Project Mewtwo

Wavedash Master · Jul 29, 2009

Wait a minute, what happend to the original post?!!?

Up to this point, it seems people will not need my help to recreate Mewtwo by organizing his moveset (one person on here already mentioned that he/she had Mewtwo planned down to the frame). I will keep this thread open to keep any Mewtwo discussion in here. Also, this will probably be my last say on this forums for a while. Hope for the best of luck.

Blue the Blur · Jul 29, 2009

I wish i know how to do all this stuff i would help you if i did!!

Shadic · Jul 29, 2009

Lucario is definitely the closest the Mewtwo when it comes to physical structure. He's far from being perfect, but I don't think you're going to get anything closer.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

i was thinking about previous discussion for mew2's special moveset. his teleport, disable and shadowball all seem to be possible. however there seems to be little hope of retreiving his confusion, due to its strange nature. Isnt this an oppotune moment to give him something another move that suits him? Confusion was never really useful would proberbly be even worse with a brawl+ remake (if it is even possible)

looking at his basic moveset: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/150.shtml

i think his 3 best options (imo ofc) are swift, psychic and mist

swift- rapid fires 3 stars at different angle infront of mew2 (to create a wall of stars) that each do 5% damage or so each , but have no knockback and a decent endlag (to reduce spamming). i was thinking using the star animation from the star rod item if its possible

psychic- kinda feel it could be like robs laser but broader and with no knockback (he already has shadowball for that. but im not very sure about this one, contributions would be appreciated

mist- the togepi effect where the entire screen goes dark. is it possible to give mew2 this effect when holding side B, with a maximum time of say 3 seconds and he cannot move when doing so (so that it will confuse people returning to the stage).

any other ideas from people?

...:::VILE:::... · Jul 29, 2009

There will be floods of mewtwos lol.

shinyspoon42 · Jul 29, 2009

jalued said:
i was thinking about previous discussion for mew2's special moveset. his teleport, disable and shadowball all seem to be possible. however there seems to be little hope of retreiving his confusion, due to its strange nature. Isnt this an oppotune moment to give him something another move that suits him? Confusion was never really useful would proberbly be even worse with a brawl+ remake (if it is even possible)

looking at his basic moveset: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/150.shtml

i think his 3 best options (imo ofc) are swift, psychic and mist

swift- rapid fires 3 stars at different angle infront of mew2 (to create a wall of stars) that each do 5% damage or so each , but have no knockback and a decent endlag (to reduce spamming). i was thinking using the star animation from the star rod item if its possible

psychic- kinda feel it could be like robs laser but broader and with no knockback (he already has shadowball for that. but im not very sure about this one, contributions would be appreciated

mist- the togepi effect where the entire screen goes dark. is it possible to give mew2 this effect when holding side B, with a maximum time of say 3 seconds and he cannot move when doing so (so that it will confuse people returning to the stage).

any other ideas from people?

If you were going for a new side b, I'd reccomend psychic, but instead of damage w/ no knockback, knockback w/ no damage. Similar to the R.O.B laser, but much larger and has a high push effect, but long end lag.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
If you were going for a new side b, I'd reccomend psychic, but instead of damage w/ no knockback, knockback w/ no damage. Similar to the R.O.B laser, but much larger and has a high push effect, but long end lag.

hm my only prob with that is that it might look wierd, oh and be OP for edgeguarding lol

shinyspoon42 · Jul 29, 2009

jalued said:
hm my only prob with that is that it might look wierd, oh and be OP for edgeguarding lol

Make it similar to FLUDD or squirt gun in terms of pushing. In terms of appearance, it'd be like when ROB fires a laser before he's charged (a beam that peters out right in front of him) but much larger, and the move has push abilities.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
Make it similar to FLUDD or squirt gun in terms of pushing. In terms of appearance, it'd be like when ROB fires a laser before he's charged (a beam that peters out right in front of him) but much larger, and the move has push abilities.[/QUOTE

the only prob i see with that is that 2 characters have already got that ability. i like the swift idea, seems the most unique to me

Shadowmaster9000 · Jul 29, 2009

jalued said:
i was thinking about previous discussion for mew2's special moveset. his teleport, disable and shadowball all seem to be possible. however there seems to be little hope of retreiving his confusion, due to its strange nature. Isnt this an oppotune moment to give him something another move that suits him? Confusion was never really useful would proberbly be even worse with a brawl+ remake (if it is even possible)

looking at his basic moveset: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/150.shtml

i think his 3 best options (imo ofc) are swift, psychic and mist

swift- rapid fires 3 stars at different angle infront of mew2 (to create a wall of stars) that each do 5% damage or so each , but have no knockback and a decent endlag (to reduce spamming). i was thinking using the star animation from the star rod item if its possible

psychic- kinda feel it could be like robs laser but broader and with no knockback (he already has shadowball for that. but im not very sure about this one, contributions would be appreciated

mist- the togepi effect where the entire screen goes dark. is it possible to give mew2 this effect when holding side B, with a maximum time of say 3 seconds and he cannot move when doing so (so that it will confuse people returning to the stage).

any other ideas from people?

The description you gave for Psychic sounds more fitting for Psybeam to me, unless you meant making the beam invisible. But what I think would make a cooler Psychic move is if it were based on Zelda's Din's Fire attack, only make it a light blue/purple explosion, and rather than making it cause knockback, you could have it function like a long ranged grab that drops the opponent down (No spike effect, it would be kind of like how the opponent would fall in the air after taking a small amount of hitstun).

... Granted that would be more difficult to make and would probably be cheap. >______>

cookieM0Nster · Jul 29, 2009

It is perfectly possible to recreate confusion. We can replace Lucario's Down B animation with his crouch (except slowed down, of course), give is a hitbox that hits in front (we can create hitboxes w/ Project SA!), and set the effect to stun, if possible (it should be).

I am more worried about the physical appearance of this whole thing than the editing of the moveset, which should be completely possiple, for the most part.

CountKaiser · Jul 29, 2009

cookiemonster, you just described disable.

Confusion is where mewtwo flipped the opponent, forcing them to the ground and making them get up facing away from mewtwo.

As for other move candidates, I would say mirror coat, but mewtwo can't learn that.

Psychic having a push effect looks interesting. Another interesting option would be recover, where he restores like 25% in the span of 2 seconds. Would be useful for when he get's a star ko, which would be facilitated by giving him the strongest uthrow ever.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

CountKaiser said:
cookiemonster, you just described disable.

Confusion is where mewtwo flipped the opponent, forcing them to the ground and making them get up facing away from mewtwo.

As for other move candidates, I would say mirror coat, but mewtwo can't learn that.

Psychic having a push effect looks interesting. Another interesting option would be recover, where he restores like 25% in the span of 2 seconds. Would be useful for when he get's a star ko, which would be facilitated by giving him the strongest uthrow ever.

yeah could b nice to have recover, as in we swap disable to his side B, and give recovery to his downB. maybe make it so he recovers like 10% or something in about 2 seconds but if interupted it doesnt work (would mean its not spamable or OP). id be perfectly up for that

would be very unique as well

would mean he would have to choose between edgeguarding opponent, or healing himself, as he couldnt do both. maybe 10% would b too low, maybe make it 15-20%

Boo Mansion · Jul 29, 2009

When model hacking becomes possible, aren't they going to be able to make custom animations as well? From what I've read in the topic, each model has a set number of animations for them. If they were to take his Melee model and add missing Brawl animations, such as tripping, it is very well possible that his moveset from Melee could be entirely created or even tweaked a bit. I remember reading somewhere that PW's smash attack's program can copy moves to other characters, however the problem is they lack an animation to carry out that move in the same appearance,but the hit boxes and what not would preform as they normally would/should. This is just going by what I've heard and a bit of theory crafting. I mean theoretically, if we can important models with their own animations, we should be able to replicate his moves however we need them to be, instead of relying on animations already in the game.

Anyway, I think Mewtwo's throws should be close to what they were in Melee. Mewtwo had good throws if I recall correctly, especially the down throw.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

Boo Mansion said:
When model hacking becomes possible, aren't they going to be able to make custom animations as well? From what I've read in the topic, each model has a set number of animations for them. If they were to take his Melee model and add missing Brawl animations, such as tripping, it is very well possible that his moveset from Melee could be entirely created or even tweaked a bit. I remember reading somewhere that PW's smash attack's program can copy moves to other characters, however the problem is they lack an animation to carry out that move in the same appearance,but the hit boxes and what not would preform as they normally would/should. This is just going by what I've heard and a bit of theory crafting. I mean theoretically, if we can important models with their own animations, we should be able to replicate his moves however we need them to be, instead of relying on animations already in the game.

Anyway, I think Mewtwo's throws should be close to what they were in Melee. Mewtwo had good throws if I recall correctly, especially the down throw.

his upthrow was his best one for combos

dabridge · Jul 29, 2009

jalued said:
his upthrow was his best one for combos

Wasn't it more of a kill move? lol

Anyways, I hope you guys have an animator/3D modeler for this, or else it's never going to get done right... using Melee's animations/model wouldn't look too good, and I wouldn't see how it would be done. It can probably be done better with completely new animations, since Lucario's are nothing like Mewtwo's (imagine Lucario standing, now picture Mewtwo standing like that).

Don't say "use the Mewtwo trophy as a model lol" because there were times were I could have been happy with simply a model replacement of Lucario -> Mewtwo, but now that movesets can be done, Mewtwo should be more than a half-done character, as in, not models/animations already found in Brawl. Maybe make it as a base model, but that's it.

Good luck with this, I really want to see Mewtwo in Brawl. I can help if you guys want.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

dabridge said:
Wasn't it more of a kill move? lol

Anyways, I hope you guys have an animator/3D modeler for this, or else it's never going to get done right... using Melee's animations/model wouldn't look too good, and I wouldn't see how it would be done. It can probably be done better with completely new animations, since Lucario's are nothing like Mewtwo's (imagine Lucario standing, now picture Mewtwo standing like that).

Don't say "use the Mewtwo trophy as a model lol" because there were times were I could have been happy with simply a model replacement of Lucario -> Mewtwo, but now that movesets can be done, Mewtwo should be more than a half-done character, as in, not models/animations already found in Brawl. Maybe make it as a base model, but that's it.

Good luck with this, I really want to see Mewtwo in Brawl. I can help if you guys want.

nah cause at low % it would combo on FF's like fox/falco into upair, regrab, shadowclaw etc. his bair was generally the killer. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qleu9Dw8Vqo )

yeah im not sure how u would do it either. i mean shadowclaw is definately wolf's fair, but how would u do his upair,dair,bair,uptilt,ftilt,dtilt, etc? especially getting the animation right. sounds like a very very ahrd task. but deifnately worth it :D

Boo Mansion · Jul 29, 2009

dabridge said:
Wasn't it more of a kill move? lol

Anyways, I hope you guys have an animator/3D modeler for this, or else it's never going to get done right... using Melee's animations/model wouldn't look too good, and I wouldn't see how it would be done. It can probably be done better with completely new animations, since Lucario's are nothing like Mewtwo's (imagine Lucario standing, now picture Mewtwo standing like that).

Don't say "use the Mewtwo trophy as a model lol" because there were times were I could have been happy with simply a model replacement of Lucario -> Mewtwo, but now that movesets can be done, Mewtwo should be more than a half-done character, as in, not models/animations already found in Brawl. Maybe make it as a base model, but that's it.

Good luck with this, I really want to see Mewtwo in Brawl. I can help if you guys want.

They could use his Melee model and re-texture with a more fitting Brawl look. That would be fine in my opinion. Characters like Mario retained most of their Melee animations, so I think Mewtwo should retain most of his.

As far as animations go, I think we need to think of two more taunts for him. His Melee taunt was great, and should probably be his up taunt.

cookieM0Nster · Jul 29, 2009

CountKaiser said:
cookiemonster, you just described disable.

Confusion is where mewtwo flipped the opponent, forcing them to the ground and making them get up facing away from mewtwo.

As for other move candidates, I would say mirror coat, but mewtwo can't learn that.

Psychic having a push effect looks interesting. Another interesting option would be recover, where he restores like 25% in the span of 2 seconds. Would be useful for when he get's a star ko, which would be facilitated by giving him the strongest uthrow ever.

o yea, thats right. sry 4 the misunderstanding, do that for disable

well a least i have all niter johns

hahaha

tsunami70875 · Jul 29, 2009

good luck with this
i'm actually under the opinion that you should go to smogon.com and pull out a competitve moveset, but that's just me ^^

dabridge · Jul 29, 2009

Boo Mansion said:
They could use his Melee model and re-texture with a more fitting Brawl look. That would be fine in my opinion. Characters like Mario retained most of their Melee animations, so I think Mewtwo should retain most of his.

As far as animations go, I think we need to think of two more taunts for him. His Melee taunt was great, and should probably be his up taunt.

Mario's were redone, they just look the same. If they weren't redone, he would probably still have the same hitboxes. Mewtwo was never that good so we would have to make new hitboxes for him, hence new animations (even if they look really close to the Melee animations).

His model would look WAY too blocky compared to everything else in Brawl. This would have to be redone too, not just retextured. Besides, how would we go about extracting Mewtwo's model/animation data from Melee anyway?

bobson · Jul 29, 2009

Confusion was the most ******** move ever. Please give him something useful instead of wasting time trying to accurately recreate it.

His trophy model looks like it would be an acceptable replacement, although it lacks the overall "GRRR" look Melee's Mewtwo had.

I can't imagine what his trip animation would look like.

Edit: And he's going to need an awesome final smash. Earthquake? Hyper Beam? Some implementation of Psychic?

Adetque · Jul 29, 2009

Since the Mewtwo folder is empty, couldn't we create our own models and stuff and put them in the folder and then use a code so it loads those files?

VietGeek · Jul 29, 2009

As for aerial moveset, here's a few obvious ones in terms of animations and general mechanics:

Nair: Lucas's nair (expand to surround Mewtwo's body)
Fair - Wolf's fair (use PSA to add darkness effect)
Bair: Yoshi's bair
Dair: Zelda's dair
Uair: Diddy Kong's uair (?)

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

bobson said:
Confusion was the most ******** move ever. Please give him something useful instead of wasting time trying to accurately recreate it.

His trophy model looks like it would be an acceptable replacement, although it lacks the overall "GRRR" look Melee's Mewtwo had.

I can't imagine what his trip animation would look like.

Edit: And he's going to need an awesome final smash. Earthquake? Hyper Beam? Some implementation of Psychic?

im hoping switch his disable to side B,and make his down B recover (heals 15-20% damage but takes 120-180 frames to do, and if interupted during that is cancelled

gemini-saga · Jul 29, 2009

Using MewTwo Model from pokemon Battle Revolution wouldn't be a better Idea? Since it's up to date to this generation?

cookieM0Nster · Jul 29, 2009

Adetque said:
Since the Mewtwo folder is empty, couldn't we create our own models and stuff and put them in the folder and then use a code so it loads those files?

no, because the folder is loaded when the character is selected on the CSS, and there is no icon for mewtwo. so, that will not work.

timothyung · Jul 29, 2009

We can just ignore the animations for now...We first must find moves with similar hitboxes to Mewtwo's. For example, Lucas's nair is quite similar to Mewtwo's. So we'll grab the scripts from that, then edit it to make the hitboxes accurate. Let's find moves with hitboxes resembling Mewtwo's. Remember, we can rework the speed, hitboxes size, numbers and such, but editing existing scripts would be much easier.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

timothyung said:
We can just ignore the animations for now...We first must find moves with similar hitboxes to Mewtwo's. For example, Lucas's nair is quite similar to Mewtwo's. So we'll grab the scripts from that, then edit it to make the hitboxes accurate. Let's find moves with hitboxes resembling Mewtwo's. Remember, we can rework the speed, hitboxes size, numbers and such, but editing existing scripts would be much easier.

yeah i guess and see how it is, and then try to work round it when new hacking techniques are found

GHNeko · Jul 29, 2009

...wat is this...i dont even...

.....

*sigh*

Maybe we could at least fancy Taj a go at this if we get this going.

Adapt · Jul 29, 2009

VietGeek said:
As for aerial moveset, here's a few obvious ones in terms of animations and general mechanics:

Nair: Lucas's nair (expand to surround Mewtwo's body)
Fair - Wolf's fair (use PSA to add darkness effect)
Bair: Yoshi's bair
Dair: Zelda's dair
Uair: Diddy Kong's uair (?)

I think Samus's Dair is a better fit.
Here is a full list (minus moves I can't remember off-hand). Obviously some need to be modified

Nair: Combination of Lucas + Lucario
Fair: Wolf
Bair: Yoshi
Dair: Samus
Uair: Diddy

F-smash: Mario (if I remember the move correctly)
U-smash: Samus
D-smash: ZSS

B: Lucario
Side-B:
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B:

Jab:
Ftilt: Yoshi
Utilt:
Dtilt: Pikachu
Dash: Zelda

B-throw: Ness
F-throw: Falco's B-throw?
U-throw: Ness?
D-throw: ZSS?

smashmaniac2008 · Jul 29, 2009

his forward smash was more like lucarios but with Mario's F-Smash mechanics if i remember correctly and causes way more damage and knockback

VietGeek · Jul 29, 2009

Samus'? Maybe. But doesn't Mewtwo do this twirl then strike his foot down? Because of that, I think Zelda's would be more faithful to Mewtwo overall. IDK, either could work I guess. =P

For some of Mewtwo's lackluster moves like jab and whatever throw had all the shadow balls, we should scrap those and give him moves he might actually...you know...like to use.

IMO anyway. Also for Mewtwo's dtilt, Pika's work, but if we can't give Mewtwo custom skeleton-work, Fox's looks almost EXACTLY like Mewtwo's (super ****) dtilt.

Boo Mansion · Jul 29, 2009

dabridge said:
Mario's were redone, they just look the same. If they weren't redone, he would probably still have the same hitboxes. Mewtwo was never that good so we would have to make new hitboxes for him, hence new animations (even if they look really close to the Melee animations).

His model would look WAY too blocky compared to everything else in Brawl. This would have to be redone too, not just retextured. Besides, how would we go about extracting Mewtwo's model/animation data from Melee anyway?

Animations =/= Hit Boxes

PW's program shows that when using Pheonix Mario's down b. Those hitboxes aren't part of his normal down tilted fsmash. Most of Mario's animations are the same. Just a different model and a few touch ups.

I mean that Mewtwo should keep the animations he had in Melee (This should be possible once model hacking is figured out), aside from any possible touch ups that they might need to look even better (or any new moves that he is given). Animations like his standing on the edge of the stage were cool (where he rocks back and forth).

Toronto Joe · Jul 29, 2009

Ban Mewtwo

aceofdiamonds825 · Jul 29, 2009

bobson said:
Confusion was the most ******** move ever. Please give him something useful instead of wasting time trying to accurately recreate it.

His trophy model looks like it would be an acceptable replacement, although it lacks the overall "GRRR" look Melee's Mewtwo had.

I can't imagine what his trip animation would look like.

Edit: And he's going to need an awesome final smash. Earthquake? Hyper Beam? Some implementation of Psychic?

I think for mewtwo's final smash it could be done by using the attack from deoxys when he comes out of the pokeball (i think it's hyper beam). Also it would be cool to give him a floating animation when he is standing and running (maybe steal the running animation from charizard?)

VietGeek · Jul 29, 2009

Steal Meta Knight's running animation. I'm dead serious. =V

Also for Mewtwo's utilt, Pika and Yoshi's are the closest in regards to pre-existing animation.

However imo we should probably just take Lucas'. =3

As for his Final Smash, it should be Luigi's FS except all purple and extremely sped up, with the initial hit being able to KO (seriously FS's aren't even anywhere closed to balanced so let's just make them badass) and it disappears very quickly. Anyone caught in the aftermath only suffers damage, no KB.

Also, his animation during this should be something like Zelda's Usmash. In fact...Mewtwo's usmash is closer to Zelda's or Peach's utilt than Samus' usmash.

jalued · Jul 29, 2009

VietGeek said:
Steal Meta Knight's running animation. I'm dead serious. =V

Also for Mewtwo's utilt, Pika and Yoshi's are the closest in regards to pre-existing animation.

However imo we should probably just take Lucas'. =3

As for his Final Smash, it should be Luigi's FS except all purple and extremely sped up, with the initial hit being able to KO (seriously FS's aren't even anywhere closed to balanced so let's just make them badass) and it disappears very quickly. Anyone caught in the aftermath only suffers damage, no KB.

Also, his animation during this should be something like Zelda's Usmash. In fact...Mewtwo's usmash is closer to Zelda's or Peach's utilt than Samus' usmash.

peaches uptilt sounds the best choice to me, mew2's upsmash is a multi hit move right?

how would we do his voice???

Boo Mansion · Jul 29, 2009

jalued said:
peaches uptilt sounds the best choice to me, mew2's upsmash is a multi hit move right?

how would we do his voice???

Replace sound effects that are rarely, never or just completely unused. The sound effects could then be called by his moves.

VietGeek · Jul 29, 2009

Mewtwo's usmash is multi-hit, although with PW's proof of concept (PMario)'s fair, I'm guessing we can add pre-existing hitboxes onto one another, so we can still use peach's utilt animation...with say Zelda's usmash hitboxes.

His voice...idk, it'll be cool if we had a BRSAR repacker.

We should mute him and make him the silent killer, and attack SFX...I agree with the above but again...you need a repacker.

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