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Matchup Thread Export: Pikachu
- Thread starter Gates
- Start date
Jupz
Smash Master
Pika will die at slightly over 100 with good DI, not 85. I'll post more on this matchup tomorrow.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I did this against Anther, and it actually ****ing works. STAY YOUR FATASS IN THE AIR. Also, stay away from grabs.
Lawl Anther on wifi is still ****. I did pretty good against him considering the matchup advantage. He got an accidental 3 stock on me, and then a three stock when I played stupid and he ***** me up the butt no lube.
Limeee
Smash Champion
bump, keep posting i am having trouble playing against my brother's pikachu
here are some things that are giving me trouble
1. FF'ed F-airs into D smash (am i just ******** or does it actually work)
2. aproaches with neutral B
3. F-smash
4.QAC
Any solutions to these?
here are some things that are giving me trouble
1. FF'ed F-airs into D smash (am i just ******** or does it actually work)
2. aproaches with neutral B
3. F-smash
4.QAC
Any solutions to these?
Jupz
Smash Master
If you think hes going to fsmash, you can walk back a bit and outspace him with Ftilt as he usually uses it as a spacing move. Powershield the neutral B's.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
this matchup is retardedly difficult ill write a write up when it's not 5 am
Tekk
Smash Lord
DI'ing out of the Dsmash is easy.
predict where he's gonna QAC and punish him (it's quite hard I know, but possible)
Limeee
Smash Champion
is it up or to the side, ive heard either from different people
Tekk
Smash Lord
to DI out of the Dsmash ?
Personally I DI up only, but I believe you can DI up with the C stick and side DI with the normal stick too.
Personally I DI up only, but I believe you can DI up with the C stick and side DI with the normal stick too.
Jupz
Smash Master
I DI up and away diagonally 
T3h Albino
Smash Master
well i did make a really nice write up of this matchup but unfortunately my mom told me she was going to use the computer. I SPECIFIALLY TOLD HER 10 TIMES NOT TO CLOSE THE PAGE. She keeps yelling I WONT I WONT I WONT CLOSE IT. So i go and practice some ic infinites while she uses Facebook,Gmail,BET.com and i come back and see my urahara background staring me in the face =/. Im so angry right now. I may re write it tommorow but i just wanted to let you guys know what happend.
Tekk
Smash Lord
Lol get mother'd :x
Limeee
Smash Champion
wow that sucks, i was looking forward to it
T3h Albino
Smash Master
Alright alright im retyping this. It got deleted the first time, but this time my moms not home so lets hope for the best.
K lets start with stating the obvious. Pikachu can edgeguard you very well with a mixup of tjolts, nairs, and thunder. This makes getting back onto the stage a difficult task. Sometimes the pika may even quick attack cancel your jumps away. Try to just bair all of these and just make it back taking the least amount of damage you can. Next is the fact that if grabbed at 0 pika can cg you to around 70 and finish with a nair. If the nair happens to knock you off the stage then just try and get back the best you can. Really try and avoid getting grabbed at 0 as it is very hard to catchup is you do. Next is the approaching. Pikachu outcamps you *kinda sorta* even though you can cancel his tjolts with ftilt and bair you still will find yourself having to approach him. The best way would probably be Run > shield > grab or Bair > Bair > Bair until you're in. once you do get a grab you have 2 choices. you can go for the tech chase or you can just bthrow for guranteed 16. Pikachu is very easy to tech chase due to his crappy techroll so take advantage of it. Also as gates has previously stated if you expect the pikachu to tech in place start charging that fsmash *it will kill around 40 with good di*. Edge guarding pikachu isn't as easy as i use to think it was. pikachu can mix up his recovery very well with jumps, skull bash, and quick attack. If he uses skull bash just bair him. If he uses quick attack and you're on the ledge just expect him to go on the stage jump up and bthrow. Once he's around 95 or so dthrow to dsmash or just wait for uptilt oppurtunities. Also fair is a pretty good killer too. Overall this is one of d3's harder matchups because of how well pikachu hits d3. His recovery is hard to gimp and he outcamps you. IMO it's 65:35 but i may be wrong.
k im done ;B
K lets start with stating the obvious. Pikachu can edgeguard you very well with a mixup of tjolts, nairs, and thunder. This makes getting back onto the stage a difficult task. Sometimes the pika may even quick attack cancel your jumps away. Try to just bair all of these and just make it back taking the least amount of damage you can. Next is the fact that if grabbed at 0 pika can cg you to around 70 and finish with a nair. If the nair happens to knock you off the stage then just try and get back the best you can. Really try and avoid getting grabbed at 0 as it is very hard to catchup is you do. Next is the approaching. Pikachu outcamps you *kinda sorta* even though you can cancel his tjolts with ftilt and bair you still will find yourself having to approach him. The best way would probably be Run > shield > grab or Bair > Bair > Bair until you're in. once you do get a grab you have 2 choices. you can go for the tech chase or you can just bthrow for guranteed 16. Pikachu is very easy to tech chase due to his crappy techroll so take advantage of it. Also as gates has previously stated if you expect the pikachu to tech in place start charging that fsmash *it will kill around 40 with good di*. Edge guarding pikachu isn't as easy as i use to think it was. pikachu can mix up his recovery very well with jumps, skull bash, and quick attack. If he uses skull bash just bair him. If he uses quick attack and you're on the ledge just expect him to go on the stage jump up and bthrow. Once he's around 95 or so dthrow to dsmash or just wait for uptilt oppurtunities. Also fair is a pretty good killer too. Overall this is one of d3's harder matchups because of how well pikachu hits d3. His recovery is hard to gimp and he outcamps you. IMO it's 65:35 but i may be wrong.
k im done ;B
Jupz
Smash Master
Nice summary Albino. I'll attempt to write one up myself tonight.
Limeee
Smash Champion
looking forward to it jupz, and good job albino
what stages to CP, stage strike or ban against pikachu?c
what stages to CP, stage strike or ban against pikachu?c
T3h Albino
Smash Master
good neutrals include Bf,and SV
good cps include hmm...idk halberd?
dont go to brinstar....i actually kind of like norfair in this matchup
ban fd
just don't even go there <_<
good cps include hmm...idk halberd?
dont go to brinstar....i actually kind of like norfair in this matchup
ban fd
just don't even go there <_<
Jupz
Smash Master
I usually counterpick Delfino against Pikachu.
CO18
Smash Hero
Yeah, I do too. I love the thrill.
Tekk
Smash Lord
Yeah Halberd seems like a good cp agains Pikachu...But I don't know, why is Delfino a good one ?
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
I was expecting reasons why Jupz. Any advantages or anything why you counterpick Delfino for Pikachu?
CO18
Smash Hero
Because he enjoys the thrill of trying to avoid being walked off. Just like me.
Jupz
Smash Master
Hehe, I know what you guys are thinking and it may seem that its not good at first or on paper but in game its not that bad. There are only a few stages with walk offs and you can avoid these if you are smarter, and he can't infinite you against a wall as we can with other characters. Its harder for him to outcamp you, as it is for most characters on Delfino. Watch out though because his Tjolts traverse the stage, and his QAC is great for maneuvering around the stage here. Try to bait a grab and punish with a Utilt. Also, most stages have a short ceiling so you can kill him fairly early. If you watch for thunder kills off the side of the stage (the hitbox where it hits pikachu), its not that bad a stage. You can camp on some of the stages with walkoffs in the air with Dair, he can't touch you unless he thunders, which you can air dodge or jump out the way and attempt to punish with a Fast falled Bair or reversed inhale.
Maybe its not statistically that good, but I love this stage and counterpick it on heaps of characters.
In General:
Pikachu can kill over the top with Usmash and thunder and off the sides with thunder and fsmash. This is his chaingrab on us, taken from the pika boards:
Good stages:
Halberd is probably the best, why do I never think of this in tourneys Low ceiling, and the platform can help with camping. Its also a relatively short stage. Be careful not to get grabbed at the start cause he can walk off. During the part when it lands he can also camp fairly well.
I still like Delfino, though maybe thats just personal preference. Reasons at the top of the post.
Any others?
Bad Stages:
FD: Too much room for him to camp, hard to approach and he can get far away with just one QAC.
Pictochat: I usually ban this one, its even longer then FD, ceiling is really high and he can kill really early off the sides with thunder and Fsmash. He can abuse the stage hazards better because of QAC and maneuver better.
Anything else?
Verdict: 40:60 or 35:65 IMO.
Maybe its not statistically that good, but I love this stage and counterpick it on heaps of characters.
In General:
Pikachu can kill over the top with Usmash and thunder and off the sides with thunder and fsmash. This is his chaingrab on us, taken from the pika boards:
So it goes to 77 and can be finished off with a Usmash, ouch. Try to bait the grabs at low percents and punish with a grab of your own or a Dtilt or Dmash if they are at high percents (because Pika rolls when he does a dash grab like Dedede if you Utilt he might end up behind you, so Dmash makes sure you get him). He can gimp our UPB fairly easily with thunder which kills really early. Watch out for QAC's to reset spacing and put distance between you and him so he can camp. Powershield the Tjolts, and space with Ftilt on the ground. Watch out at a medium range because he usually uses his Fsmash for spacing and I think its unpunishable unless you power shield it. If you're landing and expect a grab, fast fall an inhale. He is pretty much ungimpable. Your aerials beat all of his in range, and beware of Nair for killing. Also fast falled Fair can combo into a lot of things including Usmash at high percents.
Good stages:
Halberd is probably the best, why do I never think of this in tourneys
Low ceiling, and the platform can help with camping. Its also a relatively short stage. Be careful not to get grabbed at the start cause he can walk off. During the part when it lands he can also camp fairly well.I still like Delfino, though maybe thats just personal preference. Reasons at the top of the post.
Any others?
Bad Stages:
FD: Too much room for him to camp, hard to approach and he can get far away with just one QAC.
Pictochat: I usually ban this one, its even longer then FD, ceiling is really high and he can kill really early off the sides with thunder and Fsmash. He can abuse the stage hazards better because of QAC and maneuver better.
Anything else?
Verdict: 40:60 or 35:65 IMO.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Understood. Allow me to add.
I like Halberd for this matchup too...it really cuts off the camping and up tilt kills the mouse at a meer 70%. Another usual for us is Rainbow Cruise. That's for counterpicking. The best neutral for this is Smashville. The stage is not as long and we can use the platform. The ceiling is lower than Final Destination's so you all know what that means.
Against Pikachu, I just spam forward tilt both at a distance and at a short distance to where we hit him because it's the bane to half of Pikachu's game. We can even space it and it'll still cancel the thunder jolts and it'll stop Pikachu's approach to chaingrab almost every time, then mindgame into a grab or dash attack. I'll abuse down tilt for this same reason too. And for the beginners, Pikachu has a shorter tech roll after we down throw, so if we are good at tech chasing, we can get many more down throws off of him especially on Smashville, and finish it with a down smash, or the Buuman Trap.
About Pikachu's down B. It's reasonably easy to avoid especially when we see the animation signs Pikachu emits, or just simply predicting the down B correctly. As far as I remember, I've never been successfully hit with it because it's just that predictable, even when he's edgeguarding with it. Airdodge airdodge airdodge, but you must watch for the down B first.
When he does his Agility shenanigans, just shield for God's sake. That's all you need to do. They'll do the cancel boloney with a neutral air and we'll just shield, they can't grab so they can't do anything else. He'll never use his sideB unless for recovery, and we all know we can back air it. But....a well spaced forward air will definately kill Pikachu off the sideB, assuming that back air is near stale.
Also... doing much air camping with or without down airs works just as great to Pikachu as much as it does to Falco. And air camping to inhales works the same also. That's how I generally deal with both of them when I'm at low percents to avoid their chaingrabs.
For me, it's 60:40 Pikachu, but I've made it look like 55:45 Pikachu because he can only chaingrab me near once in a single match.
I like Halberd for this matchup too...it really cuts off the camping and up tilt kills the mouse at a meer 70%. Another usual for us is Rainbow Cruise. That's for counterpicking. The best neutral for this is Smashville. The stage is not as long and we can use the platform. The ceiling is lower than Final Destination's so you all know what that means.
Against Pikachu, I just spam forward tilt both at a distance and at a short distance to where we hit him because it's the bane to half of Pikachu's game. We can even space it and it'll still cancel the thunder jolts and it'll stop Pikachu's approach to chaingrab almost every time, then mindgame into a grab or dash attack. I'll abuse down tilt for this same reason too. And for the beginners, Pikachu has a shorter tech roll after we down throw, so if we are good at tech chasing, we can get many more down throws off of him especially on Smashville, and finish it with a down smash, or the Buuman Trap.
About Pikachu's down B. It's reasonably easy to avoid especially when we see the animation signs Pikachu emits, or just simply predicting the down B correctly. As far as I remember, I've never been successfully hit with it because it's just that predictable, even when he's edgeguarding with it. Airdodge airdodge airdodge, but you must watch for the down B first.
When he does his Agility shenanigans, just shield for God's sake. That's all you need to do. They'll do the cancel boloney with a neutral air and we'll just shield, they can't grab so they can't do anything else. He'll never use his sideB unless for recovery, and we all know we can back air it. But....a well spaced forward air will definately kill Pikachu off the sideB, assuming that back air is near stale.
Also... doing much air camping with or without down airs works just as great to Pikachu as much as it does to Falco. And air camping to inhales works the same also. That's how I generally deal with both of them when I'm at low percents to avoid their chaingrabs.
For me, it's 60:40 Pikachu, but I've made it look like 55:45 Pikachu because he can only chaingrab me near once in a single match.
Jupz
Smash Master
Nice summary Beef Although are you sure about rainbow cruise? Pikachu can recover more laglessly and maneuvre better then us here.
I think were nearly done for this matchup :o
Although are you sure about rainbow cruise? Pikachu can recover more laglessly and maneuvre better then us here.I think were nearly done for this matchup :o
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
. Yeah Rainbow Cruise because while off the ship, it slows down Pikachu's air game, or just the aerials because there's so much space there. The thunder jolts and chaingrab are not a problem there as much anymore and since there's so much space, his down B will be hard to hit us, but we should be dodging it every time anyways. To tell the truth, I think WE maneuver there better because our aerials will just plain work better there lol.
Jupz
Smash Master
Yeah true, and I forgot it would screw with his chaingrab lol
I could write a massive summary to stick in the front post of the main matchup thread if you wanted Gates? cause otherwise it would be a waste of all the info here if was not to be recorded in the main thread.
I could write a massive summary to stick in the front post of the main matchup thread if you wanted Gates? cause otherwise it would be a waste of all the info here if was not to be recorded in the main thread.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I can't give Pikachu summaries. I've played Anther (online) so I can't really summarize anything just yet.
Leekduck
Smash Cadet
I beat pikachu computer today as dedede, I won but it wasent easy, Dededes also my main so it could be unfair
I would be pikachu and fight dedede to find out who'il win
I would be pikachu and fight dedede to find out who'il win
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Pikachu is a matchup disadvantage for DeDeDe. But CPU practice only gets you so far. Try going to AiB and playing a few matches to learn the matchup.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
He'll be fine... unless he grows bored of them.
Leekduck
Smash Cadet
What is AiB?
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
All is Brawl is another smash site that specializes in online wifi tournaments.
It also has very ****ty forums.
Leekduck
Smash Cadet
Oh cool, thanks
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
CRASHiC, **** the forums.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
something i noticed that works reall well IF you have a lead is to platform camp, with full hops and dair his approaches. or inhale.
never go on the long flatland if avoidable
and PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR HABITS, you need as many simple punishments as you can get. if u see they like to attack with two ariels in ur shield hoping for a poke, catch on quick and hold shield the whole time, then punish.
dont save utilt, in hard matchups, i've found it useful to use anymove u can use whenever u can use them. controling approaches/consistant damage is more important than killing pika at exactly 100.
thats all im gona say for now, i'll try to record some matches with esam, and upload 'em sometime this weekend.
never go on the long flatland if avoidable
and PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR HABITS, you need as many simple punishments as you can get. if u see they like to attack with two ariels in ur shield hoping for a poke, catch on quick and hold shield the whole time, then punish.
dont save utilt, in hard matchups, i've found it useful to use anymove u can use whenever u can use them. controling approaches/consistant damage is more important than killing pika at exactly 100.
thats all im gona say for now, i'll try to record some matches with esam, and upload 'em sometime this weekend.
Jupz
Smash Master
Whats the best way to punish attacks when you're on the platform and they are attacking you from below with aerials/uptilts and smashes?
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
u can either time a dsmash, an utilt(yes it hits from below) or sh Dair. OR fastfall bair, but i dont recomend this as it puts u in risk of getting grabbed.
inhale is also good
my motto, when in doubt, suck ur opponents off
inhale is also good
my motto, when in doubt, suck ur opponents off
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
IMO, inhale doesnt really work all that well for this particular matchup.
Actually, I learned this by playing Anther on wifi.
Pika can duck under our utilt
This is why I suggest using utilt for damaging instead of killing. With dsmash, it has better range and can cover spotdodges and rolls.
Actually, I learned this by playing Anther on wifi.
Pika can duck under our utilt
This is why I suggest using utilt for damaging instead of killing. With dsmash, it has better range and can cover spotdodges and rolls.