Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #8~ Wario

DFEAR · Jul 7, 2009

Discuss WAAAARRRRIIIIOOOO. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:

ADHD · Jul 7, 2009

This matchup is tough because wario can get into your territory easily. Limit the air with fair, peanuts, and glidetossing bananas up as well as z-dropping. Don't be afraid to use utilt and usmash to catch him offguard. Warios that air-camp are the easy ones, the kind that get in your face and become aggressive are difficult to deal with. As for the bike, he can use it to temporarily block bananas. However, you can throw it at the bike to allow the banana to pop up once and create a temporary wall if you need to. If the bike goes past you, you can throw the naner at his back and he'll pop off it. **** him with the tires, they're amazingly fun to use. I think this matchup is the true test of DIDDY SKILL, because it shows how well you can limit both the air and the ground against a character that can easily utilize both to the maximum of his abilities.

Count · Jul 7, 2009

Nana lock to GR to spike can make a match a lot easier, and it isn't as difficult to pull off as it sounds. However, for CPs I think yoshi's island brawl is your best bet, wario has a difficult time fighting you there due to the large platform hindering his game. Camp underneath the platform with uthrown nanas. I've found better success CPing platform stages vs wario than flat ones. I used to like SV here as I nearly always do, but him on the moving platform can get annoying. Don't get impatient.

You can bait air dodges left and right, but the bottom line is that even with a baited air dodge his air dodge is so stupid that you may not be able to hit. uthrow bananas can limit what space he has in the air however, and you can attack from there. While the bike on the stage can be annoying, just remember that if you can get him offstage his recovery is limited. When he does have his bike to recover, remember jump bike jump up b, or something to that extent, and predict his recovery.

Expect your matches vs wario to go at least 6 minutes, I played a 5 game set with a wario not too long ago where two matches went to time, and the set total with thinking over CPs etc went to 8 minutes.

I learned basically all of this from hanson, but I strongly agree that camping underneath platforms is our strongest strategy here, with YI brawl being our best CP.

edit: 55:45 or 6:4 wario, but we're closing the gap.

GooseMainsDiddy · Jul 8, 2009

ADHD said:
This matchup is tough because wario can get into your territory easily. Limit the air with fair, peanuts, and glidetossing bananas up as well as z-dropping. Don't be afraid to use utilt and usmash to catch him offguard. Warios that air-camp are the easy ones, the kind that get in your face and become aggressive are difficult to deal with. As for the bike, he can use it to temporarily block bananas. However, you can throw it at the bike to allow the banana to pop up once and create a temporary wall if you need to. If the bike goes past you, you can throw the naner at his back and he'll pop off it. **** him with the tires, they're amazingly fun to use. I think this matchup is the true test of DIDDY SKILL, because it shows how well you can limit both the air and the ground against a character that can easily utilize both to the maximum of his abilities.

I agree, playing a good Wario is tricky and really tests your tech skill AND your nonana skills. When he controls the stage you have to react without abusing bananas because he can get around them well and take advantage of the fact that Diddy fails without them. You have to play really smart in these instances.

Quick question, should I be offensive or defensive in this matchup. I usually play somewhere in the middle but sometimes it seems like it falls short.

TreK · Jul 8, 2009

Their point of view -> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237601

I have no clue about this matchup. Only faced warios online and he sucks at it.

Bellioes · Jul 8, 2009

My least favorite MU.
Heres what Ive learned from playing my bros Wario

All of his aerials are beastly. His Fair is fast and combos into serveral. He can chain 2-3 offstage and then edgeguard the barrel. The aerial he spams the most along with his Dair. His Dair combos, has multiple hits and a long duration. His Bair is good from ledge hops for edgeguarding. And his Uair has crazy priority. IIRC, its hitbox extends past his hands so dont expect to beat it with a Fair when your above him. His rising FH aerials can put a lot of pressure on you if you just sit in your shield; he can do falling Bites, Dair behind you, space Fairs, or even just AD down to grab. He has some crazy aerial movement so dont ever try to shield grab. Youll just get punished.

The bike can be annoying when he leaves it on the stage since he can just camp behind it with weaving aerials. As ADHD said, you can throw a banana to make it bounce like on Brinstar but be careful: the Wario can just catch it off the bike and you will have lost a banana. What I like to do is Fair him which outprioritizes most if not all of his aerials. Then try to get and keep him offstage which shouldnt be that difficult without his bike.

Try to keep control of the stage because once he gets you offstage, he has several options. He can Waft you, Fair/Bair you back out or even both (Fair to Waft is supposedly an awesome setup offstage and practically inescapeable even if its expected

) You should also keep in mind that Wario can instant wipeout his Bike on the edge and then throw it back out creating a Wall in front of the ledge. You really have to mix it up when you recovery or youll just eat a Waft or get gimped.

To keep control of the stage, use careful banana placement. I usually keep one in front and one in hand. If he hits your shield when you have a banana, GT towards him and downwards; this will allow you to follow up as if you had GTed towards him. Once you trip him (which wont be often) take control. I believe this is one of those matchs where you do the most damage after one trip (like the Olimar MU). Be aggresive and dont let him gain back control. Combo him. Just dont be stupid or or youll eat a well timed Fair or AD resetting the stiuation.

Finally, if you ever get the double banana lock, do not smash him. Instead grab him over the ledge and then mix it up between a SH Dair and Fair after the grab release so that he doesnt know which way to DI. And if you can, learn to single naner lock him to grab (like Im doing.) Once you can, the Wario should be scared to approch while you have a banana inhand for fear of hitting your shield with a mistimed aerial and allowing you to follow up with the SNL to kill. At least thats how my bro felt after I did it to him once :laugh:

PhatyCHONG · Jul 8, 2009

Diddy Kong Stage Discussion

Phaty Chong: Official Diddy Kong Stage matchup discussion

Wario:

Counterpicks: Luigi Mansion, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi Island, Pokemon Stadium 1
Reason for Counter:

Luigi Mansion

Bottom level pressures more ground play which Diddy is better

Here is a quote from the Discussion

"Wario Stage Discussion"
Luigi Mansion
When the house is still standing your range of movement is somewhat limited. Characters with strong ground games benefit from this. Wario's ground game isn't exactly stellar, so you can see the problem. Breaking down parts of the house and luring them out in the open can help with this, but in a tourney you might need to have the lead to acomplish this. Breaking down the entire house is also possible to turn it into FD but the house will respawn pretty quickly, meaning you have start all over again.

Recommended counterpick: Hahaha

Click to expand...

Wario's seem to hate this stage w/ chacters with good ground game which is Diddy

Barrel Cancel is beast on this stage

Diddy has high mobility on this stage

When map is destroyed it become a FD/SV

Warios can't air camp as much in the house

U throw/Smash/Tilt on the "non-going through platforms" leave for potential multiple hits.

Effective for peanut gun

Final Destination

Used for "Aggressive" Warios to help Space yourself more

For Defensive Play

Always a good Diddy Stage

Smashville

Used for "campy" Warios to pressure to stop camping

Always a good Diddy stage

For offensive play

Pokemon Stadium 1

Transformations hurt some wario air game

Transformations transforming hurt wario air game

Neutral stage is relatively in your favor

Transformations help against aggressive warios

Yoshi Island

IHO [Player 1] Best Yoshi's Island, just your next best neutral next to FD and SV.

Slant at the edge gives you more range for a grab to aerial

You can DI towards the wall and tech it

Platform doesn't really hender bananas

Keep Warios from the middle [Advice]

Bans: Norfair, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Castle Seige, Delfino Plaza
Reason for Ban:

Norfair

Considered on of Diddy's worst stages

Small Platforms hurt Banana game

He is areial king on this stage

Campy or Agressive he does well

Brinstar

Considered on of Warios best stage

Ground level hurts glide toss to smash, and Bananas

Small Blastzone

Wario's clap is really effective

Wario can use the pillar for an extra hit box

Wario can camp really well on this stage

Lava doesn't effect him as much

Lava can save him from some spikes

Wario can attack through the bottom level stage

Rainbow Cruise

Moving stage w/ one of the best areial moveset is difficult

Considered on of Warios best counterpick

Moving stage could potentially hurt banana game

Wario's clap kill well on the low ceiling [T3]

Transformation 1 [Ship] Diddys Favor

Transformation 2 Wario's Favor

Transformation 3 Wario's favor

Castle Seige

Ban for Aggressive Wario's if not just don't CP

Transformation 1

Hard to navigate around him

Slop henders you and helps him

Potential of being gimped on the "lip"

Warios favor

Transformation 2

Better than T1 but, Warios favor

High ceiling helps you from Wario's Clap

Navigates well by the statues

Good about avoiding bananas around the statue

s
Transformation 3

Diddy advantage

Kinda like FD/SV

Tilt doesn't effect anyone

Delfino Plaza

The variations of platforms in the neutral form work quite well for Wario

Fart in the water is a free kill for wario

Wario recover is helped due to be able to go through bottom ground platform [like it needs any more help] It helps Diddy too

Awkward Diddy map against wario

Island is much in Wario Favor

Fountain is in Wario's favor

Pillar part is definitely Warios advantage. Your banana game is pretty much ineffective here and the multiple ledges let Wario camp aerials like crazy

[/QUOTE]

Count · Jul 8, 2009

You should play defensively. Does anybody actually read my posts? Wario one of the top characters for punishing aggression, especially the way he plays in the current meta game.

GooseMainsDiddy · Jul 8, 2009

I just wanted some more opinions.

DUB · Jul 8, 2009

Good feedback in here. People know what your talking about. Instead of creating another wall of text I'm just gonna outline some points I saw.

-Play defensively. If you blindly throw your naners and dash attack at Wario feel free to take easy damage for the Wario and be put in a disadvantageous position.

Fair Fair FAIR. Keep count of Wario's jumps. If he jumps towards you and isn't going to attack until he DJ's a (dair, bite, w/e) attack. Bust popguns, foxtrot, anything that might provoke an action from Wario. Your fair will counter the bites, his fair and most of his aerial approaches. If you don't feel like you can get it in, no worries, run away and popgun, or GT out his range.

Don't overshield- keep shielding his aerials and you'll catch yourself bitten. Mix it up.

Wario is good on a wide variety of stages. Practice your CP stages with crew mates or in friendlies. This is helpful for allll matchups.

GR---Dair on the edge

Oh yeah. ...PATIENCE....

chimpact · Jul 8, 2009

Don't try to shield grab wario, he will be able to punish the lag if he spaces his dairs and fair approaches right. If anything nair OoS, or bair if he's behind you.

Don't get gimped, recover as smart as you can. He will try to hit you at the start up and ending lag of your side b. I think DHGR ---> Footstool works here.

Bellioes · Jul 8, 2009

I have a question; When you guys say to play campy, what do you guys mean?

For me, it means to play patiently/defensively UNTIL you get through with a trip or he makes a mistake. From there, I believe its OK to play smartly BUT aggresively to keep control of the match. Take a hold of the momentum cause by that one trip/mistake and capitalize. For me, camping for the WHOLE match sounds ineffective and boring. Rather, I feel that this MU should be played like the Falco and Olimar MUs.

DUB · Jul 9, 2009

When I play campy with Diddy it's pretty much an all out assualt of popguns and naners being thrown. When I camp I tend to grab more because it puts me in control. I throw them away and begin to camp again. Characters that like to approach from the air get messed up by peanuts. If they are trying to bair it will turn them around and they will be doing a move they did not intend to do which means you can hit them with a naner rinse and repeat.

A better example of this:

A Donkey Kong is SHDBairing at you. You hit him with a peanut while he's doing this and most of the time it will make him fair an inch of the ground causing massive lag.

You don't have to play mad campy the entire match, but switching playstyles up is always good. It's actually not a bad idea to camp Wario the whole time. Just don't be too aggressive. Be PROACTIVE.

Bellioes · Jul 9, 2009

Ok, thats what I thought. It may not be a bad idea to camp the whole match but I would rather only play defensively until I force a mistake. Then I would punish with a little bit of aggression until I run out of steam and the situation is reset.

I always like switching between Offence and Defence because it usually throws people off but maybe Ill try a completely defensive style next time I face Wario to see how it works for me.

DUB · Jul 9, 2009

Bellioes said:
Ok, thats what I thought. It may not be a bad idea to camp the whole match but I would rather only play defensively until I force a mistake. Then I would punish with a little bit of aggression until I run out of steam and the situation is reset.

I always like switching between Offence and Defence because it usually throws people off but maybe Ill try a completely defensive style next time I face Wario to see how it works for me.

From the sound of it you've strapped together a good game plan. Play D, force the mistake and go into a little burst of aggression until you have reset.

fource · Jul 10, 2009

Please note I did not read anything previously posted on this thread. The following are strictly my comments and opinions from this match-up.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:

This is a little difficult to explain I think. Both characters aerials are important, just in different aspects of the match-up. Wario's DAir camping is obviously the first thing to note and of course Diddy's FAir. When I say this, I'm not encouraging everyone to sit and camp with FAirs; that's just silly. Both of these moves have potential to beat the other move in terms of priority and it'd be silly just to have a lot of clashing. It's safest to use Diddy's fair to punish landing lag if Diddy takes to the air, or to surprise the Wario player (since you'll be glued to the ground most of the match, it might surprise them when you join the air game). In the end though, I think we all know that the air game is definitely in Wario's favor.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:

I want to say this is in Diddy's favor because of how much control we have of the stage, but the simple fact is: this match-up is only on the ground for 30-40% of the match. Then there's about an equal amount of time in the air as there is waiting for that opening. Diddy should dominate here with bananas but you guys have to be patient! Please Realize that Wario can use bananas pretty well and rack up damage like crazy with them.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:

Bite: This is almost impossible to avoid imo; you'll stop some of them but not all of them. If you shield Wario's DAir he can simply go straight to the bite to take down Diddy's shield so try to roll away when the final hit of the DAir connects. Stay far away so when he jumps over you he doesn't FF a bite when you expect a DAir.

FSmash: The super armor frames on this attack combined with it's damage and knock-back make it immensely annoying. There are two flaws though, the lack of range as well as the second of lag if the attack misses. Space as well as you can, this shouldn't be too difficult since you'll be trying to the entire match anyway. Also, this is another mind game since FSmash can come directly after a DAir...just be careful.

DAir: Self explanatory imo.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:

Run. Grab release to spike. Glide toss. Normal moves, just be more careful.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:

I play Wario as a secondary and the clock really does make the game. From when the clock says 6:35 until about 6:06, be very, very campy. Don't give that Wario a chance to land that hit; the impact on that fart is devastating and I think can kill Diddy across the screen around 70%.

Overall Character Ratio:

45:55
Wario's Favor

FelixTrix · Aug 28, 2009

lol at grab release to up smash. pretty useless.

The only time you can grab release wario is when he is off the stage. it's always best to dair spike because it's pretty much an instant kill over 60%.
The next best thing besides a spike is a reverse side b. You grab release, and then dash to the right but reverse side b, and you will diddy hump wario. if you wait, you might be able to footstool him, killing him, but only if he doesn't DI out of it correctly.

Wario is pretty hard to play against being an aerial character. He is also hella fat and lives to high percentages. My advice is to try and set up grab release-spikes at the edges. Try to lure him in, and take early stock leads. Play defensive when he has farts, and try to space yourself and watch out for his really good aerial game.

DMG · Sep 4, 2009

Grab release to spike death is avoided with SDI/tech. It's not hard to SDI it either considering how much time Wario has to prepare for the free hit

Love you ADHD. Genesis was fun, next tournament we go to we should team up and gay it up.

Dekar173 · Sep 4, 2009

4rce said:
Bite: This is almost impossible to avoid imo; you'll stop some of them but not all of them. If you shield Wario's DAir he can simply go straight to the bite to take down Diddy's shield so try to roll away when the final hit of the DAir connects. Stay far away so when he jumps over you he doesn't FF a bite when you expect a DAir.

If you're having trouble with those two follow-ups, I'd suggest attempting to (dependent on which side of you he lands on) either OoS usmash, or shieldgrab.

Behind- OoS usmash (no****!)

Front- shieldgrab!

Of course, if he starts spacing it perfectly I don't see these things working out every time, but it's a good mix-up aside from just resetting all the time.

Gnes · Sep 4, 2009

Dekar173 said:
resetting all the time.

Wait if u reset dont u lose the match?

:dizzy:

Jupz · Sep 5, 2009

greatness_007 said:
Wait if u reset dont u lose the match?

he didn't mean quit the match :D

Deez. · Sep 22, 2009

I personally like this MU. only for the fact Ive had tons and tons of practice against a good wario player. SlikVik in his prime. but the way i play wario is hes of course going to camp you so all you do is camp him back there's no way he can out camp you. shoot peanuts force him to approach and leave one nana on ground and one in hand and glide toss backwards to be safe as he lands with a dair or bair. and a free hit is open for you. and if he approaches u from the air.. for example if you look at your keyboard your the ltter "g" and the wario player is the letter "r" space your fair it beats most of warios moves. i always space mine perfectly and wario never has a chance and i also run at him and shield a lot baiting him to dair me and i glidetoss backards into easy fsmash :chuckle:

DMG · Sep 22, 2009

Wario can punish Fair with his own Fair, even if you retreat it and SH it. If Wario is positioned right, he can airdodge and land while you Fair and Jump and Fart/Uair/aerial you back.

Gnes · Sep 22, 2009

Wario can only punish it if hes grounded, if hes not that wont work. If i retreating fair in the middle of your airdodge u wont be able to punish it.

Diddy's fair is overrated in this matchup.

DMG · Sep 22, 2009

greatness_007 said:
Wario can only punish it if hes grounded, if hes not that wont work. If i retreating fair in the middle of your airdodge u wont be able to punish it.

Diddy's fair is overrated in this matchup.

It depends though on where he is positioned. If he is coming down to the ground and is about SH Fair Height when Diddy decides to jump and Fair him, he can airdodge it and punish unless he's REALLY outside its range. If he is higher up when he is forced to airdodge, then Wario will have a much harder time punishing it. The downside to that obviously is that the higher Wario is, the more time he has to react to the Fair in the first place, so it's a trade off of whether you want Fair to have a better shot at hitting, or if you want a safer attack.

Bair however is very hard to punish sometimes when spaced well, even OOS for Wario, but I've managed some very VERY fast OOS Fair pokes that looked like they barely connected before Diddy could move (although it is kinda risky since you will hit with the really weak part of Fair and if you retreat it too late after you hit with it Diddy can probably retaliate for free.)

But yes I agree Fair overrated a bit.

Gnes · Sep 22, 2009

Bobby...why did u write so much on that little part. And i agree...if u give wario a inch he takes a mile. Stupid Stall chr.

DMG · Sep 22, 2009

Because I used to be known for being in depth with matchup explanations and analysis. Nowadays everyone just talks about Brinstar or stalling or how much time they can run out without getting hit

Player-1 · Sep 22, 2009

Fighting Wario on brinstar is fun =]

DUB · Sep 22, 2009

greatness_007 said:
Wario can only punish it if hes grounded, if hes not that wont work. If i retreating fair in the middle of your airdodge u wont be able to punish it.

Diddy's fair is overrated in this matchup.

Could be wrong ( don't think I am though ) but I'm pretty sure Wario's U-air will beat out Didz fair 100% of the time.

Gnes · Sep 22, 2009

DUB said:
Could be wrong ( don't think I am though ) but I'm pretty sure Wario's U-air will beat out Didz fair 100% of the time.

Do u mean in priority or in the situation that me and Dmg were talking about???

Yes clap has more priority than fair, but a safely spaced fair at a aerial wario should not be punished by up air.

DMG · Sep 22, 2009

DUB said:
Could be wrong ( don't think I am though ) but I'm pretty sure Wario's U-air will beat out Didz fair 100% of the time.

Certainly not, like I said the only reasonable punishment Wario can dish out for Fair is his own Fair, and that's only if you are positioned right and poke him with it after his Fair is over.

If Wario is punishing your Fairs with Uair, then you are using them too high in the air.

Also, Diddy's Fair is faster than Wario's Uair, so rarely will you see his Uair "beat out" Fair unless Wario starts it before Diddy Fairs anyways. That and you also have to be positioned in a way that Diddy shouldn't allow in the first place usually (unless he is tosses into the air with Fthrow/Uthrow or hit with a grounded Clap)

ADHD · Sep 22, 2009

Just do diddy stuff.

GooseMainsDiddy · Oct 14, 2009

That is so true ADHD.

PortCity · Jan 3, 2010

I'm interested in DFear's new thoughts on this match up. He has been getting a LOT of Wario practice lately. :-D

DFEAR · Jan 4, 2010

i hate bite D-:

but its ok, just showed me that i was too close to wario anyway

rvkevin · Jan 4, 2010

DFEAR said:
i hate bite D-:

but its ok, just showed me that i was too close to wario anyway

Yea, my take on the match up is keep your distance and stay mobile.

Waft-OLi · Mar 27, 2010

spam bite and use his nanerz against him gg

DFEAR · Mar 28, 2010

Waft-OLi said:
spam bite and use his nanerz against him gg

Robin1613 · Mar 31, 2010

my most hated diddy match up. i honestly have no idea how to play this guy =/

Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #8~ Wario

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Is "that guy"

Smash Lord

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Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

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Smash Lord

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Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Legend

Justice Man

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Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Legend

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Smash Master

Smash Legend

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Smash Ace

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