infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I pity the Fuu
-
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Sexy Poses!: An In-Depth Move Analysis for Zelda - Move #18-20, 22 Up/Down B, Dash A
- Thread starter JigglyZelda003
- Start date
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Bair is a good OOS punish. You never want to just throw this move out there because of how insanely easy it is to punish. However, if you can get a good read on your opponent the move because better and better. Also if you're good with nair then you can use this to combo from nair and dtilt.
What else can be said... lightning kicks are lethal but difficult to land and are not reliable. Think the "lightning" part of the kick is 1 frame and has a small hitbox.
Bair is a decent OoS option and obviously faster/easier to land than fair. 4 frames startup for bair, and 7 for fair.
Learning to land fairs is still helpful... if there ever is an opportunity to punish but not enough time to get behind and bair.
What else... on larger characters it's easier to land a dtilt to lightning kick combo. Power shield is a huge problem for lightning kicks. Zelda still receives the freeze frames but the opponent doesn't making her easy to punish.
Bair is a decent OoS option and obviously faster/easier to land than fair. 4 frames startup for bair, and 7 for fair.
Learning to land fairs is still helpful... if there ever is an opportunity to punish but not enough time to get behind and bair.
What else... on larger characters it's easier to land a dtilt to lightning kick combo. Power shield is a huge problem for lightning kicks. Zelda still receives the freeze frames but the opponent doesn't making her easy to punish.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
well just wondering if anyone had any interesting finds w/ either move other than what most of us already know.
i don't remember how big the sweetspot is although i believe its bigger than Dair's sweetspot
Hm, sourspots trip at high percents? Sourspots also stale sweetspots. There honestly isn't too much going on for Zelda's side aerials.
AyatoK26
Smash Journeyman
I'm sure we all know this but don't ever, EVER approach with either move. Save it for killing.
OOS b-airing twice is often overlooked imo.
Not much else to explain on these moves that haven't been explained already.
OOS b-airing twice is often overlooked imo.
Not much else to explain on these moves that haven't been explained already.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
updated. just 4 more moves guys :D
Hm I will keep the 2nd point in mind.
Dtilt is amazing. Stops the opponent and allows for a followup if it's quick such as dsmash or a grab. Semi-locks at mid percents, and pops the opponent and possibly allows for a KO followup at high percents. Also trips at a 40% rate which is always nice. A combo that I wish I could land more would be (at very early %) a dtilt -> ftilt -> up smash. At higher percents, Zelda can dtilt -> lightning kick the bulkier characters (timing/good execution required).
Dtilt also has the strange quality of spiking airborne opponents... Dtilt also has a small disjoint.
Clanks with many projectiles such as Pikachu's jolts and Lucario's half-charged Aura Spheres.
On to Fsmash now. Decent for "spacing" on those unfamiliar with the matchup. It can be SDI'd out of but luckily followups to Fsmash escapes are possible depending on the sdi. Disjointed move, transcendent, and it can shield poke. It's safer than ftilt (less lag) and has some KO potential if fresh though this move is used quite a bit.
I'm not sure what else to say. Fsmash is just... an attack with some range but is also escapable.
dtilt's range is lacking.
I use it on people sitting on the ledge.
I use it on people sitting on the ledge.
Hello, you people have never seen me around here, but I main Zelda too (I just like Ness more as a character lol).
Interesting thread! I wanna give out my two cents on those moves.
D-tilt is probably one of her best moves, since people unfamiliar with the matchup probably dwon't expect it. I've found locking is easier on smaller characters for some reason, although with smaller characters it also means it will stop having insta-combo potential after 130ish (which could happen with some of the faster lightweights
).
However, as good as it is, I try to keep it as a surprise attack. Like it's been said before, d-smash is the panic move of choice after a spot-dodge or when enemies get a little bit too close, same as NL, but sometimes you can throw a d-tilt there too, and it could lead straight into an usmash or utilt KO. This can be kinda situational though :C.
F-smash is good for spacing, as it's been said before, but I've also found that how easy it is to escape it depends on the character (same for usmash). Marth, Ness and Lucas will almost always escape both attacks, while the heavier characters obviously have a harder time doing so. I'd say against those three it's better to space with NL than fsmash. It's also her most damaging smash (at least when dsmash doesn't dual-hit) if all hits connect.
F-smash is really good when playing doubles, specially when you're paired up with characters who have a slow but powerful finisher, like the PK kids or Ike. In recent experience I've found that Zelda does kinda well as a support character in doubles because of how much her attacks can keep the opponent in the same place. Usmash is good for that too but it puts the opponent a bit higher and some characters can't reach there in a pinch.
Interesting thread! I wanna give out my two cents on those moves.
D-tilt is probably one of her best moves, since people unfamiliar with the matchup probably dwon't expect it. I've found locking is easier on smaller characters for some reason, although with smaller characters it also means it will stop having insta-combo potential after 130ish (which could happen with some of the faster lightweights
). However, as good as it is, I try to keep it as a surprise attack. Like it's been said before, d-smash is the panic move of choice after a spot-dodge or when enemies get a little bit too close, same as NL, but sometimes you can throw a d-tilt there too, and it could lead straight into an usmash or utilt KO. This can be kinda situational though :C.
F-smash is good for spacing, as it's been said before, but I've also found that how easy it is to escape it depends on the character (same for usmash). Marth, Ness and Lucas will almost always escape both attacks, while the heavier characters obviously have a harder time doing so. I'd say against those three it's better to space with NL than fsmash. It's also her most damaging smash (at least when dsmash doesn't dual-hit) if all hits connect.
F-smash is really good when playing doubles, specially when you're paired up with characters who have a slow but powerful finisher, like the PK kids or Ike. In recent experience I've found that Zelda does kinda well as a support character in doubles because of how much her attacks can keep the opponent in the same place. Usmash is good for that too but it puts the opponent a bit higher and some characters can't reach there in a pinch.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
hello Fern thanks for contributing. :D
last 3 moves are up now. also the move#22 is for her other actions such as ledge attack and weapon attack as they aren't her main attack moves and don't feel they need a separate discussion.
after this week (as i am having some other problems going on) i'll begin the write ups. i'm hoping by the end of this month i have them done and the rediscussions can begin :D especially for older moves.
Edit: i forgot to list that we discussed jab, and until i locate when it was discussed it will be listed as move #21 for now. but you don't have to talk about if you don't want too. Dash Attack, Faroes, Transform, and other actions
last 3 moves are up now. also the move#22 is for her other actions such as ledge attack and weapon attack as they aren't her main attack moves and don't feel they need a separate discussion.
after this week (as i am having some other problems going on) i'll begin the write ups. i'm hoping by the end of this month i have them done and the rediscussions can begin :D especially for older moves.
Edit: i forgot to list that we discussed jab, and until i locate when it was discussed it will be listed as move #21 for now. but you don't have to talk about if you don't want too. Dash Attack, Faroes, Transform, and other actions
Aw there's way too many things to discuss this time! I'll briefly discuss whatever is left.
Farores: Beginning ribbons around Zelda can shield her from very minor projectiles like turnips and grenades (not the explosion). High start/end lag. Predictable, punishable, single direction, requires precision. Farore's boost can be useful for mindgaming. Also, there's the Farore's Wind ledge cancel. I'm sure we all know what this is but use it sparingly as it is heavily predictable since it is activated in certain spots.
Transform: (Copying this from the Zelda guide) But before I do, Zelda can move downward diagonally while transforming. Method is the same as a diagonal love drop.
Zelda is able to transform into her alter ego, Sheik of the Sheikah (lol). Keep in mind that you are completely immune to all attacks (including final smashes) for the duration of transform. However, you are vulnerable the moment the transformation is done so use Transform safely and smartly. The duration of transform depends entirely on the Wii. Consequently, if there is already a Sheik in the match, the transformation time is greatly reduced. (This is also the case when Sheik transforms to Zelda, with an existing Zelda.) Usually, when the opponent is being Star KO'd, there is enough time to transform and charge up Sheik's needles.
An interesting fact about this move is that when done in the water, Zelda's / Sheik's drowning timer resets. Also, Zelda / Sheik can not lose a stock while transforming (including passing a blastline). Finally, Transforming completely refreshes all moves which is something to take advantage of when there's an opportunity to do this.
Dash Attack: A decent move. Sweetspot hits completely upwards (useful at high %), and sourspots are useful at lower percents. Allows for 1-2 more dash attacks. Decent panic move. I think the move itself is fairly quick but can be predictable if used too often. Not sure what to add about this one.
Jab: Quite a slow move. Multi hit, disjointed, transcendent. Capable of stopping Spacies' side b if timed correctly. Very weak damage, weak knockback and SDI-able. At lower percents, it can combo into a dash attack or grab. I think JZ mentioned it has very good IASA frames and I agree. Jab to down smash is AMAZING shield pressure.
Spotdodge/Forward Roll/Back Roll:: The same as the majority of the cast. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Air Dodge: Second worst "tier" in the game, but 1/3 of the characters share this same air dodge. 10 wasted frames compared to the better 1/3 of the characters. (Aside: Lol @ Peach's air dodge)
Grabs: Slow and punishable. Very excellent grabbing range though, useful after landing a dtilt. Dash grabs can be useful, but punishable if you miss (useful after jab). Pivot grabs are good for reads and catching the opponent off guard.
Pummel: Disjointed, transcendent, powerful. It's slow and not many can be landed before a grab release. Using it immediately after a grab is always an option (usually not resulting in a grab release).
Ledge attack: Rather quick, but it's something I don't use too often. Zelda has better defensive options imo. 100%+ ledge attack is slow and jumping back on to the ledge or hopping off are better options for her.
Trip/Standing Attack: Transcendent and disjointed. Fairly quick and good for being unpredictable with. Not to be overused.
Farores: Beginning ribbons around Zelda can shield her from very minor projectiles like turnips and grenades (not the explosion). High start/end lag. Predictable, punishable, single direction, requires precision. Farore's boost can be useful for mindgaming. Also, there's the Farore's Wind ledge cancel. I'm sure we all know what this is but use it sparingly as it is heavily predictable since it is activated in certain spots.
Transform: (Copying this from the Zelda guide) But before I do, Zelda can move downward diagonally while transforming. Method is the same as a diagonal love drop.
Zelda is able to transform into her alter ego, Sheik of the Sheikah (lol). Keep in mind that you are completely immune to all attacks (including final smashes) for the duration of transform. However, you are vulnerable the moment the transformation is done so use Transform safely and smartly. The duration of transform depends entirely on the Wii. Consequently, if there is already a Sheik in the match, the transformation time is greatly reduced. (This is also the case when Sheik transforms to Zelda, with an existing Zelda.) Usually, when the opponent is being Star KO'd, there is enough time to transform and charge up Sheik's needles.
An interesting fact about this move is that when done in the water, Zelda's / Sheik's drowning timer resets. Also, Zelda / Sheik can not lose a stock while transforming (including passing a blastline). Finally, Transforming completely refreshes all moves which is something to take advantage of when there's an opportunity to do this.
Dash Attack: A decent move. Sweetspot hits completely upwards (useful at high %), and sourspots are useful at lower percents. Allows for 1-2 more dash attacks. Decent panic move. I think the move itself is fairly quick but can be predictable if used too often. Not sure what to add about this one.
Jab: Quite a slow move. Multi hit, disjointed, transcendent. Capable of stopping Spacies' side b if timed correctly. Very weak damage, weak knockback and SDI-able. At lower percents, it can combo into a dash attack or grab. I think JZ mentioned it has very good IASA frames and I agree. Jab to down smash is AMAZING shield pressure.
Spotdodge/Forward Roll/Back Roll:: The same as the majority of the cast. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Air Dodge: Second worst "tier" in the game, but 1/3 of the characters share this same air dodge. 10 wasted frames compared to the better 1/3 of the characters. (Aside: Lol @ Peach's air dodge)
Grabs: Slow and punishable. Very excellent grabbing range though, useful after landing a dtilt. Dash grabs can be useful, but punishable if you miss (useful after jab). Pivot grabs are good for reads and catching the opponent off guard.
Pummel: Disjointed, transcendent, powerful. It's slow and not many can be landed before a grab release. Using it immediately after a grab is always an option (usually not resulting in a grab release).
Ledge attack: Rather quick, but it's something I don't use too often. Zelda has better defensive options imo. 100%+ ledge attack is slow and jumping back on to the ledge or hopping off are better options for her.
Trip/Standing Attack: Transcendent and disjointed. Fairly quick and good for being unpredictable with. Not to be overused.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
ya its alot, but its just a last 2 cents opportunity lol
Farore's Wind is not THAT terrible. I mean, it's a very slow, gimpable move, but since it travels quite a nice distance, if you are launched off the platform you can wait till your opponents are chasing to edgeguard you and start teleporting pretty far away, still making it safely back to the stage. This can also make Zelda a bit hard to spike normally. You can't wait too much, though, because of the start up lag, if they catch you before you disappear it's probably byebye.
It's an ok recovery because of the completely safe distance it travels. Of course, you're invulnerable during its duration, and with time and practice you can master its directions to always try to teleport to the safest place possible (ie. the ledge). Stages with platforms work good with FW as well, cause they provide a sometimes safer place to land.
Offensively it's pretty terrible, unless people are unfamiliar with the match-up they'll probably shield or start charging a smash attack in case you miss (which can happen). If they shield it you're pretty much ****ed and you should teleport away from them.
It's kinda good to prevent juggling though, since you can teleport back to the ground. However, because of the laggy start up they can still reach you before you can disappear, and characters with very high or multiple jumps will probably do.
I think it's best use is to retreat from certain situations, or to move faster if you send an enemy flying towards the other side of the stage and you need to make it in time to put some edgeguarding pressure. Zelda does move faster with FW than with her dash.
And like Courier said, there's also the teleport cancel, which is also sort of situational and should be scarcely used to keep its surprise element.
How can someone write so much about this move? @-@
Her dash attack has some range and priority, like most electric attacks. At lower percentages the sweetspot can lead up to U-smash or you can chase for a grab. You can also use a ledge-halted dash attack to edguard, and if you hit with the sourspot it will be a somewhat powerful semispike at higher percentages.
Her grabs are pretty terrible because of how slow they are. Her poor speed make shield-grabbing almost impossible unless you're hit with a very laggy attack with poor shieldstun. Her pivot has a reaally good range, though.
. I think a better a option is to hop back with N-air, buuuttt, using the ledge attack can make your opponent think you're about to do that, and then you can surprise them with a lightning kick. Won't really work that well, though. You're really gonna have to read your opponent to get away with that.
Do you guys know when the IASA frames of her jab start?
It's an ok recovery because of the completely safe distance it travels. Of course, you're invulnerable during its duration, and with time and practice you can master its directions to always try to teleport to the safest place possible (ie. the ledge). Stages with platforms work good with FW as well, cause they provide a sometimes safer place to land.
Offensively it's pretty terrible, unless people are unfamiliar with the match-up they'll probably shield or start charging a smash attack in case you miss (which can happen). If they shield it you're pretty much ****ed and you should teleport away from them.
It's kinda good to prevent juggling though, since you can teleport back to the ground. However, because of the laggy start up they can still reach you before you can disappear, and characters with very high or multiple jumps will probably do.
I think it's best use is to retreat from certain situations, or to move faster if you send an enemy flying towards the other side of the stage and you need to make it in time to put some edgeguarding pressure. Zelda does move faster with FW than with her dash.
And like Courier said, there's also the teleport cancel, which is also sort of situational and should be scarcely used to keep its surprise element.
How can someone write so much about this move? @-@
Her dash attack has some range and priority, like most electric attacks. At lower percentages the sweetspot can lead up to U-smash or you can chase for a grab. You can also use a ledge-halted dash attack to edguard, and if you hit with the sourspot it will be a somewhat powerful semispike at higher percentages.
Her grabs are pretty terrible because of how slow they are. Her poor speed make shield-grabbing almost impossible unless you're hit with a very laggy attack with poor shieldstun. Her pivot has a reaally good range, though.
I think her ledge attack is a terrible one compared to other characters, and let's not even go into how bad it becomes after 100%
. I think a better a option is to hop back with N-air, buuuttt, using the ledge attack can make your opponent think you're about to do that, and then you can surprise them with a lightning kick. Won't really work that well, though. You're really gonna have to read your opponent to get away with that.Do you guys know when the IASA frames of her jab start?
Frame 25, same with dtilt.
Conspiracy*
Smash Cadet
New to the boards.
Looks like a great thread. I am still learning a lot of the abbrv for moves.
Like someone said previously about the double moves. I use double dash attack to hit opponents on the bounce from the first dash at low %. If close to the edge it combos nice to Dair, which if hits the sweetspot is an easy stock. Also...dash will allow zelda to travel through certain projectiles. Zeldas Dins Fire and Lucarios Aura Sphere if you start your attack just infront of the opponent. Will also go through hit DK while fully charged punch but punch still gets though so be careful.
Looks like a great thread. I am still learning a lot of the abbrv for moves.
Like someone said previously about the double moves. I use double dash attack to hit opponents on the bounce from the first dash at low %. If close to the edge it combos nice to Dair, which if hits the sweetspot is an easy stock. Also...dash will allow zelda to travel through certain projectiles. Zeldas Dins Fire and Lucarios Aura Sphere if you start your attack just infront of the opponent. Will also go through hit DK while fully charged punch but punch still gets though so be careful.
Welcome to the lovely Zelda boards!
Those are pretty interesting facts
Sourspotted dash attacks actually have some decent follow up opportunities.
Those are pretty interesting facts
Sourspotted dash attacks actually have some decent follow up opportunities.Conspiracy*
Smash Cadet
Zelda Dacus?
I've been looking through videos and trying to learn a few advanced moves. I have not seen zelda dacus and through my practice have never been able to do it. Is it possible that she cannot?
I just learned how to DACUS with Shiek...but its crazy hard.
I've been looking through videos and trying to learn a few advanced moves. I have not seen zelda dacus and through my practice have never been able to do it. Is it possible that she cannot?
I just learned how to DACUS with Shiek...but its crazy hard.
Every character can DACUS. Zelda's just barely covers any distance.
Once you have Sheik's DACUS in muscle memory, it becomes a lot easier. I think I should practise Sheik and get my DACUS back to snuff for a semi-large tournament at the end of April... my DACUS used to be at least 80% consistent but I since I've gone pure Zelda I have barely used Sheik and have gotten very rusty.
Once you have Sheik's DACUS in muscle memory, it becomes a lot easier. I think I should practise Sheik and get my DACUS back to snuff for a semi-large tournament at the end of April... my DACUS used to be at least 80% consistent but I since I've gone pure Zelda I have barely used Sheik and have gotten very rusty.
Conspiracy*
Smash Cadet
I just picked up a CCpro and am trying it out. I've been using the nunchuck for years. The issue with Shieks dacus is that you have to map attack to the shoulder button...I am not sure what I'd use that for with Zelda.
Compared to Snake...Sheik dacus is VERY hard. I could get 5-6 off with snake back and forth the very first time I picked it up. Still working on Sheiks.
As for Zelda...her dash attack covers a decent amount of ground why does her dacus not go very far?
Compared to Snake...Sheik dacus is VERY hard. I could get 5-6 off with snake back and forth the very first time I picked it up. Still working on Sheiks.
As for Zelda...her dash attack covers a decent amount of ground why does her dacus not go very far?
Ah I see. I set R as attack since I don't use it for anything at all. I heard Sheik's DACUS is actually the easiest with the Wiimote+Nunchuck.
Not sure how DACUSs work but I think I heard something about quicker startups leading to greater distances traveled.
Not sure how DACUSs work but I think I heard something about quicker startups leading to greater distances traveled.
Zelda's dacus is really easy to do. Go to training mode and set the speed to 1/4 and try it, it's painfully obvious she can, she just doesn't go anywhere. lol
Edit:
Sheik's DACUS isn't easy with a Wiimote + Nunchuck. I used to use it and I pulled her DACUS off like, twice ever. lol
Edit:
Sheik's DACUS isn't easy with a Wiimote + Nunchuck. I used to use it and I pulled her DACUS off like, twice ever. lol
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Story of my life, my Sheik used to be decent but she is total garbage now.
Conspiracy*
Smash Cadet
I am trying to switch up to the CCPro from the nunchuck.
From what I was doing with the nunchuck it is dang near impossible to dacus without using shake smash.
From what I was doing with the nunchuck it is dang near impossible to dacus without using shake smash.