Help with the Regrab

RandomLax · Jul 30, 2009

Recently going against my friend's Lucas
I have been getting infinited to redeem his stock for an SD
It is so far inescapable
And horribly hindering my Ness' advancement
and also making me reconsider maining Ness
Lucas can infinite Ness...
Lucas cant be infinited by Ness...
I'm sorry if this thread was already made,
however I desprately need an escape tactic,
Ref's grab doesnt work, and Extra inch DI also fails...

Sakurai Hates Ness...

If anyone has a solution please post

Neon Ness · Jul 30, 2009

Don't get grabbed, there's nothing you can do about it.

And if this is making you consider quitting Ness, then... yikes. Almost every character in the game can do something horrendous to Ness/Lucas out of grab release.

Extra Inch DI doesn't exist, by the way.

RandomLax · Jul 30, 2009

Not Getting grabbed...
got any suggestions?
Also its only consideration [due to frustration].
and I'm aware what ofher characters can do...
Oh thanks for the heads up about
Extra In. Di

Also Nice avatar Neon

Neon Ness · Jul 31, 2009

Lucas' pivot grab is the one you need to watch out for. His normal grab is, well... bad. :/ Keep your distance for the most part... And beware if he runs at you, a lot of times you'll feel pressured to shield/sidestep, and they'll run past you for a free pivot grab.

Staying airborne is important. Short hop dair keeps people at bay most of the time, that move is pretty safe. Retreat fairs so as not to get shieldgrabbed upon landing.

You have to read your opponent, here. See when he's most likely to go for a (pivot) grab, and know how to react accordingly.

Man of Popsicle · Jul 31, 2009

How in the hell does lucas infinite ness?

RandomLax · Jul 31, 2009

Grab-->Pummel-->Grab-->Pummel etc.

Man of Popsicle · Jul 31, 2009

I'm having a hard time believing this.

Uffe · Jul 31, 2009

Man of Popsicle said:
I'm having a hard time believing this.

Agreed. Lucas doesn't have an infinite on Ness. And if he does, that's news to me.

PMKNG · Jul 31, 2009

cousin has tried that on me, but nothing that di doesn't fix....but it can lead to a few % of dmg I will admit.
If i recall correctly, all you need to do is hold to the opposite side of the lucas, thats what I did. and eventually you'll get far enough to possibly spotdodge or run from the regrab. Idk, maybe if the lucas buffers the second grab it could work. doubt it though.

also, ness has something on lucas
dash grab>release>dash grab, ALSO able to escape with di, but can catch an opponent off gaurd
and done so the lucas releases off the edge of the stage almost always leads to a spike...
works on both lucas and ness sadly

Neon Ness · Jul 31, 2009

Really?

I was under the impression that Lucas' against Ness was a true infinite. When I had it done to me, I couldn't DI out or escape or anything. Guess that's just me being bad at this game again.

Thing is, if the Lucas knows you're going to try and escape he can forward tilt out of grab release without fail, instead of trying to go for another grab. Which is not as bad as Marth's post-Grab Release options, I guess, but still... damage is damage.

This makes me wonder if Link, Zero Suit Samus, Samus, Toon Link, Olimar, and Ivysaur can do the same...perform the (pseudo?)infinite with their tether grabs, I mean.

RandomLax · Jul 31, 2009

Neon Ness said:
Really?

I was under the impression that Lucas' against Ness was a true infinite. When I had it done to me, I couldn't DI out or escape or anything. Guess that's just me being bad at this game again.

This makes me wonder if Link, Zero Suit Samus, Samus, Toon Link, Olimar, and Ivysaur can do the same...perform the (pseudo?)infinite with their tether grabs, I mean.

I get the impression its a true infinite due to lack of a reliable escape however I'm not sure about the others

PMKNG said:
also, ness has something on lucas
dash grab>release>dash grab, ALSO able to escape with di, but can catch an opponent off gaurd
and done so the lucas releases off the edge of the stage almost always leads to a spike...
works on both lucas and ness sadly

No you can't Lucas' grab release seem to end earlier than Ness'
I can chain another Ness' but lucas always escapes which can
lead to another chaingrab. Also Lucas can't chain himself

PMKNG · Jul 31, 2009

I'm telling you, you can get out of it. I just did it, crudely testing it myself with two controllers in my lap, constantly pressing grab with lucas, spinning the control stick with ness on my other hand. If i can do it with one hand it shouldn't be impossible with two. I can maybe get my gf to test it, since all shed have to do is press grab tomorrow lol.
and I've done it against my cousin who mained lucas for some time, so I still disagree that its an infinite.
Unless there was something recently learned about lucas' grab?

RandomLax · Jul 31, 2009

PMKNG said:
I'm telling you, you can get out of it. I just did it, crudely testing it myself with two controllers in my lap, constantly pressing grab with lucas, spinning the control stick with ness on my other hand. If i can do it with one hand it shouldn't be impossible with two. I can maybe get my gf to test it, since all shed have to do is press grab tomorrow lol.
and I've done it against my cousin who mained lucas for some time, so I still disagree that its an infinite.
Unless there was something recently learned about lucas' grab?

Are you shieldgrabbing or z-grabbing?
because I believe its done with Shield Grabbing
constantly tapping 'A'

NintenJoe · Jul 31, 2009

this is an infinite. I play a very good Lucas frequently and this is inescapable. The rope snake is what makes this non DI-able.

Also Ness' "chaingrab" on Lucas never works.

Atex-Error · Jul 31, 2009

the thing with Lucas is that he's strong i Main A lot of people and Lucas ad Ness are in their

Lucas has combos that rack up damage quickly with out trying, so if your Ness he is a grab Punish guy like King DDD.

so if Lucas makes one mistake punish it with grabs. and Ness has Tricky Moves, like the Pk thunder Mindgame, cmon his Yo-Yo moves can hit twice and his Head is stronger then Lucas' grabs lead to dangerous combos wit Ness that can KO A LOT.'

also throw lucas far off the stage and absorb his Pk thunder so he dies -_______- cheapest way to kill Ness and Lucas, or when he is almost at the ledge do a Pk Fire and since he's stuck there Spike him or do a Pk Pulse or something be creative =D

Uffe · Jul 31, 2009

RandomLax said:
Are you shieldgrabbing or z-grabbing?
because I believe its done with Shield Grabbing
constantly tapping 'A'

Grabbing with Z would probably be a tad quicker than grabbing than L/R + A, so I don't know how that's relevant.

NintenJoe said:
this is an infinite. I play a very good Lucas frequently and this is inescapable. The rope snake is what makes this non DI-able.

Also Ness' "chaingrab" on Lucas never works.

Aren't tether grabs slower than regular ones? If Ness' doesn't work, then I have no idea how Lucas' can work. I really do wish I could play Brawl to check this out, because I'm still not believing it.

1337-Zero · Jul 31, 2009

If the grab is an infinite, why is our Lucas matchup 60:40 Ness?

Unless our matchup thread is really outdated :/

EDIT: By which I mean: If it was an infinite, the matchup would be in Lucas's favor, right? Doesn't jump break fix this anyways?

PMKNG · Jul 31, 2009

I did it with both r+a and in my case x grab.
It is hard to get out of, but even with my gf just mashing x I still had a very thin time frame to spot dodge, id recommend spot dodging since I think if you roll the grab can still get you. I know this isnt full proof cause well, my gf doesnt smash competitively but considering all it is is repressing the grab button I doubt theres anything we couldve messed up on.

Please try it out yourself though, what I did was spin the control stick around to break out of it earlier, spot dodged right away and then the tether is let out but since it doesn't grab you they are stuck in the ending animation. Run away, attack do w.e

Avenu · Jul 31, 2009

Atex-Error said:
also throw lucas far off the stage and absorb his Pk thunder so he dies -_______- cheapest way to kill Ness and Lucas, or when he is almost at the ledge do a Pk Fire and since he's stuck there Spike him or do a Pk Pulse or something be creative =D

Lucas' PK Thunder goes through enemies. It's funny watching somebody try and absorb it and end up getting PKT2'd instead.

NintenJoe · Jul 31, 2009

Uffe said:
Aren't tether grabs slower than regular ones? If Ness' doesn't work, then I have no idea how Lucas' can work. I really do wish I could play Brawl to check this out, because I'm still not believing it.

Lucas isn't close enough to Ness when he's released and it gives Lucas time to spot dodge before regrab. Lucas' rope snake doesn't have a lot of starting lag and usually tethers aren't that much slower coming out. The only ones who are noticably slower are Zamus' and Samus' tether. Lucas' has terrible ending lag, but minimal start up, and is only slightly slower then normal grabs.

1337-Zero · Jul 31, 2009

Avenu said:
Lucas' PK Thunder goes through enemies. It's funny watching somebody try and absorb it and end up getting PKT2'd instead.

He was being quite literal when he said "absorb", my friend. He means use down B to eat Lucas's thunder.

RandomLax · Jul 31, 2009

Uffe said:
Grabbing with Z would probably be a tad quicker than grabbing than L/R + A, so I don't know how that's relevant.

Aren't tether grabs slower than regular ones? If Ness' doesn't work, then I have no idea how Lucas' can work. I really do wish I could play Brawl to check this out, because I'm still not believing it.

Shieldgrabbing helps due to Z occasionaly doing a jab combo or shielding

1337-Zero said:
If the grab is an infinite, why is our Lucas matchup 60:40 Ness?

Unless our matchup thread is really outdated :/

EDIT: By which I mean: If it was an infinite, the matchup would be in Lucas's favor, right? Doesn't jump break fix this anyways?

I don't know, however the subject really should be given further discussion...

Atex-Error · Jul 31, 2009

mindgames my friend mindgames

Ness has a Pk Fire mind game

well i use these 2

normal PK Fire then jump PK FIre, then grab let the pk fire still hit him while your hitting him as well and follow up with any throw you want it racks up damage =/

or just fool around with (IDK how its called but when you tilt your control stick left and right very quickly) and jump back then do a PK fire and grab and throw where ever you want.

lol heres a funny one (well IMO)

throw Lucas off the stage and do a PK Flash and that lucas player might think your gonna let it go and he's gonna absorb it right? WRONG keep it and he would do the Pk magnet and go passed the ledge so then you go down and do your PK magnet and abosrb his PK thunder =D

its easy if your a Ness Mainer, fighting Lucas is Fun =D

Avenu · Jul 31, 2009

1337-Zero said:
He was being quite literal when he said "absorb", my friend. He means use down B to eat Lucas's thunder.

Ah, I see. My mistake haha.

BSP · Aug 1, 2009

Atex-Error said:
mindgames my friend mindgames

Ness has a Pk Fire mind game

well i use these 2

normal PK Fire then jump PK FIre, then grab let the pk fire still hit him while your hitting him as well and follow up with any throw you want it racks up damage =/

or just fool around with (IDK how its called but when you tilt your control stick left and right very quickly) and jump back then do a PK fire and grab and throw where ever you want.

lol heres a funny one (well IMO)

throw Lucas off the stage and do a PK Flash and that lucas player might think your gonna let it go and he's gonna absorb it right? WRONG keep it and he would do the Pk magnet and go passed the ledge so then you go down and do your PK magnet and abosrb his PK thunder =D

its easy if your a Ness Mainer, fighting Lucas is Fun =D

I think you're talking about dash dancing.

xoxokev · Aug 1, 2009

Uffe said:
Agreed. Lucas doesn't have an infinite on Ness. And if he does, that's news to me.

this.

10 chars

~Pink Fresh~ · Aug 1, 2009

The grab is 13 frames. Doesn't Ness have like 10 frames of delay or something?

13 - 10 = 3

I'm pretty sure spotdodges have a two frames startup until invincibility.
so..

3 - 2 = 1

Not an infinite?

Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, as I could be.

I do know that we can grab -> pummel until -> dtilt trip -> regrab.

but... it's extremely hard to do, and pretty impractical. =/

RandomLax · Aug 1, 2009

~Pink Fresh~ said:
The grab is 13 frames. Doesn't Ness have like 10 frames of delay or something?

13 - 10 = 3

I'm pretty sure spotdodges have a two frames startup until invincibility.
so..

3 - 2 = 1

Not an infinite?

Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, as I could be.

I do know that we can grab -> pummel until -> dtilt trip -> regrab.

but... it's extremely hard to do, and pretty impractical. =/

I actually thought there were 20 frames of delay, does anyone know the exact number?

Levitas · Aug 2, 2009

10 frames disadvantage for the ness being released. PF is right, this is avoidable.

iirc, you can even buffer a spotdodge to avoid it every time.

PMKNG · Aug 2, 2009

TOLD YOOUUUU lol

Neon Ness · Aug 2, 2009

Levitas said:
10 frames disadvantage for the ness being released. PF is right, this is avoidable.

iirc, you can even buffer a spotdodge to avoid it every time.

WHAT.

Well, then it goes back to my original theory of me being bad at this game, I guess. I honestly thought it was a true infinite.

Go figure...

RandomLax · Aug 2, 2009

Levitas said:
10 frames disadvantage for the ness being released. PF is right, this is avoidable.

iirc, you can even buffer a spotdodge to avoid it every time.

Oh ok then, thanks everybody good to see it is escapable even though there is only one frame to escape...

Neon Ness said:
WHAT.

Well, then it goes back to my original theory of me being bad at this game, I guess. I honestly thought it was a true infinite.

Go figure...

You and me both...

Man of Popsicle · Aug 2, 2009

randomlax said:
oh Ok Then Thanks Everybody Good To See It Is Escapable Even Though There Is Only One Frame To Escape...

11.

.

Atex-Error · Aug 2, 2009

lol

the way RandomLax wrote it is funny

its like yeah it could be done

but its hard to do >.> thanks for that help Smash Boards

XD

well glad everything is cleared up here.

Ness Mainers i think are the friendliest or most helpful IMO

GO NESS!

Uffe · Aug 3, 2009

Atex-Error said:
lol

the way RandomLax wrote it is funny

its like yeah it could be done

but its hard to do >.> thanks for that help Smash Boards

XD

well glad everything is cleared up here.

Ness Mainers i think are the friendliest or most helpful IMO

GO NESS!

The Ness AND Lucas boards.

'Cause we're kids at heart.

PMKNG · Aug 3, 2009

and we have nice shoes.

Atex-Error · Aug 3, 2009

yep Lucas 2

we do have nice shoes don't we =D

EdreesesPieces · Aug 3, 2009

Wait, so Ness has 1 frame to escape Lucas infinite. How many frames does Lucas have to escape Ness's dash grab regrab? I personally feel like its guaranteed..

Man of Popsicle · Aug 3, 2009

Ness has eleven frames to escape.

Ref · Aug 9, 2009

Umm Ness could regrab lucas frame data wise with the start of his dashing grab, but... I'm not sure if Ness can reach lucas in time with his dashing grab at the distance lucas slides. If Ness' dashing grab reaches lucas on frames 8-11 from the break point he should be able to but if lucas' slide pushes it to 12 then he can spot dodge... Umm I would test it but currently my recording equipment is currently not set up.

30 to 40 10 frame difference..
8 is the earliest Ness can grab in his dashing grab, I don't know the latest.
1 more for start up of spot dodges,

Ness has to grab sometime between the 8th and 11th frame... Might just be do able... If i can set everything up I'll test... Don't think I will be able to.

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