Zelda's Dthrow Spike

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

Once again i discovered something for Zelda lol. I have been doing a lot of testing and i see that Zelda can spike some characters using her dthrow near the ledge. The reason why it works is her dthrow puts them below her and send them at around a 45 degree angle (DI makes this a range of 0 to 90 degrees depending on character). So on Battlefield it causes them to hit the ledge and be sent downwards.

The reason why it works on some characters and not all is because of body shape. When they are sent backwards, part of their body gets caught on the ledge cause the weird effect, and in those cases a severe wall spike or a weird bounce from the dthrow. In the spike cases, it can always lead to them losing their stock, even from 0%. Falco for example its just impossible. Its the same effect if marth did his CG to dair....but worse. Even by some miracle he were to make almost make it back (if he knows it was coming), zelda can just edgehog or dair him.

The reason why it sometimes work on the right side and not the left is because the stages aren't symmetrical. IF u pay close attention to the structure of Battlefield, The right side doesn't match the left.

So i made some videos testing it to ALL CHARACTERS for the weird effects so they will be no question as to who it works on.

Here are the testing videos. Everyone knows my character select screen is weird so ur gonna have to see it to know whats the order

Mario to Lucas tested

MK to all 3 pokemon of PT Tested

ICs to ROB. Also tests on other possible stages for the weird effects.

Further testing on other stages and effects

MdrnDayMercutio · Jul 21, 2009

Thanks again NL. You gotta come out to Mass again so we can play. I need help passing the plateau I've reached. Cause you don't do enough in the community, you need to start giving private lessons too.

:mad: · Jul 21, 2009

Have you tried this yet on a platform? Like on Smashville?

SuSa · Jul 21, 2009

Weird how it's so inconsistent....

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

Straked said:
Have you tried this yet on a platform? Like on Smashville?

If u read my explanation, u wouldnt have asked this question. Platforms doesnt have WALLS to bounce from.

SuSa said:
Weird how it's so inconsistent....

Its very consistent. The body shape determines this. I do it twice on occasion just to make sure.

SuSa · Jul 21, 2009

Of the 3 times you displayed Falco in the first video, only 1 spiked. That's what I was speaking of.

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

SuSa said:
Of the 3 times you displayed Falco in the first video, only 1 spiked. That's what I was speaking of.

I'll explain this in the first post. The stages aren't symmetrical which is why it only worked on the right side and not the left.

Uffe · Jul 21, 2009

I'm not sure if it's possible for Fox or Falco to do this, but in Melee you could do a d-throw near the edge and your opponent would go launching downward while getting hit by the lasers. It's actually quite situational but can make good for an edgeguard.

SuSa · Jul 21, 2009

Figured it was something like that. Just forgot if you did it twice on one side of Falco.

I know the stages aren't symmetrical. It's why Link's Phantom Boomerang only works on the right side.

-Mars- · Jul 21, 2009

One of those things that is nice to know..................but never going to happen in a match. If what I saw from the vids was accurate, the opponent has to be nearly falling off of the stage.

Good s*** NL, I thank you for your continued efforts to contribute to the Zelda community.

SuSa · Jul 21, 2009

Grab a recovering opponent.

Still extremely situational.

But possible.

Kataefi · Jul 21, 2009

I was messing about with this after watching innocentroad's vid - it's amazing how there are still tiny complexities in certain moves that are still undiscovered. I find it more amazing how they're all for Zelda LOL! Very nice find.

If you want any help testing things out let me know.

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

marsulas said:
One of those things that is nice to know..................but never going to happen in a match. If what I saw from the vids was accurate, the opponent has to be nearly falling off of the stage.

Good s*** NL, I thank you for your continued efforts to contribute to the Zelda community.

I did this with sonic vs D3 and ur back has to be on the ledge. I'm sure i can land this on someone. If someone is doing a normal getup u can easily get this.

Kataefi said:
I was messing about with this after watching innocentroad's vid - it's amazing how there are still tiny complexities in certain moves that are still undiscovered. I find it more amazing how they're all for Zelda LOL! Very nice find.

If you want any help testing things out let me know.

I was thinking about this for months after i found the sonic one. Just didnt get a chance to. Once i saw the vid im like *** i forgot about it so i did the testing for it.

Make sure everyone u see all the vids. Its nots just BF its also smashville and frigate.

SuSa · Jul 21, 2009

NinjaLink said:
I did this with sonic vs D3 and his ur back has to be on the ledge. I'm sure i can land this on someone. If someone is doing a normal getup u can easily get this.

I'm assuming D3 is facing left, with his back on the ledge -and you grab him.

Also, it's still rather situational... normal getup, getup attack?, or a grab while they are recovering are your only options really.

(Some may have grab releases, but not Zelda AFAIK)

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

SuSa said:
I'm assuming D3 is facing left, with his back on the ledge -and you grab him.

Also, it's still rather situational... normal getup, getup attack?, or a grab while they are recovering are your only options really.

(Some may have grab releases, but not Zelda AFAIK)

Zeldas has the opponents back to the ledge. Sonics has ur back to the ledge.

MdrnDayMercutio · Jul 21, 2009

One potential use I can already think of that makes this some what viable is in teams.

I'm a Diddy main that used/sometimes teams with a Zelda. Banana trips can easily lead to the dash grab needed to get them off the stage. It's how Diddy Kong get's his GR on Wario. Or if you team with a ZSS and she stuns someone(although you can land a LK out of a stun but still... low percents it'd be useful.)

EDIT: I could be crazy but on characters that it doesn't quite spike does it seem like they're still hitting the stage and thusly getting knocked in a diff path? It could just be the low percent testing, I'm not sure...

zeldspazz · Jul 21, 2009

Did you try it at Pokemon Stadium 2? It seems like it might work on those edges.

Good find, too bad it only works on a couple characters =(

GodAtHand · Jul 21, 2009

These walls...

I have had times when I have Fsmash'd people and when they try to DI out they simply stage spike themselves. I enjoy these walls...

Neat find btw.

sasook · Jul 21, 2009

Haven't seen the vids (posting from phone johns) but here's the big question : can you tech the wall hit?

If not, this is awesome.

KayLo! · Jul 21, 2009

sasook said:
Haven't seen the vids (posting from phone johns) but here's the big question : can you tech the wall hit?

If not, this is awesome.

Any stage spike can be teched, so I'm sure it can be if they see it coming.

Good ****, NL. It's very situational, and like sasook brought up, I'm assuming it can be teched (correct me if I'm wrong).... but any new discoveries are nice to know about.

EDIT: The blue mermaid-y Zelda texture (the one you use while testing Falco in the first vid)...... WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?! I love it.

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

MdrnDayMercutio said:
One potential use I can already think of that makes this some what viable is in teams.

I'm a Diddy main that used/sometimes teams with a Zelda. Banana trips can easily lead to the dash grab needed to get them off the stage. It's how Diddy Kong get's his GR on Wario. Or if you team with a ZSS and she stuns someone(although you can land a LK out of a stun but still... low percents it'd be useful.)

EDIT: I could be crazy but on characters that it doesn't quite spike does it seem like they're still hitting the stage and thusly getting knocked in a diff path? It could just be the low percent testing, I'm not sure...

Yes, this is why i said 'effects'. They dont get spiked but the dthrow sends them in a different angle. Part of the body is hitting the edge. If its a bigger percent of the body touching the edge it causes the spike.

zeldspazz said:
Did you try it at Pokemon Stadium 2? It seems like it might work on those edges.

Good find, too bad it only works on a couple characters =(

Regardless its against characters u will see in tourney a good amount.
I will test PS2 now.

KayLo! said:
Any stage spike can be teched, so I'm sure it can be if they see it coming.

Good ****, NL. It's very situational, and like sasook brought up, I'm assuming it can be teched (correct me if I'm wrong).... but any new discoveries are nice to know about.

EDIT: The blue mermaid-y Zelda texture (the one you use while testing Falco in the first vid)...... WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?! I love it.

I believe they can tech it but if they dont tech jump it they will be in a bad position. Regardless u will have frame advantage.

The texture u saw was actually this

Yes its (I'm) amazing =)

Kataefi · Jul 21, 2009

For those that do tech, is there frame advantages for a dsmash or dtilt spike? that essentially would put them in a similar position to if they don't.

Also... I was testing this on the left side of the ledge on Lucario, and though the trajectory is different to the right side, he still slams into the stage and gets sent horizontally out. Is there frame advantage here to simply walk off the ledge > lightning kick? Because it just sets up so nicely...

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

Kataefi said:
For those that do tech, is there frame advantages for a dsmash or dtilt spike? that essentially would put them in a similar position to if they don't.

Also... I was testing this on the left side of the ledge on Lucario, and though the trajectory is different to the right side, he still slams into the stage and gets sent horizontally out. Is there frame advantage here to simply walk off the ledge > lightning kick? Because it just sets up so nicely...

I shown this in the video mister lol. It should be in the second one.

KayLo! · Jul 21, 2009

@NL: Yes, but where did you get the texture? x.x

As in, I'd like to download it.... unless you made it yourself.... in which case I can offer, uh, 10 bags of sunflower seeds for you to send it to me. =X Non-hamsters like sunflower seeds, amirite?

zeldspazz · Jul 21, 2009

Ok NinjaLink I tested some more stages with D3

This works on the right side of the 3rd transformation at Castle Siege, it's not good of a spike though but it still send them down and to the right

The same happens at PS2

And on the bottom right of Spear Pillar, It makes them like pop up a bit and then grab the ledge. But the stage doesnt matter

Oh, and Im surprised this doesnt work with all the heavyweights =\

KayLo! · Jul 21, 2009

zeldspazz said:
Spear Pillar

Awww yeah, that's my new CP.

I kid. I'm gonna try this next time I play Brawl (which could be a while, lol). Even though Zelda's grab sucks, I've been trying to incorporate more of them into my game.

sasook · Jul 21, 2009

I don't mind Zelda's grab speed as much I do its range, Kaylo. I hate when I'm standing next to the guy and still whiff a grab.

zeldspazz · Jul 21, 2009

sasook said:
I don't mind Zelda's grab speed as much I do its range, Kaylo. I hate when I'm standing next to the guy and still whiff a grab.

I seem to only grab the person when its a dash grab, I never do a regular grab with Zelda cus I always get the spacing wrong.

KayLo! · Jul 21, 2009

sasook said:
I don't mind Zelda's grab speed as much I do its range, Kaylo. I hate when I'm standing next to the guy and still whiff a grab.

Zelda has pretty good grab range for a non-tether, especially if you get into the habit of pivot grabbing. Imo, the speed is definitely the problem, although it's nice when people underestimate how slow it is and get caught out of a spotdodge.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Jul 21, 2009

This is cool Zelda dthrow was already my favorite.

Kataefi · Jul 21, 2009

NinjaLink said:
I shown this in the video mister lol. It should be in the second one.

Don't make me get Oprah on you ninjalink

Too late

I just wanted an excuse to post that lol

Anyways... have you currently tested every stage?

@kay: about Zelda's dash grab... have you ever foxtrotted into the grab?... it just swoops in nicely with some pretty decent range. I prefer this to simply dash grabbing now.

KayLo! · Jul 21, 2009

Maaan, don't post those old pictures! Oprah's got her sexy new hair now:

Kataefi said:
@kay: about Zelda's dash grab... have you ever foxtrotted into the grab?... it just swoops in nicely with some pretty decent range. I prefer this to simply dash grabbing now.

Yeah, I pretty much alway grab by either: shieldgrabbing, pivot grabbing, or dash-canceling into a dash grab. I don't think many characters benefit by straight running into a grab.

Or straight running into anything, tbh. (hmm)

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

LOL OPRAH. Kaylo, u want more gifts from me

. I'll find u the link for the texture if not i'll send it through aim.

Dash grab is faster by 1 frame.

I forgot about castle siege and the weird ledges on the last part.

If anything guys try different stages and/or characters. As i shown in teh video D3 on yoshis causes an instant grounding as well as on rainbow cruise.

zeldspazz · Jul 21, 2009

Did you get my post on the last page? I did Castle Siege, Spear Pillar, and PS2, and the worked expect it did something weird on Spear Pillar.

Edit: Oprah looks a little like Queen Latifah now XD

Kataefi · Jul 21, 2009

Ninjalink when you Dthrow any character at the edge, whether they get spiked or not are they still hitting that edge?

I tried a bunch of DI movements with different characters and I could consistently get Dthrow > Lightning Kick on pictochat and yoshis, whether the opponent DId away, up or down. Am I testing this right? Could you look into it for me =D

~~edit:: ignore this edit what i said isn't consistent~~

edit2: okay yeah it is actually consistent - basically, you get a guaranteed followup so far on Lucario on the left ledge of yoshi's because Lucario can't DI away from her - if he does he actually gets placed in front of her for an LK setup, so he needs to use other DI methods that don't quite escape Zelda's reach. She can get in a Usmash, Utilt and DA iirc.

edit3: and I think Dthrow > Lightning kick applies to every character on pictochat ledges both left and right.

NinjaLink · Jul 21, 2009

As i stated before...........NOT every character's body touches the edge.

Elder Sister · Jul 22, 2009

Kataefi said:
edit3: and I think Dthrow > Lightning kick applies to every character on pictochat ledges both left and right.

does that mean every pictochat-edge-dthrow can always lead to a lightening kick on every character?
would be awesomeO.O

Kataefi · Jul 22, 2009

Elder Sister said:
does that mean every pictochat-edge-dthrow can always lead to a lightening kick on every character?
would be awesomeO.O

Actually it doesn't work on every character - it's something to do with body size and weight as ninjalink had stated before - something to do with floatiness in regards to pictochat as well. It does work on some characters. I still hate the stage >.<

Lythium · Jul 22, 2009

zeldspazz said:
Did you get my post on the last page? I did Castle Siege, Spear Pillar, and PS2, and the worked expect it did something weird on Spear Pillar.

Edit: Oprah looks a little like Queen Latifah now XD

Why would you test on Spear Pillar? It's not even a counterpick.

Elder Sister said:
does that mean every pictochat-edge-dthrow can always lead to a lightening kick on every character?
would be awesomeO.O

Zelda would be high tier. But only on Pictochat. :laugh:

ZitchX · Jul 22, 2009

Uhh... I just did this online...

Haha take that CG'ers... Falco and Dedede =D

Zelda's Dthrow Spike

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