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Matchup Thread Export: Falco

UTDZac

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Matchup Thread Export Directory
:metaknight: :snake: :wario: :falco: :diddy: :dedede: :marth: :olimar: :popo: :toonlink:


FALCO



DIFFICULTY: EVEN - 55:45

Quick Tips
  • Down-smash after down-throw? YES
  • Bucket anything? Blaster Lasers (Does 25%, Kills at 65%). Bthrow/Uthrow Lasters (Does 18%, Kills somewhere over 100%).
  • Falco's jab hits on frame 2 so UpB Out-of-Shield anytime you are near Falco on the ground to avoid being grabbed.
  • G&W's Upsmash and Fsmash (facing either direction) will outprioritize Falco's SideB.


Videos
  • N/A


General Matchup
  • Falco's largest assets are in his chaingrab and follow ups from that, and his very controlling laser game. He also has a solid edgeguard game, along with a very high priority reflector.
  • Aside from the lasers and reflector, his range and priority are pretty run of the mill. You will find that in most situations you will outrange/prioritze falco.
  • His best kill moves are his fsmash, upsmash, bair, and dsmash. These moves don't have any particular set ups other than boosted upsmashes, so the usage of these moves might be seen from far away.
  • His combos are usually in the form of grabs, a grab at 0% will lead to a good 50 damage assuming your not near the edge, and even then a reverse boost grab would nullify that problem. Dash attacks to upsmashes are pretty deadly and lasers can stun you to get hit by other moves if he's close.
  • Falco's edge guarding usually takes the form of him trying to either spike you or sneak a strong back air in, both are quite deadly. Chaingrab to spike won't kill you (your up b goes too far) but will certainly put you in a bad situation, and the bair won't outrange you, but is quite fast and can kill early when fresh.
  • To edgeguard falco, throw a bair out when you think a forward b is coming, or try to predict where he will land and smash. If he has to up b, light hits from fairs work very well to drop his height along with nairs.
  • GW's combos work pretty well against falco, he falls fast which is very nice for nair chains, and his aerial movment is only average which makes him quite susceptible to up air chains. Also, dthrow to dsmash works very nicely if they don't tech.


Basic Strategies
  • If the falco laser spams a lot, you know what to do, stand and bucket. When spamming, they usually throw two lasers out, both of which can be caught when on the ground I believe. Also, if you duck, he can't hit you with a laser unless its from the ledge.
  • If you want to avoid the chaingrab, the best advice i can give you is to use your range well enough to avoid getting grabbed. When in the grab just don't panic, because he can't spike you and kill you, you can always recover. If he dash attacks to upsmash at the end try to smash di the dash attack to jump out of the upsmash and save yourself some damage. If he spikes you make sure to tech.
  • I don't see this too often from any falco's, but he does have a guaranteed laser lock combo on gw. At low percents he can footstool you out of a dthrow and then land on you with a spike. He will then immediately start lasering you because you've been stunned too long. Certainly something to look out for.
  • If they try to use the reflector to beat your range, remember that it has a crazy amount of cooldown, and he's really only safe if he hits you with it, otherwise note that a free smash is ensured.
  • Laser baits (for your bucket) are a trick some falco's use to get free smashes in, if you think this might be the case either only bucket at low percents or when your far away. If you do fill your bucket, dthrow and tech chase is amazing because the bucket comes out so fast and has a lot of range.
  • Don't get grabbed!


Stages
  • Rainbow cruise, frigate, delfino, etc work well against his terrible recovery.
  • Avoid jungle japes (forward b tricks) and final d (lots of laser room).


Frame Data
  • Neutral B: 12 (ground shot) or 10 (air shot)
  • Side B: 17
  • Up B: 21
  • Down B: 4
  • Fsmash: 16
  • Dsmash: 7
  • Usmash: 8
  • Ftilt: 6
  • Dtilt: 7
  • Utilt: 4, 12
  • Nair: 3
  • Fair: 6
  • Bair: 4
  • Uair: 10
  • Dair: 5
  • Jab: 2, 10
  • Dash Attack: 4
  • Standing Grab: 6
  • Dash Grab: 11
  • Pivot Grab: 9
 

A2ZOMG

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Vs Falco, let him spam lasers and take a few hits from them. Better to take like 15% from laser camping than to take 50% from D-throw. Alternatively, just stand around idly on platforms until he hits you.

Duck under lasers too.
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
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a good setup Falco has for killing is SHDL or SHL, and take advantage of the stun for a normal or hyphen upsmash, so beware of lasers when close to Falco

Also a good idea is running away from Falco, and wait for the lasers to bucket them. You can switch between running away waiting for the lasers and running away and coming back with a good spaced bair. Ducking helps a lot if the Falco goes agressive with lasers, and dtilt works against Illusion ( dtilt works very good in general; you can also dtilt, which sends Falco a little forwards and upwards, and procceed to short hop and release a full-charged bucket, though usually releasing the bucket works better from a dthrow or tech-chased dthrow )
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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sifting thru these, i notice the "D SMASH AFTER D THROW?" thing.

the answer should be no. to everyone. that doesn't work anymore. its called teching. if they don't know how to do it, then you've already won. It shouldn't even be brought up while discussing any match up.
 

UTDZac

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sifting thru these, i notice the "D SMASH AFTER D THROW?" thing.

the answer should be no. to everyone. that doesn't work anymore. its called teching. if they don't know how to do it, then you've already won. It shouldn't even be brought up while discussing any match up.
I'm on the top platform of Brinstar standing in the middle. I grab DDD. I want to dthrow DDD. I know that if he techs it, he will get hit by dsmash, but if he doesn't then he'll escape damage free.

Now replace DDD with Falco. Since I know that dsmash connects after dthrow on Falco, I can guarantee extra damage/KO with a dsmash follow up.

See why it's still important? Also, I find that some people intentionally don't tech (Dojo does this to me a lot). If they only techroll, which theoretically is the only safe option away from dsmash, then reading them becomes as easy as a 50/50 chance.
 

Mr.-0

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I'm new to GaW and I have a q: how do you buket the lasers off of his throws?
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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I'm on the top platform of Brinstar standing in the middle. I grab DDD. I want to dthrow DDD. I know that if he techs it, he will get hit by dsmash, but if he doesn't then he'll escape damage free.

Now replace DDD with Falco. Since I know that dsmash connects after dthrow on Falco, I can guarantee extra damage/KO with a dsmash follow up.

See why it's still important? Also, I find that some people intentionally don't tech (Dojo does this to me a lot). If they only techroll, which theoretically is the only safe option away from dsmash, then reading them becomes as easy as a 50/50 chance.
because grabbing d3 on the top platform of brinstar should ever happen.

i get what you're saying, i guess.

It might be spacies in general. But I know for a fact wolf's techroll is unpunishable.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Does he have to Down-B to not get hit? Because if so, you can predict and punish that. If he spotdodges he gets owned by DA.
...?

his techroll is far enough so that even a "hyphen smash" i think its called, the dashed up smash, won't hit.

then there are characters, like marth, who can up-b after teching, so you can't do anything to them either.
 

A2ZOMG

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...?

his techroll is far enough so that even a "hyphen smash" i think its called, the dashed up smash, won't hit.
YOu don't techchase Up-smash out of techrolls 90% of the time. Either you grab, F-air, or DA. Are you telling me that he cannot be hit by those attacks on techroll? If so, how large is the window? I would assume the window for such a thing would be very small, requiring him to Down-B if that were the case.

then there are characters, like marth, who can up-b after teching, so you can't do anything to them either.
If it's Marth, predict the Up-B, then punish. Marth doesn't like Up-Bing against DDD's D-throw for a reason.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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YOu don't techchase Up-smash out of techrolls 90% of the time. Either you grab, F-air, or DA. Are you telling me that he cannot be hit by those attacks on techroll? If so, how large is the window? I would assume the window for such a thing would be very small, requiring him to Down-B if that were the case.

If it's Marth, predict the Up-B, then punish. Marth doesn't like Up-Bing against DDD's D-throw for a reason.
I'll look into the wolf thing. I'm prety sure fair is an option if timed right.

A good Marth will tech, and see what you do. If G&W isn't in his shield already, the marth will up-b. If G&W IS in his sheild, the Marth rolls/jumps/whatevers away, nothing happens.

I thought people realized how not that good dthrow is awhile ago...
 

UTDZac

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I thought people realized how not that good dthrow is awhile ago...
Dthrow is always good. Are you telling me you'd rather uthrow/bthrow/fthrow a Marth in the middle of a stage? Not to argue or anything, just saying that I think dthrow still has its uses and shouldn't be overlooked so easily just because people can tech it. Mindgames son ;)
 

Mr. Escalator

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Actually, I would Uthrow Marth most times, despite being in the middle of a presumably flat stage. I would definitely Uthrow him on something like Lylat and YI. Dthrow is no doubt a great throw despite being able to tech, but some characters you really want above you. Namely Snake and Marth.

JKBUK, Dthrow has always been good. It was over hyped early on, which may be what you are referring to, but it's still been a solid move on most characters. Just not a couple like Snake, who has an nonpunishable tech roll and can't be hit immediately out of the throw by things like Dthrow. Even his normal roll is difficult to tech chase.

This being said, in your last video versus Snake, you dthrow him 2/3 times :p
 

A2ZOMG

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D-throw is good. Say in the middle of the match you get a grab. Do a pummel, D-throw, techchase regrab, two pummels, U-throw. This simple string does about 20%, and you just went half the way necessary to refreshing a KO move (it takes 10 different hits to refresh a move).

D-throw is G&W's best bet for landing a "guaranteed" consecutive hit at mid-high percents. I find that it's a good way to help me work around stale moves.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Dthrow is always good. Are you telling me you'd rather uthrow/bthrow/fthrow a Marth in the middle of a stage? Not to argue or anything, just saying that I think dthrow still has its uses and shouldn't be overlooked so easily just because people can tech it. Mindgames son ;)

Yes. Actually, I'd MUCH rather throw Marth above me, lol.


Actually, I would Uthrow Marth most times, despite being in the middle of a presumably flat stage.
yup.

JKBUK, Dthrow has always been good. It was over hyped early on, which may be what you are referring to, but it's still been a solid move on most characters. Just not a couple like Snake, who has an nonpunishable tech roll and can't be hit immediately out of the throw by things like Dthrow. Even his normal roll is difficult to tech chase.

This being said, in your last video versus Snake, you dthrow him 2/3 times :p
I don't pretend to not have flaws =P If we all did exactly as eachother said, every G&W across the US would be hitting judge's left and right.

And I deff do not pretend to know the snake match up. Its my worst match up. Period. I've started to use dedede specifically for that match up.

D-throw is good. Say in the middle of the match you get a grab. Do a pummel, D-throw, techchase regrab, two pummels, U-throw. This simple string does about 20%, and you just went half the way necessary to refreshing a KO move (it takes 10 different hits to refresh a move).

D-throw is G&W's best bet for landing a "guaranteed" consecutive hit at mid-high percents. I find that it's a good way to help me work around stale moves.
I promise you,and if NoJ was anywhere around he'd probly back me up on this, 9/10 times, you will NOT techchase to regrab anyone around here. Everyone up here knows the G&W matchup like the back of their hand.

I'd love to see UTD come up here. You should come up for MI vs the World (if it ever happens.) I don't doubt that you wouldn't kick some ***, you certainly would, but your opinion of G&W would change.
 

Hylian

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'd love to see UTD come up here. You should come up for MI vs the World (if it ever happens.) I don't doubt that you wouldn't kick some ***, you certainly would, but your opinion of G&W would change.
Um, I've played like everyone in MI and people in Texas certainly know the match-up just as well if not better.. Zac's opinions wouldn't change considering how well people know the match-up here. Pretty much every single one of our 15 ranked players have a ton of experience playing either me or Zac. And considering how different we play they pretty much are familiar with every single little thing they can do against us.

Don't be so quick to write off other's opinions JKBUK. I know that's what it seems like I'm doing now, but who have you played from Texas? I've played nearly every single top player in MI so I can throw my opinion out there with some sort of weight lol.

It just bugs me that you said his opinion of GW would change when you haven't even played people from texas..that's just pure bias on your part haha.
 

Rajam

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I don't know why, but i find that throwing random smashes against Falco doesn't work; you usually end eating lasers, grabs, and even Falco's smashes. Maybe this is why the Falco matchup is more even that it should be, because random smashes is somewhat an important part of how G&W KOs
 

UTDZac

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It annoys me how many people in Texas, especially the Dallas area (where I'm from), know the G&W matchup. It makes it really hard for me to do well considering all my close friends know my tricks and combos. G&W is pretty predictable. Once people figure him out and get a lot of experience playing against him, they feel comfortable with the matchup.

I don't doubt that the MI people know the G&W matchup because of NoJ (and other G&Ws). I got to play Panda's snake at Genesis in a lot of friendlies (ok they weren't friendlies, it was a pie money match) and he got wrecked the first 4 games we played. <3 Panda, you still won the pie. I didn't get to play Judge in singles, but we did meet in doubles in tournament. It was fun playing his MK. I've also had the pleasure of playing Lain's DDD at Whobo, he's a smart player. Never did get to play Anther though, he was too busy for friendlies.

I really want to make a trip up to MI and play in a big tournament there. It's my last area of the nation I haven't been to.

@Actual matchup discussion: Ive heard rumors that if G&W has a full bucket and Falco starts chaingrabbing you, you can bucket to get out. Is this true? Bucket comes out frame 2 if full.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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@hylian - that may be the case, idk. It just, almost everything everyone talks about here has already been used by NoJ and I, and eventually gotten past by everyone up here. Theres no trick to G&W up here anymore. He is what he is.


*about MI players and coming to MI*
@Actual matchup discussion: Ive heard rumors that if G&W has a full bucket and Falco starts chaingrabbing you, you can bucket to get out. Is this true? Bucket comes out frame 2 if full.
Everyone up here is awesome. I love playing Anther. *pssst, CP pirate ship, anther doesn't pay attention to bombs.* I friendly Lain nearly every time I see him. I've actually never played Panda (despite how much I see him in tournies) I've never actually gotten to legitly friendly Judge (hardly anyone has) He's either drunk or sleeping all the time, lmao. NoJ, Omni, Ankoku, Mikey Lenetia, they're all amazing. You really should try to come up for it, it'd be the best time to do so. MI is hardly ever around, they all go elsewhere.

And thats a good question. If I had a Wii, I'd test it. Someone figure it out.
 

DireVulcan

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I find the only true problem I have in this matchup is avoiding being countered/interrupted by his extremely annoying jab.

Other than that, good clucks.
 

Mr.-0

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It annoys me how many people in Texas, especially the Dallas area (where I'm from), know the G&W matchup. It makes it really hard for me to do well considering all my close friends know my tricks and combos. G&W is pretty predictable. Once people figure him out and get a lot of experience playing against him, they feel comfortable with the matchup.

I don't doubt that the MI people know the G&W matchup because of NoJ (and other G&Ws). I got to play Panda's snake at Genesis in a lot of friendlies (ok they weren't friendlies, it was a pie money match) and he got wrecked the first 4 games we played. <3 Panda, you still won the pie. I didn't get to play Judge in singles, but we did meet in doubles in tournament. It was fun playing his MK. I've also had the pleasure of playing Lain's DDD at Whobo, he's a smart player. Never did get to play Anther though, he was too busy for friendlies.

I really want to make a trip up to MI and play in a big tournament there. It's my last area of the nation I haven't been to.

@Actual matchup discussion: Ive heard rumors that if G&W has a full bucket and Falco starts chaingrabbing you, you can bucket to get out. Is this true? Bucket comes out frame 2 if full.

Michigan has that many good smashers? wow, I didn't know. with M2K in teh midwest and all of those people ( like you and hylian ) in texas, midwest rock lol. Sadly, in SoCal there's not really any GaW, and there's no good smashers in OC. but in melee, ken used to live like 20 minutes away from me. The westminister mall rocks. Wow, i'm really Away from teh topic...
 

Hylian

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Michigan has that many good smashers? wow, I didn't know. with M2K in teh midwest and all of those people ( like you and hylian ) in texas, midwest rock lol. Sadly, in SoCal there's not really any GaW, and there's no good smashers in OC. but in melee, ken used to live like 20 minutes away from me. The westminister mall rocks. Wow, i'm really Away from teh topic...
Um..Texas is NOT midwest lawl >_>.
 

kaak

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Just a single trick

bucket the lasers because this will falco scared of and if he cg you van release it because perfect frame cg on gaw is kinda hard and the bucket come's out on frame 2!

i say this match up is 6:4 for gaw
 

Motel Vacaville of the West

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Just a single trick

bucket the lasers because this will falco scared of and if he cg you van release it because perfect frame cg on gaw is kinda hard and the bucket come's out on frame 2!

i say this match up is 6:4 for gaw
But that's what most Falco mains want you to do. Bucket the the Lasers, take advantage of the lag (in close), and hit you with a DACUS.

I usually just Crouch the entire time and D-Tilt, and if they Side-B into me, I usually Shield-Grab if I anticipate it right.

Also, I can only see myself only playing this match-up defensively imo.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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the only time i tend to bucket is off the ledge, so that people won't bother trying to punish when they risk dying.

works really well against luigi.

But of course, with falcos spike in the picture, that may not be such a good idea.
 

KirbyIRL

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I wouldn't try the bucket out of chain-grab since his regrab might catch you a frame early, then you lose that bucket you worked so hard to get and another kill option that you don't have normally. I'd just suggest spamming up-b to get out of it since it's safer.

I agree with playing campy in this matchup since you can just sit there ducking while they do their laser shenanigans and when they try to approach with anything besides reflector you can d-tilt them away.
 

Neb

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If your going to camp using a crouch, stay at the end of the map (beside the ledge) and have an attack equipped for when he approaches. The stage positioning weakens his jab-game, phantasm, shortens the CG, and can limit the utility of his laser. Suppress the reflector with punishment oos.

I like to use oil as a spacing/punishing tool, or something like a dragon punch if he ever gets too close to me. When you knock him away, pressure him with a flurry of chef projectiles then follow into strings before he can get back on his feet. Never challenge him nose-to-nose, if you ever feel threatened, grasp the ledge, upb away or retreat a bair, he has little options against this. Around the edge, try and drive him off the stage with a fair, dashA, f/bthrow (etc), or set-up a juggle trap.
 

TheHebrewHammer

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Sorry if i'm posting hella late, but I really think this matchup should be 50/50 or stay as 55/45, I play sk92 all the time since we live in vegas and to me if you just laser camp all day you can't really do anything except bucket. Not even that is the smart choice.
 

toobusytocare

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Dthrow is always good. Are you telling me you'd rather uthrow/bthrow/fthrow a Marth in the middle of a stage? Not to argue or anything, just saying that I think dthrow still has its uses and shouldn't be overlooked so easily just because people can tech it. Mindgames son ;)
I know this is late but...
I'd uthrow marth occasionally just as a mixup and to get them above me


GnW's uthrow is not bad

EDIT: Yeah... I'm really late lol
 
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