Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
The Donkey Kong matchup discussion is here.
Matchup: Donkey Kong
Intro: A matchup that would seemingly be in Pit's favor since DK is a big target, but don't underestimate the ape. He has one of the longest melee ranges in the game, and is one of the faster and more powerful heavyweights as well. The matchup itself seems interesting since these 2 characters are quite close with different attributes.
Okay, DK outranges Pit, like most of the cast do, and has great power, which would seem that Pit can easily be KO'd around 100%, as well as being really heavy that really makes Pit's poor KO power even worse. Pit, however, has a few stuff of his own (besides his arrows) that can really help him in the match, but first, let's see what behaviors DKs have.
Noobish DK behaviors usually involve Smash and grab spam, a bit of D-tilt spam as well. Try retreating a bit while shooting arrows to slowly build up damage, as well as refreshing your KO moves whenever you need them.
Better DKs will use B-air as their spacing tool, like Marth is to F-air, and these can destroy arrows.
Pit can CG DK easier than basically any other character since DK is so big, and really doesn't have a quick enough move to avoid it. Pit can use his F-throw CG from around 0-50% (Mid 40's seems more accurate) with ease.
According to Doctor X, DK's DI won't really help him if you can buffer the dash properly. Get him off stage, and we can pretty much knock him out.
DK is one of the easier characters for Pit to gimp. His limited and usually predictable recovery usually gets his Up-B Mirror Shielded from a good Pit. DK can stall just a bit with Side-B, but predicting it can allow you to punish DK. Pressure him with arrows first, not only to damage him a bit, but to allow you to further narrow down DK's options.
DK is capable of doing a few things to Pit when Pit's off stage. He can spike, use B-air to knock us back and hit us outta our gliding with its great range, and that's basically it. While we recover, you can choose to shoot arrows to stop DK from pursuing us a bit, and give a bit of damage. We can ledgecamp DK somewhat well with arrows, but watch out for DK's range.
One of the more recent types of KOs a DK can do is the Cargo Stage Spike. This works by the DK getting you do a good enough damage, say like, outta the random, 90%. Then the DK grabs and uses F-throw, which actually makes DK carry you, which is the cargo stance. DK will then carry you offstage and throw you into the stage ledge, which, in other words, is a stage spike.
You can escape the DK Cargo quite quickly by just holding Down or Up on the control stick, which can save you a bit of button mashing, and your controller from some pain. Try button mashing a bit while holding Down or Up on the Control Stick to escape a bit quicker, but don't pressure yourself or the controller too much.
After playing another DK for a bit, I realized and remembered that we can Shieldgrab a really close DK B-air. This may not be often depending on the DK, but keep this in mind.
The matchup puts DK's Range/Power and Good Heavyweight speed and Pit's own speed, arrows, gimping capability, CGs, and ledgecamping against each other.
_________________________________
Quote by Ripple:
ok I'm saying this first the match up is either 55-45 in pit's advantage because of the fact that DK can't punish him the other characters in the game.
Pit can consistantly attack the upper tip of DK's shield with fair so it can possibly shield stab, and if it doesn't we can't punish because of the disjointed hitboxes and because it can auto cancel.
fair isn't the only problem in this match up. all of pit's aerials can auto cancel and all are disjointed. this is not good for dk since dk relies on punishing attacks for a morjority of his damage and kills.
arrows can also give dk some trouble to but not too much. the arrows mainly just limit dk's mobility and his ability to get in near pit. arrows should never hit DK more than 6-7 times per stock (unless we're on a cp).
mirror shield
ok this where most pit's go crazy. "we have a mirror shield that gimps dk. 70-30 pit or better. lol" -wrong! this is the same kind or thinking that makes characters who have a spike automaically think they have an advantage over dk because his recovery is predictable in most ways. most people don't think about dk's weight or aerial mobility. DK is the heaviest character overall in this game and his mobility is at the top of A rank (along with his up-b brake) making DK the hardest character to kill in the game. which means that dk won't be knocked away far enough from the edge to be mirror shielded until high %. while pit on the other hand will usually die from a DK down smash around 100%. another thing that people forget about is that most attacks that pit has hit the opponent in a more upward direction making MS less useful. but even with all that I still find myself being mirror gimped at least once every 2 games. it is still something to watch out for.
kill%
pit can kill dk around 130% with bair, f-smash and MS gimp but thats all. everything else won't kill until much later.
DK kills pit starting at 80%. d-smash, f-smash, SA punch, up-smash. and bair at 130% if its fresh. this is pretty much the only favor DK has in this match up but its such a ridiculous one that it makes it not so completely 1 sided.
chaingrab
who doesn't have one on DK? it only does 40% and we're thrown off stage facing a very unlikely MS gimp but almost a guaranteed arrow or 2. ( the air release to gimp you were talking about doesn't seem very plausible since DK must completely be offstage for it to happen and then its not even guaranteed)
spacing
bair outspaces everything you have. its good don't underestimate it.
you have arrows and disjointed hitboxes. they limit our approach (which is either run or bair)
Thanks Ripple.
___________________________________
Ratio placed at 55:45 Pit's advantage
Any corrections are also appreciative.
Matchup: Donkey Kong
Intro: A matchup that would seemingly be in Pit's favor since DK is a big target, but don't underestimate the ape. He has one of the longest melee ranges in the game, and is one of the faster and more powerful heavyweights as well. The matchup itself seems interesting since these 2 characters are quite close with different attributes.
Okay, DK outranges Pit, like most of the cast do, and has great power, which would seem that Pit can easily be KO'd around 100%, as well as being really heavy that really makes Pit's poor KO power even worse. Pit, however, has a few stuff of his own (besides his arrows) that can really help him in the match, but first, let's see what behaviors DKs have.
Noobish DK behaviors usually involve Smash and grab spam, a bit of D-tilt spam as well. Try retreating a bit while shooting arrows to slowly build up damage, as well as refreshing your KO moves whenever you need them.
Better DKs will use B-air as their spacing tool, like Marth is to F-air, and these can destroy arrows.
Pit can CG DK easier than basically any other character since DK is so big, and really doesn't have a quick enough move to avoid it. Pit can use his F-throw CG from around 0-50% (Mid 40's seems more accurate) with ease.
According to Doctor X, DK's DI won't really help him if you can buffer the dash properly. Get him off stage, and we can pretty much knock him out.
DK is one of the easier characters for Pit to gimp. His limited and usually predictable recovery usually gets his Up-B Mirror Shielded from a good Pit. DK can stall just a bit with Side-B, but predicting it can allow you to punish DK. Pressure him with arrows first, not only to damage him a bit, but to allow you to further narrow down DK's options.
DK is capable of doing a few things to Pit when Pit's off stage. He can spike, use B-air to knock us back and hit us outta our gliding with its great range, and that's basically it. While we recover, you can choose to shoot arrows to stop DK from pursuing us a bit, and give a bit of damage. We can ledgecamp DK somewhat well with arrows, but watch out for DK's range.
One of the more recent types of KOs a DK can do is the Cargo Stage Spike. This works by the DK getting you do a good enough damage, say like, outta the random, 90%. Then the DK grabs and uses F-throw, which actually makes DK carry you, which is the cargo stance. DK will then carry you offstage and throw you into the stage ledge, which, in other words, is a stage spike.
You can escape the DK Cargo quite quickly by just holding Down or Up on the control stick, which can save you a bit of button mashing, and your controller from some pain. Try button mashing a bit while holding Down or Up on the Control Stick to escape a bit quicker, but don't pressure yourself or the controller too much.
After playing another DK for a bit, I realized and remembered that we can Shieldgrab a really close DK B-air. This may not be often depending on the DK, but keep this in mind.
The matchup puts DK's Range/Power and Good Heavyweight speed and Pit's own speed, arrows, gimping capability, CGs, and ledgecamping against each other.
_________________________________
Quote by Ripple:
ok I'm saying this first the match up is either 55-45 in pit's advantage because of the fact that DK can't punish him the other characters in the game.
Pit can consistantly attack the upper tip of DK's shield with fair so it can possibly shield stab, and if it doesn't we can't punish because of the disjointed hitboxes and because it can auto cancel.
fair isn't the only problem in this match up. all of pit's aerials can auto cancel and all are disjointed. this is not good for dk since dk relies on punishing attacks for a morjority of his damage and kills.
arrows can also give dk some trouble to but not too much. the arrows mainly just limit dk's mobility and his ability to get in near pit. arrows should never hit DK more than 6-7 times per stock (unless we're on a cp).
mirror shield
ok this where most pit's go crazy. "we have a mirror shield that gimps dk. 70-30 pit or better. lol" -wrong! this is the same kind or thinking that makes characters who have a spike automaically think they have an advantage over dk because his recovery is predictable in most ways. most people don't think about dk's weight or aerial mobility. DK is the heaviest character overall in this game and his mobility is at the top of A rank (along with his up-b brake) making DK the hardest character to kill in the game. which means that dk won't be knocked away far enough from the edge to be mirror shielded until high %. while pit on the other hand will usually die from a DK down smash around 100%. another thing that people forget about is that most attacks that pit has hit the opponent in a more upward direction making MS less useful. but even with all that I still find myself being mirror gimped at least once every 2 games. it is still something to watch out for.
kill%
pit can kill dk around 130% with bair, f-smash and MS gimp but thats all. everything else won't kill until much later.
DK kills pit starting at 80%. d-smash, f-smash, SA punch, up-smash. and bair at 130% if its fresh. this is pretty much the only favor DK has in this match up but its such a ridiculous one that it makes it not so completely 1 sided.
chaingrab
who doesn't have one on DK? it only does 40% and we're thrown off stage facing a very unlikely MS gimp but almost a guaranteed arrow or 2. ( the air release to gimp you were talking about doesn't seem very plausible since DK must completely be offstage for it to happen and then its not even guaranteed)
spacing
bair outspaces everything you have. its good don't underestimate it.
you have arrows and disjointed hitboxes. they limit our approach (which is either run or bair)
Thanks Ripple.
___________________________________
Ratio placed at 55:45 Pit's advantage
Any corrections are also appreciative.