ROB Official Matchup Discussion: Yoshi

So, since the Sheik one got wrapped up pretty darn fast considering its such an uphill MU for Sheik, and the snippets I pulled from the Sheik boards summed it all up- I figured I'd do another MU discussion.

This time, Yoshi!

P.S. Only 8-10 more chars to go. Huzzah!

I read Beef's post and he doesn't know wtf he's talking about aside from the Distant Planet thing which can **** us up.

Eggs don't outcamp us. Powershield and shoot Yoshi during the egg endlag. If he's on a ledge tossing, just powershield those. Can toss a gyro to the ledge to mess with him but even that's not that great. He can only do it 4 times though, then he has to return to the stage so get up on his arse.

BAir > Yoshi when's recovering. It beats out all his aerial moves and it knocks him out of his DJ SA. His only option once he's out of eggs is to DJ AD it but if you auto-cancel on the stage right, you can get a forward smash out of his air dodge. This forces Yoshi to try to come back onto the stage high or to just get off the ledge by normal means. Pretty simple and a bit situational but still comes up a good deal.

ROB's FTilt, FAir, and FSmash **** this match-up, hard. FTilt and FAir out range everything Yoshi has. FSmash and FAir set up a disjointed wall. All that's really left here are knowing all of Yoshi's little tricks like when and where he can pivot grab, double jump canceled egg lay, DAir > NAir > Jab/Grab strings, and a bunch of little things like that that can only come with experience vs Yoshi. Even all of that can usually be stopped by a good wall of FTilt, FAir, and FSmash. This match isn't supposed to be hard.

The only time ROB has any difficulty in this match-up is when he's trying to land on the stage from above...so don't. If you get sent up, fly off the stage, recover to the ledge. Coming from he ledge as ROB against Yoshi is really easy compared to coming up against the likes of Marth, MK, Snake, DK, DDD, ect. Bam, one of the few things he has against us gone.

Should the urge arise, ledge camping Yoshi is wonderfully easy. They're warry off stage as is and the only things they have to get us off stage is a DAir, fall off DJ towards you NAir, or fall off DJ towards you BAir. None of which is particularly good.

Iunno. I'm gonna say really big in ROB's favor. I've played Bwett and Furbs only god knows how many times and I can say that at this point I consistently two stock Furbs and bounce between 1 stock mid-low percentages against Bwett, and they're supposed to be the two best Yoshi mains in the nation. Bwett has ROB experience after playing me so many times (He lives in Dallas and as a few of you know, I was there almost every other weekend during the school year) and Furbs said he has ROB experience vs Hugs from when he was in Cali, but it didn't really seem like he knew wtf to do even after 4-5 matches...sooo after filling y'all in on my pro Yoshi experience, I'm gonna say this is super in ROB's favor and call it 65-35.

Lol, furbs played me a total of once I believe.

It definitely wasn't in tournament. Or maybe it was teams, I'm not really sure.

Good **** Sudai. Only thing I need help with, is getting through barrages of Yoshi Bair. Do we just sheildgrab it, Ftilt?

The one conundrum I have with yoshi's (and I've only played Green Ace & Poltergust occasionally on teh wifyz) is the them using their non-stop while I'm on the edge. Its definitely "get-over-able" (if that makes any sense), but its a nuisance, as they position themselves in a great position that the eggs fall over the edge of the stage so they hit me when I ledge-drop, and the hitbox on them feels... just... inordinately large and so ledge-hopping becomes tedious... as does rolling up/getting up.

Like Sudai said, it seems quite dependent on being aware of their tricks and what to do, gained through exp. But, any tips on that lil' aspect of it would be greatly appreciated as its cost me more damage and occasional stocks than any other facet in the MU.

Edit: B-air is a hassle, but its a lot easier to do deal with if you know how many "hits it has" at any given point, depending on when they started it... as, in my (limited) exp, they react somewhat unifromly after the B-air based on that in terms of where they space themselves to, and what they do afterward.

Sudai said:

ROB's FTilt, FAir, and FSmash **** this match-up, hard. FTilt and FAir out range everything Yoshi has.

Click to expand...

I do know what I'm talking about...you're repeating part of what I said.

Sudai said:

Eggs don't outcamp us. Powershield and shoot Yoshi during the egg endlag. If he's on a ledge tossing, just powershield those.

Click to expand...

This is the second time said, the eggs outcamp gyro only. Not laser, read it again carefully next time.

Sudai said:

I read Beef's post and he doesn't know wtf he's talking about aside from the Distant Planet thing which can **** us up.

Click to expand...

God**** I can see why you're not a moderator anymore...just relax, I wasn't even explaining the whole matchup. I was just saying what I believed, so just chill out bro...
If it makes people happier, just ignore my first post then -_-.

i find yoshi a very gimicky character... he has tricks, and a surprising lot of them, but once you get past that the "bread and butter" is no match for ours... I find a lot of his tricks leave him vulnerable because they rely on his 2nd jump for super-armour or spacing, and rob can abuse that and gimp him quite easily

Beef, I quit the position by my own will and I can even access the staff rooms still, I didn't lose my moderator status or anything. Actually, I gave it up to be a **** because that's more fun since people take things way to seriously.

Anyway. Yoshi's tricks, pretty sure I covered them before. I'll look for it somewhere and if I didn't I'll just write out a list for you guys and how to handle it.

Edit: I can't find it if I did do it, but I just realized something.. It'd be better if you actually read about the tricks and figured your own way around them since that'd better you both in the match-up and as a player, and it's not that hard..soooo. Read this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143857

Or at least look around at their tricks. Not hard to find.

i don't know where you got all that sudai, i played shadow rob a lot at wcsl, but yeah not hugs

also, idk why everyone thinks me and bwett are the best 2 yoshis, i think that title belongs to Pride

and 3rdly theres no rob's in texas, i was losing with dedede against you too sudai

Furbs said:

i don't know where you got all that sudai, i played shadow rob a lot at wcsl, but yeah not hugs

Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

Furbs said:

also, idk why everyone thinks me and bwett are the best 2 yoshis, i think that title belongs to Pride

Click to expand...

Ok, my bad. I've never seen Pride play nor have I played him so I can't comment.

Furbs said:

and 3rdly theres no rob's in texas, i was losing with dedede against you too sudai

Click to expand...

You assume there's an abundance of Yoshi mains in Louisiana? You probably have as much experience in the match-up as me and if you don't, does it really matter? ROB has like, three tricks, Yoshi has a bunch that can be used in different ways, so it should take me longer to learn the match-up. I don't know why you bring up D3 though? That's a completely different match-up than the Yoshi one and they really have no bearing on each other. Unless you're just trying to show that it takes you 15 or more matches to learn how to fight a single character that's easy to learn to play against.

Should listen to Sudai. Sounds pretty right, the matchup is hard for Yoshi since Rob has great options on an approaching Yoshi and can stuff most things. Not only that, he can outcamp Yoshi, so it puts us at a bad position. Not hard enough for 70:30. It would be pushing it for it to be 60:40. 65:35 seems the best.

Good stuff thus far. Throw in stages (good/bad for each char, bans/cps, etc) and we'll call this a wrap in a couple of days and move on.

my advice to deal with the yoshi eggs is to just pick him up for like 20 minutes and exclusively throw eggs around... learn to see exactly where he can hit with them and when he can throw another one... there's actually a very large window to safely jump up off the ledge between eggs, and if you time your invincibility right it gets even bigger

*waves at Bwett* Was gonna drag you in here eventually but Furbs finding his way into the thread distracted me. XD

CP stage vs Yoshi is easily Frigate. It'll get banned though. so from there's personal preference. High ceilings are good because then the only KO move you really need to look out for is FSmash. I personally go to to Japes but that's because it's camp central plus a high ceiling.

When I talked to Bwett about stages in the past, I remember him claiming he doesn't like Yoshi's as a neutral for Yoshi (I could easily be wrong.. ><) but it seems like it'd at least be a fun neutral for Yoshi. The slants by the sides and when the platform is slanted enough, Yoshi can Down-B cancel into an aerial instantly.

I'm not really sure where you'd want to ban against Yoshi as I'm not too sure there's many stages who's layout seem like they'd help Yoshi. He has some silly tricks on Delfino (just look out for slants everywhere because he can down-b cancel on most slants that lead to a ledge/edge on this stage). Norfair seems interesting for Yoshi with his double jump and wanting to be aerial a good bit anyway, but I've never seen it played. Iunno. It's hard to pick what to ban. ><

As for the egg thing, when they're edge camping eggs it is possible to run in and steal the ledge, but I've never really tried more than a few times. It's simpler for me to just wait and punish when they try to get up. If you do steal the ledge, I'd recommend putting a gyro up on the edge first because then Yoshi has to decide, DJ super armor through you and get hit by the gyro or vice versa. Just takes a bit to figure out the spacing on his DJ SA if you're not used to it.

Sudai said:

*waves at Bwett* Was gonna drag you in here eventually but Furbs finding his way into the thread distracted me. XD

CP stage vs Yoshi is easily Frigate. It'll get banned though. so from there's personal preference. High ceilings are good because then the only KO move you really need to look out for is FSmash. I personally go to to Japes but that's because it's camp central plus a high ceiling.

When I talked to Bwett about stages in the past, I remember him claiming he doesn't like Yoshi's as a neutral for Yoshi (I could easily be wrong.. ><) but it seems like it'd at least be a fun neutral for Yoshi. The slants by the sides and when the platform is slanted enough, Yoshi can Down-B cancel into an aerial instantly.

I'm not really sure where you'd want to ban against Yoshi as I'm not too sure there's many stages who's layout seem like they'd help Yoshi. He has some silly tricks on Delfino (just look out for slants everywhere because he can down-b cancel on most slants that lead to a ledge/edge on this stage). Norfair seems interesting for Yoshi with his double jump and wanting to be aerial a good bit anyway, but I've never seen it played. Iunno. It's hard to pick what to ban. ><

As for the egg thing, when they're edge camping eggs it is possible to run in and steal the ledge, but I've never really tried more than a few times. It's simpler for me to just wait and punish when they try to get up. If you do steal the ledge, I'd recommend putting a gyro up on the edge first because then Yoshi has to decide, DJ super armor through you and get hit by the gyro or vice versa. Just takes a bit to figure out the spacing on his DJ SA if you're not used to it.

Click to expand...

I agree with the CP mess, as I just couldn't think of one myself... hence me bringing it up. It doesn't seem like there's a "YOSHI IS SOOOO GOOD ON THIS STAGE" stage.

And, the Yoshi ledgecamping isn't a problem, haha. Its when *i'm* ledgecamping and eating eggs as I'm stalling that is troublesome. =P

Oh. Haha. There's better ways to camp against Yoshi than ledge camping. Just camp by the ledge so you can Powershield eggs and then if he tries to approach, hit the ledge. His Eggs have the issue of not being very useful at close range.

i really do hate this match up.. i have huge trouble with ****ing BAIR i try ither shield or F-tilt. still annoying.. and the eggs.. don't get me started..

FSmash through BAir or walk away and FTilt the landing lag.

alright will try that next time i play lil b

i was just pointing out that me losing with dedede points towards my lack of inexperience, also just cause yoshi has tricks doesn't mean they're too useful lol

All I find annoying about Yoshi are the eggs and his Jab. Aside from that, it's not a hard MU.

You should never be close enough to Yoshi that he can jab you :x

Furbs said:

i was just pointing out that me losing with dedede points towards my lack of inexperience, also just cause yoshi has tricks doesn't mean they're too useful lol

Click to expand...

Gotcha. Though I do think the tricks are fairly important. There are enough useful ones to lose a set for someone that doesn't know any of them. That's just one set, but that one set could mean the difference in a tourney.

stingers135 said:

You should never be close enough to Yoshi that he can jab you :x

Click to expand...

This, but it happens sometimes.

*puts a stamp on this one*