• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Matchup Thread Export: Toon Link

UTDZac

▲▲▲▲▲
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
6,646
Location
Judgment Count: 856
Matchup Thread Export Directory
:metaknight: :snake: :wario: :falco: :diddy: :dedede: :marth: :olimar: :popo: :toonlink:


TOON LINK



DIFFICULTY: HARD - 40:60

Quick Tips
  • Down-smash after down-throw? NO (only after 40-50%, someone test this)
  • Bucket anything? NO
  • Toon Link's uair outprioritizes G&W's dair most/all of the time. TL's uair also has a deceivingly long hitbox, don't get baited.
  • Toon Link's zair will beat all of your smash attacks. If you notice Toon Link using this a lot, try using fair or dair to kill him.


Videos


General Matchup
  • Toon link has an exceptional projectile game, utilizing arrows, bombs, and boomerangs to get in on GW's range and priority. All of the projectiles are unbucketable.
  • Toon link has a fair amount of priority on some of his attacks, namely his dair and upair. You will find the upair consistently beating your dair, which is one of the main ways GW approaches from the air.
  • Toon Link has an exceptional amount of ways to kill GW. Dsmash and fsmash are strong moves that have particular uses (either good range or speed). Upsmash is the most deadly, allowing toon link to run in quickly and pull out his upsmash, giving this move good range and speed. This move will kill GW quite early, so watch out for it. Up air, when fresh will also kill surprisingly quick.
  • Toon Link's recovery is potentially one of the hardest to gimp in the game. Because he is such a floaty character, he is able to float below the stage very far, use a double jump and then use his up b (with a good priority) to cover incredible distances. This recovery path is the hardest for GW to punish.
  • Other than projectile spamming, and the very risky dair off the stage, toon link is nearly unable to edgeguard GW.
  • Toon Link has an exceptional combo game, making use of his multiple bair chains, grapple setups, projectiles, and uptilts that can rack up quite a bit of damage.
  • GW has no particular problem comboing Toon Link aside from needing to watch out for the occasional high priority aerial.


Basic Strategies
  • The best method to beat TL's projectiles are to learn which moves will cancel out projectiles. Dtilt and Bair are the best at canceling most projectiles, even bombs if spaced correctly.
  • Most of gw's approaching attacks (fair, bair, etc) and defensive attacks (dtilt) will be able to out range TL's approaches or defenses.
  • To avoid getting hit by tl's exceptional smashes and kill moves, learn to optimize your spacing. If you can avoid riskily throwing out dairs (gets countered by an up air) and keep your spacing very tight, you shouldn't have too much trouble avoiding the kill moves. If you get hit by the first part of the fsmash or dsmash I believe it is possible to avoid the second hit by smash di'ing the first straight up and then jumping out.
  • Some ways to edgeguard toon link are to learn to edgehog at the right times. If you can keep your invincibility frames as he moves by you, you can punish him by ledgehopping an up air (if the spacing is right), a key as he lands on the ground (pop up for a nair possibly), or a nair (good combo starter). Other options would be to get very aggressive with a fair off the stage or to try to cut through his up b with a dair.
  • To avoid the back air chains against tl, make sure to di away every time.
  • Learn to use the up air well, as it will slow down the dair (allowing room for you to punish tl) and it will usually open up a free smash if you can get under his up b.


Stages
  • Rainbow Cruise works well as you can maneuver the stage much better than tl and avoid his projectiles quite easily.
  • Avoid big open stages like FD. The more platforms, the better.


Frame Data
  • Neutral B: 18
  • Side B: 27
  • Up B: 11-53
  • Down B: N/A
  • Fsmash: 15, 27
  • Dsmash: 9 (front), 17 (back)
  • Usmash: 11
  • Ftilt: 10
  • Dtilt: 9
  • Utilt: 8
  • Nair: 6 (front), 13 (back)
  • Fair: 14
  • Bair: 6
  • Uair: 11
  • Dair: 12
  • Jab: 6, 12, 18
  • Dash Attack: 9
  • Standing Grab: 12 (lasts 5 frames)
  • Dash Grab: 14 (lasts 5 frames)
  • Pivot Grab: 15 (lasts 5 frames)
  • Zair: 11
 

DireVulcan

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
1,310
Location
Queens, N.Y.
Just a few of my concurrences and objections here. If you find yourself getting your DAIR countered by his Uair..you are being much too obvious with it..I still consider it a legitimate approach vs him, but not one to be spammed.

Running then shielding works great, also running dodges seem to work well for me if I want to make an attempt at getting inside..even though his dodge is rather clunky.

If he's coming back to the stage..I have two things I do. One of them is waiting til the very last second to grab the ledge to force him to fly over and then punish (as Zac mentions), but I like to use Nair instead of Uair here. Also, a neat trick that works if you have good timing is going down there and, in sync with his recovery, up B towards the ledge to send him way overboard than he intended. Might give you some time to get back on and launch a stronger punish.
 

lou4222

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
1,001
Location
Springfild/Columbus OH
I get to play Quivo (one of the best TLs) on a regular basis. The one thing ive learned in this matchup is Bair is dominant. Whenever TL doesnt have a bomb in his hand approach with turtle. Your Bair goes through arrows and boomarang. I know that TL has bombs a majority of the time, but be patient. TL cannot kill you easily. GW should live to 150-160 easily. Spam back air and avoid bombs and you should be ok. Svae your forward air for killing and watch out for TLs up air up tilt and forward smash.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
This matchup ain't 6/4 in his favor. I don't get what you're on. TL's projectile and spacing game is annoying, but nothing compared to Marth's defensive game.

And he's also a lot easier to edgeguard, and his KO moves are 1000x more telegraphed.
 

Anauel

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
26
I agree with A2ZOMG here. TL has a very annoying game, which takes some getting used to, but his KO moves (besides Uair, but that should be avoidable) aren't really a very big threat. You also outprioritize him 90% of the time.

There's no way TL is comparable to MK or Diddy (2 matchups I find harder and are rated 60:40).
 

Mr. Escalator

G&W Guru
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,103
Location
Hudson, NH
NNID
MrEscalator
It's always been my opinion that G&W has the advantage in the matchup, and my tournament experience (while not impressive) hasn't lead me to believe otherwise; I've faced quite a few TL's out of my state, yet in my region, and it's always felt like G&W has the advantage. Even looking from theorycraft's angle, I don't think TL has this 6:4 advantage.

Obviously I'm speaking from a more radical viewpoint, but I'm sure most G&Ws, though not all, would at least concede this matchup isn't as hard as MK or Diddy at all. Even is probably a better ratio.
 

lou4222

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
1,001
Location
Springfild/Columbus OH
Marth, Snake, Diddy, and MK are definitely all tougher, but when you are playing a really good TL this matchup is really tough. I would consider this matchup fairly close to even.
 

llamapaste

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
430
Is there a mistake in UTD Zac's post? He says the matchup is 60-40 us, and then says it's hard? Wouldn't it get the easy label like on other matchups? Unless he thinks it's 40-60. I suggest 55-45 but that's my opinion. Toon Link can camp you hard but you're a better character overall.
 

NatP

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
846
Location
Portugal
Well, I admit that I don't have that much experience in this matchup, but I think tl is a really hard matchup. Atleast for me. I generally have projectiles flying at me from every direction, consistently racking up damage and then getting fsmashed and uair'd for the kill. I personally hate this matchup.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Is there a mistake in UTD Zac's post? He says the matchup is 60-40 us, and then says it's hard? Wouldn't it get the easy label like on other matchups? Unless he thinks it's 40-60. I suggest 55-45 but that's my opinion. Toon Link can camp you hard but you're a better character overall.
Oh huh, dang, his post is confusing. O_o

Also edgeguarding him is easy. Just D-air him out of his Up-B if he dares to use it. Or catch his bomb that he threw upwards, throw it back at him, and combo him into a F-air.
 

Vinnie

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
4,073
Location
Long Island, NY!
Sometimes when they try to recover from below. I grab onto the edge, and as he is rising I drop off -> fair stage spike him. It's useful on some characters like TL, Snake, and I THINK Marth.
 

furiousduffmanx

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
1,037
Location
El Paso, TX
I usually do the same as what PGN just stated.
All i know is that i once got ***** by a double toon link team. Jerm and quivo. I just had to change my character it was way too hard or i need more exp on this matchup
 

Hydruz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
61
Definitely 50/50 or 45/55 Tink, His projectile game is super annoying but once GNW gets a hold of him he doesn't have a lot of options. space your bair so he cant di it to a dair, dont be predictable with dair since both his uair and usmash beat it. and hes fairly easy to edgegaurd.
 

Iofsauron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
231
Location
Thunder Bluff, or Franklin NC
I think it's 50/50. GnW is really capable of edgeguarding TL and has several really good CP's against him.
I disagree. Toon Link has a huge advantage over G&W, since TL has overall more range than G&W. Discussing earlier, TL uair and actually his other aerial moves actually destroy G&W, considering most G&W's I play usually play their aerial game
 

Splice

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
5,125
Location
AUS
IMO you have to be aggressive (not stupid, btw) in this matchup.

You simply cannot, CANNOT defend against his projectiles, he has the ability to force you to get hit eventually. IMO GaWs ground game can be utilised more in this MU since TL doesn't have as many tools as say MK, Marth,Diddy or Snake to stop it, so that may work, but SH Zair is still a pain in the ***.

I don't think Bair is good for approaching at all in this MU unless TL is actually in a bad position.
Grab, Nair, Dtilt, or a smart Fair can probably create the opening you want.

If you were to plank after you got a % lead, remember not to doubt TL : He isn't Link. If he sets himself up nicely with bombs, he can venture an airial and and boomerang offstage and then make it back. I think you could plank TL though, it seems like it could work, it'd just be difficult imo. You definitely cannot camp him onstage though, and I think what you'd want to aim for is some fast zoning and pressuring against the Toon Link to get his stocks of nice and fast. Remember Toon Link has a lot of trouble killing, especially with his Fsmash and Dsmash being escapable with good SDI.

Toon Link can plank pretty well too, I've seen some cool tether tricks on the edge, but again, I think camping you with bombs and arrows and boomerangs and ZAIR on stage would work more effectively for him.

Zair ***** a lot of GaWs options in a lot of cases it's pretty sad.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
You can technically spotdodge TL's grab after B-airing his shield as I recall. I suggest learning what his grab animation looks like so you can do it on reaction.

If you catch bombs and powershield projectiles on reaction, he really doesn't have much on you anyway (besides the odd U-air and U-smash beating D-air from below). You can play a better spacing game and you have more damaging juggles and edgeguards.

As for the Z-air, try ducking -> powershield. Should be fairly easy to do if he's deliberately spacing it to hit you at this point, otherwise it's not exactly safe on block.
 
Top Bottom