Pikachu matchup discussion

Ussi said:

tsk, the uair > footstool apparently gets easier the more damage you have cause you're in hitstun longer.. (staleness needed though)

So says the one testing it that is.

main thing doesn't help that Ike gets started at 12%

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• The stage is very short, so Pikachu can't camp for long and dies much earlier;
• Goos absorbs the tjolt and depending on the size of the goo at the main platform, can interrupt the CG;
• The irregularity of the stage might make the Pikachu miss the CG or the death combo;
• The lava helps people with poor recovery like us, interrupt the CG and the death combo;

Persona said:

My approach to Pikachu with Ike is to use Ike's hitbox to your advantage. My friend, who mains Pikachu, and I, maining Ike, have at least 5, 3-stock matches everyday, and I usually win because I manage to stay out of his attack range, and dodge whenever I can. The same goes for playing a CPU, just stay out of his hitbox, shield at the right moment, and Ragnell will cleave Pikachu as easily as it cleaved the Black Knight.

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Nidtendofreak said:

1) CPU experience means NOTHING. If anything, it makes use less likely to take your post seriously.

2) You have very general information there. "Use range and dodge". That means nothing.

3) By the sound of things, your friend sucks. Does he know how to chaingrab? If he doesn't, he's irrelevant to this match-up.

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Ussi said:

You have two key advantages in this MU that saves you from being utterly helpless, RANGE and POWER

Spoiler

What a surprise lol

[/COLOR]

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Umbreon said:

I love the first match. Ike dies @ 101, 96, 105. Kills sonic at 138. Who's the kill character?

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Persona said:

1) CPUs don't have human error, meaning they have perfect timing, and timing for humans can have many variables, such as the reaction time of the controller, and just having the human be too slow. Sure, CPUs may use cheap, unprofessional tactics such as edge guarding, and they may not use the strongest moves, but getting the ability to counter perfect timing is something that's useful.

2) Pikachu's grab isn't as long as Ragnell's reach, which means you can side-step dodge the grab, then do a neutral a combo to put some distance between yourself and the Pikachu, or you can do a forward dodge and get behind the Pikachu and then do the neutral a combo.

3) He does know how to chain-grab, but a chain grab needs a starting grab, and if the Pikachu can't grab you in the first place, how is he going to chain grab you?

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_Sync_ said:

1) CPU's are good only for practicing spacing and what not, even then you could get the same results, even better from actual battle. You say that CPU are incapable of human error, but they are also incapable to think like actual players. Real players shift their play style to meet the situation and adapt; CPU's on the otherhand go for the basics.

2)Again, just because we have range over Pikachu, it means nothing if you can't properly space yourself and if you use any of Ike's slower moves leaving you vulnerable in the end. A good Pikachu, no, a good opponent in general will attempt to bait you into spot dodging or forcing you into situation in which you'll leave yourself open. Spotdodging and roll dodging is alright from time to time, but Pika can always get you with a dsmash or pivot grab (if you're that readable) to punish spot dodging. My point is, yes we have range, but it is upto the player to put it into good use.

3)Pikachu is a quick little critter, so he'll find a way to grab you, infact it's inevitable. If your friend is unable to get passed your defenses, then he himself is probably doing something wrong.

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Nidtendofreak said:

1) Persona, I repeat: Computers. Are. WORTHLESS. Particularly when it comes up to match-ups. They don't know advance techs, don't DI well, have inhuman "reflexes", don't adapt, etc. Anybody who even thinks about bringing them up in a match-up discussion is a complete and utter joke around here. Don't ever mention them again.

2) He also considers chain grabbing a cheap move, despite its popularity. Then he is a scrub and doesn't count for much, if anything, in this match-up discussion.

3) Dash -> shield -> grab = standing grab. It's not hard for Pikachu to CG at all. The whole point of a CG is you can't escape it until a certain %. Meaning that your whole "finding a way to get out" comment is a joke. If you can get out early, your friend can't do an easy CG well at all.

4) By the sounds of things, your friend doesn't always edge guard when he can, or CGing when he can, which is yet another thing that suggests he actually sucks. Post so videos to prove otherwise, because right now he sounds like a scrub that occasionally CGs (poorly) for the heck of it.

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Where's the fun in edge guarding?

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YagamiLight said:

Pikachu

Speed (Running and attack) : *****
Power (Killing moves and damage racking): ***
Range (Priority and hitbox) : ***
Recovery : ****

Character Strengths: Very fast, chaingrabs, great edgeguarder.
Character Weaknesses: Light, low range, low quantity of finishers.

Recommended Counterpick: Luigi's Mansion

Hey you! Pikachu! That pathetic segway brings us to our next character, the lovable rat from Pokemon – Pikachu. Pikachu is a fast, agile character that has electric stun effects, long range projectiles, some disjointed hitboxes, blue goggles and two chaingrabs. It maneuvers itself strategically to inflict damage and finish you off, all in style. Some characters writhe in pain at the sight of this electric rodent. Does Ike? Nah.

There are some things that should be said before we begin a more in-depth overview of Pikachu. First of all, it has Thunder Jolt, a projectile that goes across the screen, bouncing as it does. It can be initiated in the air, though doing so makes it a ball of electricity, instead of a traveling shock. This shock flinches you, and does a fair bit of damage, so either powershield it or jump over it, your choice. Second thing of note is that Pikachu has two chaingrabs to its name. The first is the down throw chaingrab. It racks up to 80% on poor Fox! Ike can just jump out of it, fortunately. However, the second CG, Forward Throw, works on Ike. The timing is strict, but it’s quite some damage if they pull it off. Don’t get grabbed…again. Those will be a main way that Pikachu can rack up damage on you, so just be careful, is all. Pikachu will also attempt to use the Down Smash to rack up a fair bit of damage. Don’t let it do so by DIing upwards, then punishing it. Also avoid its multihit aerials in the same way.

Well, now Pikachu has hit you enough or grabbed you enough or Thunder Jolted you enough that it has decided that your visage annoys it. It has decided to deal a finishing blow on you. It’ll be accomplishing this goal by either edge guarding or simply hitting you with a powerful attack. Thunder will work wonders if you get the timing wrong for Aether or Quick Draw, so avoid that. It can Quick Attack edgeguard to get easy kills and it can also interrupt Aether with QA, but that’s not that bad. If it decides to flat out kill you, it’ll use one of three moves. The Forward Smash has a sweetspot at the base of the attack, but it’s strong, so if you let your spacing down you’re in fun for disappointment. The Nair is fast and kills rather early, same with the Up smash, running or otherwise. Those are the only things that should be killing you, so just keep an eye out and you’ll be safe.

In this match, you’ve got the standard two things going for you. Number one, you outrange Pikachu in everything. Number two; you have more power as well. And there’s the fact that Pikachu is a lightweight. Due to the fact that Pikachu is fast and has a chaingrab, however, you can’t brute force your way through this one. You’ll need to play at a slower tempo than other matches, relying on your Short Hopped Aerials such as the Neutral Air and Forward air to deal damage, head back. The Jab combo and grabs accomplish the same purpose on the ground, as you have a better grab range than Pikachu does. Pikachu might QAC to get close, but it probably won’t due to fear of an Up Smash. To kill Pikachu off, either punish it if it recovering using Skull Bash or find out it’s QA patterns and punish then. Otherwise, I recommend using fully spaced Ftilts and rising Back Aerials to kill it off. If it’s coming down, the Up Air can kill early as well.

To stage counterpick Pikachu, I recommend either Battlefield for neutral stages, as Ike is good there and the platforms help against Pikachu, or you can choose to go Luigi’s Mansion for a true CP. This stage severely helps with all of the things Ike has trouble with in the Pikachu fight, namely the CG and the Thunder Jolt.

This is a battle where you have priorities. Don’t get camped, don’t get grabbed, take advantage of Pikachu’s weaker points and find the opportunities to kill early.

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Guilhe said:

For stage counterpick I would suggest Brinstar for the following reasons:

• The stage is very short, so Pikachu can't camp for long and dies much earlier;

• Goos absorbs the tjolt and, depending on the size of the goo at the main platform, can interrupt the CG;

• The irregularity of the stage might make the Pikachu miss the CG or the death combo;

• The lava helps people with poor recovery like Ike, interrupt the CG and the death combo;

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Ussi] Well said:

Battlefield​

Pros:

• The platfroms prevents thunder from being reflected back at you
• Smaller stage means pikachu will have an easier time killing people.
• Pikachu can go under the stage to avoid edgeguarders and ledge pressure.
• The platforms gives Pikachu more options with QAC.
• Pikachu can usmash through the bottom two platforms.

Cons:

• The flat bottom allows pikachu to CG certain characters, however the stage is really small, so the CG won't last long
• Its a smaller stage, so pikachu dies earlier
• Hitting with a sweetspotted thunder becomes very difficult.
• Many other characters can hit through the platforms.
• You can't full hop tjolts because of platform interferance.

Summary:

This stage isn't good for a defensive pika. The small stage usually means a high pressure and fast paced game. However, for an offensive pika, the platforms + QAC open up a whole new dimension of approaching.

I generally try to stay on the bottom level. Pikachu doesn't do well on platforms, since he can't hit his opponent, but his opponent can hit him.

Rating: 5/10 This stage can be a really good stage for QAC, but since pikachu is better on wide open stages and is not a major platform player, there are better stages for pikachu. Most pika's ban this stage...

Character:

Advantage:

DDD (platforms eliminate anything he can really do to outspace us + CG)
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Disadvantage:

Snake 's utilt will kill you through the platforms. His mines, C4, and Grenades are a pain on this stage. He can camp here and pikachu can't do anything about it.
Marth is also really good on this stage. He can hit you through the platforms as well.
Anyone that can abuse platforms (Olimar's usmash/uair, Zelda's usmash, G&W's nair, etc.)​

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