• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Thorough Frame Data (Updated)

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Notice: Hey guys, I will have this up for a day but the blockstun data was wrong because I tetsed it on Jigglypuff, and not Captain Falcon, and I had forgotten she doesn't crouch for her jump until the second frame, so everything had 1 frame too many.

Hey guys, I decided I will be contributing a little bit to this board since you guys could use some very thorough frame data, if you wanna see what I did for the Jigglypuff boards, just go here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216922

I will not be starting knockback data until everything else is finished if I choose to start it, pictures of these moves in question would be appreciated :).

The duration assumes the attack hits. To calculate it, just remove the hitlag properly, to do this just take the duration, minus the hitlag and add one (there's a frame layover on where the attack hits and the hitlag starts).

Here is the guide:

Diddy Kong Frame Data

Thanks to Teneban for the snapshots.

Key Terms

Hits On
This is the first frame the attack starts to hit on.

Duration
This is the total number of frames the attack lasts.

Hitlag
This is the number of frames of freezeframe animation when an attack connects.

BlockHitStun
This is the number of frames of freezeframe on the animation of a shield when an attack hits it. The shielder does not slide during this time.

Blockstun
This is the number of frames after shield hitlag that the shielder cannot unshield in.

Base Damage
How much the attack does to the opponent at 0% in training.

Jab:

Neutral A
Hits on Frame: 3-4
Duration: 22
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 3%

2nd Jab:

Neutral A
Hits on Frame: 6-7*
Frames you can interrupt jab for second jab:**
With Jab Hitting: 11-35​
Without Jab Hitting: 6-30​
Duration: 25*
Hitlag: 5
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 5
Base Damage: 2%

*This is the number of frames after pressing A, IE, frame 1 is the frame you first press A.
**This is the number of frames after the original jab was pressed.

3rd Jab:

Neutral A
Hits on Frame: 10-11*
Frames you can interrupt 2nd jab for 3rd jab:**
With 2nd Jab hitting: 14-35​
Without 2nd jab hitting: 10-31​
Duration Fastest: 79***
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 5
Base Damage: 2%

*This is the number of frames after pressing A, IE, frame 1 is the frame you first press A.
**This is the number of frames after the second jab was pressed.
***This includes some of the continuous jab, so there is not nearly that much supposed ending lag.

Continuous Jab:

Neutral A
Hits on Frame (Continuous):24, 34, 43, 49, 58, 65, 74...., IE, 24+(10+9+6+9+7+9)+(.10+...)*
Duration After last A pressed: 11-25**
Hitlag: 5
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 5
Base Damage: 2%

*This is based off the time the third attack starts, and since each once is based off each attack hitting, it also doesn't know how long each wave can attack for, just remember that since each has a hitlag of 5, what the attack would be like without hitting the opponent.
**The minimum number is right and it is by releasing A right after you hit the opponent, however, you seem to get 25 frames right before you hit the opponent or a few frames before, this might be slightly off but as an almost certain rule its correct.

Dash Attack:

Dash Attack
Duration: 37
(First Hit)
Hits on Frame: 9-13
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 3%​
(Second Hit)
Hits on Frame: 14-18*
Hitlag: 5
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 5
Base Damage: 2%​
(Third Hit)
Hits on Frame: 20-23**
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 4%​

*This is based off the first attack not hitting, since this has too many pats for it to be effectively shown with it both hitting and without, so I am going to make every move based off the previous attack missing, and since it is a multihit move, it shouldn't matter much.
**This is based off the first and second hit not hitting.

Up Tilt:

Up Tilt
Hits on Frame: 6-12
Duration: 30
Hitlag: 7
Blockstun: 2
Blockhitlag: 7
Base Damage: 7%

Down Tilt:

Down Tilt
Hits on Frame: 4-6
Duration: 24
Hitlag: 7
Blockstun: 2
Blockhitlag: 7
Base Damage: 7%

Front Tilt:

Front Tilt
(Sweetspot)
Hits on Frame: 10-13
Duration: 45
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 11%​
(Sourspot)
Hits on Frame: 10-13
Duration: 44
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 9%​

Up Smash:

Up Smash
Duration: 66
(First Hit)
Hits on Frame: 5-7
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 5%​
(Second Hit)
Hits on Frame: 11-14*
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 5%​
(Third Hit)
Hits on Frame: 18-22**
Hitlag: 7
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 7
Base Damage: 6%​

*This is based off the first attack not hitting, since this has too many pats for it to be effectively shown with it both hitting and without, so I am going to make every move based off the previous attack missing, and since it is a multihit move, it shouldn't matter much.
**This is based off the first and second hit not hitting.

Down Smash:

Down Smash
(Front)
Hits on Frame: 6-7
Duration: 62
Hitlag: 11
Blockstun: 6
Blockhitlag: 11
Base Damage: 16%​
(Back)
Hits on Frame: 15-17
Duration: 60
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 5
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 12%​

Front Smash:

Forward Smash
Duration: 61
(First Hit)
Hits on Frame: 12-13
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 2
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 5%​
(Second Hit)
Hits on Frame: 21-23 (26-28)*
Hitlag: 10
Blockstun: 5
Blockhitlag: 10
Base Damage: 13%​

*The 21-23 is based off if the first hit doesn't hit, and the 26-28 is if the first hit does hit. Obviously, the duration will be based off both hitting.

Back Air:

Backward Aerial
Hits on Frame: 5-8
Duration: 37
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 2
Blockhitlag: 8
Landing Lag: 12
Base Damage: 9%

Front Air:

Forward Aerial
Landing Lag: 30
(Sweetspot)
Hits on Frame: 6-9
Duration: 56
Hitlag: 10
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 10
Base Damage: 14%​
(Sourspot)
Hits on Frame: 10-16
Duration: 55
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 11%​

Neutral Air:

Neutral Aerial
Hits on Frame: 7-8, 10-20
Duration: 55
Hitlag: 7
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 7
Landing Lag: 13
Base Damage: 6%

Up Air:

Upward Aerial
Hits on Frame: 3-7
Duration: 49
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 9
Landing Lag: 21
Base Damage: 11%

Down Air:

Down Aerial
Hits on Frame: 13-15
Duration: 57
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Landing Lag: 30 (4)*
Base Damage: 12%

*This is a very weird move, almost unique in a way. It has much different landing lags for before the hitbox comes out, IE, if you land on frame 12 or before, you get 4 frames of landing lag, but if you land on frame 13 or later (IE, when the hitbox has or would have come out), you get 30 frames of landing lag, which is very significant.

Side Special:

Side Special
Diddy Hump:
Grabs On: 19-32
Duration Without Grab: 43
Jump Attack: *
Duration: 46
(First Hit)
Hits On: 18
Hitlag: 1
Base Damage: 5%​
(Second Hit)
Hits On: 27
Hitlag: 1
Base Damage: 5%​
Bash Attack: **
Duration: 41
(First Hit)
Hits On: 12
Hitlag: 6
Base Damage: 5%​
(Second Hit)
Hits On: 26
Hitlag: 1
Base Damage: 10%​
Monkey Kick: ***
Can Interrupt Diddy Hump for Monkey Kick on: 12-43
Hits on Frame: 4-25
(Sweetspot)
Duration: 41
Hitlag: 10
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 10
Base Damage: 14%​
(Medium Spot)
Duration: 40
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 12%​
(Sourspot)
Duration: 39
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 10%​

*This is based off the frame you press a jump as the first frame.
**This is based off the frame you press an attack button as the first frame.
***Everything in here but the information on when you can interrupt the Diddy Hump for Monkey Kick is based on the frame you press A to start the monkey kick. The interruption data is based on when the Diddy Hump started.


Banana Pull:

Side Special
Duration: 39
Banana Smash:
Sweetspot
Banana Hits On: 20
Hitlag: 7*
Base Damage: 6%​
Midspot
Banana Hits On: 21-22
Hitlag: 6*
Base Damage: 5%​
Sourspot
Banana Hits On: 23-Landing
Hitlag: 6*
Base Damage: 4%**​
Banana Tilt:
Sweetspot
Banana Hits On: 20-21 (or 22-Landing with good spottinga true sweetspot
Hitlag: 6*
Base Damage: 4%​
Sourspot
Banana Hits On: 22-Landing (With true sourspot)**
Hitlag: 6*
Base Damage: 3%​

*Indicates only the opponent is affected by the hitlag. For some weird reason, neither you nor the banana is affected.
**Indicates possible source of error, I did a lot of testing but for some of this stuff there could be issues with it.
 

Le_THieN

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
1,209
Location
Shine Blockaz Central
Totally diggin' it so far, good sir. I remember looking at your Jigglypuff frame data thread sometime ago, and distinctly thinking to myself, "****, I wish we had something that clean-looking." This is a definite sticky.

Also, is there anyone who would be willing to volunteer to take snapshots of moves and upload them here?
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Yeah, that'd be cool if anyone's willing. Its harder for Diddy because of all his IASA frames, so it should take a while to do this well, but I'm gonna go for it all. Jigglypuff is a bit more straight forward lol, she has IASA frames basically for ending and they don't combo into stuff, while Diddy has moves like Monkey hump which can be canceled in so many places for other things, but I'll do it well.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Yep, I'm known for making a few typos early on so yeah, just make sure to read the final data, after a few days its good.I'm currently verifying a bit of it, when its done, its 100% good.

Its called a pause debugger, allows you to input frame by frame.
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Good job :o

Also, is there anyone who would be willing to volunteer to take snapshots of moves and upload them here?
Just did it. Note : I took them with my dvd recorder, and the quality isn't that good, unfortunately. If you still want to use them, I took the jab1 and 2 snapshots too to even it out. you decide :o
If anything is missing, just tell me.
edit : http://img34.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=utilt.png
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Yeah, I'll be sure to use these, but yeah, I'm gonna keep some of my current pictures, especially for jab and continuous jab. Diddy actually throws out his foot on the 10th frame, which is the third jab and the tail for the continuous stuff.

Edit: If I get banned, I'll setup some way for me to post these on a private site. My like 15th infraction in like a month....
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
Wow good job. Im just gonna scratch this section completely from the guide and just add the link. Also, mind if I use the snapshots in the OP illinialex for the guide?
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
Location
:190:
do we pay u for this O.o?


seriously...knowing the frame they hit on is super useful thank you so much!

*goes and researches frames of other chars*
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Aw snap.
illinialex is too good.

Thanks for doing this. This is something we always should've done.
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
Location
:190:
Aw snap.
illinialex is too good.

Thanks for doing this. This is something we always should've done.
but waited until someone ELSE did it for us eh?

procrastination ftw?

good **** though illi =3
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
but waited until someone ELSE did it for us eh?

procrastination ftw?

good **** though illi =3
Meh I don't mind. Vyse, you know your **** well so there is no way I'd bother you for not doing this lol

Oh and Monkey Kick is a very weird move, its the only move I know of reallky that has sweetspots solely based off the placing of the attack and not the timing, so many "sweetspots" in Brawl are based off hitting it with the initial frames, this isnt.
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
Location
:190:
good or bad thing xD? but where is the exact sweet spot of the kick? just u know, for reference usages =P i know me sweetspots through timing of that insane b button lol
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
good or bad thing xD? but where is the exact sweet spot of the kick? just u know, for reference usages =P i know me sweetspots through timing of that insane b button lol
Good thing, you can get good damage if you hit them with the front foot over them, near the far side of their body. Near the middle is medium power, and near you is weak. So if you can spot your kick to go to the far end, you can get real damage well.
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
Location
:190:
im more into knockback than damage.

so i actually get more % if my front foot is over their general body or just being above them such as the characters head?
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
im more into knockback than damage.

so i actually get more % if my front foot is over their general body or just being above them such as the characters head?
Yeah, and that should mean more knockback as well, I haven't done that yet but it should be considering you get more damage, and more hitlag, it should have more knockback but I can't be sure yet. Yeah, I did this on Jigglypuff and I'll show you the 3 pictures:





Notice the difference in positioning of the front foot.
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
5,582
Location
:190:
is the maximum dmg for side b 14-15% btw? and does it not diminish like its "hump" part?? i never truly bothered with this till it came to my attention sorry to be a bother
 

Coyn3Masta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
355
Location
NJ
Is there any particular way to use the side b kick to make someone trip...like having the trip guaranteed, or is it just some random force trip, because i noticed that you could trip with it.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Is there any particular way to use the side b kick to make someone trip...like having the trip guaranteed, or is it just some random force trip, because i noticed that you could trip with it.
I could test that out, I think its a particular knockback mainly.

And yeah, the maximum from many attempts was 14% yeah, which could be 15% rounded up,
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
Can you find the frame data for side-b kick cancel? I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think it's the timing that you activate the kick. What happens is that kick part of the side-b comes out immediately instead of the regular side-b coming out, if you're doing it right then you should be able to airdodge before you hit the ground and cancel the landing lag of the kick.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Can you find the frame data for side-b kick cancel? I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think it's the timing that you activate the kick. What happens is that kick part of the side-b comes out immediately instead of the regular side-b coming out, if you're doing it right then you should be able to airdodge before you hit the ground and cancel the landing lag of the kick.
Sure, you reminded me too to get its landing lag.
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
Also, can you check if we can buffer the kick? And if yeah, on which frames? That would make side-b kick cancelling so much easier.
Great job so far man :)
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Ok guys I did a lot of testing, none of frames but very useful data:

There is almost no pattern on what makes the monkey kick trip, but there is a slight one, if you come from the top and hit them more so at a certain angle coming into the ground, they will trip more often.

Also, using a fair at the top of a jump right before you start to fall or right after (IE, the frame after you start falling) is safe for a fair, but any ways after, you are in danger, you will land on your back and get the 30 frame land lag.
 

illinialex24

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
7,489
Location
Discovered: Sending Napalm
Im assuming you tested with a SH, right?
Yep, not a FH. We were talking about SHFF Fair, and peak fair, and most people don't full hop that stuff. Yeah, so if you use it right at the end or on the rise, your safe, it makes it so you can be punished on the way down but you get minimal landing lag.

Oh and I'm gonna be gone until Monday so yeah, I'll do Uair and Nair then.
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
Ok thanks.

I have another question;
How long are you during the air during a SHFF because it would really help with knowing who can be single naner locked or even infinited if we find their trip data too.
 
Top Bottom