Diddy kong match up discussion

So guilhe asked me to make the thread for this match up since he is busy for a week or so.

Well now that thats out of the way discuss. This is an odd match up IMO because diddy isn't a character that has big advantages over others yet the match up can be hard if you don't know what to do and to top it off diddy is a very versatile character.

Main match up thread: [LINK]

I love this match-up. It's so much fun to play out IMO. While it's very momentum based, both characters can easily break momentum going against them and change it to their favor. I personally believe this either 5-5, or 45-55 from Ike's prospective, but lean heavily towards 5-5.

At first glance, one would believe this match-up is Diddy Kong's favor. He has faster attacking speed, a projectile, faster movement, and the bananas, why wouldn't it look that way? However, this is not the case.

While Diddy Kong has the advantage in speed, he looses quite heavily in range, disjointed hitboxes and power. Ike's Fair effectively shuts down all of Diddy Kong's aerial approaches with room to spare, maybe even Nair stops all of Diddy Kong's aerials but I'm not positive on that one. Fair also beats out Diddy Kong's ground approaches while remaining safe thanks to IASA frames.

Of course, people are probably asking "Why the heck would a smart Diddy Kong approach Ike? He can just stay back and play the peanut spamming, banana controling game and force Ike to approach." And the answer to that is the fact Ike can also take control of at least one banana rather easily, which disrupts Diddy Kong's game plan. Think about what happens if a banana is on the ground, and both Ike and Diddy go for it. Ike's dash attack comes out quick, propels him forwards a step, and hit a very large range in front of himself with a lingering hitbox. It would beat out Diddy Kong's cartwheel or aerial attempt to nab the banana back. Or Nairing to grab the banana, same thing would happen.

One might also point out "What on earth can Ike do with a banana? It locks him to just B moves, which are all VERY situational. Again, this is true, but Ike can indeed use the banana effectively. First of all, he could just throw it downwards onto the ground and play keepaway. Not the most effective thing, but it's an option. Secondly, he could just throw the at Diddy Kong. This can work, but Diddy could also just catch the banana. It's a gamble, but a very dangerous one in Diddy's case. If he gets hit by it, Ike will punish him for it, but hard. Another option is assuming something like Dash Attack was used, and Diddy is off stage, in which case could use it in an attempt to gimp Diddy. Hey, a free item to screw up Diddy's jetpack is a free item.

But Ike's best option is DACIT. I think most Ikes have seen the video where Kirk DACIT'd with a Diddy's banana, hit him, and then nailed him with a reverse Fsmash as he flew by. (A link would be nice incase one of the Diddy Kong players hasn't seen it yet) Ike can do many things out of DACIT: regrab the banana, jab to pivot grab to Bthrow off the stage, Usmash, Fsmash, Ftilt, Utilt, Counter, all of that while sliding extremely far. The only down side is the running start required to get it going, which is thankfully not very far, but enough to give Diddy Kong a small heads up.

Moving on pass the bananas: Diddy Kong can gimp Ike fairly easily, but what else is new. >_> QD is blah blah blah jump in front of it, Aether is drop a banana into it/use an attack with at least some amount of disjointedness. Ike can somewhat gimp Diddy's Rocket Pack easily, as if it needs charging it gives Ike enough time to set up for a Dair or walk-off Fair. Just watch out for the flying run away rockets.

Jab is effective against Diddy Kong as usual, stops his flying peanuts and any bananas thrown your way, ect. Ike will likely KO Diddy Kong with something like Jab -> Utilt, Full Jab combo -> edgeguard, something out of DACIT, Uair due to the fact Diddy Kong can't do much if Ike's below him or Diddy Kong making a mistake. Diddy Kong will likely get his kills with gimps, or one of his smashes, though those kills won't be until later %s.

For stages, ban FD. For neutrals, I usually aim for Pokemon Stadium. The changing of the stage can really disrupt banana positioning, and I like to DACIT during the stage transformation while the smoke is along the ground. Not only does it kinda help hide the fact I have a banana in my hand, the Diddy Kong player may (hopefully) be not 100% focused on Ike, but on how he's going to lay out his bananas for this stage, or how there positioning maybe be changed. That last bit is all speculation on my part obviously. Battlefield as also usable, yays for a superior platform game.

For CPs, Pirate Ship is a no brainer. Avoid something like Brinstar or Norfair. Diddy Kong can control the top platforms while the lava is in the way and screw Ike over more then the lava will screw Diddy Kong's game over. You could be gutsy and try PS2. The wind and electric fields would seriously hamper Diddy Kong's game (IMO, correct me if I'm wrong). Rainbow Cruise is also a good option for Ike, as he should be winning the air battles due to his range.

Please don't bring up DACIT every post like it is THAT game changing Using dacit is not using bananas well, though it does help.

To be successful in the Diddy match up you must use bananas to your advantage. Whether it is using them to trip to set up an approach to getting rid of them, you must make these decision with haste, considering there is a good chance he has another one.

Learning to Z-catch is very useful to obtain bananas for your own advantage. Especially when you learn to auto throw them. Not sure of the actual name, but you airdodge then quicly use the c-stick as if you were throwing it and it will come out a lot sooner.

The problem that ike has in this match-up is keeping pressure and not getting punished. Ike's most damage racking approach options consist of a nair leading to a bair or jab combo. But this first nair can send you into a world of pain. Considering it can be easily shield grabbed or you can trip on 1 of 2 bananas that option still exists but has far less openings. Spacing fairs can be fairly successful but it does have a lot of lag after it, so if you do miss you can be eating some bananas, dash attacks, or grabs. The main point of keeping pressure is to not let Diddy Kong pick bananas. When he has no bananas, that is when you as Ike can go on the offensive. Many diddy kong are infamous for not being able to battle without a banana so, a diddy kong might run away and pick one. These banana picks are easy to punish and the bananas are easy to obtain. You must make the most of the time you have when diddy kong doesn't have bananas...hell.. or even just one. The second the diddy kong knocks you off the edge, forcing you to grab the ledge, that gives the player enough time to set up with two perfectly placed bananas which brings ike into the a position where he is at a disadvantage.

Nidtendo pretty much covered everything concerning DACIT so.. woot!

This match-up can be hard for ike especially if you do not know how to handle bananas but it is definetely not unwinnable. I would say it is 6.5-3.5 - 6-4 Diddy Kongs advantage. Probably more 6-4.

Lol pirate ship. Other good picks are Yoshi's Island. Some diddy's hate that stage because of the large plat form. I actually enjoy that stage with ike.

-Senior Critic Palpi

Nidtendofreak said:

I personally believe this either 5-5, or 45-55 from Ike's prospective, but lean heavily towards 5-5.

Click to expand...

I stopped reading after that.

J/k, but seriously, Diddy does pretty well against Ike, especially on stages that don't have no or very little platforms. PS1 sounds like a good place to take Diddy, but so does BF. Diddy players always seem to strike that stage though.

You are right also on this match being mostly momentum. Diddy hits hard when he has it going, and Ike pretty much has to get his bits and pieces here and there.

I don't feel like going into much detail about advantages and disadvantages, but in my humble opinion, and the experience I've had against Diddy players, it's more of a 6-4 in Diddy's favor.

I forgot about glide glossing, the only character I use that can do that is G&W, and not only his his very hard to do, he rarely gets to use it. My bad.

If you are going to throw it once you get it, learn to z-catch instant throw. I practiced it a decent amount and it seemed to have helped.

Lul, I juggled bananas on top of a Diddy today. To play this match-up, you have to play with bananas. I honestly have no idea where to put the numbers because it varies SO MUCH by person. Maybe a slight Diddy's advantage. But seriously. The match really can depend on how you use the nanerz. I started a game out against a Diddy.. and I was doing really well.. then I lost momentum, he controlled his bananas better, and he got extremely close to reversing my 3 stock.
I recommend Ikes learn to read each Diddy's recovery to spike him out of Jetpack when he's below. Power shield bananas, don't spot dodge when they're thrown at you. I play pretty aggressive against Diddy.. it will work if you know what you're doing and have enough momentum.

Arturo, did you invite the Diddy board to come and discuss?

At the very worst it's a 6-4 for diddy, the matchup is pretty even all things considered especially if you have good DI and an idea of item control.

yes i did but your welcome to reinvite them.

Like everyone said and ryko just put into good words item control is the key to this match up but are there any things that a banana toss can garantee for Ike?

Z dropping to jab sounds pretty nice to me especially since you pick it right back up afterwards.

Jab is effective against Diddy Kong as usual, stops his flying peanuts and any bananas thrown your way,

Click to expand...

You're gunna need to explain how jabs stop Bananas to me... cause as far as i know there isn't a move in the game that isn't a reflector, or another item that stops bananas.

Bananas have laser priority? I seriously thought Jabs stopped thrown bananas.....and Ike's jab clanks out most projectiles that aren't lasers....

I could be wrong though. Like I said in the other match-up topic about Pit; I'm busy visiting relatives, and I can't check things myself.

I'd say this matchup is slightly in Diddy Kong's favor.

I play against renegade all the time, and I believe partly that playing me enabled his switched to a snake main (although he still plays ike a lot)

If diddy kong keeps his space and zones ike, then Ike has a very difficult time dealing with the bananas. However, diddy kong has NOTHING to contend with ike's jab. So the matches essentially become a spacing battle. However, the spacing diddy kong needs is much easier to achieve, partly due it ike's slow ground movement. Ike can also be annoyed by peanuts as stupid as it sounds.

Diddy kong can also all out camp ike, which makes the matchup difficult for ike also.

However, despite diddy kong's obvious advantages I don't think the matchup is more than slightly in diddy kong's favor. The fact that one read can give ike an early kill whereas ike can live to godly percentages against diddy is one thing going for ike. Another fact is that if Ike can somehow get inside diddy kong's defenses that he has a huge advantage is the other.

I'm sort of rambling now but I strongly feel that this matchup is only slightly in diddy kong's favor. It is also a favorite matchup of mine, as a lot of it seems as if it is a chess match.

Ike has the advantage up close, but diddy kong's superior spacing options win out here.

55:45 diddy kong.

I hope this helps-I think I'm one of the most qualified if not the most qualified diddy main to discuss this matchup due to my many matches with renegade (we also team often at tournies)

Nidtendofreak said:

Bananas have laser priority? I seriously thought Jabs stopped thrown bananas.....and Ike's jab clanks out most projectiles that aren't lasers....

I could be wrong though. Like I said in the other match-up topic about Pit; I'm busy visiting relatives, and I can't check things myself.

Click to expand...

It's not Lazer Priority, cause I've seen it hit the gyro and pounce off, but I've played many DK mains, and I have played DK for a long time and he can't swat them away with Ftilt. I'm almost positive the only thing that stops Bananas are other items and reflectors. Maybe another Diddy will know for sure.

What Mercutio said; reflectors are the only thing that stops bananas. A projectile or hit on the Diddy while the Diddy is holding a banana has a chance for the Diddy to drop the banana, too, but he keeps control of it.

I agree with everything that Count said. I'll be less lazy and type specifics later.

I've played ADHD's Diddy a lot and I have to say, attempting to edgehog Diddy is extremely difficult. Stalling Up B really works against Ike unless you time the edgehog perfectly or if the Diddy's recovering far. I think against Diddy, using Fair as an edgeguard is really effective, because a lot of Diddy's will Fliphop before they use Up B. It's just a matter of predicting the Fliphop and making sure he doesn't latch onto you with it, because once he latches onto you with Fliphop and kicks you downward, you won't be coming back. I really agree with most of what Count said. I have a question for both boards though: whose aerial game is better? Ike has range as an advantage for his aerials, but Diddy's aerial game is extremely good from what I have experienced and seen, especially OOS.

The diddy has to make a huge mistake to get edge hogged.

The jab is meant to catch the banana lol.

When you take a banana from diddy what is the best option to do with it? BTW what is OOS?

OoS = Out of Shield

You can try setting up traps of your own with bananas like plant one where the Diddy will land or w/e. Just be smart.

Also, with a banana, if you don't know how to use it effieciently, you can always throw it away.

The dacus is fairly predictable and you have to be fairly close to follow up a regular banana throw with someother other than a dash attack. Diddy's dash attack is great for picking them up so you can't aimlessly throw it in his direction hoping for a trip.

Airdodging onto a banana is a very easy way to pick them up as you are descending toward the ground aswell :D

Recommended stage counterpicking and banning

Counterpick

Rainbow Cruise
Diddy Kong’s banana placement is severely hindered in this stage;

Yoshi Island
Every time Diddy pulls a banana or hits his opponent’s shield with it, the banana falls in the platform above. This makes his banana catch with the DA more situational.

Banning

Final Destination
Sigh… Camping of course.

What do you guys think of Norfair?

ADHD took m2k to like 100% on RC. Plus they will ban it anyway.

Yoshi's is good.

Norfair would be a gamble. Of course, if stalling in the lava isn't banned by your TO, you don't have to worry about him pwning you because there was only one open platform and he had both bananas there...

You have been bringing up that lava stall a lot lately lol.

Norfair is dumb anyway, AZ thinks it is amazing for diddy.

Yes I am. Because it's amazing, that stage is legal in SA, and I apparently suck at Pirate Ship.