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New Desynch. The fastest most effective one yet?*Video up!!!! First post.* Anothervid

Hylian

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMSfwHiCjmI
KRD's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VamFiDMlQoA&feature=sub

Ok guys well I was just messing around and think I've stumbled onto the fastest desynch yet(faster then pivot desynch and SND) and on top of that..It's ****ing useful.

This needs testing though! I only messed around with it for 5-10 minutes after I thought of it but I started doing it fairly consistently.

First thing you need to know how to do:

You know how you can reverse any B move out of a run? For example with Marth if you are in a running animation(not dash) and you press B and then move the control stick the opposite direction you were running(sort of like a b-reversal, but on the ground) then you will change momentum and do a shield breaker the opposite direction you were running. You can do this with every character. Now go practice it.

Learned it? Are you sure?

Good.

Now lets apply this to the Ice Climbers.

First of all, this is just a really useful tactic in itself that I don't see people use. I don't even use it but I plan to start. This grounded b-reversal works amazingly well with ice blocks and squalls. Try it out you will see right away how it is useful. With the IB you get a nice boost in the opposite direction you were running and will probably scare the **** out of your opponent if they were chasing you. This also lets you get a full momentum switch immediately into your squall which people are going to have a hard time reacting to. Looks like we can start making use of the IC's slow running speed :).

Now for the desynch!

Taking what we know from above, I thought it kind of sucked that when I do the grounded B-reversal it uses both climbers to shoot the IB's so I messed around with it until I got only one of them to do it.

Basically if you dash one direction and do this right as you go into your run only nana will fire an ice block, but both of you will move the opposite direction and keep that same momentum. The timing is strict, but I only messed with it for 5-10 minutes and I got it pretty consistently.

So basically what I'm telling you is that as you run away from someone you have an INSTANT desynch that will turn you around with momentum AND have an attack covering you. It literally combos straight into grab if the IB hits because you are on top of the IB with popo free to do anything. I haven't tried yet but this will obviously work with blizzard as well though the inputs might be a bit harder. So you can instantly turn around and have nana covering you with blizzard for a free grab on anyone that it hits.

This desynch is amazingly fast, I'm pretty positive it's the fastest and most useful one so far. It will get you grabs. COMBOs into grabs. A REAL grab set-up.

Hopefully someone can get a video up if you don't understand something I said. I will try and answer questions though.

If you are trying to imagine what it looks like, then think of how far an IC dash is. Imagine IC's dashing away, then sliding back facing you with only nana doing a move that entire distance, popo at your command. It's pretty amazing :p.

 

choknater

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hm can you buffer the b-reversed ice block as soon as u get into dash animation or is it really strict timing?

i dont play brawl much but i cant believe i didnt discover this earlier, thanks hylian

cuz i do fully charged b reverse needles all the time lol
 

ch33s3

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It DEFINITELY works, and is amazing. I kind of realized this existed because of turning around a squall, but never thought it to be very useful as I never considered Ice Blocks out of it. Great post. I'll play around with it a bit later see if I can find anything else with it.

Hylian wins.

EDIT: If someone gets a chance before I do, see if you can reverse a blizzard with momentum. If you can bounce a Blizzard out of this, you can probably cover half a stage and be standing next to someone desynched with a blizzard in their face and Popo ready to grab.
 

EverAlert

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... Wow.

This... sounds pretty awesome. o_O

*insta-practice*
 

ch33s3

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This is really hard technically. Geez. I can get it like 1/10 times. but you get some awesome distance out of it.

EDIT: Okay, I can definitely get both of them to reverse the iceblock (works out of walk too, you get almost the same distance) but I can't seem to find the timing for just Nana to block. Help me out here.
 

KRDsonic

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Wow, I didn't realize that there was a way to make only one of them reverse their ice block while the other is free :o Sounds awesome. Now if only I didn't only fight DK every day... then I might get to see the usefullness myself D: Darn that ground range!

As far as normal reversing Ice Blocks on the ground, is that anymore usefull that just dashing away and doing a short hop reverse Ice Block? I normally do the short hop one for some reason and it's effective, if the ground one is better then that'll be heaven to me.
 

Funen1

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I was trying to do the pivot desynch last night, and I think I might have already seen an effect similar to what Hylian is describing (though it was at the end of their dash and obviously not as useful as Hylian's method). I must try this out, Blizzard especially. Mix this in with other desynch methods (to avoid being predictable, of course), and it sounds like the best surprise attack the ICs have.
 

momochuu

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Ack. I'm a visual learner. Hylian get a replay or something and send it to someone here. =X
 

Teh Future

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hmm I think I have it. The button input is dashleft> ice block >dashright. Or vice versa. It looks wierd... I think if you can manage to blizzard out of it then it will be very useful, but it seems really tough and I cant even pivot blizzard consistently so Im having doubts if I would be able to do this.

I would like a video too :D send a replay to KDR or something...
 

Hylian

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I found this at like 4 in the morning lol and I could do it pretty well. Then again I was a really technical melee player so >_>.


This IS possible to do consistently. If you are having troubles with just the grounded B-reversal IB's(which yes KRD are MUCH better and faster then the SH reversals and you get more distance) then yeah you are going to have trouble with this. I can do those 100% without practice lol. The actual desynch is pretty hard.

And yeah you have to input it at the very end of the dash as you start running.

Um..I will try and get a video up >_>.
 
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The problem I'm having with this is trying to get it to have nana to do as you described. Everytime I get it to work, Nana does the Ice Block in the direction I was running while Popo gets the full out pivot. So no covering attack. I've managed to get the covering attack to work like 2-3 times in the last 4 minutes.

Just wondering. Since you can ground reverse a Blizzard, can you by any chance get this desnych to work with blizzard instead of ice block? Blizzard seems a much better covering attack compared to iceblock.
 

Sieguest

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hmmm....So I have the b-reversal down....
but when I try to do the desync 85% of the time I turn around and Nana is doing in a dash animation while I'm just in a run...

does this mean I should hit b earlier or later?
 

Prawn

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This looks VERY VERY interesting. Will be trying when I get home.
 

momochuu

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The best part about this is that this proves that there's so much stuff about ICs that we haven't found yet. I wonder what's gonna be found next. :3
 

Hylian

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So I was talking with swordgard on aim and started testing this more.


THIS IS EVEN BETTER THEN WE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. You can apply this desynch to sooo many situations.

I guess I'll just post the aim convo lol.

swordgard (8:02:08 PM): yo i was looking into that new desynch of yours
swordgard (8:02:19 PM): its pretty awesome, but it didnt make any sense to me at first
Hylian88 (8:02:32 PM): haha
swordgard (8:02:35 PM): what i mean is
Hylian88 (8:02:35 PM): Did you figure it out?
swordgard (8:02:39 PM): no i meant
swordgard (8:02:45 PM): in terms of tecnical part of the game
swordgard (8:02:51 PM): why would nana be the one doing the ice block
swordgard (8:02:54 PM): and not popo
Hylian88 (8:02:57 PM): I don't know that confused me too
Hylian88 (8:03:02 PM): But it's better that wau
Hylian88 (8:03:02 PM): lol
swordgard (8:03:03 PM): and i finally found why
Hylian88 (8:03:04 PM): way*
Hylian88 (8:03:07 PM): Why?
swordgard (8:03:11 PM): i tried figuring it out
swordgard (8:04:18 PM): when you press b, popo has to still be in dash animation, while due to the actual delay of 8 frames, by the time you do it nana isnt into running animation anymore
Hylian88 (8:04:34 PM): You mean popo has to be in the running animation..
swordgard (8:04:38 PM): yeah
swordgard (8:04:45 PM): like hes borderline
swordgard (8:04:45 PM): before it
swordgard (8:04:49 PM): stops
Hylian88 (8:04:59 PM): Yeah thats what I though. The timing is where popo enters the run animation and nana is still in the dash
Hylian88 (8:05:15 PM): But why does popo not shoot an iceblock?
swordgard (8:05:57 PM): ok look,
Popo, just before his run animation starts cannot do an ice block
B input, he does nothing
Nana waits 8 frame, finally enters run animation then the b input kicks in
Hylian88 (8:06:19 PM): But he still gets the sliding motion from the grounded b-reversal :p
swordgard (8:06:28 PM): yeah, i think thats just weird
swordgard (8:06:35 PM): but it would explain why the timing is so strict
Hylian88 (8:06:38 PM): Yeah
swordgard (8:06:54 PM): nana needs to be within 8 frames of starting her run animation
swordgard (8:06:54 PM): and popo not have started it
Hylian88 (8:07:15 PM): I could do it with about 50% consistancy after 5 mins of practice
swordgard (8:07:21 PM): good stuff
Hylian88 (8:07:22 PM): I'm sure I can get it down
swordgard (8:07:27 PM): ahah same
Hylian88 (8:07:32 PM): It's so fast
swordgard (8:07:33 PM): i mean, im **** as technical player
swordgard (8:07:44 PM): but im willing to spend entire nights on this
Hylian88 (8:07:51 PM): haha
swordgard (8:07:58 PM): wouldnt be the first time i do something like that XD
swordgard (8:08:08 PM): remember that "supergrab" desynch?
Hylian88 (8:08:15 PM): Yes, I learned the **** out of that
Hylian88 (8:08:21 PM): I never really find a chance to use it well
Hylian88 (8:08:22 PM): lol
swordgard (8:08:24 PM): same
swordgard (8:08:28 PM): took me 4 hours
swordgard (8:08:30 PM): but i got it down
Hylian88 (8:08:33 PM): Nice
Hylian88 (8:08:40 PM): I think this one is more practicle
swordgard (8:08:53 PM): i had something similar to what your using
swordgard (8:09:05 PM): which was run away shield pivot ice block into nana run grab
Hylian88 (8:09:05 PM): Even if you mess up it's not bad you just shoot two ice blocks instead
swordgard (8:09:09 PM): but yours is faster
Hylian88 (8:09:19 PM): I think mine is the fastest desynch.
Hylian88 (8:09:21 PM): It's instant
swordgard (8:09:29 PM): well, pivot ice block
swordgard (8:09:31 PM): is fastest
swordgard (8:09:38 PM): if your already facing the wrong way
Hylian88 (8:09:41 PM): But it cuts your momentum
swordgard (8:09:44 PM): yeah
Hylian88 (8:09:45 PM): This keeps your momentum
swordgard (8:09:47 PM): thats the problem
swordgard (8:10:00 PM): otherwise, i found an easy way to get popo alone on the ledge
swordgard (8:10:09 PM): now i need to find a way to get nana alone there >.<
Hylian88 (8:10:18 PM): Easy
Hylian88 (8:10:25 PM): Pivot IB
Hylian88 (8:10:26 PM): run off
Hylian88 (8:10:27 PM): lol
Hylian88 (8:10:36 PM): She will grab it
swordgard (8:11:12 PM): kinda slow, i meant froma run
Hylian88 (8:11:20 PM): Oh
swordgard (8:11:35 PM): im working on something right now, cant find the exact timing yet though
swordgard (8:11:49 PM): sometimes when i do my pivot out of shield, only nana does ice block instead of popo
swordgard (8:11:54 PM): i cant figure out why yet
swordgard (8:12:22 PM): because if you run towards the ledge, shield pivot and ice block with popo who does it, popo keeps his momentum and falls alone
Hylian88 (8:12:28 PM): I still haven't tried pivoting OOS yet
Hylian88 (8:12:28 PM): lol
swordgard (8:12:31 PM): but i cant get it to be nana, but sometimes it does it
swordgard (8:12:52 PM): its rather usefull, you can do a desynched blizz out of run using double pivot out of shield
Hylian88 (8:13:00 PM): hmm
swordgard (8:13:00 PM): double pivot out of shield is surprisingly easy
swordgard (8:13:28 PM): because if you buffer the run fast enough on the first side, it does a turn around, and you tap again the other way it does it again
swordgard (8:13:37 PM): then you down b and popo blizzs alone
Hylian88 (8:13:52 PM): I need to practice my desynch with blizzard
Hylian88 (8:13:55 PM): It will be nasty
swordgard (8:13:59 PM): ahah XD
Hylian88 (8:14:05 PM): Instant turn around wall
swordgard (8:15:06 PM): yeah, you can do it
swordgard (8:15:08 PM): with blizz
Hylian88 (8:15:13 PM): I'm working on alternating moves so that IC's will be attacking something as many frames as possible while moving
swordgard (8:15:20 PM): XD
Hylian88 (8:15:36 PM): Like nair ftilt nair ftilt ftilt jab nair or something
Hylian88 (8:15:37 PM): lol
swordgard (8:15:44 PM): XD
swordgard (8:15:56 PM): *inserts grab in the lineup*
Hylian88 (8:15:59 PM): yeah haha
Hylian88 (8:16:04 PM): Falling nair combos into grab
Hylian88 (8:16:05 PM): !!
swordgard (8:16:09 PM): XD
swordgard (8:16:14 PM): i like doing
swordgard (8:16:23 PM): up air to nair(cause people then airdodge) to side b
swordgard (8:16:33 PM): the nair pushes em towards the ground with the weak hit
swordgard (8:16:47 PM): people then tend to airdodge again, which has delay between the shield and airdodge
swordgard (8:16:49 PM): so side b hits
Hylian88 (8:16:56 PM): I try to get grabs off nair
swordgard (8:17:15 PM): yeah but its not near the ground, its at the height of the up air XD
swordgard (8:17:25 PM): you cant grab in the air.....YET
Hylian88 (8:17:29 PM): Oh, I do fullhopped uair to FF nair
Hylian88 (8:17:34 PM): If they airdodge the uair nair hits
Hylian88 (8:17:37 PM): and sometimes get me grabs
swordgard (8:17:41 PM): true
swordgard (8:17:47 PM): now to find a way to do grabs in the air
swordgard (8:17:49 PM): XD
Hylian88 (8:17:53 PM): haha working on it!
swordgard (8:18:08 PM): i can totally see that: Metaknights dair camping.... wait he got GRABBED!?!??!
Hylian88 (8:18:12 PM): LOL
Hylian88 (8:18:20 PM): I've started doing something that works pretty well
Hylian88 (8:18:35 PM): It's just shieldashing forwards, then dashing backwards out of that and pivot grabbing
swordgard (8:18:41 PM): yeah
Hylian88 (8:18:47 PM): because a lot of people just sheilddash back and fourth and the pivot grab range is awesome
swordgard (8:18:47 PM): people tend to run in to grab you
Hylian88 (8:18:51 PM): yeah
swordgard (8:18:59 PM): but you pivot grab em
Hylian88 (8:19:12 PM): Well it grabs MK out of fair as well
Hylian88 (8:19:13 PM): haha
Hylian88 (8:19:17 PM): And martth
Hylian88 (8:19:50 PM): I like just doing it a few times then a desynched IB and run at them and watch them freak out
Hylian88 (8:19:51 PM): lol
Hylian88 (8:20:00 PM): Usually a free uair
swordgard (8:20:23 PM): ahah XD
Hylian88 (8:20:29 PM): And people need to learn to bait with nana better :p
swordgard (8:20:36 PM): nanas my meat shield vs MK
swordgard (8:20:42 PM): at low % MK
swordgard (8:20:44 PM): is like
swordgard (8:20:45 PM): kill nana
swordgard (8:20:50 PM): im like yeah ok free grab for me
Hylian88 (8:20:58 PM): lol if you watch my matches with mike haze I get grabs and kills because I just leave nana somewhere and he attacks her
swordgard (8:21:03 PM): yeah
swordgard (8:21:15 PM): i take a look at pretty much every ice climbers video i can find XD
Hylian88 (8:21:21 PM): haha me too
swordgard (8:21:22 PM): i wish canada wasnt so bad : (
Hylian88 (8:21:32 PM): Ally is good!
swordgard (8:21:34 PM): i mean, we have like a couple of pros
Hylian88 (8:21:37 PM): Yeah
swordgard (8:21:42 PM): but yeah thats pretty much it
swordgard (8:21:50 PM): GTA actually kept *****ing at me cause i told em
Hylian88 (8:21:51 PM): Ohh my desynch is useful against snake
Hylian88 (8:22:05 PM): You do it while they throw a nade at you
Hylian88 (8:22:13 PM): and you can catch the nade while an IB is going toward them
Hylian88 (8:22:16 PM): and pressure well
swordgard (8:22:19 PM): XD
swordgard (8:22:20 PM): ****
swordgard (8:22:30 PM): wait, is there any way to not get them to turn around
swordgard (8:22:35 PM): aka only nana does the ice block
Hylian88 (8:22:44 PM): Not doing the sliding motion?
swordgard (8:22:45 PM): but like
Hylian88 (8:22:45 PM): Hmm
swordgard (8:22:46 PM): yeah
swordgard (8:22:50 PM): just try to do it
Hylian88 (8:22:53 PM): You might be able to do it with the same input
Hylian88 (8:23:01 PM): just no grounded b-reversal
swordgard (8:23:13 PM): i suck at it for now, try doing it please, i think i may just had a revelation XD
Hylian88 (8:23:35 PM): oh boy haha brb I'll try it really quick
swordgard (8:23:39 PM): k
Hylian88 (8:26:51 PM): OMG
Hylian88 (8:26:58 PM): First of all
Hylian88 (8:27:08 PM): I tried just doing my normal one and I can do it fairly consistantly
Hylian88 (8:27:11 PM): with no practice
Hylian88 (8:27:19 PM): Then I tried doing it with blizzard.
Hylian88 (8:27:27 PM): It was a lot harder but I got one and HOLY crap is it useful
Hylian88 (8:27:41 PM): Secondly, YES you can do this moving forwards without the b-reversal
Hylian88 (8:27:47 PM): Instant blizzard or iceblock
Hylian88 (8:27:53 PM): Just sort of foxtrot it
swordgard (8:27:57 PM): not just that
Hylian88 (8:27:59 PM): AND
swordgard (8:28:03 PM): nana can now grab the ledge alone
Hylian88 (8:28:10 PM): I'm not done!
Hylian88 (8:28:11 PM): haha
Hylian88 (8:28:12 PM): AND
swordgard (8:28:12 PM): you run towards the edge, shield redo that desynchs
Hylian88 (8:28:31 PM): You can do the b-reveral on the ground and make her do the desynch and fire the IB backwards
swordgard (8:28:35 PM): (use b on bstick for blizz)
swordgard (8:28:44 PM): wow wtf XD
Hylian88 (8:28:45 PM): I don't b stick
Hylian88 (8:28:49 PM): I know!
Hylian88 (8:28:52 PM): You can do ANYTHING out of this
swordgard (8:29:01 PM): XD
swordgard (8:29:03 PM): but like
swordgard (8:29:07 PM): if you run towards the ledge
swordgard (8:29:11 PM): then shield at the right place
swordgard (8:29:22 PM): run do the desynch and go forward with it with nana ice blocking
swordgard (8:29:28 PM): nana will fall due to her momentum
swordgard (8:29:35 PM): and cause your not holding forward, popo wont
swordgard (8:29:44 PM): thats it, you broke ice climbers
Hylian88 (8:30:48 PM):
Hylian88 (8:30:52 PM): Oh god
Hylian88 (8:30:54 PM): This is amazing
Hylian88 (8:30:57 PM): So many options
Hylian88 (8:31:00 PM): So many situations
swordgard (8:31:12 PM): yup, im learning to do this non stop lol



So basically:

This desynch works because of the lag between the climbers when they enter the run animation. Nana takes longer to do it, and since popo will not do a b move in his running animations save squall you can buffer one for nana and she will do it as soon as she enters her running animation 8 frames later. So you can do the grounded b-reversal and get my desynch, you can keep moving forward, you can do..anything.
 

Hylian

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I'm really excited. I can't wait to play people and test this out in matches.
 

KRDsonic

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I was trying this out in friendlies against jS today, I wasn't that consistent since I was learning it mid-match, but it gives LOTS of possibilities.

Seems like every time we're starting to run out of useful things for Ice Climbers, Hylian discovers something else that's ****.
 

Funen1

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I fail at testing this. I guess I'm not entirely sure what Hylian's new method looks like, and I only have a so-so grasp of the mechanics. But hot dog, anything out of it? I always knew the ICs still had potential with desynching, but this takes the cake.
 

Dev2000

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Dayuuumn hylian this is epic
keep finding stuff like this
as KRD said once we run out of useful stuff you find something new
i'm gonna learn this RIGHT NOW ;D
 
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