Differences in Stun Time With Charge Blast?

Undrdog · Aug 17, 2009

I'm curious what all effects the hit-stun with the Charge Blast? I've noticed that depending on what the opponent is doing when hit by the Charge Blast the time stuck in stun changes.

So yeah, what's the deal? I've never bothered studying it myself, so if someone else knows already please let me know. I'd rather have a discussion over the matter then have to go into testing myself.

ZitchX · Aug 17, 2009

I really think this topic is interesting... And I would love to help find out... But the main thing i want to know is... I usually can get a Uncharged Shot -> Dash Grab to work but i wanna know is it easily avoided? If so any other follow ups to UCS?
Zx

Undrdog · Aug 17, 2009

ZitchX said:
I really think this topic is interesting... And I would love to help find out... But the main thing i want to know is... I usually can get a Uncharged Shot -> Dash Grab to work but i wanna know is it easily avoided? If so any other follow ups to UCS?
Zx

That seems risky to me. If you're following up a UCS with a dashing grab, I assume you have to buffer, or at the very least do it very quickly. In doing so you leave yourself open against skilled opponents. If I'm understanding what you're doing, a last second powershield against your UCS leaves your opponent open to easily dodge your grab. Which for Samus can be painful.

This is assuming I'm not misunderstanding how you go about doing this.

RaigothDagon · Aug 18, 2009

So in this case, I think you would be right. However, if the opponent is in the middle of an attack, such as the dash attack, in the case that the ucs isnt cancelled out by their attack, I think the dash grab follow up would work.

Edit: Just went browsing in Ice Climber forums, saw something really useful looking posted up here.
I didnt know this before, and I'm thinking it can make Samus' charge shot a little more scary. Anyone want to share their opinions or suggestions?

Rhyme · Aug 18, 2009

I can help with this. If Samus' charge shot collides with part of the environment and an opponent simultaneously (ShyGuy on Yoshi's Island (Brawl), for example) then there should be a hair more lag.

One thing that I know for certain: four or five characters in this game (Samus, Zero Suit, Mario, Luigi that I know of) suffer additional hitlag frames from electric attacks (try shooting them with Falco's laser).

HTH.

Hive · Aug 18, 2009

yea I thought she got stunned more from falcos lasers- someone pointed it out to me while we were playing, but I never got to comfirm it

I really hate that bird.

ZitchX · Aug 18, 2009

Can someone like break down Samus's Charge Shots? like the UCS and the FCS? and intermediate versions of the charged shot...

I just played a Mario and i hit him with a Intermediate Charged Shot and it seemed to have stunned him for longer than i imagined... I was pretty far away and i still got to do my Dash Grab... idk what he was doing but at the time it looked like he was trying to block after my Charged Shot... Can someone test which shot has alot of stun?

Zx

Smash G 0 D · Aug 18, 2009

I prefer using the UCS for stun because you can use them on whim. I played a Mario on ladder today on Halberd and used UCS while the beam on the ship was aiming at him in hopes he'd get hit. He yelled at me after the game about spamming though -.-

Generally I use it after a Homing Missile cancel -> FCS in case they dodge it. Then they're stunned and I can reorient myself and Zair or grab.

Side note: WHAT HAPPENED TO SWEET POLLY D:?

Serris · Aug 18, 2009

Smash G 0 D said:
Side note: WHAT HAPPENED TO SWEET POLLY D:?

She died.

You killed her.

Anyway, I use the uncharged shot more often than the charged shot. S-S-S-SERRIS COMBO!

Homing missile > uncharged shot > dash grab.

Works more often than it should. Srsly.

ZitchX · Aug 18, 2009

Im seriously Using the middle of the charge shot now... Idk why tho but its a perfect balance to the Power and the surprise stun :D...

1. Its as good as the UCS but without instantaneousness <- Huh? lol
2. Its definitely not the power of the FCS but it does pack quite a bit of knock back
3. It has surprising Stun...
4. I LOVE IT :D

Zx

Undrdog · Aug 19, 2009

Smash G 0 D said:
Side note: WHAT HAPPENED TO SWEET POLLY D:?

She kept getting infractions... v_v And after that I'm skiddish on getting them to spell my name properly. lol

Anyway, check out my one combo vid. "Lithium Soldier Part 2" At 5:13 sauna stays pinned in the hit stun for WAY too long. We tried to emulate the scenario and were only successful when hitting him out of a (Samus) Dash Attack. Any ideas why? Should baiting opponents into moves that cause huge hit stun be melded into Samus' metagame? Assuming we can crack why this additional hit stun occurs that is.

Hive · Aug 19, 2009

Uncharged charge shot is.. .cute lol it does like, what, 3% damage?? ^^

jk Its still pretty fun for setups and stuff though, when I feel like playing around with uncharged charge shots sometimes I like using a shorthop shot, double jump shot and shot before landing... its kinda a fun pattern.

Holding out for the full charged shot and using missiles in the UCS's place is a lot better though imo

Rhyme · Aug 19, 2009

Undrdog said:
At 5:13 sauna stays pinned in the hit stun for WAY too long.

Maybe the hitbox collision frames are added to the hitstun frames? Unless you're opponent is transparent, I doubt that this could be done on purpose vs. most of the cast.

Undrdog · Aug 20, 2009

Rhyme said:
Maybe the hitbox collision frames are added to the hitstun frames? Unless you're opponent is transparent, I doubt that this could be done on purpose vs. most of the cast.

With Samus I'm not sure if baiting is feasible. I know with Pit it's quite easy to make your opponent think you're open and not paying attention. Baiting a Dash Attack out of Samus is something that I'm able to do to sauna on occasion and he knows how I fight very well. Probably better then I do myself most of the time. However I don't know as much about Samus' metagame, or at the very least haven't familiarized myself with her enough to be thinking this deeply outside of a match.

Rhyme · Aug 20, 2009

Most people I've played seem to think that my character is open all the time, so getting them to attack me is pretty easy. The problem is that, if I'm understanding this correctly, the hitboxes must collide for this technique to work. I know when I'm about to be attacked, but I rarely know which move my opponent will use.

Undrdog · Aug 21, 2009

Well with proper spacing you can determine what attacks are likely. With Samus for instance, from outside roll range (Just outside Samus' F-Tilt) she has a few options that are more viable then most. The most likely one is a SHZair. Next would most likely be a Dash Attack. Then a SHFair. And lastly a Shield Dash Jab.

Of course a LOT of it comes down to pattern recognition which really only truly comes into play at the highest of levels. I've personally never seen anyone do it better then M2K. Watch some of his SSBM matches to see what I mean. It isn't as clear (to me anyways) in Brawl.

Differences in Stun Time With Charge Blast?

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