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Matchup Thread Export: Diddy Kong

UTDZac

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:metaknight: :snake: :wario: :falco: :diddy: :dedede: :marth: :olimar: :popo: :toonlink:


DIDDY KONG



DIFFICULTY: HARD - 40:60

Quick Tips
  • Down-smash after down-throw? NO (only if they can buffer the roll, otherwise YES)
  • Bucket anything? NO
  • Practice glide-tossing bananas. If a glide-tossed banana connects you can follow up with dsmash, fsmash, grab, or judgment.
  • To pick up Diddy's Banana's try UpB to Fastfall Nair (just buffer it) to Bair. If done correctly, it will bair cancel and pick up the banana right as you touch the ground.


Videos


General Matchup
  • Diddy’s bananas are the focal point of his game. He will be using them to control the stage, combo with them (yes, actual combos), and for mind game purposes. What really makes things incredibly frustrating is that the bananas will go through ALL of G&W attacks, including Dtilt, Bair and Up B (when you’re not invincible). This can give G&W major problems with approaching because he relies on his fortress of priority to pierce through stuff.
  • However, when you look at Diddy’s other attacks, they pale in comparison to G&W’s high priority, disjointed, lingering attacks.
  • G&W is pretty screwed if he gets caught in bananas. His get-up attack is mediocre and his roll is bad. An expert Diddy player will have no problem at all following up a trip with his amazing Dash into more attacks, or more banana tripping suckage for G&W.
  • As bad as this all sounds, Diddy has one major flaw: he is one of the worst characters in the game when it comes to killing. His main kill options are Fsmash, Dsmash, and Fair. Diddy must keep these moves fresh at all times or he won’t be killing G&W until the 160-170 range. Even with fresh kill moves, Diddy STILL has problems killing G&W unless he’s right on the edge of the stage. There is nothing more demoralizing for Diddy than G&W surviving a fresh Fsmash at 130% and recovering with ease.
  • Diddy is very lightweight (not featherweight like G&W obviously). He dies very quickly to G&W’s smashes and Fair. When you compare percentages at which both characters kill each other, G&W has a huge advantage over Diddy without question.
  • GW is one of the worst characters in the game at dealing with bananas because he has to be very close to pick them up, has a very slow dash attack to move through them, and has a very hard to perform glide toss.


Basic Strategies
  • Pay a lot of attention to where the bananas are at all times. Don’t just approach normally. Use shield cancelled dashes, air dodges, and Up B to bait banana tossing. You don’t want Diddy getting you in a nasty combo if you get tripped by a banana.
  • Pressure Diddy as much as you can. Don’t let him set up his bananas uncontested. It is almost as bad as letting Snake plant his mines, C4, grenades and mortarslide around everywhere. If you can successfully put pressure on Diddy and keep him from fully utilizing bananas, you’ll make this matchup a hell of a lot easier. Use a lot of autocancelled nairs to keep a lot of pressure on diddy when he doesn't have his bananas out.
  • If you’re knocked offstage, Diddy is more than likely going to go for a spike/gimp on you. If he tries to spike you (either with his Dair or the jetpack), Uair him to get Diddy off of you. If he attempts to do his teabagging grab (side B), Up B to get out of trouble and blowing him away.
  • Stay in the air. G&W’s aerials flat out dominate Diddy’s aerials. Don’t get me wrong, Diddy has great aerials, but they don’t match up to G&W’s massive disjointed hitboxes. The other big reason to stay in the air is so you don’t trip like you would on the ground.
  • If you manage to pick up a banana, abuse G&W’s glide toss as much as you can. G&W’s glide toss is absolutely ridiculous, allowing him to traverse almost halfway across Final Destination. Glide toss into *move* is great stuff. Just remember where the other banana is or you could slide right into it.
  • Diddy is in trouble if he’s off the stage with G&W. Without a place to use his bananas, Diddy’s options are severely limited. Fair is great at hitting him back off the stage. Diddy has his Side B to give him a decent boost sideways, but his Up B must be charged if he’s going to get back. Make sure you don’t waste your invincibility frames while on the ledge because the jetpack blast stage spikes. If Diddy overshoots the ledge, he’ll be open for punishment.
  • One of gw's biggest assets in this match is the up b. If you find yourself in a lot of banana pressure, up b to either get up to a platform quickly or to just get in the air to get an aerial approach going. Always remember that being on the ground vs. diddy is a very bad idea.


Stages
  • Maps that have lots of aerial fighting and with few opportunities for Diddy to set up his bananas are the best stages. Rainbow Cruise fits the bill perfectly; most of the fighting is in the air, and the constantly scrolling stage limits Diddy’s banana game.
  • Avoid linear stages where Diddy can easily set up bananas and easily do craploads of damage on you. Final Destination would be a very good example; the flat surface gives Diddy tons of room for him to operate, and it gives G&W not so many options to approach Diddy when he has his bananas set up.


Frame Data
  • Neutral B: N/A
  • Side B: 19
  • Up B: N/A
  • Down B: N/A
  • Fsmash: 12, 21 (26 if the first hit connects)
  • Dsmash: 6, 15
  • Usmash: 5, 11, 18
  • Ftilt: 10
  • Dtilt: 4
  • Utilt: 6
  • Nair: 7, 10
  • Fair: 6
  • Bair: 5
  • Uair: 3
  • Dair: 13
  • Jab: 3, 6, 10
  • Dash Attack: 9, 14, 20
  • Standing Grab: 6
  • Dash Grab: 10
  • Pivot Grab: 8
 

A2ZOMG

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This matchup forces you to be technical....as long as you can get past that hurdle, and if you have your own knowledge with what Bananas can be used for, this matchup isn't so bad and pretty winnable. And then you get to counterpick ****.

Basically learn to Z catch Bananas in the air. The easy way to defend against bananas is by shielding as he throws them, then jumping out of shield to catch them. To pick up Bananas from the ground, do your usual F-air or SH N-air spacings as you run up to the Banana (or Z catch them. Think how you would time wavelanding in Melee).

And of course, set up ledge traps, throw Bananas upwards if you have nothing better to do, and most importantly make sure you don't throw them at him when he has a window to catch them with one of his attacks. And of course Bucket Brake with Banana tosses when you can.

Oh and edgeguarding Diddy with his Bananas is not only sexy, but very effective. This kills both his SideB and Up-B for realz. And then sets up into one of your own powerful hits offstage.

Oh and just know that he really likes spamming Dash Attack. I mean just know that. Hopefully you'll find a way to punish it.
 

furiousduffmanx

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holy ****ing **** i have never seen such interesting matches like this on youtube lol.
Hylian once told me to up through his dash attack, never really tried stuff with him because i dont play diddys. As for taking diddy out of his up-b i would prefer using fairs or bairs since they seem to stay out longer. well fair for sure, dont know about turtle
That first kill on the first match deserves to be on a combo vid
 

Mr. Escalator

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I think this matchup is close to even, really. Obviously he forces you to play much differently, but that isn't necessarily an issue.
 

Rajam

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Besides Rainbow Cruise ( which is very likely Diddy will ban ), which other stages work against Diddy? Which is the best neutral against Diddy, Battlefield? Is Platform camping any good? ( Like in Battlefield or the moving platform in Smashville )
 

Mr. Escalator

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Norfair is VERY good as well as Rainbow Cruise. They may be about equal in terms of usefulness in facing Diddy Kong. I also find Brinstar to be a solid choice against Diddy, if Norfair is unallowed as a stage (which it really shouldn't be; it's quite fair).
 

A2ZOMG

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Diddy Kongs claim Norfair is one of their better stages. You tell me why that is. =P
 

Mr. Escalator

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I'm skeptical Diddy Kong can put up a fight against G&W there nearly as well as he can anywhere else. I just don't see how it would help him AT ALL in this matchup.

edit: I briefly checked up on their section, and I see nobody claiming Norfair is good. In their discussion against G&W and Wario they explicitly say not to fight them on it :p
 

A2ZOMG

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Eh, it's just like a looooooong time ago I did remember seeing a topic by I think ADHD saying why he thought Norfair was a really good stage for Diddy.

But anyhow, I'd probably be more inclined to think G&W benefits more from that stage.
 

Anauel

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Diddy has a hard time killing you. You should have no problem living well into the 150's. Also, as Zac shows in the vids, you need to learn to nair his recovery (like in the first kill, which is in his combo vid).
 

_OraNoS_

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It wasn't ADHD, it was AlphaZealot. He posted that thread because people kept taking him there and he managed to have a very high winning percentage there anyway. His strategy focused largely around getting an early lead (specifically in stock) and controlling the bottom platform and forcing his opponent to approach because they were losing and controlling the stage in other ways.

I doubt Norfair should be a stage to avoid in this matchup, except against players (like AZ) who feel comfortable on the stage. If you're worried about combating Diddy on Norfair, just review the discussion from the thread and prepare mentally to counter any tactics suggested.

[Link] (discussion has died down, so try to avoid bumping this topic)
 

DireVulcan

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For me, someone who knows just a bit or two about fighting Diddy (i'm still 5-0 against NL in tourney, but he's a great player, no hate) i've realized that it's boiled down to something this simple.

Stay. In. The. Air.

That applies to both characters. If you can, remain in the air with retreating Bair/Dairs. SAVE YOUR FAIR. This is almost a must for most matches, but especially here because Diddy's squirmy style and projectile assaults create a difficult time landing a smash

OR keep him in the air, always Uthrow from grab and play that sweet symphony of a trap that is your Uair/Nair reset game.

Master glide toss if you can..these will be your openings for smash finishes.
 

Midnight Shadows

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Stay. In. The. Air.

OR keep him in the air, Uthrow from grab and play that sweet symphony of a trap that is your Uair/Nair reset game.

Master glide toss if you can..these will be your openings for smash finishes.
I agree with the parts that I quoted. Your disjoints are friggin amazing in this matchup because they outrange just about everything Diddy can do in the air.

Don't always uthrow though or you'll get predictable, try fthrowing or dthrowing once in a while to throw them off.

Also, the ground is safe if you can get control over his nanners because once again, disjoints save the day. Just look out for his Fsmash.

Sorry for the bump too if this information is too redundant or unneccessary.
 

UTDZac

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That footstool gimmick combo isn't viable. It's just not good.
Not saying that you are right or wrong, but how do you know this? I've heard here and there that Diddy cannot escape this; I haven't tested it myself however. And if it's not viable because it's hard to setup, that's not entirely true. Glide tossing a banana and hitting Diddy allows you to set this up.

If anyone has time to test this out (looks for gimr) that would be awesome. It would also be nice to know if it was possible to do on other stages, like Smashville or Battlefield (maybe by falling through the platform).
 

Magus-Cie

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Something to try: if you get a nanner and do not want to use it, do not throw it off the stage as Diddy can just spawn another. Instead, throw it to the other edge and keep Diddy away from it, this way he is down a banana.
 

Lightning Tiger

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Something to try: if you get a nanner and do not want to use it, do not throw it off the stage as Diddy can just spawn another. Instead, throw it to the other edge and keep Diddy away from it, this way he is down a banana.
Won't it just disappear after like 20 seconds?
 

ADHD

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Are you serious lol? We can't kill gnw until 160-170? HE AIN'T SNAKE OR DDD. Uptilt kills him at a lower percent than anyone else except maybe jigglypuff.
 

PentaSalia

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by your logic,you can say the same about MK too but he's always living until outrageous percentages

a good game and watch can live to around 130ish each stock
if you really wanna camp/plank(like you should in this MU), he can reach 160 too
it's very doable

baka
 

ADHD

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by your logic,you can say the same about MK too but he's always living until outrageous percentages

a good game and watch can live to around 130ish each stock
if you really wanna camp/plank(like you should in this MU), he can reach 160 too
it's very doable

baka
Okay I get your point, but he was referring to our literal kill power not being able to kill him until 160-170.
 

Today

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I really enjoy the Diddy Matchup. I get a lot of Diddy practice and there are a handful of Diddies around here.

I always like counterpicking Diddy to Delfino. My favorite Diddy CP stage if they ban RC.
Up-B is your friend. If they hit you from afar with a banana or if you think they are going to toss a banana up-B. Honestly, Up-B most of the time and you're good because you're in the air and bananas are on the ground. I wish I had videos so I'll try and get some some time. But yeah! Plus, you can also attack from the air and a lot of times the Diddy's get hit by it. If they are waiting for you to come back and get hit by a banana Up-B. When they banana toss they are one banana less so attack because they are going to go for their banana once they know it missed. XP! Hrm! I'll really have to post videos. I do agree with it being hard. GnW once he tripes and keeps tripping it's so bad. TT__TTv So one mistake can kind of mess you up. But don't let that keep you down! You just can't auto pilot when you're playing a Diddy.
 

PentaSalia

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i wish i could get in more diddy practice like you do xD.
The only diddy i face here occasionally in tourney matches is ADHD. Sometimes i do alright and the matches are somewhat close but sometimes he just ***** me :/. I should definitely work on my approaches lol. Though I've realized that SH nair is a great approach against diddy and as you said,up and B alot:p. I also realized platform camping doesn't work that well.

Once you get in,you can get in a good amount of damage and we can kill him around 100% with our smashes but diddy can't kill us till around 120+ if you DI his dsmash and fsmash(maybe).
 

Rajam

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I'd say just move and jump a lot, without doing stupid random attacks (key and smash attacks specially) and Up+B a lot. I's also use jab if Diddy is in my face running and dashing... and also try to zone a little and camp in the borders
 

UTDZac

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Wanted to throw in a useful tip for getting better against diddy.

When you practice with your friends or at smashfests, turn bananas on Medium for your matches. This way, you don't have to have Diddy's to practice with but you'll still get the needed experience to beat them. Beating Diddy is all about learning how to control bananas. Picking them up is really hard, even for me. The more you practice the better you'll be at picking up bananas.
 

Splice

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The hard part is getting your friends to agree to that lol xP

Zac i admire your Diddy Kong MU skill so much <3
I need lessonssss
 
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