#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Inter galactic super-spammerheroine, low tier... easy beat right? Can she outcamp us? Can she outspace us? (references ftw)
[random motivational]
discuss!
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discuss!
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Match-up discussion week 32: Samus
- Thread starter #HBC | ZoZo
- Start date
I'd say 65:35 our favour.Teran on Samus Boards said:
AvoiD
Smash Lord
Actually, I'd say at least 60-40 our favor. I played Samus with my n00b Falco like a week ago, and we did some friendlies, I didn't know the matchup to well, but I ended up winning 2, outta 4, hehe.
IMO, Falco can outcamp Samus, reflector his projectiles, but enough time to get hit by a spaced Zair. Do NOT try to edgeguard a smart Samus, they will gimp you at 10%.
Ftilt works wonders in this matchup, Jab, not so much as they can Up B outta it I'm pretty sure.
Lasers lasers lasers. Wrap most of Samus' approaches and options, as they usually tend to SH when using there forward specials, or going for the zair. I'd recommend mixing up your game as you go along to, cuz if the Samus see's that your just camping, he'll find a way around it, vice-versa with playing aggresive.
Gotta be smart with your kills moves as well, its actually pretty hard landing one then it seems.
2centsdaw.
IMO, Falco can outcamp Samus, reflector his projectiles, but enough time to get hit by a spaced Zair. Do NOT try to edgeguard a smart Samus, they will gimp you at 10%.
Ftilt works wonders in this matchup, Jab, not so much as they can Up B outta it I'm pretty sure.
Lasers lasers lasers. Wrap most of Samus' approaches and options, as they usually tend to SH when using there forward specials, or going for the zair. I'd recommend mixing up your game as you go along to, cuz if the Samus see's that your just camping, he'll find a way around it, vice-versa with playing aggresive.
Gotta be smart with your kills moves as well, its actually pretty hard landing one then it seems.
2centsdaw.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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- Aug 6, 2008
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Samus is completely shut down by Falco in my opinion. We can answer anything she can throw at us. Zair spacing requires SHs. With powershielding this is not much of a threat. Phantasm below the SH will mess them up and get you inside her defences.
Lasers also mess up the firing of projectiles and the charging of them. Reflector can help bet any lose end projectiles that come your way. Be careful about your reflecting though. You can get baited in various ways with it.
Close quarters should be our favor. Your jabs, ftilt and being able to grab her OoS are better than her options. Being only able to really attack with no grab option means we can shield without much fear of being punished for it. And the grab is laggy enough one should be able to spot dodge it as you see it. Avoid using any laggy attacks though, her UpB out of shield is ****.
Samu's main strength seems to rely upon spacing the opponent efficently and comboing them. Of which Samus is really good at set-ups and linking attacks together. Must of her combos though seem to be escapeable with DIing up and trying to jump out. It's worked on all of the combos I've been caught in xD
I want to say that the match-up is 70:30, but 65:35 seems more reasonable.
I forget, which way is it best to DI the UpB? I know that it's possible for Falco to DI out of it more easily than say DK can because of how small Falco is. UpB really isn't that big of a deal for us if we can avoid the last hit which gives most knockback. If we DI out of that last hit than we can punish UpBs ending lag. So therefore I feel that AAA is still viable in this match-up.
Lasers also mess up the firing of projectiles and the charging of them. Reflector can help bet any lose end projectiles that come your way. Be careful about your reflecting though. You can get baited in various ways with it.
Close quarters should be our favor. Your jabs, ftilt and being able to grab her OoS are better than her options. Being only able to really attack with no grab option means we can shield without much fear of being punished for it. And the grab is laggy enough one should be able to spot dodge it as you see it. Avoid using any laggy attacks though, her UpB out of shield is ****.
Samu's main strength seems to rely upon spacing the opponent efficently and comboing them. Of which Samus is really good at set-ups and linking attacks together. Must of her combos though seem to be escapeable with DIing up and trying to jump out. It's worked on all of the combos I've been caught in xD
I want to say that the match-up is 70:30, but 65:35 seems more reasonable.
I forget, which way is it best to DI the UpB? I know that it's possible for Falco to DI out of it more easily than say DK can because of how small Falco is. UpB really isn't that big of a deal for us if we can avoid the last hit which gives most knockback. If we DI out of that last hit than we can punish UpBs ending lag. So therefore I feel that AAA is still viable in this match-up.
Rhyme
Smash Lord
70:30, Falco's favor. Not much to say about this matchup.
Samus is one of Brawl's better campers, but she will still get out-camped if Falco knows how to use overB well. You're not allowed to upB in this matchup, but then Falco shouldn't be upBing anyway. All of Samus' OoS options can be worked around once you learn what they are. Falco can rack up damage on Samus with ease but will have trouble landing a kill move (even DAC Usmash) on a good Samus. Falco can shut down any one of Samus' normal spacing tools by reacting correctly.
Lol. Honestly, I'm not even sure why you guys bother to discuss this matchup. >.> Don't you have more pressing matters at hand?
Samus is one of Brawl's better campers, but she will still get out-camped if Falco knows how to use overB well. You're not allowed to upB in this matchup, but then Falco shouldn't be upBing anyway. All of Samus' OoS options can be worked around once you learn what they are. Falco can rack up damage on Samus with ease but will have trouble landing a kill move (even DAC Usmash) on a good Samus. Falco can shut down any one of Samus' normal spacing tools by reacting correctly.
Lol. Honestly, I'm not even sure why you guys bother to discuss this matchup. >.> Don't you have more pressing matters at hand?
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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No, not really.
This being the 32nd match-up you should be able to guess we already went through the higher and mid tier MUs already.
Rhyme
Smash Lord
Oh, well then you guys are excused provided none of you goes out and loses to a Samus. Not even for fun.
Lasers are huge factor in this matchup. If you guys notice, every time Samus or ZSS gets hit with a laser, the whole screen shakes as though there was an earthquake.
Laser and jab-grab pressure should keep Samus on her toes. She is quite heavy so don't stale those kill moves.
Laser and jab-grab pressure should keep Samus on her toes. She is quite heavy so don't stale those kill moves.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
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^ yes. certain characters are stunned longer when hit by electric attacks. samus's height and necessity to approach with a short hop for missile or zair is absolutely foiled by shdl, unless the samus has a really good airdodge-to-zair timing.
for falco to win.. basically just control the center of the stage and laser camp. At lower percents you can do maybe one to two downthrows but if you overreach you will eat a buffered fastfall uair to dsmash/jab/utilt which could knock you off stage for an edgeguard samus opportunity. phantasm once samus learns how to approach and repeat.
against lasers, samus is practically forced to approach on the ground. my main training partner was a falco main (j4pu) so my whole style/ground game/philosophy behind samus is forged from the collective rage of every laser i've eaten haha. she has to perfect shield dash through everything and then read the phantasm w/ a short hop chase to any aerial other than zair haha.
she can stop phantasms with uncharged/charged shot, as well as dsmash, so be very very careful if youre thinking to approach or recover with phantasm.
on recoveries -- falco could really not try to edgeguard samus at all, and conversely, be very precise and careful when recovering against a samus. simply put, if you're off stage with falco, you should be dead. if you up b, you will get gimped by either a spike or retether. if you try to illusion, you will eat zair, uncharged shot, nair, or get spiked. try to recover high and never try to recover below the stage or horizontal to it. if you can, save your second jump, but im sure you know this.
if it helps at all, i have some vids in winners and grand finals vs a falco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-d6FGP6smE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXrLCKD8Fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdwGG1gJfU
etc.
hope that helps, but you pretty much won at the character select screen :\
EDIT: oh yeah, for you falcos. There's a certain distance that if samus does a sh flip backwards to throw out a zair, you can just dacus for the KO. Again, this is why Samus should be hesitant to jump near falco, in fear of either eating shdl or usmash..
for falco to win.. basically just control the center of the stage and laser camp. At lower percents you can do maybe one to two downthrows but if you overreach you will eat a buffered fastfall uair to dsmash/jab/utilt which could knock you off stage for an edgeguard samus opportunity. phantasm once samus learns how to approach and repeat.
against lasers, samus is practically forced to approach on the ground. my main training partner was a falco main (j4pu) so my whole style/ground game/philosophy behind samus is forged from the collective rage of every laser i've eaten haha. she has to perfect shield dash through everything and then read the phantasm w/ a short hop chase to any aerial other than zair haha.
she can stop phantasms with uncharged/charged shot, as well as dsmash, so be very very careful if youre thinking to approach or recover with phantasm.
on recoveries -- falco could really not try to edgeguard samus at all, and conversely, be very precise and careful when recovering against a samus. simply put, if you're off stage with falco, you should be dead. if you up b, you will get gimped by either a spike or retether. if you try to illusion, you will eat zair, uncharged shot, nair, or get spiked. try to recover high and never try to recover below the stage or horizontal to it. if you can, save your second jump, but im sure you know this.
if it helps at all, i have some vids in winners and grand finals vs a falco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-d6FGP6smE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXrLCKD8Fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdwGG1gJfU
etc.
hope that helps, but you pretty much won at the character select screen :\
EDIT: oh yeah, for you falcos. There's a certain distance that if samus does a sh flip backwards to throw out a zair, you can just dacus for the KO. Again, this is why Samus should be hesitant to jump near falco, in fear of either eating shdl or usmash..