convince BigSharkZ to refer to Pichu as a female because it bothers me that we never know Pokemon genders (except for Lucario and Pikachu).

BRAWL+ PICHU IS FEMALE AND WE MUST REFER TO HER AS SUCH, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

(which is being normal).
 

NeonTogepi

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Currently I am trying to convince BigSharkZ to refer to Pichu as a female because it bothers me that we never know Pokemon genders (except for Lucario and Pikachu).

BRAWL+ PICHU IS FEMALE AND WE MUST REFER TO HER AS SUCH, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

(which is being normal).
ill try and put a ****** on the texture than. :p
 

Luur3

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Currently I am trying to convince BigSharkZ to refer to Pichu as a female because it bothers me that we never know Pokemon genders (except for Lucario and Pikachu).

BRAWL+ PICHU IS FEMALE AND WE MUST REFER TO HER AS SUCH, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

(which is being normal).
Hehe :)

for the record, Charizard and Squirtle are he's, and Ivysaur is a she
 
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