Matchup Thread Export: Kirby

Gates · Jul 26, 2009

KIRBY

DIFFICULTY: EVEN - 45:55
CHAINGRAB: NO

InfernoOmni said:
This match-up is rough.

1.) Don't underestimate Kirby's swallow. If Kirby swallows DDD, he can auto-release him to footstool and if necessary to d-air spike. Given the scenario that Kirby is at 100% and DDD is at like 20% and you get swallowed, sometimes you just have to take the blow and don't struggle taking you both down. If you do struggle and the Kirby knows what he's doing, you're still dead and he's alive. Seriously; just don't underestimate it. I can't repeat that enough.

2.) Don't keep your shield up too long. If you're approaching with your shield and you don't have any options, roll away. Kirby's b-air is very good at piercing mid-size/low-size shields. A patient Kirby just has to wait a few seconds while a DDD is shielding for him to be able to attack through it.

3.) If you're hawking with DDD in the air while Kirby is on the ground, be careful. Fast falling into b-airs in attempt to catch Kirby off guard will usually result in Kirby shieldgrabbing you. Kirby's grab is deceptively long, just like DDD's, and also very quick. Against defensive shieldgrabbing Kirby's in this situation, the perfect response is to fast fall with swallow. If they're in their shield, you win every time. What this will do is force the Kirby attempt to land behind your swallow (thinking you'll try it again), leave them open for b-airs, or hopefully they'll let you have a safe landing by giving you distance.

4.) Kirby vs DDD is a WOP battle. If one of them attacks, the other person usually has the advantage. The two most common approaches from both sides will be dash-in to shield and spaced aerials (normally b-airs). If DDD gets grabbed, you'll most likely be hit with a f-throw or a d-throw. This is a dangerous area for DDD to be. Remember to always DI away because not DI'ing at all will earn you a b-air or up-air to the face. The key is to remember that you're DDD and you won't die so easily.

5.) Speaking of dying easily, Kirby can kill DDD early if the DDD isn't prepared. Break out of the habit of air dodging toward the ground thinking you'll be fine, because you won't. A good Kirby will have a well-timed f-smash waiting for you. ALWAYS BE READY TO DI. Another common way for DDD to die early is not DI'ing a clean hit from Kirby's b-air. The b-air is extremely strong, fast, and has great knockback. If you play your cards right and always avoid kill moves (b-air, any smash), you should be around 150% before you die.

6.) Be careful when you throw your Waddle Dees. Make sure there is plenty of room between you and Kirby. If Kirby shields it at mid range, he can run out of shield and grab you/reverse b-air you each time.

o-Serin-o · Jul 26, 2009

Basically a bair battle. Rofl

Monkey Wrench · Jul 26, 2009

Kirby doesn't seem too hard. Just play a cautious defensive game with bair, ftilt, and grab. You really shouldn't get grabbed a whole lot with proper spacing, but if you do get grabbed, DI his combos as best you can. Kirby's fsmash is annoying but unsafe on block, if you bait it and punish he'll be more wary of using it. To edgeguard him, throw bairs in his general direction(lol, this could really apply to any matchup) . To recover, stay low if he goes offstage(watch for any spike attempts), go high if he waits onstage. Above all, be patient. When in doubt, run away and try something else.

45-55?

Leekduck · Aug 13, 2009

Hes small and so hes hard to hit if he gets too close, The fact he can fly is also slightly annoying but dedede can knock him out of the air easily, Kirby isent very fast considoring his size and throwing waddle-dees at him usualy trips him up or something!!

overall there easily matched

o-Serin-o · Aug 29, 2009

I'd like to have a discussion on the current MU ratio of this.

I'll notify the Kirby boards and have them comment.

Countcocofang · Sep 26, 2009

What stages do you recommend for this matchup? Stages don't seem to effect this match as much as most. (/bump)

*JuriHan* · Sep 26, 2009

this is really a match of spacing. Waddle dees can be a major pain in the ***. I play Kirby and I actually lose to DDDs

when they get lucky with Gordos

It's a fairly even matchup... iirc Kirby boards said it's 60:40 in Kirby's favor and I really disagree with that. It's like 55:45 in Kirby's favor at worst.

Gates · Sep 26, 2009

Countcocofang said:
What stages do you recommend for this matchup? Stages don't seem to effect this match as much as most. (/bump)

Any stage with a low ceiling is good (Halberd, Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, etc.). Stages with high ceilings are bad (Japes, Pictochat, PS2, etc.). I'm not sure if you'd want to avoid platforms or not in this matchup since they can often save you from his combos.

I'd probably ban Pictochat since it's legal in more places than Japes and Kirbys like to use the glitch on the ledge. I'd counterpick Rainbow Cruise, but if they ban that I'd go Halberd.

Lord Viper · Sep 26, 2009

☆ Grab strings on King Dedede is fun. =P ☆

☆ Since King Dedede is consider a "big target" meaning Kirby would have a fun time with grabs, but grabbing the King takes work, not to mention King Dedede can KO Kirby fast and most of his attacks as great range. Let's not forget Kirby has a number of strings after his attacks, (mostly his air moves), and those strings hurt. ☆

☆ As for stage picks, Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise is the Kings best pick. Try to avoid going to Jungle Japes and Battlefield mostly when your fighting Kirby. My thought's on this match up is 45/55 Kirby, I would say that if I care for match up's anymore, (looks at Kirby's Olimar and Sheik match up that makes me mad to look at). ☆

CRASHiC · Sep 26, 2009

☆ Grab strings on King Dedede is fun. =P ☆

DI is fun.

Lord Viper · Sep 26, 2009

☆ DI away from getting grabbed?!? =P ☆

☆ I'm guessing people are too use to the "Gonzo Combo" I suppose. When I say numbers of strings, meaning Kirby can perform more than one move when using his follow up's on his attacks, especially grabs. I mean don't more Kirby mains short hop > F-Air after F-Throw anymore? )= ☆

CRASHiC · Sep 26, 2009

I thought we can DI all the grab combos? Guess I played a bad Kirby then.

Lord Viper · Sep 26, 2009

☆ Kirby has to short hop or mid air jump after the King DI's or his attacks will miss, or the strings will fail. Not many Kirby mains do that method because it's a chance that Kirby will get punished if he misses, but it's always good to mix it up. Also I can't judge the skill of the Kirby main you fought, that person could be one of the best Kirby's without me knowing. ^_^; ☆

CRASHiC · Sep 26, 2009

It was DC, aka, the man who thought Brawl was the only good fighting game until he played Blazblue, and then decided that Smash as a whole sucked.

momochuu · Sep 26, 2009

60-40 in Dedede's advantage. It is almost impossible for Kirby to KO Dedede unless it's FSmash. At some percents up to about 150%, Dedede can STILL live from that unless it's close to the blast zone. All Dedede has to do is UpTilt or tech chase with Dash Attack/DSmash out of a DThrow. He can rack up damage just as easy too. "Gonzo Combo" doesn't work.

Lord Viper · Sep 26, 2009

CRASHiC said:
It was DC, aka, the man who thought Brawl was the only good fighting game until he played Blazblue, and then decided that Smash as a whole sucked.

☆ DC is a great Kirby main, better than most around the Kirby boards.... mind as well say was since he made that thread that he quit Brawl and all. =/ ☆

TlocCPU · Sep 30, 2009

I actually think this one is perfect 50/50. Both characters have the exact same advantages and disadvantages on each other. You can read the following list and pretend you're either character.

-You can combo out of your grabs
-Your Bair has great range and will do well for edge guarding him
-They have a lot of trouble landing the KO move on you so you can survive forever
-You can swallow out of a lot of their attacks
-You can shield their up B for a free grab

Jupz · Sep 30, 2009

Although we are a lot heavier then him and at high percents do more damage out of a grab then him, which is the opposite of low percents.

Lord Viper · Oct 1, 2009

TlocCPU said:
I actually think this one is perfect 50/50. Both characters have the exact same advantages and disadvantages on each other. You can read the following list and pretend you're either character.

-You can combo out of your grabs
-Your Bair has great range and will do well for edge guarding him
-They have a lot of trouble landing the KO move on you so you can survive forever
-You can swallow out of a lot of their attacks
-You can shield their up B for a free grab

☆ Though 50/50 is something I can agree on, (stupid U-Tilt and great air range), but I don't agree on "having trouble landing the KO moves", because U-Smash (takes good amount of practice to land the sweet spot most of the time), D-Smash, Side-B Air, F-Smash (used too common), B-Air, (used too common), and D-Air can able to kill around 120% mostly. Also a Kirby main shouldn't use his Up-B recklessly, you should always use Kirby's Up-B, a Kirby main should nearly always use Up-B near the edge, or from a distance to not be able to get trapped. ☆

AtotheZ · Oct 1, 2009

Viper won 2-0 against me D:

But I would say this match is in an even favor, kirby can combo dedede pretty well, but kirby is so short he isn't exactly easy to hit...

A1lion835 · Oct 19, 2009

The Kirby boards are discussing King Dedede! Any help with the discussion would be greatly appreciated

.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395

Edit: Oh crap, whoops. Wrong thread. Sorry.

TlocCPU · Oct 19, 2009

With the new swallow to uptilt thing that seibrik found i'm calling this one 55:45 now that we can get the kill REALLY early

Lord Viper · Oct 19, 2009

☆ Good luck pulling that off, inhaling isn't as easy as it use to be. =/ ☆

o-Serin-o · Oct 19, 2009

Bair > reserve inhale when they shield.

Fastfall an Inhale if we are expecting a fsmash at the edge.

TlocCPU · Oct 19, 2009

Huh? Kirby is like one of the easiest characters to get the swallow on lol

Gates · Oct 20, 2009

★Viper said:
☆ Good luck pulling that off, inhaling isn't as easy as it use to be. =/ ☆

You've never played me Viper. :evil:

Lord Viper · Oct 20, 2009

TlocCPU said:
Huh? Kirby is like one of the easiest characters to get the swallow on lol

☆ Really? I thought big characters are one of the easiest to swallow. =P ☆

Gates said:
You've never played me Viper.

☆ We did play.... on doubles, but you didn't have King Dedede, but that was all the way in June... ☆

♪ Oh-oh-oh-oh ♪

TlocCPU · Oct 20, 2009

★Viper said:
☆ Really? I thought big characters are one of the easiest to swallow. =P ☆

☆ We did play.... on doubles, but you didn't have King Dedede, but that was all the way in June... ☆

♪ Oh-oh-oh-oh ♪

That is completely wrong... Like COMPLETELY wrong.
It depends on their moveset. Kirby has very limited moves that beat the swallow while most of marth's moves beat it immediately. But by your logic marth should be easier to swallow.

bmaster77 · Oct 20, 2009

TlocCPU said:
With the new swallow to uptilt thing that seibrik found i'm calling this one 55:45 now that we can get the kill REALLY early

what new swallow to uptilt thing? link/video please

Coney · Oct 20, 2009

from what i can tell, this matchup has a hell of a lot of jousting bairs. just try to space yourself right.

don't bother trying to shieldgrab bairs, if spaced properly he will punish you for it.

never, ever get to the point where you have to use your up-b--you'll probably lose a stock to aerial hammer for it.

a ton of kirby's setups rely on grabs. if he grabs you, don't ever try to retaliate, EVER. jump the **** away, every time, SDI if you need to.

kirby's fsmash is like "mindgame: the move." don't ever try to challenge it. don't ever predict wrongly. don't you dare get caught with bad DI. it will kill early.

dunno if i'd call this one 50-50 but i'm not sure what else to call it, so whatever you guys want @_@

Lord Viper · Oct 20, 2009

TlocCPU said:
That is completely wrong... Like COMPLETELY wrong.
It depends on their moveset. Kirby has very limited moves that beat the swallow while most of marth's moves beat it immediately. But by your logic marth should be easier to swallow.

☆ Why didn't you say so? I thought you meant that Kirby alone was very easy to get inhaled, you need to explain further next time. Yea, anyways, no character would just walk up and get swallowed, you have to be very statistic with it, the start up of King Dedede or Kirby inhaling is very slow, to the point you'll be lucky to inhale him. Also to beat inhale, you'll have to be above the character that's inhaling and attack, Kirby's D-Air above will do nicely, also Final Cutter has a good enough distance to stop it as well. ☆

TlocCPU · Oct 20, 2009

★Viper said:
☆ Why didn't you say so? I thought you meant that Kirby alone was very easy to get inhaled, you need to explain further next time. Yea, anyways, no character would just walk up and get swallowed, you have to be very statistic with it, the start up of King Dedede or Kirby inhaling is very slow, to the point you'll be lucky to inhale him. Also to beat inhale, you'll have to be above the character that's inhaling and attack, Kirby's D-Air above will do nicely, also Final Cutter has a good enough distance to stop it as well. ☆

And a well spaced bair on reaction for either character

Gates · Oct 20, 2009

★Viper said:
☆ We did play.... on doubles, but you didn't have King Dedede, but that was all the way in June... ☆

♪ Oh-oh-oh-oh ♪

Exactly. My MK in doubles totally doesn't count lol.

Gates · Feb 6, 2010

Serin is taking over this thread so I'm bumping it.

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