Air Grab Releasing - Because I'm Lazy (Information Given)

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Since I don't feel like making a thread in every single character board to do this, and I know many are still untested I figured I'd make this thread and have people help me.

What I need:

1) Testers
2) People willing to do frame data (to show how many frames of error you are given)
3) More Testers
4) Someone to give me a list of every single character's people they can force an air release on stage. (EG: Snake can always force a grab release on Wario and many other characters) I know the parameters for this but I don't have a list and with my (2 minutes of searching) could not find one.

~~_______________________________________________~~
~~_______________________________________________~~

If something must be done near an edge (Marth's dair spike on MK) it will have * next to it
Once people do frame data/I decide to do frame data the list will be updated to include frames and such
Testing must be done with 2 controllers, 1 doing EVERY POSSIBLE OPTION (fastest aerial, move with SH/Invincibility frames, buffering everything, airdodges, etc.)

The reason I am bringing this up is because relatively recently us Snake mains found out we can boost grab or dash attack or DACUS certain characters due to their poor air release. (Squirtle, Ganon, Bowser, Sheik, Wolf, Falco, Meta Knight, and a few others)

I'd like this information to be for every character board. (I know the Marth boards have looked into this and the Wario boards basically know everything every character can do on them....) to be given to the public eye in a very easy to find manner.

Once I get the list of people who can force an air release I can get rid of those that aren't 100% guaranteed no matter what. ( I don't care if it's 100% guaranteed if the opponent is stupid and hits jump while they mash)

ABC Order for the people being grabbed, then ABC order (when I'm not feeling lazy) for what people can do to them.

It must be guaranteed always.

~~_______________________________________________~~

People important to test: Bowser, Captain Falcon, Falco, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Sheik, Squirtle, Wario, Wolf

Boost Grab, Dash Attack

Forward Air
Up Air

Dash Attack - - Will hit with weak hitbox.

DACUS

Forward Air
Up Air

Forward Air
Up Air

Regrab using Boost Grab
Dash Attack
DACUS

Boost Grab
Dash Attack
DACUS

Forward Air
Up Air

Side Special
Forward Air

Up Air
Forward Air
Back Air
Up-B

Up Special

Regrab using Dash Grab
Forward Air

Forward Air

Regrab using Dash Grab
Dash Attack
Forward Air
Up Special

:shiek:
DACUS

DACUS

Forward Air
Up Air
Forward Tilt

Dash Attack

Forward Air
Side Special

Forward Air
Side Special

Forward Air
Up Air

Dash Attack - - Will hit with weak hitbox.
Boost Grab?

Down Special

Forward Air
Down Air* - 3 frames
Side Special
Up Special

Dash Attack

:shiek:
Dash Attack
Running Up Smash - - Tips with side
DACUS - - Hits with sweetspot and side hit
Needles - - Fully Charged hits with 3/6 needles

Regrab using Dash Grab
Dash Attack
Forward Air
Up Special

DACUS

Forward Air
Up Air
Dash Attack
Regrab using Dash Grab?

* Needs to be spaced properly from the edge

Forward Air
Side Special

Forward Air
Side Special

Up Air

Forward Air

Regrab using Dash Grab
Dash Attack
Forward Air

Forward Air
Up Air

Forward Air
Up Air

:shiek:

Boost Grab? (needs frame testing)
DACUS

Regrab using Dash Grab
Dash Attack
Forward Air
Up Special

Forward Air*
Down Air*
Bite
Down Special*

* Needs to be spaced properly from the edge

Forward Air
Up Air

Dash Attack
Regrab using Dash Grab (or Dash 0> Shield Grab)
Forward Air*
* must be spaced properly from the edge

Dash Attack
Side Special
Down Special

Boost Grab? (Frame testing)
Dash Attack

Regrab using Dash Grab
Dash Attack
Forward Air
Side Special
Up Special

Regrab using Dash Grab?
DACUS

Forward Air

Up Air
Back Air
Up Tilt
Neutral Air

Up Air
Forward Air
Down Air
Neutral Air
Back Air
Up Special
Forward Smash (angled up)
Up Smash
Regrab using Grab

Forward Air
Neutral Air
Up Air
Down Air
Up Smash
Forward Smash
Up Tilt

Turn Around Up Tilt
Running Up Smash
Punch?

Up Smash
Forward Air
Up Air
Down Air
Back Air
Neutral Air
Forward Tilt
Up Tilt
Bite
Down Special

Regrab using Pivot Grab
Up Tilt
Forward Tilt
Forward Tilt angled up
Bair
Quick Draw
Aether

:shiek:
Regrab using Pivot Grab
Up Smash
Forward Air
Up Air
Back Air
Neutral Air
Down Air
Needles
Up Special?

Forward Air
Up Air
Forward Smash angled up
Up Tilt
Neutral Air
Regrab using Grab*
* Only at the ledge

Regrab using Grab
Forward Smash
Up Smash
Down Smash
Dash Attack
Side Special
Up Special
Forward Air
Back Air
Down Air
Neutral Air
Forward Tilt
Up Tilt
Jab

Up Smash
Regrab

Up Smash
Regrab
Up Tilt?

DACUS

Forward Air

Useful Data:

Air Release (ON+OFFSTAGE) frames, thank you Kirk. <3

Kirk said:
SUSA ADDITION:
Onstage denotes onstage.
Offline is off stage.
Distances not mentioned, hopefully someone will find a way to test to give relatively accurate distances (since 51 frames won't matter if the person breaks half the stage away from you.

/END SUSA ADDITION

Onstage): 54
Offstage): 51

Onstage): 50 [Hard Landing]
Offstage): 51

51

51

51

51

Onstage): 46 [Hard Landing]
Offstage): 51

Onstage): 29 [Soft Landing]
Offstage): 51

51

Onstage): 51 [Hard Landing]
Offstage): 51

51

51

51

50

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

51

:shiek:
Onstage): 36 [Soft Landing]
Offstage): 51

51

51

Onstage): 54 (retesting needed)
Offstage): 51

51

51

Onstage): 38 [Soft Landing]
Offstage): 51

51

51

51

Zankoku · Jul 9, 2009

Marth dair needs to be done at a specific spacing from the ledge and has a 3-frame window of success. Marth also has grab release side+B and grab release up+B on Meta Knight. Sheik has grab release dash attack, running usmash, DACUS, and needles on Meta Knight. Wario kind of gets grab release combo'd by anyone taller than him.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Knew about the dair, didn't know the frames. Thank you.

Knew about Sheik DACUS forgot to include, didn't know you could do the first 2.... if so, why DACUS? lol Also do the needles need to be SH/FH or what?

Also I know about Wario... <_< I'll start adding the things I know...

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

Oh god...Bowser has a field day with so many characters in the air.

Bowser can regrab MK, Falco, Diddy, Ganon, Squirtle, Sheik, and Wario from a jump release. Those are all I remember from memory, but I'm sure there's a couple more.

And Bowser can Fair a crapload of people as well. I forget, but you can look in Vex's thread. lol

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Mind linking me to Vex's thread? lol I'm still searching for other things...

*looks at Wario*

EDIT:

Bowser is easier to find, taking a break off Wario. <_<

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

Here's the Bowser grab release thread.

I made a Wario grab release thread a long time ago, showing what Wario can do to other characters out of a grab release. Guaranteed followups are listed in the topic, but I'll post them here as well.

-DACUS on Diddy
-DACUS on Lucas
-DACUS on MK
-DACUS on Squirtle
-Chaingrab on Squirtle
-Fair on Sheik, provided you grab her over a ledge
-Dair on Sheik, provided you grab her over a ledge
-Waft on Sheik, provided you grab her over a ledge. (both 1/2 charge and full charge waft work)
-Bite on Sheik, provided you grab her over a ledge. (seemed legit when I tested it months ago, but someone should test it again to make sure)
-Ftilt on Wario
-Utilt on Wario
-Nair on Wario
-Fair on Wario
-Bair on Wario
-Uair on Wario
-Dair on Wario
-Usmash on Wario
-Bite on Wario
-Waft on Wario (all varieties)

EDIT: Oops, gave the wrong link. FIXED.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

I'll take your word that Wario can force a grab release on those you mentioned.

I'm weary on adding ledge specific things.... :/ there is a ton of them, but I guess I should. >.<

Also a lot of the Bowser stuff isn't on because the opponent has to input a jump command to force an air break when mashing out....making it not guarenteed...

EDIT:

Added what you stated. I'm a bit testy on the DACUS on Lucas though... IIRC he has a long time he can jump/fair... <_< but I haven't tested much on him in forever...

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

SuSa said:
I'll take your word that Wario can force a grab release on those you mentioned.

Yup, Wario forces a jump release on these characters. Tested it myself.

Also a lot of the Bowser stuff isn't on because the opponent has to input a jump command to force an air break when mashing out....making it not guarenteed...

Depends on the character. Bowser forces a jump release for a lot of characters, so many of his followups are indeed guaranteed.

In the case of someone like MK, Bowser has some guaranteed followups on him well. Regrab has already been mentioned, but Dash Attack and Fair are guaranteed as well.

Added what you stated. I'm a bit testy on the DACUS on Lucas though...

Lucas has a terrible grab release animation. Not the worst, but still pretty bad.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

I meant that Bowser has guarenteed followups on characters like let's say... Charizard... but that's only if the Charizard inputs a jump command while mashing out so forces an air break.

I'm talking about things that no matter what your opponent does - they will get hit.

I'm also not going to include footstools unless harrassed to......

EDIT:

I think me and Vex skipped Lucas thinking he'd be like Ness. LMAO.... we just did ground release stuff

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

SuSa said:
I meant that Bowser has guarenteed followups on characters like let's say... Charizard... but that's only if the Charizard inputs a jump command while mashing out so forces an air break.

The thing about Bowser is that he usually forces a lot of his opponents to jump release. Tall characters like Charizard are the obvious exception. But it really doesn't matter, since Charizard is screwed if he ground releases too. lol

I'm talking about things that no matter what your opponent does - they will get hit.

That's pretty much the case with Bowser. He hits you no matter what you do. lol

I think me and Vex skipped Lucas thinking he'd be like Ness. LMAO.... we just did ground release stuff

Ness's jump release is fun to exploit, because he doesn't really go anywhere. lol

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

MrEh said:
The thing about Bowser is that he usually forces a lot of his opponents to jump release. Tall characters like Charizard are the obvious exception. But it really doesn't matter, since Charizard is screwed if he ground releases too. lol

That's pretty much the case with Bowser. He hits you no matter what you do. lol

Ness's jump release is fun to exploit, because he doesn't really go anywhere. lol

This entire thread is dedicated to air releases, not ground. (I feel more boards have looked into their ground releases... but few have looked into air releases from what I've noticed.

I know Charizard is screwed if he ground releases as well.

But that's besides the point.

I know that as well, used to secondary Bowser. (Still use him often in friendlies)

It's unpunishable by Snake.

So we ground release him to ftilt/regrab/utilt...

Red-Blue · Jul 9, 2009

First.

10timemachines

Bellioes · Jul 9, 2009

Well Diddy can do any aerial to Wario out of an air release over the edge(sorry buts its another ledge trick

) He can even do the really slow Dair for the spike.

Also, Id be willing to help with testing. Ill start with Diddy. Expect the list of all the characters he can force an air release on by the end of the day.

Denzi · Jul 9, 2009

Falco can DACUS Metaknight out of an air release.

Zankoku · Jul 9, 2009

SuSa said:
Knew about Sheik DACUS forgot to include, didn't know you could do the first 2.... if so, why DACUS? lol Also do the needles need to be SH/FH or what?

Needles is kinda bad. Fully charged, you'll clip MK with three out of the six that you throw. Dash attack is easy, running upsmash has a smaller timing window than DACUS (but is easier to input, obviously), and DACUS hits roughly twice as hard as a simple running upsmash, since the former only lands the side hit.

Oh, and I think Yoshi has an infinite regrab on Wario. Not sure though. Can definitely combo into usmash, either way.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Ankoku said:
Needles is kinda bad. Fully charged, you'll clip MK with three out of the six that you throw. Dash attack is easy, running upsmash has a smaller timing window than DACUS (but is easier to input, obviously), and DACUS hits roughly twice as hard as a simple running upsmash, since the former only lands the side hit.

Oh, and I think Yoshi has an infinite regrab on Wario. Not sure though. Can definitely combo into usmash, either way.

Details like this would be lovely. I'll update the Snake ones I know.

ShadowLink84 · Jul 9, 2009

Information on what Sonic can do to other characters from a grab release.

Mario: Fair, Uair
Dk: Fair, Uair
Link: none
Samus: none
Kirby: none
Fox: none
Pikachu: Fair, Uair (timing is very strict though)
Marth: none
&W: none
Luigi: None
Diddy: Fair Uair
Sheik: Fair Uair
Zelda: none
Pit: Fair, Uair
MK: Fair, Uair, Dash attack, possible regrab
Falco: none
Squirtle: none
Ivysaur: havent tested
Charizard: havet tested
Ike: Fair, Uair
Snake: Far, Uair
Peach: none
yoshi: didnt test
Ganondorf: Fair, Uair
IC's: Havent tested
DDD: haven tested
Wolf: none
Lucario: none
Ness: ground release;Dash grab, Ftilt, dash attack.
air release; Uair
Sonic: Fair, Uair
Bowser: Fair, Uair
Wario: Fsmash (Angled), Utilt, Uair, Nair, Fair, infinte on the ledge.
TL: didnt test
Rob: didnt test
Oli: didnt test
jiggl: none
Lucas: Ftilt, Fair, Uair

He has to chase them though so the timing is quite difficult so I am not sure about all of them.

Yoshi has a grab release on him though.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
Information on what Sonic can do to other characters from a grab release.

Mario: Fair, Uair
Dk: Fair, Uair
Pikachu: Fair, Uair (timing is very strict though)
Diddy: Fair Uair
Sheik: Fair Uair
Pit: Fair, Uair
MK: Fair, Uair, Dash attack, possible regrab
Ike: Fair, Uair
Snake: Far, Uair
Ganondorf: Fair, Uair
Ness:air release; Uair
Sonic: Fair, Uair
Bowser: Fair, Uair
Wario: Fsmash (Angled), Utilt, Uair, Nair, Fair, infinte on the ledge.
Lucas: Ftilt, Fair, Uair

He has to chase them though so the timing is quite difficult so I am not sure about all of them.

Yoshi has a grab release on him though.

Made the quote easier on me. Difficulty doesn't matter so long as they work.

I'm curious as to why you guys have nothing on Wolf. oo

EDIT:

Some of these (Snake) don't seem... like they'd work. <_< except over edge possibly?

MysticKenji · Jul 9, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5721949&postcount=2

from the ike boards

Remzi · Jul 9, 2009

Not 100% sure but I think Marth can fair G&W on an air release.

Supermodel From Paris · Jul 9, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197763

FadedImage made this thread for the ZSS boards a while ago. Because of ZSS' one frame jab, and weird grab the thread has a lot of information. We have grab-release chain grabs on Pikachu and MK, and a grab-release infinite on Squirtle, and maybe one or two other characters.

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

Sonic has tons of grab release options on the entire cast.

Too bad Sonic can't force (m)any of them to jump out. lol

Matt07 · Jul 9, 2009

Woah what? Mario has grab releases on Bowser and Sonic?

Hmm...I thought Mario didn't have any.

MrEh · Jul 9, 2009

Matt07 said:
Woah what? Mario has grab releases on Bowser and Sonic?

Mario can't force Bowser to jump release, so he technically doesn't have anything guaranteed.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Matt07 said:
Woah what? Mario has grab releases on Bowser and Sonic?

Hmm...I thought Mario didn't have any.

Someone didn't read.... that is stating what Bowser and Sonic can do to Mario.

Weird formatting is weird, but I don't feel like fixing it. (would've been much easier to just say what each character can to do each other character)

GTR! · Jul 9, 2009

This is a great thread. No need to add anything about Snake since you have all of that already im assured, so i guess I have nothing to add.

Don't mean to spam or anything, just wanted to say this thread is really helpfull.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Snake may have an air release thing on Lucas, I don't think me and Velox tested that. <_< So if someone would like to test that..........

EDIT:

Also I guess this format works.. let's you find your main and see who can do what to you.

xLeafybug =D · Jul 9, 2009

Ankoku said:
Needles is kinda bad. Fully charged, you'll clip MK with three out of the six that you throw. Dash attack is easy, running upsmash has a smaller timing window than DACUS (but is easier to input, obviously), and DACUS hits roughly twice as hard as a simple running upsmash, since the former only lands the side hit.

Oh, and I think Yoshi has an infinite regrab on Wario. Not sure though. Can definitely combo into usmash, either way.

Yoshi does have an infinite regrab on Wario, but he has to be at past a certain percentage before it will work (I believe it's around 50ish+%)

ph00tbag · Jul 9, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197763

ZSS's grab release thread. We still need to test if short stepping works on anyone.

Edit: haha, SFP already did it.

Prawn · Jul 9, 2009

Confused about air releasing/ground releasing,

can someone give me a short summary on it?

EDIT: Nvm figured it out, doing some research now haha

Sinz · Jul 9, 2009

Snake grabbing metaknight with a boost grab is a no go. The nair comes out barely too soon for a boost grab, a dash attack works however.

It might be me messing up, but i have never gotten it off against my friend when he is just mashing a.

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Sinz said:
Snake grabbing metaknight with a boost grab is a no go. The nair comes out barely too soon for a boost grab, a dash attack works however.

It might be me messing up, but i have never gotten it off against my friend when he is just mashing a.

It trades hits or you get it. I can't tell if it's me or the MK messing up. :laugh:

I really do need frame data on this tested with the grab performed separately on each frame or something....

EDIT:

@banana

Air Releasing can be shown easy. Grab Wario with basically any character taller then him. Do not pummel. He will air release.
Diddy Kong and have your opponent be Snake. Snake should ground release.

Sinz · Jul 9, 2009

On Snake releasing Wario. His Nair they can DI through and uair. Just a little warning to the snakes out there :D

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Sinz said:
On Snake releasing Wario. His Nair they can DI through and uair. Just a little warning to the snakes out there :D

We know this. Most characters can SDI or DI out of the nair. <_<

However it's harder said then done and I've rarely seen people DI out if I simply follow where I think they will go.

Also full hop it, don't double jump it.

Sinz · Jul 9, 2009

I realized a little bit after I posted, that my comment was a tad off topic sorry about that.

I have about an hour with a friend tomorrow I can test with. Which characters would you like me to test against(I am going to use the characters you listed as priority)

SuSa · Jul 9, 2009

Test against the characters listed + Lucas because apparently Lucas has a poor release. :x

Prawn · Jul 10, 2009

**** SoPo he doesn't get air release against anyone.

SuSa · Jul 10, 2009

BananaHammock said:
**** SoPo he doesn't get air release against anyone.

He might at the ledge. And ledge air release > Ice block might be useful against some? (Sheik) to edgeguard. lol

Just giving you an idea to test.

Prawn · Jul 10, 2009

SuSa said:
He might at the ledge. And ledge air release > Ice block might be useful against some? (Sheik) to edgeguard. lol

Just giving you an idea to test.

Didn't even try the edge yet, silly me.

Alright, I'm gonna be up lateeee working with this.

smashkng · Jul 10, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229917
That's Ganon grab release thread. I think there are things missing there though. But Ganondorf can regrab Wario after a grab release. It has amazing vertical grab range. It's small step chain grab.

Air Grab Releasing - Because I'm Lazy (Information Given)

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