-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Yoshi v. Pokémon Trainer
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
Sulfur
Smash Apprentice
Yoshi is good at hurting people and so is squirtle so it's pretty much even...
Anyway, I wouldn't mind actually reading this if someone would start a discussion??
Anyway, I wouldn't mind actually reading this if someone would start a discussion??
D
Deleted member
Guest
Uhh I've only played typh in friendlies, hopefully ill play him in tourny this week.
From what i saw, squirtle is the hardest, then ivy, then zard.
Zard sucks except rock smash
From what i saw, squirtle is the hardest, then ivy, then zard.
Zard sucks except rock smash
can't you chaingrab squirtle into gauranteed spike? he's one of the few characters that i seem to be able to do it to every single time. i'm highly interested in this matchup as I see PT as the only threat to yoshi in low tier tourneys. I have no problem with any of the other 'low tier' matchups.
T-block
B2B TST
I don't like Squirtle here =\ Squirtle has a hard time approaching a defensive Yoshi thanks to eggs and pivot grabs, and once he does get grabbed Yoshi has air release gayness. Yoshi can compete with Squirtle in the air too, and he can take advantage Squirtle's recovery pretty well. I think Ivysaur actually does better than Squirtle here. Razor Leaf helps against the eggs, and then we can outspace Yoshi pretty will with tilts and aerials. I think Charizard does fine as well, with the biggest issue being getting around eggs. Flamethrower and Rock Smash are really cool here, as always. I can only see Charizard being disadvantaged here if the stage is really small or cramped, like Brinstar or Luigi's Mansion.
bigman40
Smash Master
I'll make some input here in a little bit. I have things to do. So if I double post, don't infract me cause no one will be looking at the post if there's nothing new right now >___>
I think Charizard is probably the hardest one, depending on the style of Squirtle.A reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally patient Yoshi won't lose to Squirtle that easily, but no amount of patience really impairs Charizard too much. His grab game is really good, I'm a big fan of his tilts (all of them), and he's got lots of good keepaway moves like back air and upsmash. Charizard is really good at lots of passive damage (grabs, flamethrower, jab combo, etc.) and can use his keepaway moves to reset and add extra damage until he's ready for his game ender. Airdodging means you catch the nasty forward smash (a move I am really a fan of) and a bad spotdodge means you're eating rocks for dinner.
Pokémon Trainer is fun when they actually fight and don't run away and peck at you all day.
Ivysaur would seem like she's not a terrible threat because of how neutral air beats her so badly offstage, but onstage and especially on stages with large main platforms, she is very self-sustaining with her close range game and it can be almost annoying. If Sheik builds damage for Zelda to KO, I would imagine Ivysaur builds damage for Charizard to KO (or Squirtle to try to KO, which does happen).
I may be wrong. I haven't played Typh or Reflex, so I essentially don't know what I'm talking about, LOL.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I usually have a lot more of a problem with Ivy (is it a girl? O.o) than the other two. I tend to get really messed up from Razor Leaf and fair. I've been hit into Bullet Seed more times than I'd like to admit. Forward tilt is also annoying. Fair has some serious kill power to it, and Ivy's got a decent grab. Not really sure what to do against Ivy.
Zard isn't that bad for me. You just gotta be really careful for the kill moves, since a lot of the moves can kill. Bair and the actual knockback part of fair are nice, and ftilt is decent too. Smashes are strong and he's got a grab game. I do find myself playing a lot of defense here, but you can really do some damage in the air if you get him into a favorable position.
I like to grab Squirtle. It makes me happy. He can't really do much if we're patient. Defensive game is good here.
But I haven't played any well known PTs so please correct me on any point I'm wrong at.
Zard isn't that bad for me. You just gotta be really careful for the kill moves, since a lot of the moves can kill. Bair and the actual knockback part of fair are nice, and ftilt is decent too. Smashes are strong and he's got a grab game. I do find myself playing a lot of defense here, but you can really do some damage in the air if you get him into a favorable position.
I like to grab Squirtle. It makes me happy. He can't really do much if we're patient. Defensive game is good here.
But I haven't played any well known PTs so please correct me on any point I'm wrong at.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Squirtle definately one of the top 5 hardest characters to grab, so definately dont expect to be getting that CG to spike. Yoshi can do well if he plays patiently, but eggs are a no no, and squritle can get in really fast.
Its very similar to wario, except wario dies from a grab
Its very similar to wario, except wario dies from a grab
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Yeah, eggs against Squirtle aren't good. He moves too well in the air and can get us in the lag.
I haven't played any good PTs, so I'm not sure on grabbing Squirtle. I do imagine it'd be hard though since he can dance in the air. The Spike is guaranteed on the release, right? So if he's at a decent enough percentage a grab should be death too.
I haven't played any good PTs, so I'm not sure on grabbing Squirtle. I do imagine it'd be hard though since he can dance in the air. The Spike is guaranteed on the release, right? So if he's at a decent enough percentage a grab should be death too.
Poltergust
Smash Master
I thought that Squirtle was our best match-up?
I know that he's pretty hard to grab, but it really doesn't change the fact that one grab = death at pretty much any percentage over 40%.
I do admit that he's annoying in the air, though. However, I think that the PT player is better off switching immediately to Ivysaur once they get the chance.
I know that he's pretty hard to grab, but it really doesn't change the fact that one grab = death at pretty much any percentage over 40%.
I do admit that he's annoying in the air, though. However, I think that the PT player is better off switching immediately to Ivysaur once they get the chance.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
I agree that PT will most likely want to switch Squirtle out for Ivysaur here. t-block up there started doing this during our second match, and that easily made our matches much closer. He even told me that Ivysaur was usually his weakest pokemon of the three. X[
There isn't a whole lot I can add here, as t-block summarized our matches to a tee (sorry for the pun), and a lot of what Delta said is consistant with what I experienced of the match-up from Yoshi's point of view. I haven't seen any statements that occured to me as illogical, so I really can't contribute much more. So, I'll just lurk some more and see what happens.
As a side-note, if Charmeleon was one of the useable pokemon, I totally would've used Pokemon Trainer as a secondary.
There isn't a whole lot I can add here, as t-block summarized our matches to a tee (sorry for the pun), and a lot of what Delta said is consistant with what I experienced of the match-up from Yoshi's point of view. I haven't seen any statements that occured to me as illogical, so I really can't contribute much more. So, I'll just lurk some more and see what happens.
As a side-note, if Charmeleon was one of the useable pokemon, I totally would've used Pokemon Trainer as a secondary.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Squirtle can be annoying, I just don't think he's a large threat. I think Ivy is the biggest problem for Yoshi out of the three. I just want to hear what others have to say because I don't really have much other than what I said already.
We're all quite nocturnal, aren't we?
We're all quite nocturnal, aren't we?
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Oh, you have no idea. I think 20 of my posts were made last night between midnight and 4:30 AM. Since it's the summer time, it's going to get really bad for me; I'll probably end up going to bed as the sun rises on a regular basis. We may end up doing our wi-fi battles at 3 in the morning or something silly like that...
...Sorry, back on topic. We can do well against Squirtle by playing defensively, but we still need to be careful around him, especially if he's as difficult to grab as some are saying. If that's the case, we'll need to be able to switch between defensive and aggressive play to keep Squirtle from getting in our faces. Jab is good for retaining control after missed pivot grabs. Bair and tilts seem to me to be really useful here, and of course, Usmash is a great anti-air tactic, as always.
...Sorry, back on topic. We can do well against Squirtle by playing defensively, but we still need to be careful around him, especially if he's as difficult to grab as some are saying. If that's the case, we'll need to be able to switch between defensive and aggressive play to keep Squirtle from getting in our faces. Jab is good for retaining control after missed pivot grabs. Bair and tilts seem to me to be really useful here, and of course, Usmash is a great anti-air tactic, as always.
bigman40
Smash Master
Yoshi vs Squirtle go even respectively. He's very quick, and can easily combo us. We have CG to spike and can at least keep up the speed to fight back. If a Yoshi isn't spacing his aerials, then you can trade hits with us, or even poke us with Squirtle's aerials.
Yoshi vs Ivysaur is probably the most toughest matchup if the player knows how to handle Ivy well. Ivy has the range to keep us away, and has excellent OoS options to make us screwed for not spacing (Nair and Bullet Seed are extra dangerous). We'll be taking very nasty damage (at LEAST 30% if the opponent doesn't mess up) just from not spacing well.
On the same look of it, if we wait for the right time to push in with aerials or grabs. When you get Ivy in the air, you need to be able to keep constant pressure w/o getting careless of the range she has. Then when you get close to the edge, Bair WoP Ivy to get a sufficient gimp kill.
Charizard is just gay lol. Rock smash can **** spotdodges, **** appraoches, **** lots of stuff. Pivot grabs bearly outrange it, but it's not consistent. If you are seeing them abuse Rock Smash then stay away until you can get a chance to get close for quality damage. If he tries to grab you (which they try a good amount of times from about mid-close range) then make sure you dodge it, and pressure that shield. yoshi's should be attempting to get Charizard into the air so we can punish and pressure from below. Chairzard's weakest spot for us to apply good pressure onto. Other than that, you should be playing a more hit and run tactic on him.
This matchup is very even when it comes down to it, but if you let Squirtle get the best of you, then you'll easily fall later in the match.
Yoshi vs Ivysaur is probably the most toughest matchup if the player knows how to handle Ivy well. Ivy has the range to keep us away, and has excellent OoS options to make us screwed for not spacing (Nair and Bullet Seed are extra dangerous). We'll be taking very nasty damage (at LEAST 30% if the opponent doesn't mess up) just from not spacing well.
On the same look of it, if we wait for the right time to push in with aerials or grabs. When you get Ivy in the air, you need to be able to keep constant pressure w/o getting careless of the range she has. Then when you get close to the edge, Bair WoP Ivy to get a sufficient gimp kill.
Charizard is just gay lol. Rock smash can **** spotdodges, **** appraoches, **** lots of stuff. Pivot grabs bearly outrange it, but it's not consistent. If you are seeing them abuse Rock Smash then stay away until you can get a chance to get close for quality damage. If he tries to grab you (which they try a good amount of times from about mid-close range) then make sure you dodge it, and pressure that shield. yoshi's should be attempting to get Charizard into the air so we can punish and pressure from below. Chairzard's weakest spot for us to apply good pressure onto. Other than that, you should be playing a more hit and run tactic on him.
This matchup is very even when it comes down to it, but if you let Squirtle get the best of you, then you'll easily fall later in the match.
T-block
B2B TST
God you all use so many different colours.
Eggs definitely do their job against Squirtle. As long as you're not spamming only eggs, the mixed egg toss with Yoshi's other defensive moves make approaching a lot more difficult. Squirtle is actually on the slow side when it comes to dash speed, so it's actually pretty safe when you're smart about it. Squirtle does have the advantage in the air, but it's definitely not one-sided. It doesn't help that Squirtle gets KO'd pretty early here. u-air, f-smash, u-smash can all kill before 100% =( It's the threat of u-smash and grab that makes approaching so hard.
Yeah the Ivysaur matchup is very dependent on spacing. B-air, f-tilt, d-tilt, Razor Leaf, and f-air are all really useful against Yoshi since they all outrange a lot of his moves. When you do get in close Yoshi has to watch out for Bullet Seed punish, although honestly, Yoshi shouldn't get hit that hard by Bullet Seed since he's relatively small and falls pretty slowly.
I think Charizard has the advantage here too. Any aerial approach is at risk of being shield-grabbed even if it autocancels since you can't exactly shield and roll out. Then, there's Flamethrower and Rock Smash too. Honestly, this matchup would be so **** for Charizard if Yoshi didn't have egg toss.
Overall I'd say Yoshi goes 60:40 over Squirtle, 40:60 against Ivysaur, 45:55 against Charizard, so 45:55 against PT. Firefly I'd be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this matchup after our games
Eggs definitely do their job against Squirtle. As long as you're not spamming only eggs, the mixed egg toss with Yoshi's other defensive moves make approaching a lot more difficult. Squirtle is actually on the slow side when it comes to dash speed, so it's actually pretty safe when you're smart about it. Squirtle does have the advantage in the air, but it's definitely not one-sided. It doesn't help that Squirtle gets KO'd pretty early here. u-air, f-smash, u-smash can all kill before 100% =( It's the threat of u-smash and grab that makes approaching so hard.
Yeah the Ivysaur matchup is very dependent on spacing. B-air, f-tilt, d-tilt, Razor Leaf, and f-air are all really useful against Yoshi since they all outrange a lot of his moves. When you do get in close Yoshi has to watch out for Bullet Seed punish, although honestly, Yoshi shouldn't get hit that hard by Bullet Seed since he's relatively small and falls pretty slowly.
I think Charizard has the advantage here too. Any aerial approach is at risk of being shield-grabbed even if it autocancels since you can't exactly shield and roll out. Then, there's Flamethrower and Rock Smash too. Honestly, this matchup would be so **** for Charizard if Yoshi didn't have egg toss.
Overall I'd say Yoshi goes 60:40 over Squirtle, 40:60 against Ivysaur, 45:55 against Charizard, so 45:55 against PT. Firefly I'd be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this matchup after our games
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
I think playing more matches would give us both a much better feel for this match-up, myself. We only played 3 matches, and while they were good ones, I think most of it was learning each other's playstyles and becoming accustomed to what works and what doesn't. The next time we play, we'll know what to expect, and we'll have more concrete strategies and a better appreciation for the capabilities of each other's characters. That should be interesting. =]
I think the biggest problem for me is your Ivysaur; I completely underestimated his range and spacing capabilites, and I just kind of stumbled through that part of the match hoping to take a stock off so I could move on to Charizard. It may not be a much better match-up, but I had a better idea of what to do there. Those vines aren't easy to see, especially on stages with dark, busy backgrounds like Castle Siege, so that bodes ill for people still trying to get a handle on just how far they can go. I basically had to egg toss and wait for something I could punish, get in close, and start building up damage.
Charizard seemed like more of the same, except with less vines and more...Rock Smash. I seem to remember doing a pivot grab, missing because I wasn't close enough, and getting a faceful of rock in return, even though you had started the move before I went for the grab. >_< I've simply had a bit more experience with that moveset, so I knew what to expect, and the large target is fun to play with. I don't believe Charizard has any good, quick combo-breaking aerials, so once I could get him off the ground, I was able to get a good number of tilts/aerials/Usmashes in to build up some solid damage. Then, I could retreat and pepper you with more eggs.
Again, these are just my experiences, and I look forward to playing this again to get a better idea of how this match works. This is a pretty fun match-up IMO.
I think the biggest problem for me is your Ivysaur; I completely underestimated his range and spacing capabilites, and I just kind of stumbled through that part of the match hoping to take a stock off so I could move on to Charizard. It may not be a much better match-up, but I had a better idea of what to do there. Those vines aren't easy to see, especially on stages with dark, busy backgrounds like Castle Siege, so that bodes ill for people still trying to get a handle on just how far they can go. I basically had to egg toss and wait for something I could punish, get in close, and start building up damage.
Charizard seemed like more of the same, except with less vines and more...Rock Smash. I seem to remember doing a pivot grab, missing because I wasn't close enough, and getting a faceful of rock in return, even though you had started the move before I went for the grab. >_< I've simply had a bit more experience with that moveset, so I knew what to expect, and the large target is fun to play with. I don't believe Charizard has any good, quick combo-breaking aerials, so once I could get him off the ground, I was able to get a good number of tilts/aerials/Usmashes in to build up some solid damage. Then, I could retreat and pepper you with more eggs.
Again, these are just my experiences, and I look forward to playing this again to get a better idea of how this match works. This is a pretty fun match-up IMO.
I JUST WANT TO SAY--
Yoshi DOES NOT have chaingrab to spike on Squirtle until about 70%. Because Yoshi slides so much on his running grab, you can break out of the grab while Yoshi slides off more-or-less with you. I'm not sure how close in general it would be, but since Squirtle breaks out in 29 frames, if he's close enough, it could be a guaranteed footstool for SQUIRTLE on the first possible frame.
Also, if you're at a number about half of that, damage-wise, you should be able to break out without air-releasing. I know that for a fact, at least with Squirtle.
So, please--stop citing the chaingrab as a gamebreaker against Squirtle. It's not that big of a deal. Squirtle is far and away the best Pokemon for the PT player in this matchup.
Yoshi DOES NOT have chaingrab to spike on Squirtle until about 70%. Because Yoshi slides so much on his running grab, you can break out of the grab while Yoshi slides off more-or-less with you. I'm not sure how close in general it would be, but since Squirtle breaks out in 29 frames, if he's close enough, it could be a guaranteed footstool for SQUIRTLE on the first possible frame.
Also, if you're at a number about half of that, damage-wise, you should be able to break out without air-releasing. I know that for a fact, at least with Squirtle.
So, please--stop citing the chaingrab as a gamebreaker against Squirtle. It's not that big of a deal. Squirtle is far and away the best Pokemon for the PT player in this matchup.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
The CG is still free damage and even if you're ground breaking it consistently, we can still get an usmash out of it for damage. The grab is still helpful, even if we're not guaranteed a kill out of it until later.
If I'm ground-breaking it, you get a single pummel of damage, and I get a free jab. I don't see what you mean.The CG is still free damage and even if you're ground breaking it consistently, we can still get an usmash out of it for damage. The grab is still helpful, even if we're not guaranteed a kill out of it until later.
bigman40
Smash Master
Dang. I forgot about the grab release that Squirtle has. Does he have it on Yoshi too? Also, Reflex is right about the CG > spike. It's not useful until it gets to a point where they won't be able to break the grabs at a consistent rate. Although, now that I think about it, we can go for the grab and not pummel to get the air release and just Usmash to get in chip damage.
Overall, if Yoshi can't keep up with the speed and pressure that Squirtle can deal out, then most of the match is already gone towards your loss.
Overall, if Yoshi can't keep up with the speed and pressure that Squirtle can deal out, then most of the match is already gone towards your loss.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Reflex is absolutely right about the CG to spike. There are quite a few PTs down here in FL, and I haven't got them in the spike until about 80-ish%, and although they are good, they are not the calibur Reflex is. Also, he is quite knowledgeable in the matchup as his brother, Elev8, seconds (or semi-mains) Yoshi.
I wish I could've played him when he came down to FL in March. Reflex, next time you come down to Florida, let's get some friendlies.
I wish I could've played him when he came down to FL in March. Reflex, next time you come down to Florida, let's get some friendlies.
Squirtle gets a single jab; just DI'ing away allows you to get away from a grab-release -> jab combo. However, if Yoshi releases Squirtle that way, it's no problem for Squirtle to land the jab combo.
bigman40
Smash Master
Alright. Hey, you going to the South East Battles on August 1st? We can try to play there since you're heading to Genesis. We still have our rematch to do
Yeah, that should work.Alright. Hey, you going to the South East Battles on August 1st? We can try to play there since you're heading to Genesis. We still have our rematch to do
I plan on getting my revenge! I really know my stuff now!
Poltergust
Smash Master
Wait... there are PT players in Florida? I haven't even seen one. I don't have any match-up experience with Squirtle or Charizard at all (I do have a little bit of Ivysaur experience due to hacks, but not enough to comment on this match-up).
I want to play against Reflex, too... I know! He should come to Florida Gaming in August! (and so should you, Scatz
)
Jiggy
Smash Apprentice
Charizard is the hardest here, especially if he time the rock smash perfectly >_>
Darn Rock Smash <_<
Darn Rock Smash <_<