Random platform trickery with Wave shines.

I was sick last week or so, and spent about 6 days just practicing technical consistency. About 4 days into practicing technical consistency with Fox, and Falco, I got bored, and began to "freestyle" against a level 9 Captain Falcon, and ended up coming across a few interesting, and probably known facts about the wave shine. All instances will be on any stage with platforms, and will assume both the Fox, and wave shinable character are under the platform.

Scenario 1: Fox Drill - Shines Falcon. Fox wave lands atop the platform, holding forward to fall off the edge. Fox then drill - shines again, resulting in a guaranteed combo. This is no different than the standard drill - shine infinite, but more flashy. The wave land also goes further than a normal wave dash.

Scenario 2: Fox jumps, and shines the Falcon. Fox then double jumps, and instantly wave lands onto the platform, holding forward to fall off the platform, and drill shines again. This can also be changed up by wave landing to the edge of the platform, and down smashes. This is an easier version of the first scenario. The double jump makes it much easier to wave land onto the platform.

Scenario 3: Falcon is on the platform. Fox jumps, and shines, so that the top of the shine hits Falcon. Fox wavelands. Falcon falls off the platform. Fox holds forward to fall off the platform, and either does a bair, or a drill. Bair is the best option, but drill can lead into a shine if they don't expect it, and counter.

Scenario 4: Falcon is on the platform. Fox jumps, and shines to that the top of the shine hits Falcon. Fox wavelands, and grabs Falcon. Difficult and has a small timing window.

Discuss.

Scenario 1 and 2 are almost the same thing except with a jump before them. I saw scenario 2 in Silent Wolf's combo video.

3 is kinda common too, IMO

I've never tried 4, though. I don't know if most platforms are long enough to really do this in most cases. I'm also not sure if the waveland would get you close enough to grab.

i like to call the first two "the silent wolf"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVLKgr3BEQ

wouldnt the last two not work though because after the falcon touches the ground from the shine all hitstun is eliminated and he can do anything like buffer a roll and escape.

JPOBS said:

i like to call the first two "the silent wolf"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVLKgr3BEQ

wouldnt the last two not work though because after the falcon touches the ground from the shine all hitstun is eliminated and he can do anything like buffer a roll and escape.

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I already covered this in the description. You need to reread it.

Yes, it's not a legitimate combo, but that doesn't mean it won't occasionally catch someone off guard.

Also; I assumed these tricks were previously known, but I've noticed that they all have very real, practical uses. The first day I got to play against another human, I pulled 3 of the 4 instances off against a Falcon, and a Peach. I've also been able to link different scenarios into each other, due to teams being chaotic, and my technical skill being rather consistent.

I.E. Fox Drill - Shine's peach. Fox wave lands, and drill - shines the opposite side of peach. Fox wave lands, stops it short, drops through the middle of the platform, and does a drill shine usmash. <- done in teams, on battlefield.

do the ones starting from the ground, to waveland etc actually combo though? like does the hitstun from the shine last long enough for you to waveland and fall of the platform to continue?

or are they also banking on the opponent being caught unawares. im not hating, legitimately curious.
now talking about the first two btw.

JPOBS said:

do the ones starting from the ground, to waveland etc actually combo though? like does the hitstun from the shine last long enough for you to waveland and fall of the platform to continue?

or are they also banking on the opponent being caught unawares. im not hating, legitimately curious.
now talking about the first two btw.

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Yeah. The first two legitimately combo. If you wave land, whilst holding forward, it's about the same time as doing a standard wave dash. Wave lands go longer than wave dashes, so I've managed to pull this off against Marth. The third one only works if you bair, or they don't expect the dair and try to mash out.

in situations youd dair, i prefer nair or bair

eggz cd's..call me

Those combos aren't realiable and requires you to be fast so they don't shield and/or roll away (but that's usually isn't the problem for fast foxes) the problem is how are both players spacing and if they DI the shine or not.

Don't get offended but I think those combos are kinda of old anyway.

Scenario 4 works as long as falcon doesn't fall off the platform by DIng or because he was close to the edge.

Oskurito said:

Those combos aren't realiable and requires you to be fast so they don't shield and/or roll away (but that's usually isn't the problem for fast foxes) the problem is how are both players spacing and if they DI the shine or not.

Don't get offended but I think those combos are kinda of old anyway.

Scenario 4 works as long as falcon doesn't fall off the platform by DIng or because he was close to the edge.

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I've said twice that they were probably old. You really need to read my posts more closely.

Furthermore, just about any half-decent Fox should be able to pull these off with relative ease. People are technical now, you know?

I thought I'd bring these up for discussion, since they do have some practical value.

PB&J, I got your address saved. I'll send you the full pack when its done for free ;]

Scenario 4 would be the most practical AND underused. The others allow many avenues for escape on Falcon's part. Uthrow will get you damage on him regardless of where he d.is. The other scenarios I've definitely seen done at least once in a combo video, or in a match irl. I appreciate your interest in getting creative with platforms though, Ruby. I'd say scenario 4 all dai. Foxes get on that!

Usually if they're on the platform the shine will hit them off, so you can't grab often. I like doing shine waveland-> falling upair because it often leads to better followups, but that's just me.

RaynEX said:

Scenario 4 would be the most practical AND underused. The others allow many avenues for escape on Falcon's part. Uthrow will get you damage on him regardless of where he d.is. The other scenarios I've definitely seen done at least once in a combo video, or in a match irl. I appreciate your interest in getting creative with platforms though, Ruby. I'd say scenario 4 all dai. Foxes get on that!

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After a bit of messing around in training, and against another player I've come to the conclusion that scenario 4 is guaranteed, but you have to be REALLY fast about it. The timing window to catch Falcon is pretty strict. I haven't tested it against any other character yet. I suspect that it's guaranteed against Falcon, Peach, and Sheik.

...****'s still mad hard though.