Matchup discussion week 29 - Peach

#HBC | ZoZo · Jul 8, 2009

Today we discuss the toadstool princess.

Oohh Falco is buff.

Can we handle this unchaingrabable, floating and dair spamming princess?

Discuss away!

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

ill say no we can't. but than again i live around one of the better peach's. To me, Peach is one of falco's worst matchups.

If you get stuck into one dair, it could easily turn into 2 dairs and a nair.

If your shield is still there after 2-3 dairs + nair peach can come down and cancel into a jab.

turnips and her forward B can gimp falco hard.

Peach also has a chainthrow on falco.

kismet2 · Jul 8, 2009

We can chaingrab peach lol. You have to use the walking grab and peach isn't that difficult. If they float towards you, just use a retreating shdl to halt their approach. And if they Dair you while you're in your shield you can use an OoS Nair(which comes out on frame 3). Only thing that I find troublesome is her too good of a jab.

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

ill try out the OoS nair. I don't have a lot of frame data, but i would expect another dair to come out.

I don't see why the walking chain grab would work and the running one wouldn't.

anyhow, i plan to give a little bit more attention to the live feed at genesis if kosmos plays dehf, sk92 or you.

kismet2 · Jul 8, 2009

Typ_Ex said:
ill try out the OoS nair. I don't have a lot of frame data, but i would expect another dair to come out.

I don't see why the walking chain grab would work and the running one wouldn't.

anyhow, i plan to give a little bit more attention to the live feed at genesis if kosmos plays dehf, sk92 or you.

The Nair would come out before the Dair. When you're using the running grab you have shorter range so it's pretty terrible. There's no live feed at Genesis. =( They will be recording matches though. So you may be able to watch some matches of them playing against Peach players.

swordsaint · Jul 8, 2009

I'm new to discussing match-ups on the boards, but I'll give my opinion a go as best I can.

Falco can pillar chain Peach anyway. This is pretty much an easy 50-60+ (75% roughly if you include a gatling combo) depending on how well you can read and react to your opponent. Remembering Peaches weight is really important here because in reality, that's about half to 3/4 of her stock GONE, in a single grab (or dair).

Peach has a small chain grab on Falco as well to about 25-30% which can very likely combo in to a side tilt or up tilt. Even CG > Side tilt > up tilt (or Uair) with some luck on their part. So really we lose about half a stock here as well. Considering Falco's weight, and Peaches strong Fair (unstale) as well as her Up Smash.

I think the key to avoid this though is Falco's superior projectile game and camp game. This all in all makes that above "combo" harder to achieve, where they'll likely resort to something else anyway. And lose that "edge" they would normally have to get an easy momentum going.

Falco's Dair, Nair and Bair are all gonna beat out Peaches aerials in both speed and power, likely priority as well but correct me if I'm wrong, since priority and framerate things aren't my forte.

And as said before, Peach will have a difficult time approaching due to Falco's camp game and spacing game if you decide to use the reflector. The reflector can be used for mindgames here as well, reminding an enemy you have the reflector by flaunting it and using it to space will really make them weary about getting abusive of their projectiles. Not to mention a good player will catch the turnips anyhow. (At least I will since they travel slow and airdodging makes for a good catch

)

So we've essentially got most of Peaches strengthes covered. I think ONE of our only concerns is the reasonable strength of her toadstool counter if we get trigger happy. Though I personally think the attack is too slow, predictable and all in all useless since Falco heavily relies on grabs.

Falco has plenty OoS options as well to cover anything Peach can dish out. Peach on the other hand has very little to often in the sense of punishing a well-spaced shield pressuring attack.

ALL of falco's attacks are still useful in this match-up, whereas Peach loses a lot of her options, and personally I think that makes a huge impact here.

Peach bomber is useless when used in the face of a worthy adversary anyway.

Falco can easily Spike Peach as well due to her horrendous recovery. Peach won't easily gimp Falco however unless he's low and she can do a good turnip throw. Good luck getting a good Falco low though Peach. Hello DI.

So with all that taken in to consideration, my personal opinion of this match-up is 60-40 Falco, or possibly even 65-35 Falco.

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

peach's aerials have a little bit more priority than you know. and edge guarding peach you can forget about it cause the umbrella has priority over the dair.

swordsaint · Jul 8, 2009

Well there's little thing called Bair stage spike.

Hawks go Caw · Jul 8, 2009

You would find this match up hard Type considering you don't use lasers. Lasers are the main advantage Falco has and on their own give Falco the match up. Peach up close is pretty scary. Falco's weight and fast fall makes him pretty easy to chain, something Peach is good at.

Peach can float. Good luck landing that Bair for a stage spike and not eating a Fair when you miss.

Edge hogging is pretty pointless since Peach can close and open her umbrella to knock you off.

Peach has as hard of a time killing as Falco does. Japes and FD are best stages as usual.

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

We have 2 stock falcos here, and neither of them can take kosmos down either.

Dark.Pch · Jul 8, 2009

kismet2 said:
We can chaingrab peach lol. You have to use the walking grab and peach isn't that difficult. If they float towards you, just use a retreating shdl to halt their approach. And if they Dair you while you're in your shield you can use an OoS Nair(which comes out on frame 3). Only thing that I find troublesome is her too good of a jab.

Falco can not chain grab Peach. One Dthrow and Peach can Nair Falco before a grab get her. And what also helps with this if it does not make sense to you is that her Nair has Invicibility frames. 2 in the back and 3 in the front. Which makes this move a mean combo breaker. Also For those that don't know, her Nair comes out in 2 frames.

swordsaint said:
I'm new to discussing match-ups on the boards, but I'll give my opinion a go as best I can.

Falco can pillar chain Peach anyway. This is pretty much an easy 50-60+ (75% roughly if you include a gatling combo) depending on how well you can read and react to your opponent. Remembering Peaches weight is really important here because in reality, that's about half to 3/4 of her stock GONE, in a single grab (or dair).

I am sure Peach can break these chains do to her nair. I'll check up on this. Around 50%-60 % you might be able to chain a Dair or do it to another attack. Cause the more damage we have, harder it is to react.

swordsaint said:
Peach has a small chain grab on Falco as well to about 25-30% which can very likely combo in to a side tilt or up tilt. Even CG > Side tilt > up tilt (or Uair) with some luck on their part. So really we lose about half a stock here as well. Considering Falco's weight, and Peaches strong Fair (unstale) as well as her Up Smash.

Ok

swordsaint said:
I think the key to avoid this though is Falco's superior projectile game and camp game. This all in all makes that above "combo" harder to achieve, where they'll likely resort to something else anyway. And lose that "edge" they would normally have to get an easy momentum going.

Ok, But we still have options to get at you and get that damage to start something. remember that. But doing what you said here does make it harder to go buck wild on you.

swordsaint said:
Falco's Dair, Nair and Bair are all gonna beat out Peaches aerials in both speed and power, likely priority as well but correct me if I'm wrong, since priority and framerate things aren't my forte.

If I do a nair in your face, it would beat all those moves or we would trade hits. And spaced Fairs can beat these moves. Fair Vs your Bair is hard and takes timing. But we are in luck cause his Bair is angled upward.

swordsaint said:
And as said before, Peach will have a difficult time approaching due to Falco's camp game and spacing game if you decide to use the reflector. The reflector can be used for mindgames here as well, reminding an enemy you have the reflector by flaunting it and using it to space will really make them weary about getting abusive of their projectiles. Not to mention a good player will catch the turnips anyhow. (At least I will since they travel slow and airdodging makes for a good catch )

Here is a lil roleplay I did with a falco player to explain what Peach can do about his camping.

" The match starts and you wanna play keep away and start camping me. You think you have me by doing this. That is your first mistake. For I:

- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to you
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float

I'm shielding and getting close to you by running out my shield. I get close to you, you have no choice but to stop unless you want a free azz kicking in the corner. Now you say you can F-B to the other side? I could have sworn I told you that I 2 stocked a falco for playing like this. He camped and F-B. If You try to F-B:

- I'll time a Ground Float to Nair. It breaks your F-B and you get hit.
- Go in then Pull bait and bait that F-B and stop it with a reverse bair (reason I would do a reserve Bair is cause I am baiting you. Nair is too fast and that move would come out then I get hit with a F-B. I need to slow it down on an attack to hit you with, thus a 6 Frame move would do the Job.
- Time Dairs and you F-B into it

Then you wanna play it slick. Start to do it in the air. Or lets say when the fight started, you just F-B in the air. Ok then. I'll tell you right now. When Falco does it in the air, that is better for me. You are easy to catch and stay close to if you do it in the air.

"How?"

- Remember what I said about me pulling back if you wanna F-B, If I pull back, You will F-B and land right near me, and I can get a hit off you. that move lags when you touch the floor. And even if I don't catch you in time, I'm still near you so you can't camp, u have to fight me off or risk yet another F-B and get punished for it before you zoom to the other side. Only stupid falcos would even think about that one. I can also just time shorthop Nairs and that **** is done with. Same with uptilts or if I have godly timing, upsmash. Recommended to use fast moves to stop that. so why would I waste my time Fsmashing you out of it. See that is something a typical person would do. or just dumb. You know how many frames that move is, and to but it up against his F-B, why would you even think that is an option?

"But I will still hit you at head level while I F-B to the other side"

People forget you can aim your shield in this game. people dont do it, and I dont see why, this lil thing can save you so much. So yea, I'm not getting hit off air F-B's

So with this, your F-B tatic is **** to me and nothing to put fear in my heart in this match. Now about these stupid lasers and set ups that follow.

Keep in mind this is still with in a stocks worth. No stocks lost. When I get pass your laser camping like nothing and get close to you, here is what you would likely do:

- F-B (air or ground)
- Jab
- Jab>w/e
- D-B (mostly due to you may think I wanna get close and attack you)
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)
- Grab (you be surprised)

Not lets do this again, this time telling you what I would do:

- F-B= Look at what I said on this move. so yea, I dont even need to go over this one.
- Jab= short hop or Float to Dairs or go behind and Bair. I would usually get off that typical float Peach game crap and just shorthop dairs. faster then floating and cuts a few frames off. And if I happen to get caught in the Jab, TDI behind and bair him, done.
- Jab >w/e= Most common thing I have seen is Jab to grab. This depends on how close you are. so its ether give or take a beating.
- D-B= Shield and move in with w/e
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)= And so says I always have to throw the first punch? You are the one that is in the corner. You have no space in front (cause of me) and none at the back (Near the edge). I have all the room I need behind me if anything. And I have you in front of me, which is how I like it. Your camping in this case is limited~none. Just how I wanted. Now you are forced to fight me or figure out how to break away. Which I got no problem dealing with Now you might wanna get fancy and run behind me and pivot grab, or short hop Dairs for a get away? then I have to decided:

- Attack out of shield?
- Dish an attack once you react?

-Grab= Need I really go through this one?

"Oh but what if I did ".........................." or I baited to "............................." then I........................."

ok then every answer you gave me for your situation I have one just for you.

"its all about predicting so how you having answers for my tactics or set ups?"

Dude, you are doing the same thing, You seem to act like you know everything I can do. You are no mind reader. And Nether am I. things I do you can take care of. Things you do I can take care of. I am not limited to handling your problems. Yet you and the rest seem to think that. I could do something to stop w/e you are doing, and fail. Could try it again and get you. Same applies for you. Its a cycle. there is nothing I can stop and there is nothing I can't stop.

Everyone is taking this laser crap to a level it is seriously not needed to be.

Oh, and if falco is the one comming to you with lasers. It's even better for you.

So what did we learn here?

- Falcos lasers dont stop you from getting to him and dont have to take the hits to get in. You can get to falco without eating lasers. (laser game is done)

- if he wannas to be a clown and F-B to laser to camp and get damage. I already staed how to stop it both air and ground. Last falco that tried this got beat up for it bad.

- When you get close to falcos, they expect you to throw the first punch. You really don't have too. If anything falco really does, he is the one pinned to a corner. He is in the danger situation, not you. You can cover all his options from where you are and beat his azz

" Oh but what if I am not in a corner what if you get close to me and I am center stage?"

You still have to quit with the lasers and do something like:

- Jab
- Jab>w/e
- D-B (mostly due to you may think I wanna get close and attack you)
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)
- Grab (you be surprised)

Your F-B option here is limited, for you wont get far or risk an SD off the stage. Don't think a falco would be that stupid right?

Now me and You are still in a match and a stock just got taken off. Buy who and how? By anyone and by cuase that I explained. Now the match is going back and fourth here. But who won? The winner is not decided by match up advantage, cause there isnt one and I went through it. The wineers was decided by who out smarted who and who ever reacted quicker. "

swordsaint said:
So we've essentially got most of Peaches strengthes covered. I think ONE of our only concerns is the reasonable strength of her toadstool counter if we get trigger happy. Though I personally think the attack is too slow, predictable and all in all useless since Falco heavily relies on grabs.

Toad is not all that good unless you know falco will move in with lasers to start his stuff.

swordsaint said:
Falco has plenty OoS options as well to cover anything Peach can dish out. Peach on the other hand has very little to often in the sense of punishing a well-spaced shield pressuring attack.

Peach has lots of options out of shield.

-Jab
-Fair
-Turnip
-Glide toss
-Bair
-Retreated Forces for spacing and you dare chase. All good way to evade and get space.
-Ftilt
-Groundfloat out of shield to air attacks.
-Short hoped Dairs.

swordsaint said:
ALL of falco's attacks are still useful in this match-up, whereas Peach loses a lot of her options, and personally I think that makes a huge impact here.

Peach can still keep her otpions. She has both an air and ground came and they all have good options. If you cover the air, we take it to the ground, and the other way around.

swordsaint said:
Peach bomber is useless when used in the face of a worthy adversary anyway.

Not many people know I can gimp your recovery with this move.

swordsaint said:
Falco can easily Spike Peach as well due to her horrendous recovery. Peach won't easily gimp Falco however unless he's low and she can do a good turnip throw. Good luck getting a good Falco low though Peach. Hello DI.

I assure you sir Peach is no where easy to just pull that at all. Hello up-B. And once you are off stage it is a mission just to get back since your recovery is not good. And I have so many ways to recover.

F-B (does this twice in the air and you would have made more than half a stage length distance.
Toad
Floating
Second jump
Up-B

When I get launched, I momentum cancel then Do F-B. I can get over the stage with just 2 of them. And then I still have my other recovery options I did not burn just incase I get launched before touching the floor. Don't underestimate her recovery like so many people do, cause when I start making it back o some crazy stuff, people are like "WTF? holy crap that was smart." I hardly die cause I can't make it back to the stage.

swordsaint said:
So with all that taken in to consideration, my personal opinion of this match-up is 60-40 Falco, or possibly even 65-35 Falco.

Now in general:

Dark.Pch says: 50-50

The Bad: Falco is terrible off the stage, and not hard to keep him out. his Up-B does not go as Far as Fox. So most of the time, he has to F-B to the stage. Now this Peach can take advantage of with ground floater Nairs or Bairs. (If your timing is Godly, Fairs) Falco lags when shooting lazers on the ground, and they come out slower on the ground than in the air, due to how he gets in that fancy pose to shoot. Falco, can't kill Peach too well. His Solid Kill move is his Fsmash, and even that does not get the job done unless its a critical hit. Upsmash wont be killing you till like maybe 120+ Same with Dsmash. Around those numbers. When Peach keeps the pressure on falco, he can't use his lasers, and Peach can run all over him and eat that shield. he is not all that quick nether, so you can keep up with him. Peach can snipe him off of his recoverey with turnips. Both F-B and U-B. He can't chaingrab grab you. Once he down throws you at low %, just Nair. You do this and falco can NEVER chain grab Peach at all. His next best option would be a dashattack to upsmash. But Peach can chaingrab him to mid %.

The Good- Falco can screw both Peach's air and ground game while moving in. Since he does not lag touching the floor while shotting lasers, he can keep doing it while retreating or moving in. This also makes it hard for Peach to get turnips. And if he wanted to be an azz, he can F-B to the other side if he is cornered and repeat the process. His reflector stays in affect even when it goes back to falco. I'm sure people got hit with thier own turnips or w/e once falco has but his relfector away. And then at that same time, he can whip it out again. So He seriously can not be touched with a projectile this way. That Fsmash he has is killing you quick, even from behind. When comming back to the stage, falco can screw up her second jump and she can't float or shoot her out of it. Falco can Jump pretty high. he can set Peach up this way to keep you out or hit you with an air attack for the K.O Bair could do it of an up-air. Also a Dair but that not something to rely on. But trust me, you dont wanna get hit with that move at high damage. More damage Peach have, the harder it is to meteor cancel to recovery/break out the stun. And that move launches you fast. Falco is kinda hard to kill due to how heavy he is and peach having trouble killing in general..

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

dark peach ladys and gents.

BleachigoZX · Jul 8, 2009

I think if we camp near Peach, it is easy. Far away is too easy for Peach to react to. She isn't fast enough to hit us unexpectedly.

@Dark Peach:
Falco's Phantasm is a lot more flexible than you are making it sound.

*MYONLYINPUTIMNOTTHATEXPERIENCEDHERE*

Dark.Pch · Jul 8, 2009

Typ_Ex said:
dark peach ladys and gents.

Ha ha ha.

BleachigoZX said:
I think if we camp near Peach, it is easy. Far away is too easy for Peach to react to. She isn't fast enough to hit us unexpectedly.

@Dark Peach:
Falco's Phantasm is a lot more flexible than you are making it sound.

*MYONLYINPUTIMNOTTHATEXPERIENCEDHERE*

Never underestimated the move, just saying what Peach can do about it. And if you camp near me, I don't have to go near you and risk damage.......you are right here. I can just nair your life out of stuff. You are best doing it from afar where it is harder to hit and get to you. Also camping near me can leave you open for combos, ****.

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

peach will wreck. although i disagree w/ dark, i think its 60/40 peach, maybe more 55/45. its just in peach's favor from what ive seen.

Dark.Pch · Jul 8, 2009

Nah, I have played top falcos around here. It is not that easy to beat falco like that. I use to lose to falcos all the time. I could never beat him. Then got use to this match up and nowI can take him. But even after all that, its not in her Favor. It's even.

Typ_Ex · Jul 8, 2009

our resident peach player overtook me. so i suppose its my turn to step up.

Hawks go Caw · Jul 8, 2009

Isn't your resident Peach player KOSMOS? . . . .

Anyway, I agree with Dark in saying it's 50:50 or at best 55:45 for Falco. Falco ***** at the long range and can keep Peach out well enough to rack up a decent amount of damage when she appraoches. But once Peach gets inside her jab, throws, and Dash attack gives Falco a lot of problems. They can both rack up a lot of damage on each other, but since they both have trouble killing it's all about who can capitalize first. Peach sucks at killing horizontally, so high ceiling stages are probably best.

I don't believe that either can gimp each other all that well.

Notra · Jul 9, 2009

dark forgot about ftilr as an options. and phantasm can be cancelled. = u arent reading it. so saying u r goinf to read phantasm doesnt really work. now u could say an avg peach can read an avg falco phantasm. but not advance vs advance. id say a perfet falco would beat a peach depending on the nuetral. lvls that are non phantsmable go to peach.

Dark.Pch · Jul 9, 2009

Notra said:
dark forgot about ftilr as an options. and phantasm can be cancelled. = u arent reading it. so saying u r goinf to read phantasm doesnt really work. now u could say an avg peach can read an avg falco phantasm. but not advance vs advance. id say a perfet falco would beat a peach depending on the nuetral. lvls that are non phantsmable go to peach.

I can hardly make out what you just said here.

Typ_Ex · Jul 9, 2009

yes, it is kosmos. i would agree w/ the projectile thing, heck i even resort to it just for peach, but it sitll doesn't work.

AvoiD · Jul 9, 2009

I'm gonna have to agree with Dark on the matchup, 50-50, or even at the most, 55-45 Falco.

Pretty sure you cannot chaingrab Peach at all, and one d-throw to dair, I think the Peach would be able to float before she hits the ground, and still able to hit a Falco who just FF'ed the dair. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Falco's camping game ***** Peach, and as far as edgeguarding goes, I'd say it's about even if the Peach is smart. Is jab useful in this matchup? I think it is, but she can get out of it pretty easy iirc.

Peach can chaingrab and lead with 2-3 attacks right after from a down throw. Falco basically has no CG on her, so best option is D-throw to Upsmash/Boost smash; Depends on percentage.

Shield all hits of dair, and don't let your guard down as soon as its finished. Most usually lead up with an nair or jab if the dair doesn't hit. Falco's killing moves **** Peach's.

Falco:
-UpSmash
-FSmash
-DSmash
-Bair

Peach:
-Nair
-Usmash
-Fair

And sometimes Fsmash/Bair, but really high percents for it to kill with good DI.

Spacing yourself is the best option in this matchup, and not getting juggled.

My 2 cents, I'm not to experienced with this matchup either. >.<

Dark.Pch · Jul 9, 2009

Yea that pretty much it right here.

Also, if you are good at fighting upclose. You will get at Peach really well. I fear falcos that do this more than camping one. I rather have them camp me then go head to head with a smart one. Them dudes is leathal

AvoiD · Jul 9, 2009

A few questions.

How many hits does Peach's D-air have?

What's the highest percent Peach can cg Falco?

I'll post more when I think of them.

Vlade · Jul 9, 2009

Peach is pretty underrated, and can give falco trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

Firstly, Peach cannot be chaingrabbed, so dthrow follow-ups are going to be very essential in this match-up. Peach, on the other hand, DOES have a chaingrab on falco. 30% + ftilt. So be mindful of that.

Turnips. Falco shouldn't really have too much trouble with these, since he has the reflector and there's always the option of shielding. Watch out for Granny Turnips though, since they really hurt (even though they have a really low chance of coming out). Just because Peach is holding a Turnip, don't just mindlessly throw your reflector out because you'll just be punished. Be patient and space yourself out of range from the turnip with lasers, and shield if she gets really close and throws it. Only reflector when you're a decent distance away.

Peach enjoys following up turnips with floating aerials, especially dair for shield pressure. If she starts floating above you, shield the aerial and then immediately retaliate with SH Nair or bair OoS. Be sure to follow her DI because they're more than likely to float away after the aerial is finished, and use the appropriate aerial for wherever she is (behind, bair. Above or in front, nair).

Peach is very capable of gimping falco's phantasm, so be sure to sweetspot if you know they're not going to edgehog. It is possible to dair her out of the parasol, but it's probably just best to edgeguard with bairs and get as much damage as possible.

Falco has an easier time racking up damage, even without the chaingrab thanks to dthrow follow-ups, jabs, lasers, IAP's and aerials. In order for Peach to keep up, she needs to get in quite close to really pack a punch. But when she DOES get in, falco is in a world of pain.

Falco's best killing options are bair and usmash, although it would be more difficult to land a bair against Peach's aerial priority. Peach would probably go for gimps with nair or something on phantasm. She also has the almighty fair at her disposal, and utilt can kill surprisingly well. You do not want to be above peach anyway since she can outrange dair.

It's probably not a wise idea to pick japes against Peach. She actually does really well there, and we have no 0-death. It's not banworthy though.

Falco would want to play on FD and BF. I'd say the best bet though would be BF since it's hard for her to float above falco for dairs and whatnot (still possible), while the platforms give peach a hard time approaching.

In the past I've been CP'ed Luigi's Mansion, Delfino and RC. I'd probably ban Luigi's or RC but that's just me, it would depend on whether Luigi's is banned in your area.

Overall, I'd say 50:50, or possibly 55:45 falco's favour for this match-up. Falco has good damage racking and can space well, while peach has gimps, aerial priority, good edgeguarding and a chaingrab at her disposal.

Hawks go Caw · Jul 9, 2009

They're called stitch faces

jk i luv u.

I think Japes is good just because of it's ridiculously high ceiling and the fact that Falco has better horizontal kill moves and Dair and Phantasm spike where as Peach's only real way to spike us into water is Dtilt, which is pretty tough to land. The platforms make it a bit easier for Peach to counter camp us though.

Reflecting toad when Peach is at high percentages can kill . . . .

swordsaint · Jul 9, 2009

I'm changing my match-up to 55-45 or 60-40 still. I think Falco can play INSANELY fast. (Have you seen my Falco? lols) And tbh, even if Down throw > down air > regrab, doesn't work, I think a jump Bair comes out quick enough anyway, which would lead to moar laz0r5 anyway.

SH phantasms are practically lagless, what you talking about?

Dark.Pch · Jul 9, 2009

KuroZero said:
A few questions.

How many hits does Peach's D-air have?

What's the highest percent Peach can cg Falco?

I'll post more when I think of them.

4

around mid 30's I think

swordsaint said:
I'm changing my match-up to 55-45 or 60-40 still. I think Falco can play INSANELY fast. (Have you seen my Falco? lols) And tbh, even if Down throw > down air > regrab, doesn't work, I think a jump Bair comes out quick enough anyway, which would lead to moar laz0r5 anyway.

SH phantasms are practically lagless, what you talking about?

What Dthrow to Bair? If so, good luck with that one.

And you telling me that as soon as you touch the floor from a F-B, you can move right away as if Peach was to Fair then jab?

#HBC | ZoZo · Jul 9, 2009

Anyone knows the effects of buffering the chaingrab/the dair? (For falco, that is)

BleachigoZX · Jul 9, 2009

Dark Peach lives somewhat near me.

I want to play him now...

Come to Viridian City 5 this August!!

#HBC | ZoZo · Jul 9, 2009

BleachigoZX said:
Dark Peach lives somewhat near me.

I want to play him now... Come to Viridian City 5 this August!!

On the road x2
Oooo
On the road x2

On the road to Viridian City (I'm on my way I'm on the road x2)
On the road to Viridian City (I'm on the road)

We've built a team and we've been
training all day long long
We're on the road and getting' strong (getting strong)

Now here's the plan:
We're gonna' head down to the forest
Time to collect some Pokemon (gotta catch them all x2)

We keep on tryin' tryin'
And then we try some more
To stay together
And find a place worth fighting for

I'm on the road to Viridian City
Meet my friends along the way (I'm on the road)
We're on the road to Viridian City
I got a badge an the power to play

Gotta get there
I'm on my way
Gotta get there
Viridian City

I left my home and now I see a new horizon horizon)
But one day I'll come back to Pallet Town ( Im comin back coming back)
I'm on the road to become the greatest trainer
And I won't quit until I'm #1

We keep on trying
Then we try some some more We stay together and find a place worth fighting for

I'm on the road ( to Viridian City)
Meet my friends along the way
I'm on the road to Viridian City

I'm on the road I'm on the road to Viridian City (I'm on the road)
We're on the road to Viridian City ( Viridian City)
Meet my friend(meet my friends) along the way (come on let's play)
We're on the road to Viridian City.
I got my badge adn my power to play.
I'm on the road to Viridian City ( Viridian City)
Awaiting th challenge of another day
We're on the road to Viridian City ( Viridian City)
On the road to Viridian City.
On the road to Viridian City. x2

Marcbri · Jul 9, 2009

I think it's even too, Peach may have a hard time getting in, but when she gets in she's a beast and phantasm can be stopped easily by most of her moves.

To win, I think Falco should avoid being next to peach and especially try to kill her early and avoid her kill moves since she has killing problems too.

5-5

Notra · Jul 9, 2009

Xonar said:
Anyone knows the effects of buffering the chaingrab/the dair? (For falco, that is)

u can get 2 grabs but if u try to dair and atk out of it, peach can atk quicker. it wont work. better off upsmashing or gatling out of second dthrow.

BleachigoZX · Jul 9, 2009

Dark.Pch said:
And you telling me that as soon as you touch the floor from a F-B, you can move right away as if Peach was to Fair then jab?

Yeah, it is called the immediate aerial phantasm. It starts up slower than a normal Phantasm, but ends a whole lot quicker. It is near lag-less. On top of that it can be cancel to fool around with the opponent. I can cancel it on command (Only under pressure, I can't do it to show off...it's dumb) and it gets very annoying when you mix-up IAPhantasms with lasers. (I have been told

)

Also Xonar wins.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 9, 2009

I'm surprised Praxis or Edrees haven't wandered in here yet. I'll try give some input but discussing this paticular match up makes me want to claw my eyes out

You want to camp Peach as much as you can. Laser barrage her constantly, don't give her room to breath. Shoot both in the air and ground to prevent Floating and slow her down

DI up if you get hit by her Dair. Her main kill move will be her Fair, DI up/diagonally. Her Nair will stop Phantasm and if you're really unlucky/predictable she can Up Smash you

Peach can't be chaingrabbed at all. If you try going for a second one you'll probably get Naired. However, you can normally always follow up with something like an Up Smash on her at lower percents. Ironically, she has a chaingrab on Falco that will do up to 30-40%+ with her D Throw to a finisher like F Tilt at 0% when done properly. Watch out for her Floating and autocancel tricks and be aware of her Dash Attack - this is really useful vs Falco for pushing him back and avoiding punishment when spaced. If Peach like Glide Tossing Turnips in your face, catch them if you really want to or reflect but watch she doesn't bait that or you'll get an aerial to the face

Really, the key to winning against her is to harrass her with lasers as much as you can and keep her away by spacing and outranging her with moves like Bair. You might have a bit of trouble killing her if the Peach is really cautious. Also, watch out when you're off the edge. Phantasm will be outprioritzed by her Nair/other stuff and Turnips can really mess your recovery up. This is why you should always DI up/diagonally to limit this problem

I've never found Falco to be too horrible but that's not really saying much considering my location and the people I get to fight. I can't be bothered with any numbers, just keep things civil in this match up discussion cause there's a fair amount of disagreement over it

swordsaint · Jul 9, 2009

Oh I didn't mean, down throw > bair.

I meant, down throw > dair > FF > and then buffer a SH or full, whichever with an immediate bair. For instance, if we decide to land opposite of you, the Nair has less range backwards. (doesnt it?) so we should have time

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Jul 11, 2009

Why is everyone saying we cannot CG Peach?

I thought we could mini CG peach at 0% up to 18% with 2 grabs and then start the whole Tech Chasing thing with Dthrow > spike. But anyway that's of little consiquence.

swordsaint said:
Oh I didn't mean, down throw > bair.

I meant, down throw > dair > FF > and then buffer a SH or full, whichever with an immediate bair. For instance, if we decide to land opposite of you, the Nair has less range backwards. (doesnt it?) so we should have time

Wouldn't work. Anyone can react by the time falco even lands on the ground.

General question. Is angled Ftilt safe to use against Peach when floating?

Emperor Time · Jul 12, 2009

I tried the 2x cg->dair thing on Peach yesterday and she ended up in a somewhat neutral position-ready to attack.

I'm pretty sure Nair beats her Dair very, very, very, early. If you challenge it afterwards, you're probably eating foot. Her Usmash beats our Dair. Don't even try that diving dair crap.

Honestly, you should just laser and IAP. Jab is the only good move I see close quarters.

Just what I know so far. I'm here to learn about this MU.

Typ_Ex · Jul 12, 2009

__crystal____ said:
Why is everyone saying we cannot CG Peach?

cause me and the peach players dont think we can.

Praxis · Jul 14, 2009

Dark.Pch has not faced a good Falco.
Come to WC, I will sponsor you in a MM against DEHF or SK92. >_>

It's 60:40 Falco's favor. 65:35 on Final Destination and Jungle Japes, 60:40 on neutrals, 50:50 on Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise.

It's worth noting that you cannot CG Peach, but she can CG you. She edgeguards you really well. But Falco's camp game and reflector shuts down all of her options and he can predict and punish the few she has left, and she can't run fast which makes side-B difficult to catch up to if punishment is missed.

I think it's 60:40, Edrees thinks it's 60:40, DEHF thinks it's 60:40, I'm pretty sure if I asked SK92 he'd say it's 60:40 as well. (I've played both. I two stocked DEHF on Brinstar :3 and have lost multiple tournament sets to him)

Matchup discussion week 29 - Peach

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